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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 63 post(s) |
Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
6
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 15:59:00 -
[871] - Quote
Mograthi wrote:CCP Omen wrote:You have some cool ideas but why do you assume the larger corporation won't tolerate you? Do people hate money all of a sudden? On a serious note, do you actually think they are more likely to disallow you? We are operating under the assumption that most PCO owners will allow "neutral" at least for the extra dough. If they indeed don't allow you, I would bet there will be wormholes that operate free for all COs for profit. At least that's what we hope. You obviously don't know the player base very well. In 0.0 (aside from old providence style areas) these things will be set so no one but blues will be able to use them. Any POCO setup by a neut or red will be summarily destroyed. Just look at how stations are configured now, we COULD allow neuts to dock for a fee but it doesn't happen so money is not an incentive to make 0.0 folks allow anyone to use the POCO. In lo sec if they are configured to allow everyone to use them, they will just become nice traps to get easy kills of haulers.
Actually after reading much of this thread I think he does know what the player base is like. I get the distinct impression that it is in fact their intention to make PI an alliance level asset but for some reason they do not want to come out and just admit it openly.
Most of the flaming back and forth on this thread have been about some risk v reward crap, which misses the whole point of many of those who do not like this. It's not a "risk" factor, it's that PI in 0.0 (and probably low sec?) will no longer be assessable to those outside of the alliances at all. As I see it (not in a tinfoil hat way) this fits in with what CCP have stated their goals are for 0.0, that whole "farms and fields" thingy they briefly mentioned, the desire to create more reasons for the big alliances to fight, the whole ABC's in wormhole mess, and they also briefly stated I believe the idea that T2 production should happen mostly in null too. This fits with that.
Now wether or not these are good things, that's a different argument, one that goes to what the nature of 0.0 ad lowsec should be (should all assets in 0.0 be alliance assets by default? Room for anyone outside of the big alliances?). Now I don't really know the answer to that, and I won't even pretend to, but thats the big gorilla everyone in the room is dancing around and it would be nice if CCP would at least stop ignoring it too and quit being so coy about it. Then maybe some actual constructive progress could be made (but probably not). |
Dominus Alterai
No Bullshit Jokers Wild.
22
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 16:08:00 -
[872] - Quote
I know I've said before (along with a few others) that I'll be selling my PI alts. Never mind that...
I've just sat down and actually crunched the numbers on projected price increases and shifts of resources. High-sec PI will still be profitable, but that's only if the PI production in low-sec takes a marked hit. This, I feel, should be an accurate prediction, as no one wants to spend more money than they would make from a planet: I don't want to have to spend 80+ million ISK for only a few days worth of PI materials before my custom's office get's popped. I'd never make back my investment. This is the way many of the people in low-sec are thinking. As the dev's said before, about 50% of the PI resources on the market come from high sec. I'm seeing that number jumping to anywhere from 80-85% of the resource market after these are implemented. One of the unaccounted changes may be that 0.0 alliances that hold sov could get interested in the investment, as they will be able to defend there occupied systems (no one will put up customs offices in unoccupied systems except maybe ninja PI people). This, however, would still be a logistical nightmare to bring PI products into high-sec areas, along with the other things they bring up to high-sec, like minerals, ships, moon products, etc.
Overall, prices for PI products in high-sec should reach a stabilized price of approximately a 50% increase. The people that live in high sec that do PI don't always do PI in high sec. Many people do PI in low-sec systems near the high-sec border because of increased rewards. take away those rewards, and no one will do PI in low-sec |
Dominus Alterai
No Bullshit Jokers Wild.
22
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 16:15:00 -
[873] - Quote
Manssell wrote:Mograthi wrote:CCP Omen wrote:You have some cool ideas but why do you assume the larger corporation won't tolerate you? Do people hate money all of a sudden? On a serious note, do you actually think they are more likely to disallow you? We are operating under the assumption that most PCO owners will allow "neutral" at least for the extra dough. If they indeed don't allow you, I would bet there will be wormholes that operate free for all COs for profit. At least that's what we hope. You obviously don't know the player base very well. In 0.0 (aside from old providence style areas) these things will be set so no one but blues will be able to use them. Any POCO setup by a neut or red will be summarily destroyed. Just look at how stations are configured now, we COULD allow neuts to dock for a fee but it doesn't happen so money is not an incentive to make 0.0 folks allow anyone to use the POCO. In lo sec if they are configured to allow everyone to use them, they will just become nice traps to get easy kills of haulers. Actually after reading much of this thread I think he does know what the player base is like. I get the distinct impression that it is in fact their intention to make PI an alliance level asset but for some reason they do not want to come out and just admit it openly. Most of the flaming back and forth on this thread have been about some risk v reward crap, which misses the whole point of many of those who do not like this. It's not a "risk" factor, it's that PI in 0.0 (and probably low sec?) will no longer be assessable to those outside of the alliances at all. As I see it (not in a tinfoil hat way) this fits in with what CCP have stated their goals are for 0.0, that whole "farms and fields" thingy they briefly mentioned, the desire to create more reasons for the big alliances to fight, the whole ABC's in wormhole mess, and they also briefly stated I believe the idea that T2 production should happen mostly in null too. This fits with that. Now wether or not these are good things, that's a different argument, one that goes to what the nature of 0.0 ad lowsec should be (should all assets in 0.0 be alliance assets by default? Room for anyone outside of the big alliances?). Now I don't really know the answer to that, and I won't even pretend to, but thats the big gorilla everyone in the room is dancing around and it would be nice if CCP would at least stop ignoring it too and quit being so coy about it. Then maybe some actual constructive progress could be made (but probably not).
They really just need to say that, BUT they won't because many of the people that play eve don't want to be in alliances or can't be for financial/play time reasons and they'd basically be telling those people to stop doing PI all together (may as well run incursions, right?)
Also, the player base is saying "NO! STOP! THIS IS A BAD IDEA! THINK IT THROUGH MORE!" This is CCP pushing their game mechanics on players that don't have time to be on 20+ hours a week. But, after all, it is their game. |
Mikron Alexarr
New Age Solutions The Laughing Men
32
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 16:18:00 -
[874] - Quote
Dominus Alterai wrote:So, I've been reading this forum since yesterday and so far, this is the TL;DR version:
-POCO in null is a decent idea, stay with it -POCO in low-sec is NOT, I repeat, NOT a good idea, as illustrated by the dozens of issues that people already brought up -Tax increase in high sec, well, no one really cares that much because prices will go up to compensate -POCO in WH: great idea if the PI stuff is transferred automatically to a station or a corp hanger on the POCO itself
I've been following as well out of concern for the economy as a whole. You don't need a degree to know that this kind of a supply shock is not what a game like eve needs right now with all of the other options out there these days. Less players = less interaction = less fun. Don't screw this up CCP. This summary is dead on. |
Dominus Alterai
No Bullshit Jokers Wild.
22
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 16:21:00 -
[875] - Quote
Mikron Alexarr wrote:Dominus Alterai wrote:So, I've been reading this forum since yesterday and so far, this is the TL;DR version:
-POCO in null is a decent idea, stay with it -POCO in low-sec is NOT, I repeat, NOT a good idea, as illustrated by the dozens of issues that people already brought up -Tax increase in high sec, well, no one really cares that much because prices will go up to compensate -POCO in WH: great idea if the PI stuff is transferred automatically to a station or a corp hanger on the POCO itself I've been following as well out of concern for the economy as a whole. You don't need a degree to know that this kind of a supply shock is not what a game like eve needs right now with all of the other options out there these days. Less players = less interaction = less fun. Don't screw this up CCP. This summary is dead on.
Perhaps I should be on the CSM. lol.
But on a more serious note, Perhaps if you keep the low-sec customs office NPC owned, but make the tax a bit higher than the high sec tax. OR you could make it so they are owned by the NPC empires that actually hold the sov, and make the tax rate based on standings (even with good standings, the tax should be higher/equal to high sec taxes) |
Rek Seven
Zandathorn Industries
11
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 16:24:00 -
[876] - Quote
Why are people assuming that low sec dwellers don't do PI?
|
Holy One
SniggWaffe
48
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 16:24:00 -
[877] - Quote
Mikron Alexarr wrote:Dominus Alterai wrote:So, I've been reading this forum since yesterday and so far, this is the TL;DR version:
-POCO in null is a decent idea, stay with it -POCO in low-sec is NOT, I repeat, NOT a good idea, as illustrated by the dozens of issues that people already brought up -Tax increase in high sec, well, no one really cares that much because prices will go up to compensate -POCO in WH: great idea if the PI stuff is transferred automatically to a station or a corp hanger on the POCO itself I've been following as well out of concern for the economy as a whole. You don't need a degree to know that this kind of a supply shock is not what a game like eve needs right now with all of the other options out there these days. Less players = less interaction = less fun. Don't screw this up CCP. This summary is dead on.
+1
Leave low sec alone. Jack up taxes 5000% for all I care, its still peanuts. POCO will not work in low sec. I will not move to high sec as it won't be worth the time/effort. I will not join a blob alliance just to play eve and I will not 'grind' pve. Ergo you are forcing a lot of people with a lot of invested time and effort out of the game, or on to grind by ripping away low sec.
PI is a casual player's 'in' to eve online. Fiscally it makes no sense as a business decision to encourage those people to quit. |
Rek Seven
Zandathorn Industries
11
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 16:26:00 -
[878] - Quote
Dominus Alterai wrote:
But on a more serious note, Perhaps if you keep the low-sec customs office NPC owned, but make the tax a bit higher than the high sec tax. OR you could make it so they are owned by the NPC empires that actually hold the sov, and make the tax rate based on standings (even with good standings, the tax should be higher/equal to high sec taxes)
Wait, what are you talking about? why would it be more expensive to do PI in low sec, and why is the idea such a bad one? |
Dominus Alterai
No Bullshit Jokers Wild.
22
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 16:31:00 -
[879] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Why are people assuming that low sec dwellers don't do PI?
No one is assuming that. We're saying that Low-sec is too dangerous/indefensible to be able to anchor POCOs on a planet and still make a profit, especially when a relativley small group of battleships can put it into reinforced, preventing you from exporting your PI to the customs office.
For those people PI ninjas, you can still launch your PI resources the old fashioned way with a command center launch. You won't be able to launch much, but you can still do PI that way. If CCP increased the cargo capacity of the command centers or even the planetary warehouses (can't remember what they are actually called), all would be well with the world of PI. |
Dominus Alterai
No Bullshit Jokers Wild.
22
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 16:34:00 -
[880] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Dominus Alterai wrote:
But on a more serious note, Perhaps if you keep the low-sec customs office NPC owned, but make the tax a bit higher than the high sec tax. OR you could make it so they are owned by the NPC empires that actually hold the sov, and make the tax rate based on standings (even with good standings, the tax should be higher/equal to high sec taxes)
Wait, what are you talking about? why would it be more expensive to do PI in low sec, and why is the idea such a bad one?
I'm trying to justify keeping the customs offices in low sec NPC owned. The rewards with doing PI in low-sec now is much greater than that of high-sec, as it should be with the risk of dying and all. If the import/export taxes are a bit higher on the low-sec NPC owned customs offices and if they stay NPC owned, people won't whine and complain as they are doing now. just trying to find a middle ground here. |
|
Holy One
SniggWaffe
48
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 16:37:00 -
[881] - Quote
Dominus Alterai wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Why are people assuming that low sec dwellers don't do PI?
No one is assuming that. We're saying that Low-sec is too dangerous/indefensible to be able to anchor POCOs on a planet and still make a profit, especially when a relativley small group of battleships can put it into reinforced, preventing you from exporting your PI to the customs office. For those people PI ninjas, you can still launch your PI resources the old fashioned way with a command center launch. You won't be able to launch much, but you can still do PI that way. If CCP increased the cargo capacity of the command centers or even the planetary warehouses (can't remember what they are actually called), all would be well with the world of PI.
This and:
1. People are doing it because its reliable. It takes a lot of time to set up supply chains for large scale PI operations, it costs a lot up front in isk, rl cash to pay for character training etc. All of the projected income is accounted for well in advance and any disruption to that supply chain results in accounts not being plexed on time and that results in lost business for ccp.
2. PI is a casual pay style. Forcing people in to the blob/sov/pos mechanic playstyle is not 'adding content' to a feature it is fundamentally changing it in to another play style. One that those people do not want or already choose to participate in/avoid in other aspects of the game.
|
gfldex
9
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 16:39:00 -
[882] - Quote
Meldan Anstian wrote:PCO's don't make economic sense. It takes 13,333 robotics units to pay for 1 PCO, at 100% tax. Thats 4444 hours of production, just turning consumer electronics and mechanical parts into robotics, not making the electronics or mechanical parts. Thats over 6 advanced industrial facilities going 24/7 for a month. I don't think there are many planets that can produce that much, month after month.
You imply that the only thing that can be launched from a planet is PI products. I somehow doubt it will stay that way. |
Dominus Alterai
No Bullshit Jokers Wild.
22
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 16:40:00 -
[883] - Quote
gfldex wrote:Meldan Anstian wrote:PCO's don't make economic sense. It takes 13,333 robotics units to pay for 1 PCO, at 100% tax. Thats 4444 hours of production, just turning consumer electronics and mechanical parts into robotics, not making the electronics or mechanical parts. Thats over 6 advanced industrial facilities going 24/7 for a month. I don't think there are many planets that can produce that much, month after month. You imply that the only thing that can be launched from a planet is PI products. I somehow doubt it will stay that way. I agree, but CCP has yet to mention any of their future plans with planets and DUST 514 in an official capacity. This is one more thing they are releasing piecemeal. I thought that they learned their lesson with the AUR market.... |
Rek Seven
Zandathorn Industries
11
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 16:45:00 -
[884] - Quote
Dominus Alterai wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Dominus Alterai wrote:
But on a more serious note, Perhaps if you keep the low-sec customs office NPC owned, but make the tax a bit higher than the high sec tax. OR you could make it so they are owned by the NPC empires that actually hold the sov, and make the tax rate based on standings (even with good standings, the tax should be higher/equal to high sec taxes)
Wait, what are you talking about? why would it be more expensive to do PI in low sec, and why is the idea such a bad one? I'm trying to justify keeping the customs offices in low sec NPC owned. The rewards with doing PI in low-sec now is much greater than that of high-sec, as it should be with the risk of dying and all. If the import/export taxes are a bit higher on the low-sec NPC owned customs offices and if they stay NPC owned, people won't whine and complain as they are doing now. just trying to find a middle ground here.
Okay to you are talking specifically about the one man band that does PI in low sec and is unable to defend a customs office if he/she wishes to anchor one...
None of us know how this new feature will effect the game but personally i don't see why a group would destroy a POCO unless they wanted to take that planet over to earn isk from the taxes, so then why would they hike the tax up or exclude people from using the POCO?
|
Innar Mong
Mong's Marauders The 0rphanage
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 16:47:00 -
[885] - Quote
The more I read folks opinions here, the more I see this change as a way to further those that hold SOV and keep down everyone who does not.
I do have an actual question for the PI Dev team; it is:
What are your specific goals with this new set of features? Has this actually been stated?
It is possible I have missed that, if so, I'm sorry and if you'd point me in the right direction I'd be grateful.
|
Dominus Alterai
No Bullshit Jokers Wild.
25
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 16:50:00 -
[886] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Dominus Alterai wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Dominus Alterai wrote:
But on a more serious note, Perhaps if you keep the low-sec customs office NPC owned, but make the tax a bit higher than the high sec tax. OR you could make it so they are owned by the NPC empires that actually hold the sov, and make the tax rate based on standings (even with good standings, the tax should be higher/equal to high sec taxes)
Wait, what are you talking about? why would it be more expensive to do PI in low sec, and why is the idea such a bad one? I'm trying to justify keeping the customs offices in low sec NPC owned. The rewards with doing PI in low-sec now is much greater than that of high-sec, as it should be with the risk of dying and all. If the import/export taxes are a bit higher on the low-sec NPC owned customs offices and if they stay NPC owned, people won't whine and complain as they are doing now. just trying to find a middle ground here. Okay to you are talking specifically about the one man band that does PI in low sec and is unable to defend a customs office if he/she wishes to anchor one... Non of us know how this new feature will effect the game but personally i don't see why a group would destroy a POCO unless they wanted to take that planet over to earn isk from the taxes, so then why would they hike the tax up or exclude people from using the POCO?
Decent point, but you are forgetting the people in eve who do things just to see if they could do them. If a group of bored pirates in battleships finds a POCO, they may decide to reinforce it just because they can. I can see these as a way to lure out defending fleets and get more fights, not just for PI reasons. |
Rek Seven
Zandathorn Industries
11
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 16:51:00 -
[887] - Quote
Holy One wrote:Dominus Alterai wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Why are people assuming that low sec dwellers don't do PI?
No one is assuming that. We're saying that Low-sec is too dangerous/indefensible to be able to anchor POCOs on a planet and still make a profit, especially when a relativley small group of battleships can put it into reinforced, preventing you from exporting your PI to the customs office. For those people PI ninjas, you can still launch your PI resources the old fashioned way with a command center launch. You won't be able to launch much, but you can still do PI that way. If CCP increased the cargo capacity of the command centers or even the planetary warehouses (can't remember what they are actually called), all would be well with the world of PI. This and: 1. People are doing it because its reliable. It takes a lot of time to set up supply chains for large scale PI operations, it costs a lot up front in isk, rl cash to pay for character training etc. All of the projected income is accounted for well in advance and any disruption to that supply chain results in accounts not being plexed on time and that results in lost business for ccp. 2. PI is a casual pay style. Forcing people in to the blob/sov/pos mechanic playstyle is not 'adding content' to a feature it is fundamentally changing it in to another play style. One that those people do not want or already choose to participate in/avoid in other aspects of the game.
Is it out of the question for these PI alts to contact the dominant force (who also own POCO) in a chosen system and say: "Hey, i would like to continue me PI operation in your system and i'm willing to pay the 10% tax. Please make me blue to your corp."?
|
pussnheels
Vintage heavy industries
118
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 16:52:00 -
[888] - Quote
44 pages in less than 48 hours i am impressed
i just repeating my opinion then
While i like the idea the way like it stands now i think will not really work ; there are some good valid points made against this in low sec
so why not instead of taxes rent custom space out for a limited time period to as many individuals you want could be done in contractform i think
or why not XXX isk/m-¦ I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Miraqu
Marquie-X Corp
10
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 16:54:00 -
[889] - Quote
Maybe CCP could implement those changes in Null and leave the rest of EvE as it currently is?
They could see how it is used and whats wrong at least. |
Dominus Alterai
No Bullshit Jokers Wild.
25
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 16:54:00 -
[890] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Holy One wrote:Dominus Alterai wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Why are people assuming that low sec dwellers don't do PI?
No one is assuming that. We're saying that Low-sec is too dangerous/indefensible to be able to anchor POCOs on a planet and still make a profit, especially when a relativley small group of battleships can put it into reinforced, preventing you from exporting your PI to the customs office. For those people PI ninjas, you can still launch your PI resources the old fashioned way with a command center launch. You won't be able to launch much, but you can still do PI that way. If CCP increased the cargo capacity of the command centers or even the planetary warehouses (can't remember what they are actually called), all would be well with the world of PI. This and: 1. People are doing it because its reliable. It takes a lot of time to set up supply chains for large scale PI operations, it costs a lot up front in isk, rl cash to pay for character training etc. All of the projected income is accounted for well in advance and any disruption to that supply chain results in accounts not being plexed on time and that results in lost business for ccp. 2. PI is a casual pay style. Forcing people in to the blob/sov/pos mechanic playstyle is not 'adding content' to a feature it is fundamentally changing it in to another play style. One that those people do not want or already choose to participate in/avoid in other aspects of the game. Is it out of the question for these PI alts to contact the dominant force (who also own POCO) in a chosen system and say: "Hey, i would like to continue me PI operation in your system and i'm willing to pay the 10% tax. Please make me blue to your corp."? Very possible, but those standings usually come with a price. Remember, nothing in life is free, and goes doubly for eve. I can see an alliance that can defend these new structures anchoring them and then charging people for standings, possible a cost of 50 million ISK or more just to get standings. That's not including the cost of actually setting up the PI or possible standing resets. |
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Ana Vyr
80
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 16:54:00 -
[891] - Quote
POCO's are gonna be griefed 24/7. Looks like using lowsec for PI is now not gonna be possible for a solo player. As it stands today, it's a fun minigame sneaking in and out of lowsec with PI goods as a solo player. Kinda like roleplaying a smuggler. Seems like the fun is over. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
58
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 16:57:00 -
[892] - Quote
I just lost a very eloquent post on this matter, and am not happy about it. So you will get a quick and dirty recap.
1: Remove the ability to set standings and restrict access to PCO's via this mechanic.
Without it the only way to restrict easy (non-rocket) access to a particular planet is via 100% tax or by blowing up any PCO's at the planet.
100% tax works for resources that you wish restricted to benefitting the corp (not the members of your corp). You would not do this if you wanted your corp mates to be able to use this planet, or for your own personal gain.
Blowing PCO's up keeps you and your corp mates from using those resources easily.
Eliminating the ability to keep people from using a PCO via standings forces more PCO's to be set with reasonable tax rates, thus making it easier for people outside of a given corp to make use of those resources (whether the owner of the PCO likes it or not).
2: Make the Sig Radius of PCU's very small.
This makes it impractical to take them out easily via capital hot drop, thus making it more difficult (or at least far less desirable) for Null Sec power block's to cyno into low sec to take them out for simple amusement.
Sub Cap use could, and would, still happen... but usually for a purpose instead of a random event.
Pirate groups would still be an issue popping PCO's in Low Sec for fun. Making the classic EVE decision of flight or fight is not a bad thing in my opinion, since these groups usually are a realistic size for many empire based corps to consider taking on... especially since the defender has the advantage of knowing exactly when and where the engagement (post reinforcement) will take place. To kill the enemy and break their toys!
It's not so much a mission statement,-áit's more like a family motto. |
Rek Seven
Zandathorn Industries
11
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 16:57:00 -
[893] - Quote
Dominus Alterai wrote: If a group of bored pirates in battleships finds a POCO, they may decide to reinforce it just because they can. I can see these as a way to lure out defending fleets and get more fights, not just for PI reasons.
You are exactly right. People will attack these POCO to provoke more fights so CCP are creating new battle fields in addition to people just fighting on stations, gates and belts.
|
Dominus Alterai
No Bullshit Jokers Wild.
25
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 16:57:00 -
[894] - Quote
Ana Vyr wrote:POCO's are gonna be griefed 24/7. Looks like using lowsec for PI is now not gonna be possible for a solo player. As it stands today, it's a fun minigame sneaking in and out of lowsec with PI goods as a solo player. Kinda like roleplaying a smuggler. Seems like the fun is over.
I'm not sure about anyone else, but I know that I'll be doing the camping. Why risk a hauler full of PI goods when you could risk a bomber and get PI goods for free, along with a nice shiny kill mail. Not to mention selling the PI gods back to them on the market in the closest station. |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
57
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 16:58:00 -
[895] - Quote
Well, at least the zero sec alliance producers will generate more profit risk free. And with all the NAPing going on in those parts of space it must be nice to finally get targets you can steamroll in low sec to get increase your own revenue.
The CSM is truly working as intended. After all, making one game style able to completely dominate all others is really adding to the sandbox. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Kassasis Dakkstromri
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
16
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 16:58:00 -
[896] - Quote
Sable Moran wrote:Dominus Alterai wrote:Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:Absolutely need a search function for POCO's - and I really hope CCP Omen you guys had the for sight to prepare that too?
Cause here's the scenario:
- Corp places Low Sec Temperate / Barren POCO(s) - Corp camps Low Sec Temperate / Barren POCO(s) - Corp waits for Indy Pilot to generate Tax/Tarif revenue - Corp kills Indy Pilot and collects Tier 4 Advanced Commodities (in addition to the tax/tariff they just got) - Corp gets much more preferred Transport Kill Mail - Corp breaks CCPs POCO system, because Corp prefers Kill Mail to tax/tariff revenue - Corp waits for next sucker
Hence a searchability function is essential! THIS OMG THIS!!! count me in btw....in a bomber, not a transport. LOL EDIT: Also, the wallet blink from the tax revenue is a dead give away that someone is using your POCO, essentially alerting people to neutral activity, creating impromptu gate camps. Pirates won't need to camp a POCO, just be in station or a safe waiting for the flashy flashy: Step 1.) pirate sees wallet flash from PI taxes. Step 2.) pirate undocks and warps to the out gate Step 3.).... Step 3.) Another corp jumps in with a bait hauler. Step 4.) Pirate corp engages Step 5.) Second corp jumps in the rest of their fleet and beats the **** out of the pirates Dominus Alterai wrote:Step 4.) PROFIT!!! Indeed.
Step 6.) POCO's become pure low sec battle grounds particularly over Temperate and Barren worlds Step 7.) No one has the ability to see through CCP's rose colored glasses and prefer the economic incentives (ITs the Kill mail stupid) [no offence intended] Step 8.) CCP goes back to the drawing board inorder to try and social rig low sec to fit Dust 514 (And I like Dust btw)
Sarcasm aside I'm gonna call out CCP Omen and Team Pi on one important thing:
When you tell us you'll watch how things go... you're telling us you have no clue how much this might break the game! |
Davelantor
The Resistance Movement The Unforgiven Alliance
28
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Posted - 2011.10.19 16:59:00 -
[897] - Quote
so, in best situation ... a PvP corp will take over the POCO's and set 10% tax (not to mention it will be most likely 25% .. because lets face it .. people are assholes) ... because our corp cant divide resources to camp a spot in middle of nowhere just for a single PI guy can enjoy 0% tax ... NO .. instead now we pay 10% tax .. AND have to compete with WH and 0.0 PI noobs that can and will drive the prices as low as they can because they dont pay any tax for production.
Not to mention while this is happening, a typical new starter that will be very likely confined to high sec. cant get any profit, because he doesnt have enough isk to export the material from the planet ... AWESOME :D |
Dominus Alterai
No Bullshit Jokers Wild.
30
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Posted - 2011.10.19 17:05:00 -
[898] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Dominus Alterai wrote: If a group of bored pirates in battleships finds a POCO, they may decide to reinforce it just because they can. I can see these as a way to lure out defending fleets and get more fights, not just for PI reasons. You are exactly right. People will attack these POCO to provoke more fights so CCP are creating new battle fields in addition to people just fighting on stations, gates and belts. If this is CCP's intention, then let them say it, but CCP Omen as repeatedly said that his is a purely economic decision. because let's face it, people like ISK more than kills right?
(That's sarcasm btw) |
Holy One
SniggWaffe
49
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 17:06:00 -
[899] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Holy One wrote:Dominus Alterai wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Why are people assuming that low sec dwellers don't do PI?
No one is assuming that. We're saying that Low-sec is too dangerous/indefensible to be able to anchor POCOs on a planet and still make a profit, especially when a relativley small group of battleships can put it into reinforced, preventing you from exporting your PI to the customs office. For those people PI ninjas, you can still launch your PI resources the old fashioned way with a command center launch. You won't be able to launch much, but you can still do PI that way. If CCP increased the cargo capacity of the command centers or even the planetary warehouses (can't remember what they are actually called), all would be well with the world of PI. This and: 1. People are doing it because its reliable. It takes a lot of time to set up supply chains for large scale PI operations, it costs a lot up front in isk, rl cash to pay for character training etc. All of the projected income is accounted for well in advance and any disruption to that supply chain results in accounts not being plexed on time and that results in lost business for ccp. 2. PI is a casual pay style. Forcing people in to the blob/sov/pos mechanic playstyle is not 'adding content' to a feature it is fundamentally changing it in to another play style. One that those people do not want or already choose to participate in/avoid in other aspects of the game. Is it out of the question for these PI alts to contact the dominant force (who also own POCO) in a chosen system and say: "Hey, i would like to continue me PI operation in your system and i'm willing to pay the 10% tax. Please make me blue to your corp."?
lol
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Smoking Blunts
Zebra Corp BricK sQuAD.
110
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 17:09:00 -
[900] - Quote
so is this gonna be another of the changes that kills alts off?
seeing as ccp just shed 20% of there staff, which is about the same as the pcu has dropped since they started nerf'ing everything in sight, starting with sanctums and then dual boxing with incrapter
CCP-áare full of words and no action. We watch what they do and its nothing but false statements and lies.
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