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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 63 post(s) |
Sarina Berghil
New Zion Judge Advocate
1
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:08:00 -
[151] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:Quote: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE CCP make it so that we can launch our own personal custom offices as well not simply 'for the corporation'.
It's really quite cheap to create your own one man corporation. Also, the "little" guy is adviced to use CONCORD's customs offices in High-Sec. Regards Omen
The little guy may be a member of an existing corporation with real people, but without the roles and permissions to anchor structures. He may not want to give up the social and gameplay experience of his real corp because of PI.
Also I don't think EvE needs more reasons for new players or casual players to hug high-sec. There are too many reasons already. |
taque
Suddern Comfort
0
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:09:00 -
[152] - Quote
Quote:What we are doing
Making planetary taxation a profitable business!
well, i'm afraid the bigger corporations and alliances that already have much power will have another way for having more income and gaining power. there is nothing that will compensate the smaller players and corporations or atleast i don't see it.
i just hope it will work out fine for the gameplay in general. i srtarted PI to gain a little more steady income and it runs fine. i guess those changes will force players and corporations to cooperate more. |
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
41
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:09:00 -
[153] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:CCP Omen wrote: We will try and figure out how to avoid the blob incentive without making the experience of owning one, EVEN WORSE. It's a very delicate problem. The relative low value of most CO might be enough not to warrant assembling a blob.
Regards Omen
this looks like it has a stupidly good passive tank: can that be nerfed some so that small gangs don't have most of their dps removed by shield regen?
You are part of one of the biggest alliances and you want a softer target?
Rees Noturana // Professional Treasure Hunter |
Lucas Kell
Lost Enterprises... SOLAR WING
6
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:10:00 -
[154] - Quote
This is all well and good, but this also means small corporations are going to get heavily hit, since they won't be able to afford to produce, anchor and guard these anywhere close to as easily as bigger corps and alliances. I thought the existing way PI was done was fine and fair, but this seems to be moving against that. Null sec will be remarkably unchanged for the most part as the sov holding alliances can guard these, (though its even more of a time sink to destroy and re-anchor these when you take over a system now), but low sec will end up with close to no PI, as you will just get pirates blowing them up for fun, they won't be worth the cash investment. |
Dradius Calvantia
Creative Cookie Procuring Rote Kapelle
41
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:11:00 -
[155] - Quote
I see this as an excellent opportunity as an objective for smaller gang, hit and run tactics. If the hit points are balanced right, it will allow small fleets to significantly impact a SOV holding alliance over time, by continuously impacting their POS fuel production and starving the enemy POSes to death instead of blobbing them.
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Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
127
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:11:00 -
[156] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:We will try and figure out how to avoid the blob incentive without making the experience of owning one, EVEN WORSE. It's a very delicate problem. The relative low value of most CO might be enough not to warrant assembling a blob.
What's the point of having an EHP buffer to shoot down in the first place?
You want three things:
1) It should be possible to attack this while giving the defender a time window to defend. (Question: How long?) 2) It should be required to assemble a sensible fleet size to do this. (Question: How large at least?) 3) It should give the defender the opportunity to set the stage for the actual engagement, the defense of the structure
(3) is well handled with the reinforce timer.
(1) and (2) are badly done with an EHP buffer: While it creates a time in which the defender can defend, that time goes down with "more people", so it simply rewards bringing "more people".
Make it a timer instead of an EHP buffer, and require at least N ships of neutral or negative standing with the owning entity within Mkm to start the timer. That's *exactly* what you want: "You need at least this amount of ships to attack, and the defender has exactly this amount of time to react. If he doesn't, you play again when it comes out of reinforced."
(FW-style, except without having to run randomly spawning timers until you accidentally hit 30 in a single system...) |
Raziphan Rebular
Crypsus
4
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:12:00 -
[157] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote: It's really quite cheap to create your own one man corporation. Also, the "little" guy is adviced to use CONCORD's customs offices in High-Sec.
Regards Omen
Sure it is cheap and easy to make a 1 man corp but some of us like to be in a corporation to socialize with people. Why make things more complex by requiring corporate roles and have only the option of sending the isk to the corp wallet.
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neurocite
FACTS on EVE RED.OverLord
0
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:13:00 -
[158] - Quote
so i did write a post , but the awesome new forums spat the dummy and deleted it , so bollox.
summary - might work in low sec , will f*** null sec PI a treat because of current alliance dynamics and holder corps. |
Raziphan Rebular
Crypsus
4
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:13:00 -
[159] - Quote
accidental double post |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
12
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:14:00 -
[160] - Quote
Midnight Hope wrote:If you are going to blow up every PO on launch date, I hope you thought what you are going to do with all the stuff in those offices. Are you going to blow it up as well??
I can already see PI prices spiking, regardless of the increase in link capacity. The stuff that you have in the CO's will be teleported to a station hangar. I forgot the exact details of which station etc. Game Designer Team Pi |
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XavierVE
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
6
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:14:00 -
[161] - Quote
Quote:Also, the "little" guy is adviced to use CONCORD's customs offices in High-Sec.
And then CCP wonders why most players never leave high-sec. |
Dinta Zembo
Snuff Box
2
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:15:00 -
[162] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:Dinta Zembo wrote:So this means that if I'm the only person using a bunch of planets for PI, I will have to personally invest hundreds of millions of ISK in to buying 5 customs offices? Don't think so.
Correct me if I'm wrong. Someone else could set them up and you just use them and pay taxes?
I think it would take 5 years just to get the original investment out if I'm the only customer. Not a great business.
Seems like you killed some PI as well. |
electrostatus
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:16:00 -
[163] - Quote
Hmm, I never accounted for different tax rates at different locations. Guess I'll have to update my Profit Calculator for sure now, but I don't have the time, at least for another month. On the other hand, it does already allow you to change the tax rates. Well anyway, how will the new tax system work?
Personally, I thought instead of having these custom offices, one would have a PI ship. Upon warping to a planet with your structures on it, it would warp you to some random low orbit instead of the planet's normal warp in point. Then items launched at the spaceport would be redirected to your ship and dock with it instead of going to a customs office. You'd also be able to launch stuff down to the planet from this ship. So it'd be like a mobile customs office. Ah, perhaps in the future. |
Jaggins
Ixion Defence Systems Tactical Narcotics Team
0
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:16:00 -
[164] - Quote
Kaminu wrote:A good extension would be to set different taxes for different standings. i.E.
Corp = 0% Alliance = 2% +10 = 5% +5 = 10% 0 = no access -5 = no access -10 = no access
Why not selling the service to anyone that is willing to pay for it? If a player CO is placed in low sec why should the owner not earn more from player he dont know as from his friends?
This could really make NPC null and Lowsec PI interesting. |
Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
127
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:17:00 -
[165] - Quote
... ok, I'm confused.
Quote:One point to note is that the CO is still operational while in reinforcement, so unless the aggressor sticks around for the entire time you'll just rep the office back up when they are gone. If this becomes a big problem, we have solutions to mitigate it.
Does this mean that if the office is in reinforced, it can get repped up to full shields even *during* reinforced mode, and then needs to be reinforced again? |
Lucas Kell
Lost Enterprises... SOLAR WING
6
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:17:00 -
[166] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:Dinta Zembo wrote:So this means that if I'm the only person using a bunch of planets for PI, I will have to personally invest hundreds of millions of ISK in to buying 5 customs offices? Don't think so.
Correct me if I'm wrong. Someone else could set them up and you just use them and pay taxes? LOL. I wonder who these mysterious strangers will be running around chucking up PCOs everywhere? The best planets will get PCOs and the rest will just stop being used. |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
12
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:17:00 -
[167] - Quote
Arkady Sadik wrote:If I got this right, these structures will have a bit less EHP than small towers, and cost about 80m ISK to build and set up (including the BPC from a FW corp). There is basically zero risk going to one and trying to blow it up - even if you are alone in some small ship. It will just take a while.
I'm not sure this is particularly good. It invites "bored people" to just reinforce a few customs offices etc. when no one is around. It would likely be good to keep an eye on how that plays out. They might might need some kind of protection (make it possible to anchor POS batteries around it?)
Also, do customs offices continue to work while reinforced?
We will absolutely monitor this closely. Yes they continue to work while reinforced. Game Designer Team Pi |
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Raziphan Rebular
Crypsus
4
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:18:00 -
[168] - Quote
XavierVE wrote:Quote:Also, the "little" guy is adviced to use CONCORD's customs offices in High-Sec. And then CCP wonders why most players never leave high-sec.
Ya I'm just a guy and I'm not part of some alliance, just a small corporation but I do my PI in lowsec, it's not great to have the Devs tell me 'tough *****' go do PI in highsec. I'm taking the risk here shouldn't I get some sort of reward? Instead I'm getting shoved out of Lowsec so that larger corporations that have massive resources can control everything. PI was great because it was accessible to all, now it's just another resource for alliances to fight over. |
muhuh Aihaken
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:20:00 -
[169] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:Arkady Sadik wrote:If I got this right, these structures will have a bit less EHP than small towers, and cost about 80m ISK to build and set up (including the BPC from a FW corp). There is basically zero risk going to one and trying to blow it up - even if you are alone in some small ship. It will just take a while.
I'm not sure this is particularly good. It invites "bored people" to just reinforce a few customs offices etc. when no one is around. It would likely be good to keep an eye on how that plays out. They might might need some kind of protection (make it possible to anchor POS batteries around it?)
Also, do customs offices continue to work while reinforced? We will absolutely monitor this closely. Yes they continue to work while reinforced.
I guess these structures have no forcefield so that means a nyx fitted for max dps could reinforce one of these things (presuming 25% reinforcement) in about 10 mins. |
Jake Centauri
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:22:00 -
[170] - Quote
I'm sure a lot of hisec POS owners will throw up their hands on this one. If there is a dramatic increase in PI material prices and POS fuels, why feed the tower in the first place? Just shut down the tower and run hisec PI for profit.... |
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Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
41
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:23:00 -
[171] - Quote
@CCP Omen
Can you look at balancing the rocket delivery method? I haven't used it forever and I'm not in-game right now but if I remember right its pretty pathetic. It should be a viable option in some cases, such as planets that don't and probably won't get a CO and for smugglers. It'll also help during the transition period. Rees Noturana // Professional Treasure Hunter |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
12
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:23:00 -
[172] - Quote
Mikron Alexarr wrote:30mil for the first stage module, another 30 in parts to upgrade it to functionality. BPC cost 6k LP and 20mil from CONCORD LP store (incursion) or 3k LP and 10mil from factional warfare LP stores.
So, weGÇÖll probably see 200mil for the first mods. After a month, itGÇÖs possible prices will drop to 100mil. We probably wonGÇÖt see bottom dollar (~75mil) for at least 3-6 months. This doesnGÇÖt even begin to address the HUGE spike in PI material prices that weGÇÖll see. The early speculation alone will spike prices to minimum 200% up to a month before release and final details are set in place. Towers are going to also see an incredible increase in price due to simple demand for the parts for the customs offices. Although they probably are not produced or consumed in high enough volumes for the price increase to be very noticeable at first. Simply fueling towers will also become more burdensome, especially in the early days of the release of the feature.
All mechanics aside, I don't see this as a positive change. There are just not enough benefits coming from the change for players as a whole. I will say that the small operator out in low-sec is faced with a decision of putting the mods out and risking large sums of isk or simply packing up and going back to mission running. I'm curious as to how much these 'small operators' are contributing to the supply of PI materials.
Inflation is also a concern. You're removing a consistent isk sink and introducing a 'one-time' sink in the cost of the BPCs. WIth the prices posted, I think you're overestimating how often these structures will be destroyed. The structure shooting game will be fun at first, but over time, I see this as a concern.
Essentially, for awhile, towers will see a rapid decline in usage or simply a higher cost of operation. Invasion of space will see a similar effect. I see those two things as a very good reason to consider further development of the feature. More benefits should be added to the process of PI, such as (mentioned several times in this thread alone) simplified PI management, tools that help ease the click-fest, and possibly an increase in PI yeild from all planets to help deal with the supply shock.
Let's agree to disagree, one comment though, Since highsec taxes are doubled, and highsec produce 50% of all PI goods that should help counter the inflation, if we have overestimated the kill ratio for the offices themselves. Game Designer Team Pi |
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Chicken Pizza
Penumbra Institute Inver Brass
0
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:24:00 -
[173] - Quote
Yet another blob-able structure. Why not just make it a somewhat weaker structure that requires a subcapital fleet via, say, an acceleration gate or some other such method? I just can't see this as a feasible way to make PI more interesting. If anything, it will become more like playing SBU tag out in sov space. Who would want more of that?
I can see how this might have some synergy with DUST514, but since I wasn't really a big fan of the concept of DUST514 anyway, I don't really care. |
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CCP Omen
C C P C C P Alliance
12
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:25:00 -
[174] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:CCP Omen wrote: We will try and figure out how to avoid the blob incentive without making the experience of owning one, EVEN WORSE. It's a very delicate problem. The relative low value of most CO might be enough not to warrant assembling a blob.
Regards Omen
this looks like it has a stupidly good passive tank: can that be nerfed some so that small gangs don't have most of their dps removed by shield regen? The shield regen is extremly slow! Game Designer Team Pi |
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Metis Laxon
Zero Point Group
6
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:25:00 -
[175] - Quote
Fantastic change :D Finally some more needed interactivity for PI |
Tammarr
Trident RMBK
0
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:25:00 -
[176] - Quote
How will this work with aggression in lowsec?
I see militia corps, with the access to the bpcs dropping customs gadget on some planets.
Now imagine it happens, I would assume the bad boys go gcc.
As the office is coming out of reinforce time, the militia has gathered a defense.
The bad boys show up, they are not blinky/pirates by default. If Militia fires first to try to lock down gates or keep the offending force from setting up on grid: Militia goes GCC. GCC militia cant be remote repaired without getting huge FACTION standing hits, a signifcant disadvantage there.
Also ofc applies to regular corps/players that dont want to go gcc. You must wait for the bad boys to gcc. Or they can just wait for you to bring shiny RR ships on grid to rep office shields up... and volley them, since you cant counter them setting up on grid without going gcc if they are not pirates.
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Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
116
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:26:00 -
[177] - Quote
Snowflake Tem wrote:Also, WTF has the militia got to do with this transfer of faction control to the capsualeer community?
Not sure about other factions but buying custom office blueprints from say; Federation Customs or Amarr Trade Registry with loyalty points would make much more sense than grubbing LPs with the militia.
^^ This |
Orakkus
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
10
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:26:00 -
[178] - Quote
It seems to me that part of the goal of this change is to give small gangs more "targets of opportunity" that they can use to harass larger alliances. As such, can you tell me if the following option is on the table: Aside from just the "glory" of reinforcing one of these offices, do the attackers get any reward (i.e. PI materials from the office) either when they reinforce it, or after they destroy it, or both?
Your comment earlier indicates that you would still be able to withdraw materials even in reinforced mode, which means that any physical reward to taking one of these down is pretty minor, and that even the tactical or strategic reward would be very minor at best. |
Arth Lawing
Penumbra Institute Inver Brass
0
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:27:00 -
[179] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:Sir HappyPants wrote:Jack Dant wrote:Sir HappyPants wrote:CCP Omen wrote: =HP scpecification= * Customs Office Gantry ** Shield: 10,000,000 ** Armor: 500,000 ** Structure: 300,000
* Customs Office ** Shield: 10,000,000 ** Armor: 2,500,000 ** Structure: 2,000,000
Regards Omen
That would take a long time for a lone supercap pilot for anyone who may be wondering... I doubt too many drive-by-POCO bimbing will happen with HP this high... 12 minutes to reinforce with a solo nyx is not "a long time". 12 minutes in space and potentially vulnerable, especially solo? Long enough to make some (most?) supercap owners think twice imo. That said, with HP values that high, it'll be another thing that will "need" a blob. We will try and figure out how to avoid the blob incentive without making the experience of owning one, EVEN WORSE. It's a very delicate problem. The relative low value of most CO might be enough not to warrant assembling a blob. Regards Omen
It's not that difficult to figure out, just have entry to the customs area through an acceleration gate to remove capitals. Perhaps even the gate could have a toll depending on non-industrial ship class meaning that large attacking forces would be forced to pay their way in. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
5
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:27:00 -
[180] - Quote
Personally hate this idea.
Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of turning it over to players. I can see this as a very interesting mechanic. Now a low sec pirate corp can have a new income stream. wanna do PI in pirate infested area A? You will have to pay them to do so. Pirate corp B likes Pirate corp A's territory? They can take over and claim the planets as their own.
The BIG issue I have with the setup is no defenses. Yes I understand you want people to fight with ships, but the big issue is the global nature of the game.
Unless you are in a huge corp with players from all over the globe, you are likely going to have serious holes in your corp's playtime. A corp from a TZ other than yours can simply go in and trash a CO without repurcussion.
It seems dumb to make players have to invest effort and isk into a structure, and then have no way of defending it. At least with a POS I can make a choice. I can make a POS with lots of structures to make stuff, or I can make one with lots of defenses. One is more vulnerable but profitable, the other is less profitable but safer. But I can choose how I want to deter people from attacking my structure.
But these new CO's I will have to setup and just hope for the best?
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