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Concurssi Mellenar
The Scope Gallente Federation
42
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Posted - 2013.04.27 22:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
If the empires are gradually losing their power, lore-wise, to the capsuleers as is said in the Origins video, then why do the empires train capsuleers? Or possibly even make them (I'm a bit fuzzy as to who actually does that)? It seems like that would be detrimental to them, if they just keep training up people to take over the universe from them... unless that's what CCP is going for? He who controls the veld, controls the universe. |
Faulx
Brother Fox Corp
146
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Posted - 2013.04.28 00:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
In the empires' minds, capsuleers are a necessary evil. I shudder to think what kind of havoc would take place if capsule pilots weren't slaughtering thousands of pirates and rogue drones each day (just imagine... the empires might have to stand down from their borders and stop bickering between themselves long enough to actually deal with real threats for a change).
In the end, I suspect the empires aren't concerned with whether capsuleers as a group are a threat to them, if but for one reason: CONCORD can end our clone contracts. If we get too out of control, they can pull the plug on our immortality. For the empires to really start to feel the heat, CONCORD would have to break ties with them and be brought under capsuleer control. Then things would start to get serious in their eyes. |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
1444
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Posted - 2013.04.28 06:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
A capsuleer cuts down on crew costs, which are often one of biggest expenses of any naval ship, even in reality. The human resources overhead for crewing a battleship is massive. Feeding, training, paying, insuring, and benefiting all those people is very very expensive. Then you have to maintain the ship and all this other nonsense. With capsuleers requiring only a fraction of the crew for a ship, this is less of a problem.
Tactically, they are also far more effective in combat. This is why we can take on entire level 4 missions alone. Those are some damn impressive odds. Imagine if you had to pay an entire fleet of normal, fully crewed, ships to take on those pirates. Operating a major fleet action like that through traditional means is horribly expensive. Why bother when you can pay a capsuleer a fraction of the cost to get it done himself?
Capsuleers sell themselves cheap. A million ISK to fight off a horde of fourty pirate ships alone? That's barely enough to buy a destroyer and fit it.
Lastly but not least... if a capsuleer dies, it costs the agent's corporation NOTHING. The capsuleer doesn't even get paid. The agent corp doesn't need to replace any ships, or retrain new crews, or pay death benefits, or anything. They just offer the mission to someone else. Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Sub-Director of Public Relations |
Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera JIHADASQUAD
818
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Posted - 2013.04.28 06:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
The EVE Online player base only represent the 'independent' capsuleers, a very small but growing percentage of all capsuleers.
The Empires have their own hordes of capsuleers in their navies. You can kind of pretend all the other Eve players are the ones that are freelancing, running missons, doing their own things, settling in 0.0, etc. There are many, many more that we never interact with serving in the military forces of all factions.
Sabik now, Sabik forever |
Concurssi Mellenar
The Scope Gallente Federation
43
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Posted - 2013.04.28 09:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hmm, I guess that makes sense. But this raises another question: shouldn't we be paying upkeep for the maintenance and crew on our ships? He who controls the veld, controls the universe. |
Faulx
Brother Fox Corp
148
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Posted - 2013.04.28 14:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
By Jove! I think we do!... With ONLY one low monthly fee, we pay for ship fuel and crew costs for whatever ship we may fly during that period. Yes folks, with the purchase of a Pilot's License Extension (or PLEX), you too can roam the stars worry free.
Titan owners get a really good deal on this package... |
Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera JIHADASQUAD
819
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Posted - 2013.04.28 17:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Concurssi Mellenar wrote:Hmm, I guess that makes sense. But this raises another question: shouldn't we be paying upkeep for the maintenance and crew on our ships?
You are. Don't forget a few thousand ISK is enough money for baseliners to pay several years of salary for them and their family.
Compared to 99.9% of the cluster each capsuleer is -fabulously- wealthy.
Sabik now, Sabik forever |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
1450
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Posted - 2013.04.29 00:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
Faulx wrote:By Jove! I think we do!... With ONLY one low monthly fee, we pay for ship fuel and crew costs for whatever ship we may fly during that period. Yes folks, with the purchase of a Pilot's License Extension (or PLEX), you too can roam the stars worry free.
Titan owners get a really good deal on this package...
We can generally assume that we pay the equivalent of 500,000,000 ISK (roughly) every month for the right to fly our ships. That amount likely covers the significant crew costs many times over. Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Sub-Director of Public Relations |
Freya Kaundur
Paradigm Shift.
2
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Posted - 2013.05.01 04:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
i read some where that 1 isk is more then the average colonist would make in there life time.
and i would love to see a all out war declared on capsuleers by empire. |
Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
1189
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Posted - 2013.05.02 09:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
Quote:i read some where that 1 isk is more then the average colonist would make in there life time.
I did the math once using things like milk, tobacco and spirits and averaging their effective values and the result was that an ISK works out as being worth about US$230.
So, it's not quite as extreme as you heard. It still means that capsuleers are playing around with insane amounts of money though. If you can afford to buy and fit an interceptor then in the real world you'd be a multi-billionaire. a handful of supercarriers would bankrupt the USA. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Marcus Gord
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
6900
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Posted - 2013.05.02 09:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
Stitcher wrote: a handful of supercarriers would bankrupt the USA.
oops. too late You can't take the sky from me |
Kirjava
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
3494
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Posted - 2013.05.02 10:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:. a handful of supercarriers would bankrupt the USA. Meanwhile in 2013.....
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. Cardinal Kirjava - Redeclaring the Crusade in the name of the Goddess since 2012. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ |
Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
1190
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Posted - 2013.05.02 10:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
dammit, and we don't even have awesome faster-than-light giant warships to show for it. 'MURICA. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Niko medes
Sonoran Shadow
35
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Posted - 2013.05.03 00:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:dammit, and we don't even have awesome faster-than-light giant warships to show for it. 'MURICA.
Maybe one day
In regards to the OP, half a million independent capsuleers aren't high on the list of threats to the four Empires. We war amongst ourselves more than the Empires do with each other. Though the fact that the four Empires are losing their grip, even with all the conflicts we have with each other.. shows just how powerful we are individually and even more so as corporations, alliances, and Empires..
gods among men is sort of an understatement in this game heh |
Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera JIHADASQUAD
826
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Posted - 2013.05.03 00:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
I seem to recall somewhere that the capsuleer market is highly inflated to provide some currency-sinks for the wider cluster.. ie if you translate ISK into -planetary- currency is where things get really out of proportion. Something like a barrel of wheat is a few hundred ISK on capsuleer regulated markets but much different planetside. Sabik now, Sabik forever |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
272
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Posted - 2013.05.03 00:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:Quote:i read some where that 1 isk is more then the average colonist would make in there life time. I did the math once using things like milk, tobacco and spirits and averaging their effective values and the result was that an ISK works out as being worth about US$230. So, it's not quite as extreme as you heard. It still means that capsuleers are playing around with insane amounts of money though. If you can afford to buy and fit an interceptor then in the real world you'd be a multi-billionaire. a handful of supercarriers would bankrupt the USA.
Wasn't there an AT-related piece of fiction several years where a surviving crewman from the winning team got something like 100,000 isk? It worked out to him and his extended family being set for life, which indicates one isk is a lot of money, but hardly more than a planetside baseliner would ever see in their entire life.
Also, something to bear in mind is that as the economy grows and advances, the ceiling for how rich you can possibly be grows. |
Mirima Thurander
Dark Order. Self Sabatoge
649
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Posted - 2013.05.03 20:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
CCP, has come out and said before times the players are not truly ALL of the capsuleers, there are many many more still in the service of the Empires.
All automated intel should be removed from the game including jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel. |
Kirjava
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
4115
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Posted - 2013.05.04 00:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
The Gallente Federation is lead by Roden, a Capsuleer, as is the Ammarian Emprie lead by Sarum, a Capsuleer.
I can't remember about the Minmatar, but I think Heth is mortal.
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. Cardinal Kirjava - Redeclaring the Crusade in the name of the Goddess since 2012. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ |
Concurssi Mellenar
The Scope Gallente Federation
64
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Posted - 2013.05.05 10:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
Maybe one day the capsuleers working for the empires will join their free brethren and turn on their masters. Aside from the leaders, of course, that wouldn't make any sense. He who controls the veld, controls the universe. |
Carniflex
StarHunt Intrepid Crossing
80
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Posted - 2013.05.06 12:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
Kirjava wrote:The Gallente Federation is lead by Roden, a Capsuleer, as is the Ammarian Emprie lead by Sarum, a Capsuleer.
I can't remember about the Minmatar, but I think Heth is mortal.
I highly doubt that Amarr boss would be capsuleer as their faith does not allow cloning. Turning into capsuleer kinda involves dying in the process. Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... *THWONK!* GOT the bastard. |
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Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
265
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Posted - 2013.05.06 12:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:I highly doubt that Amarr boss would be capsuleer as their faith does not allow cloning. Turning into capsuleer kinda involves dying in the process.
Jamyl isn't a true capsuleer, but she is a clone of the original. Basically, she wanted to cheat through the ritual suicides, but things didn't go quite as expected. |
Axel Kurki
Aseyakone
18
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Posted - 2013.05.06 13:25:00 -
[22] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:Kirjava wrote:The Gallente Federation is lead by Roden, a Capsuleer, as is the Ammarian Emprie lead by Sarum, a Capsuleer.
I can't remember about the Minmatar, but I think Heth is mortal. I highly doubt that Amarr boss would be capsuleer as their faith does not allow cloning. Turning into capsuleer kinda involves dying in the process. Technically, installing implants by invasive surgery into living patients is a possibility, though a more risky way to produce capsuleers. This way is mentioned in the short story Jovian Wetgrave. There are several references to people being capsuleers before the capsule and the clone were married together. Additionally, there are several mentions (such as Cult of Tetrimon capsuleers) of non-cloning capsuleers in relatively "modern" days.
So, yes, canonically Jamyl is a capsuleer. If we ignore the whole "committed a suicide and was cloned" thing ("which is officially spun as "a miracle"), most of the Heirs are quite old, so if they got the implants, they probably got them quite a long time ago (as capsuleer training is demanding, probably best done young).
Ages of Amarr Royalty (AD 23236 is YC 0, it is now YC 115): - The Empress: Jamyl is 103 (Born YC 12) - House Ardishapur: Yonis is 139. (Born AD 23212) - House Kador: We don't know how old Uriam Kador is. - House Kor-Azor: Aritcio is 108. (He had is 99th birthday in YC106) - House Sarum: Merimeth is 66 (Born in YC 49) - House Tash-Murkon: You don't ask a lady's age. (We don't know how old Catiz is - his father was born in AD 23176 and would be 176 by now, Catiz is the youngest child.) - Khanid Kingdom: Khanid II is 380. (Born AD 22972, rumoured to have been cloned.)
Edit (this paragraph only): The threat of mindlock upon decanting from the capsule would have probably not have been a problem to the Amarr Heirs for the purposes of the ritual suicide, since they were all expected to die. (Except Jamyl, who the House Elder knew would cheat and have a clone.)
However, dying to become a capsuleer: This is probably the easiest way, and most regular capsuleers are expected to be pod-killed anyway at some point of their career. Independent capsuleers are also somewhat extralegal, so the deceased status of their mortal bodies probably makes some of the paperwork easier. |
Kirjava
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
4525
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Posted - 2013.05.06 14:18:00 -
[23] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:Kirjava wrote:The Gallente Federation is lead by Roden, a Capsuleer, as is the Ammarian Emprie lead by Sarum, a Capsuleer.
I can't remember about the Minmatar, but I think Heth is mortal. I highly doubt that Amarr boss would be capsuleer as their faith does not allow cloning. Turning into capsuleer kinda involves dying in the process. In the novels, she is a Capsuleer. She is Immortal, she is a clone and the original died when she lost the succession trials.
She is also schizophrenic, mentally unstable and falls into bouts of delusional megalomania. Basicaly she's a yandere.
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. Cardinal Kirjava - Redeclaring the Crusade in the name of the Goddess since 2012. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ |
Esna Pitoojee
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
276
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Posted - 2013.05.06 17:51:00 -
[24] - Quote
Just to clear up a couple things here:
- Jamyl is a capsuleer, as were the other four heirs.
- The bit about dieing to become a capsuleer is a new addition to the PF, having appeared for a short while as a brief mention in the newbie tutorial before a subsequent patch removed it. Aside from a possible very indirect reference in the newest trailer - the exact meaning of which isn't even entirely clear, and may not even refer to an induction-by-death practice - it has not reappeared in PF since then. - Most people I spoke to when the reference was in the tutorial treated it as a new addition to the capsuleering process, not present in the induction of anyone prior to that point for reasons Axel pointed out above. Given its subsequent removal, the exact canonicity of this process at any point is unclear.
- The Amarr do not ban cloning outright. Only cloning of the direct royal families is outright prohibited under the Sacred Flesh doctrine. - There is a mission text that suggests that the disapproval factor for cloning a given Holder varies depending on how far they are from the Emperor's throne. Extrapolating from this, a major Holder, one who might potentially add their lineage to a royal family being cloned would be a huge scandal. A minor Holder, unlikely to reach a position of importance for several generations if even at all, would merely produce deep frowns and possibly some jockeying for position from rival Holders. A commoner or slave being cloned would barely be noticed. - There is PF that feature Amarr - even Holders - making use of the cloning technology without the issue of the Sacred Flesh doctrine coming up at all. |
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