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Yaoriko
TeamAXE inc.
4
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 13:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why Amarr battleships are so rare seen in Incursions? Im missing something or what, they are not so welcomed at fleets? |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
980
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 13:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
armor fleets will probably take a pulse abaddon. otherwise, a pair of pulse nightmares with a cap transfer chain and shield transporters for emergencies is a very common sight in shield fleets.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Yaoriko
TeamAXE inc.
4
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Posted - 2013.04.30 14:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
So, no amarr battleships for shield fleets? |
Goldiiee
Tax and War Haven
360
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Posted - 2013.04.30 15:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
Every now and then you see a shield fitted Amarr BS for incursions, but for the most part they run with the Armor community. Of course it's not hard to get the resists up to acceptable levels on any ship so a logi can keep you alive, and usually 2 or 3 mid slots is all you need for tank, only one slot needed if you don't mind spending the ISK.
The Vanguard and Assault fleets could probably manage to work it in with very little effort, but the HQ fleet are requiring a Prop Mod more and more. I am not saying it can't be done, because some genius with a lot of time on his hands will come in here and point out my obvious lack of fitting skills just to say 'See it can be done' I am just saying a Prop Mod and tank on a ship with limited mid slots tends to be problematic. Reason and logic never wins over Stubborn and Convinced (But I still try..) |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
1032
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Posted - 2013.04.30 16:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yaoriko wrote:So, no amarr battleships for shield fleets?
Amar =/= shield. In fact, shield wasn't considered viable in incursions at all in the early days, until they nerfed Sansha dps. The first fleets in SiSi were made of armor hacs.
Bhaals, Paladins, and Navy Geddons are always popular. There's also the standard Legion VG doctrine. To date, no shield fleet, regardless of composition and pimp, can come close to contest t2 fitted legion fleets in NCOs/NMCs. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Goldiiee
Tax and War Haven
360
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 17:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:There's also the standard Legion VG doctrine. To date, no shield fleet, regardless of composition and pimp, can come close to contest t2 fitted legion fleets in NCOs/NMCs. IDK sabre, I slapped a set of Dual 425mm Autos on my Mach the other day and was tearing up an NCO, I might take even money on a Dual425 Mach fleet against a Legion fleet. Would be fun to test out. Reason and logic never wins over Stubborn and Convinced (But I still try..) |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
1034
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 20:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
Goldiiee wrote:sabre906 wrote:There's also the standard Legion VG doctrine. To date, no shield fleet, regardless of composition and pimp, can come close to contest t2 fitted legion fleets in NCOs/NMCs. IDK sabre, I slapped a set of Dual 425mm Autos on my Mach the other day and was tearing up an NCO, I might take even money on a Dual425 Mach fleet against a Legion fleet. Would be fun to test out.
Been tried ages ago. Large ACs with the targeting resolution gap can't volley NCO rats reliably, there's dmg loss over range, and have lower rof. BS (even Mach with 3 sebos) locking time is way too long compared to properly subbed and fitted legions.
But feel free. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
972
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 22:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
Biggest promlem is ARMOUR FLEETS GOT SCREWED MUCH WORSE THEN SHIELD FLEETS DID FROM THE ESCALATION NERF! Shield always had a bit of an advantage in PvE but preEscalation the Incursion rats were fairly balanced. ARMOUR tankers got screwed big time with the NPC rats in Escalation. Armour can't really compete well now in anything but Vangaurd NCO's. An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta theTerminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system'scrashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children' |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
7
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Posted - 2013.05.01 00:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
Amarr battleships, with the exception of the standard apoc, aren't particularly uncommon in Warp To Me fleets. The standard apoc's 3 mid slots makes it too hard to shield tank without going shiny, on a hull that doesn't warrant going nearly that shiny and which has fairly massive cap issues when fit to incursion specs. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
1037
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 04:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:Amarr battleships, with the exception of the standard apoc, aren't particularly uncommon in Warp To Me fleets. The standard apoc's 3 mid slots makes it too hard to shield tank without going shiny, on a hull that doesn't warrant going nearly that shiny and which has fairly massive cap issues when fit to incursion specs.
3 mids? Apoc has 4 mids, which is why it sucks, as that leaves it 7 instead of 8 lows... That, and low dps. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
7
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Posted - 2013.05.01 12:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:
3 mids? Apoc has 4 mids, which is why it sucks, as that leaves it 7 instead of 8 lows... That, and low dps.
I was thinking of the geddon, with 3. Boy is my face red now. |
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
258
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Posted - 2013.05.01 12:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:To date, no shield fleet, regardless of composition and pimp, can come close to contest t2 fitted legion fleets in NCOs/NMCs.
Wrong.
Legion fleets were unstoppable during The Blitz Fleet days, before VG's got nerfed. The nerf I speak of is adding rats other than frigate rats into NCO's. As soon as something besides frigates were in NCO's the blitz fleet guys moved onto higher isk/hr activities.
A fleet with of 6+ vindicators beats a legion fleet in NCO's but not by much.
NMC's & OTA's machariels/nightmares/2 vindi's reign supreme.
As for the OP's question... flying amarr you are probably better off in an armor fleet with a legion or navy geddon. Not today spaghetti. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
974
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 16:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sexy Cakes wrote:sabre906 wrote:To date, no shield fleet, regardless of composition and pimp, can come close to contest t2 fitted legion fleets in NCOs/NMCs. Wrong. . ^^
Most definitely wrong. Legions are a frigate killer class ship. Escalation's adding Romi's in NCO's killed the all legion fleets there. NMC's additions of Augas & extra Romi's made NMC's uncompetitive for armour fleets. OTA's were always doonimated by shield fleets in competitions between armour/shields. An interesting side effect was the nerfing of armour fleets appeared to really kill the NULL SEC incursions too (probably becuase mostly o doubling the sote completition times making these fleets much more rosky )
Amrour's best repsonse to the escalation nerf's unbalancing favoring shield fleets are the MWD fleets which only really work in VG's & are near usless in Assaults & HQ's (in a MOM they could possibly work but hasn't been tried ). MWD armour fleets furthermore really are only competitive in NCO's versus shields ( because the way escalation stacked the eHP of NPC cruisers overwelmingly in VGs instead of frigates ) & are occasionally lucky in OTA's if they have a big head start TBH An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta theTerminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system'scrashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children' |
Jill Antaris
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
33
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 13:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
Yaoriko wrote:Why Amarr battleships are so rare seen in Incursions? Im missing something or what, they are not so welcomed at fleets?
As for shield fleets probably because the Nightmare is considerable better for her fleets. For armor gangs, they are still the major workhorse here, navy geddon, navy apoc and Abaddon are still more commonly fielded as Megathrons and Vindicators in this gangs and even if the usage of paladins has increased over the last 1,5 years I was away, paladin shortage is still a common thing here and available pilots are rather rare. |
Doctor Ape MD
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
28
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 15:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
So as a pilot currently trained primarily in lasers, armor tanking, and amarr hulls, what is a good ship to shoot for to run in incursion armor fleets? My current mission boat is a Navy Apocalypse, and as soon as my current skill plan is finished I plan to either train up to Nightmare, keep going to a Paladin, or start cross training to Gallente or Minmatar hulls. I haven't really decided yet since there are a lot of pros and cons for each choice. |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
8
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 16:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
If you want into a shield HQ fleet with your Napoc, here is a good starting point for your fit
Navy apocalypse
High slots: Mega pulse laser II x 8
Medium slots: Adaptive invulnerability field II x 2 Pithum C-Type EM Ward Amplifier Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive
Low slots: Damage control II Heat Sink II x 4 Tracking enhancer II x3
Rigs Large Anti-thermanl Screen Reinforcer I Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II x2 |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
1048
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 18:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:If you want into a shield HQ fleet with your Napoc, here is a good starting point for your fit
Navy apocalypse
High slots: Mega pulse laser II x 8
Medium slots: Adaptive invulnerability field II x 2 Pithum C-Type EM Ward Amplifier Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive
Low slots: Damage control II Heat Sink II x 4 Tracking enhancer II x3
Rigs Large Anti-thermanl Screen Reinforcer I Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II x2
Shield aside... They won't pick you due to the severely anemic dps of Apoc. That's 600 dps compared to 1.1k of a geddon with set of matching range Curators, both using scorch. It's not even close to the numerous midrange boats that'll be competing for limited fleet spots.
You can try fitting tachs with fitting mods to snipe, but again there are better boats for that.
The whole reason to go shield is to pack as much dps as possible, no fc will pick a boat like Apoc that's so severely pre-gimped in dps even before fitting, when there are plenty of qualified competition around. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
8
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 08:52:00 -
[18] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:
Shield aside... They won't pick you due to the severely anemic dps of Apoc. That's 600 dps compared to 1.1k of a geddon with set of matching range Curators, both using scorch. It's not even close to the numerous midrange boats that'll be competing for limited fleet spots.
You can try fitting tachs with fitting mods to snipe, but again there are better boats for that.
The whole reason to go shield is to pack as much dps as possible, no fc will pick a boat like Apoc that's so severely pre-gimped in dps even before fitting, when there are plenty of qualified competition around.
Try putting a survivable HQ tank on a geddon with a prop mod without going for deadspace. Incursion newbies need to start somewhere, and Napoc is a survivable if not great choice.. |
Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
139
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 10:24:00 -
[19] - Quote
Doctor Ape MD wrote:So as a pilot currently trained primarily in lasers, armor tanking, and amarr hulls, what is a good ship to shoot for to run in incursion armor fleets? My current mission boat is a Navy Apocalypse, and as soon as my current skill plan is finished I plan to either train up to Nightmare, keep going to a Paladin, or start cross training to Gallente or Minmatar hulls. I haven't really decided yet since there are a lot of pros and cons for each choice. for armor fleets, the paladin is a good choice. I'ld suggest a navy geddon: http://jestertrek.blogspot.be/2011/11/fit-of-week-incursion-gni.html Alternatively, you could get a bhaalgorn and play anchor.
If you want to switch the schield fleets, you'll be wanting a nightmare eventually. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
1054
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 18:19:00 -
[20] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:sabre906 wrote:
Shield aside... They won't pick you due to the severely anemic dps of Apoc. That's 600 dps compared to 1.1k of a geddon with set of matching range Curators, both using scorch. It's not even close to the numerous midrange boats that'll be competing for limited fleet spots.
You can try fitting tachs with fitting mods to snipe, but again there are better boats for that.
The whole reason to go shield is to pack as much dps as possible, no fc will pick a boat like Apoc that's so severely pre-gimped in dps even before fitting, when there are plenty of qualified competition around.
Try putting a survivable HQ tank on a geddon with a prop mod without going for deadspace. Incursion newbies need to start somewhere, and Napoc is a survivable if not great choice..
What are you talking about? Apoc has 7 lows, geddon 8. That's one fewer slot for tank, unless you sacrifice a dmg mod, which means even less dps for the Apoc. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
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