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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
None ofthe Above
545
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Posted - 2013.04.30 15:31:00 -
[31] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:None ofthe Above wrote:
The change in the mechanic makes a bit of sense to me, but this part about only spawning enough in high sec to meet 80% of high sec's demand has left me scratching my shiny head.
A little market manipulation too cool the economy a bit, I suppose. Manufacturing is getting a buff; need to offset a bit. Maybe.
Cool? Ice joke in there somewhere.
At first it will heat up, which we are seeing now, but likely to depress POS related activities in the long run. Is this really a good thing? They are simultaneously making POSes easier to use and at the same time making them more costly to maintain. Confusing.
I reiterate my request to Malc, and widen to any CSM7 or 8 Member to look into this, and if the explanation doesn't make sense, talk to the appropriate devs about it. I hope you voted, you glorious but often apathetic bastards! STV working as intended; Pre-elections and Get out the Vote, room for improvement. |
Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
350
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Posted - 2013.04.30 15:42:00 -
[32] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Not only is it visible, but it cuts production drastically. 'Bots are ISK/Hr beasts - If they spend, say, three hours scanning for an Anom, that's a serious hit.
I seriously doubt that CCP would make ice mining require 3 hours of continous scanning to find a belt to ice mine.
If that were true, then no one in their right mind would waste their time to ice mine anymore because it was so unreliable and the only people left were people who figure how how to get their bot program to find the belt.
I mean seriously, would you spend 3 hours looking at the scanner for something that is less profitable than regular mining which is more reliably found.
Hrm.... Of course if I am wrong, then that means no one will ice mine anymore, continuing to make the prices rise, making the POS complaint camp valid after all or at least everyone who hoarded ice very rich. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Haulie Berry
564
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Posted - 2013.04.30 15:49:00 -
[33] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:None ofthe Above wrote:Malcanis wrote:Amarr Citizen65821 wrote:What gives CCP?!!!
Ice has more than doubled in the past week.
If this travesty keep up I will have to tear down all my WH POS becauyse I cannot aford it! So get out there and mine some? Malc, While you are here, can I ask you to look into why CCP decided to do a restriction on the ice minable in high sec for Odyssey? Who thought there was too much ice? That ice was too cheap? Tin foil hat says they are retaliating for the threadnaught and being forced to work on the bad code, making sure POSes truly are a small portion of the community. I figure it's more the usual CCP way of shooting themselves in the foot while looking to the stars, but that's what the CSM is supposed to help with. War on 'Bots. Changes in the mechanic will not significantly reduce supply - prices will rise, but not outrageously. But 'Bots are in for one helluva bad time. Multi-boxers should be able to cope, but the need to find new spawns of ice will mess with the 'Bots fiercely.
This is absolute nonsense. This change will be trivially overcome by bots. Anyone who thinks this change was meant to combat botting is seriously delusional.
The intention of the change was to reduce the quantity of available ice from infinite to less-than-infinite.
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Acac Sunflyier
FLA5HY RED
577
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Posted - 2013.04.30 15:54:00 -
[34] - Quote
Amarr Citizen65821 wrote:What gives CCP?!!!
Ice has more than doubled in the past week.
If this travesty keep up I will have to tear down all my WH POS becauyse I cannot aford it!
The goal has been reached. CCP don't make us wait another decade for a drone overhaul; DRONE OVERHAUL NOW! |
Haulie Berry
564
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Posted - 2013.04.30 15:59:00 -
[35] - Quote
Quote:While you are here, can I ask you to look into why CCP decided to do a restriction on the ice minable in high sec for Odyssey?
Who thought there was too much ice? That ice was too cheap?
Anyone who hasn't been living under a rock? Anyone who has ever done the math on ice isk/hr?
I think better questions would be, "Who DIDN'T think there was too much ice? Who DIDN'T think that ice was too cheap?"
It will be a drastically shorter list. |
Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
958
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Posted - 2013.04.30 16:01:00 -
[36] - Quote
The tinfoilery in here is incredible.
Here's what's going to happen: A bunch of dudes are going to cry rivers and go mine something else or rage quit and we're all going to point and laugh at how dumb they are. Anyone with two braincells will realize that the ice anoms aren't going to be mined out in ten minutes (well, unless you're right next to Jita) and that people like The Wiz aren't going to be able to multi-box like they used to, and that bots are going to be fuckered up by this change, meaning more ice for legit dudes. Ice miners will spread out and we'll eventually see a fairly uniform mining rate across systems with some serious competition near trade hubs, which is as it should be, and dudes will still be able to mine ice, just not AFK and not while doing laundry, which is as it should be. CCP has no sense of humour. |
Friggz
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
107
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Posted - 2013.04.30 16:04:00 -
[37] - Quote
The prices at the moment are a result of speculation, not changes. There hasn't been a change in supply and demand, it's just people buying it and waiting to see the moment before the bubble bursts. Prices will go back down, but won't hit pre-fanfest levels ever again.
The change is basically because CCP wants to make null-sec industry a thing. They want people actually mining in null-sec and producing products in null-sec. That's why null-sec ores have had their yields greatly increased when it comes to the low end minerals normally imported from high-sec. That's why outposts are being buffed to make industry easier. It's also behind the ice changes. That extra 20% that high-sec can't support has to come from somewhere, and it's probably going to be null-sec since it's easier to defend.
Ice had to be moved to anoms. Belts always spawn after downtime, and if ice was in belts it would all be harvested by one timezone before the others had a chance at it. They had to untie it from timezone, and moving it to anoms was a simple way to do it without overhauling the belt spawning rules entirely. The fact that it hurts botter is icing on the cake.
Everytime you vote for Trebor, DNSBlack's Arazu dies. |
Tshaowdyne Dvorak
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
37
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Posted - 2013.04.30 16:11:00 -
[38] - Quote
Danni stark wrote:
i'm convinced miner gankers are like the boogie man.
i've never seen one. it's a story to scare small children.
It depends on where you mine. I gank miners with some regularity (when they can be caught) in wormholes and null:
http://killboard.tdsin.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=4329 http://killboard.tdsin.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=4363 (this was a giant "oops" on one guy's part) http://killboard.tdsin.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=4437 http://killboard.tdsin.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=4629
Of course, I'll gank anything else I get my hands on too. I don't ruin my sec status too badly by ganking in low or high sec, but that may change come the Odyssey expansion where I'll be able to buy my way out of it (assuming the tags are easy enough to come by). |
Haulie Berry
564
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Posted - 2013.04.30 16:16:00 -
[39] - Quote
Quote:...and that bots are going to be fuckered up by this change...
Okay, seriously, why the **** do you people believe this?
Here are the givens:
-The new scanner can be configured to fire on session change, so they don't even have to bot the scan aspect of it (not that that wouldn't be a trivial few minute's worth of coding to overcome). -We know exactly which systems ice anoms will spawn in, so it's not like a bot really even has to go looking for them. -Existing bots are already capable of doing things like warping around.
This basically means the net difficulty added to a botter's life is identifying the correct anomaly to warp to. These are not difficult tasks. I would go so far as to label them the very definition of trivial. The fact that the ice will deplete has no unique detrimental impact on the botter (that particular aspect is felt equally by both legit players and bots).
I'm reasonably certain, in fact, that there are a number of bots that already farm high-sec anomalies for escalations, so there's a pretty good chance that any changes that would need to be made to mining bots already have functional code in the wild that could easily be implemented into a mining bot.
Dealing with bots is a security issue - not a gameplay mechanics issue. It would be EXTREMELY difficult, if not impossible, to devise gameplay mechanics that would be difficult to bot without also being extremely impractical or unpleasant for human players (think CAPTCHAS...IN...SPAAAAACE!).
This will not deter bots, and that's okay. It's not meant to. |
Danni stark
22
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Posted - 2013.04.30 16:18:00 -
[40] - Quote
yeah, null sec kills don't really count for what i was referring to. Yay, this account hasn't had it's signature banned. or it's account, if you're reading this. |
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March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
661
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Posted - 2013.04.30 16:22:00 -
[41] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote: I think better questions would be, "Who DIDN'T think there was too much ice? Who DIDN'T think that ice was too cheap?"
It will be a drastically shorter list.
well it's cool to be smart AFTER ALL HAPPENED.
Link any thread with people speaking "there is too much ICE in Eve Online" please. I've never seen such. Would be interesting. |
Danni stark
22
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Posted - 2013.04.30 16:23:00 -
[42] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Haulie Berry wrote: I think better questions would be, "Who DIDN'T think there was too much ice? Who DIDN'T think that ice was too cheap?"
It will be a drastically shorter list.
well it's cool to be smart AFTER ALL HAPPENED. Link any thread with people speaking "there is too much ICE in Eve Online" please. I've never seen such. Would be interesting.
pretty much every thread that combines "afk" "mining" and "bots" any 2 of the 3 will do. Yay, this account hasn't had it's signature banned. or it's account, if you're reading this. |
Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
958
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Posted - 2013.04.30 16:26:00 -
[43] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:Quote:...and that bots are going to be fuckered up by this change... Okay, seriously, why the **** do you people believe this? Any time game mechanics change a bot programmer has to do some work. That's why I believe my statement. Hence "bots are going to be fuckered up by this change", and I daresay we'll be treated to some delicious tears by Nosy Gamer before the dust settles.
The way scan results are displayed will probably change as well, which means even more programming to be done. Sure, it's not a permanent hit to bots, no one believes that, but the short term will be hilarious.
TL;DR: calm the **** down, no one thinks this change is for bots and no one thinks bots are going away forever. CCP has no sense of humour. |
Tshaowdyne Dvorak
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
37
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Posted - 2013.04.30 16:27:00 -
[44] - Quote
Danni stark wrote:
yeah, null sec kills don't really count for what i was referring to.
You should keep your eyes open after Odyssey, then. If people with negative sec status can just buy tags off of the market and wave it away with a magic wand, you might well be screwed.
You also probably never noticed the giant killboards posted during Hulkageddon events in years past, such as Hulkageddon V. Observe that there are 65,143 kills logged in total for that one. There was a ton of that going on before the buff to tank that mining ships got. According to your Eveboard, you missed out on a lot of it because your character's too young (unless it's an alt of characters that have been around a lot longer). |
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
453
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Posted - 2013.04.30 16:35:00 -
[45] - Quote
Whoa... just checked. They did go up. Think I am gonna break out my ice miners and take advantage of this while I can. *removed inappropriate signature* - CCP Eterne |
March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
662
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Posted - 2013.04.30 16:45:00 -
[46] - Quote
Danni stark wrote:March rabbit wrote:Haulie Berry wrote: I think better questions would be, "Who DIDN'T think there was too much ice? Who DIDN'T think that ice was too cheap?"
It will be a drastically shorter list.
well it's cool to be smart AFTER ALL HAPPENED. Link any thread with people speaking " there is too much ICE in Eve Online" please. I've never seen such. Would be interesting. pretty much every thread that combines "afk" "mining" and "bots" any 2 of the 3 will do. so. any link?
PS: i don't care about bots or afk. i just want to see bolded part |
Haulie Berry
564
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Posted - 2013.04.30 17:05:00 -
[47] - Quote
Quote:Hence "bots are going to be fuckered up by this change"
A lazy sunday afternoon's coding - and I'm being pessimistic about their programming chops, here - is not "fuckered up". That's idiotic.
Some Rando wrote: The way scan results are displayed will probably change as well, which means even more programming to be done.
Unlikely. Bots give zero fucks about the way the UI displays anything. Unless they changed the format of the scan result raw data, they won't even notice. |
None ofthe Above
545
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Posted - 2013.04.30 17:08:00 -
[48] - Quote
March rabbit wrote: so. any link?
PS: i don't care about bots or afk. i just want to see bolded part
Pretty sure I can find you more posts complaining about the costs of running a POS though.
I hope you voted, you glorious but often apathetic bastards! STV working as intended; Pre-elections and Get out the Vote, room for improvement. |
Danni stark
22
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Posted - 2013.04.30 17:14:00 -
[49] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Danni stark wrote:March rabbit wrote:Haulie Berry wrote: I think better questions would be, "Who DIDN'T think there was too much ice? Who DIDN'T think that ice was too cheap?"
It will be a drastically shorter list.
well it's cool to be smart AFTER ALL HAPPENED. Link any thread with people speaking " there is too much ICE in Eve Online" please. I've never seen such. Would be interesting. pretty much every thread that combines "afk" "mining" and "bots" any 2 of the 3 will do. so. any link? PS: i don't care about bots or afk. i just want to see bolded part
depends if you're looking for that exact phase in writing or implication. Yay, this account hasn't had it's signature banned. or it's account, if you're reading this. |
Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
958
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Posted - 2013.04.30 17:16:00 -
[50] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:Quote:Hence "bots are going to be fuckered up by this change" A lazy sunday afternoon's coding - and I'm being pessimistic about their programming chops, here - is not "fuckered up". That's idiotic. Some Rando wrote:The way scan results are displayed will probably change as well, which means even more programming to be done. Unlikely. Bots give zero fucks about the way the UI displays anything. Unless they changed the format of the scan result raw data, they won't even notice.
Never stop being mad. CCP has no sense of humour. |
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DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
967
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Posted - 2013.04.30 17:25:00 -
[51] - Quote
None ofthe Above wrote: Who thought there was too much ice? That ice was too cheap?
CCP Soundwave
An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta theTerminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system'scrashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children' |
Masuka Taredi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
23
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Posted - 2013.04.30 17:26:00 -
[52] - Quote
Amarr Citizen65821 wrote:What gives CCP?!!!
Ice has more than doubled in the past week.
If this travesty keep up I will have to tear down all my WH POS becauyse I cannot aford it!
You mean you don't set aside ANY of the billions you can make in a Wormhole with a solid POS setup?
Really?
REALLY?
I'm sure you can get some change together to buy some more fuel to fund your isk printing wormhole system operation. |
Haulie Berry
564
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Posted - 2013.04.30 17:27:00 -
[53] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Danni stark wrote:March rabbit wrote:Haulie Berry wrote: I think better questions would be, "Who DIDN'T think there was too much ice? Who DIDN'T think that ice was too cheap?"
It will be a drastically shorter list.
well it's cool to be smart AFTER ALL HAPPENED. Link any thread with people speaking " there is too much ICE in Eve Online" please. I've never seen such. Would be interesting. pretty much every thread that combines "afk" "mining" and "bots" any 2 of the 3 will do. so. any link? PS: i don't care about bots or afk. i just want to see bolded part
What you'll generally find is less, "There is too much ICE in Eve Online" and more "Ice mining isn't profitable enough. The former is the cause, the latter is the effect that people actually feel. Ice mining hasn't been profitable enough because ice is oversupplied.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=165612
Plenty more threads just like this one. Also pretty easy to just do the math.
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Haulie Berry
564
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Posted - 2013.04.30 17:28:00 -
[54] - Quote
Some Rando wrote:Haulie Berry wrote:Quote:Hence "bots are going to be fuckered up by this change" A lazy sunday afternoon's coding - and I'm being pessimistic about their programming chops, here - is not "fuckered up". That's idiotic. Some Rando wrote:The way scan results are displayed will probably change as well, which means even more programming to be done. Unlikely. Bots give zero fucks about the way the UI displays anything. Unless they changed the format of the scan result raw data, they won't even notice. Never stop being mad.
Because pointing out that your posts are stupid is the same thing as being mad. |
Velicitia
Nex Exercitus
1438
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Posted - 2013.04.30 17:38:00 -
[55] - Quote
Danni stark wrote:De'Veldrin wrote:Implying Implications wrote:Buy a Retriever and get mining ganked. FYP. i'm convinced miner gankers are like the boogie man. i've never seen one. it's a story to scare small children.
This. They're the Reavers of New Eden. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13971
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Posted - 2013.04.30 17:41:00 -
[56] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:This. They're the Reavers of New Eden. Sporting rather dodgy make-up?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
5615
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Posted - 2013.04.30 17:48:00 -
[57] - Quote
None ofthe Above wrote: The change in the mechanic makes a bit of sense to me, but this part about only spawning enough in high sec to meet 80% of high sec's demand has left me scratching my shiny head.
You're reading it wrong. Highsec will only spawn enough ice to meet 80% of the whole universe's demand. It will spawn roughly 800% of what it needs to meet Highsec's demand. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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Haulie Berry
564
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Posted - 2013.04.30 17:50:00 -
[58] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:None ofthe Above wrote: The change in the mechanic makes a bit of sense to me, but this part about only spawning enough in high sec to meet 80% of high sec's demand has left me scratching my shiny head.
You're reading it wrong. Highsec will only spawn enough ice to meet 80% of the whole universe's demand. It will spawn roughly 800% of what it needs to meet Highsec's demand.
Just for funsies, currently what percentage of the universe's ice consumption is sourced from high sec? |
Danni stark
24
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Posted - 2013.04.30 17:52:00 -
[59] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:None ofthe Above wrote: The change in the mechanic makes a bit of sense to me, but this part about only spawning enough in high sec to meet 80% of high sec's demand has left me scratching my shiny head.
You're reading it wrong. Highsec will only spawn enough ice to meet 80% of the whole universe's demand. It will spawn roughly 800% of what it needs to meet Highsec's demand. Just for funsies, currently what percentage of the universe's ice consumption is sourced from high sec?
at 7m/hour pre speculation, i'm going to say no lower than 90%, would even be tempted to say 95% Yay, this account hasn't had it's signature banned. or it's account, if you're reading this. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
967
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Posted - 2013.04.30 17:53:00 -
[60] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:Quote:...and that bots are going to be fuckered up by this change... It would be EXTREMELY difficult, if not impossible, to devise gameplay mechanics that would be difficult to bot .
Show me a bot in incursions... I've seen a few ISBOXERs do it but they lose 90% of the competitions when we decide to bother with them ( TBH i we found out a bot could do NMC's we'd probably let them so more NCO's & OTA's spawned )
An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta theTerminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system'scrashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children' |
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