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Mike Whiite
Cupid Stunts. Casoff
179
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 12:48:00 -
[31] - Quote
Beast of Revelations wrote:Tauranon wrote:The racial eccm skill - gravimetric sensor compensation or whatever its called is a big help (for a naga). The base sensor str I had on a dominix was 22 if I recall, with the mag compensation skill and 2 eccms, it was 96 or something like that. Bought the skill, training it now. It just says 4% per skill level, so I'm not going to go from a 22 to a 96, but hopefully it will do something at least.
I would advice a diferent ship or ratting, yes it can be done in attack battlecruiser, where they build for it not realy.
Combat Battle cruiser will be much more help. it's paved ground but a Drake with HM will do great, some auto targeting missiles or when you get jamed.
as for the gravimatic compensation skill, it helps a little but it's no garanty, I've that skill to 4 and it gives my Tengu over 40 somthing strenght and I still have times that I'm out of the running for a few minutes.
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Tsukino Stareine
EVE University Ivy League
116
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 12:57:00 -
[32] - Quote
Britta Nolen wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:you warped at 0 into the belt >.>? Doesn't Everyone? Just get a talos, blasters & puts some t2 drones on it, Everything Dies. Naga Fit Blasters x8 Rat specific hardeners x2 LSE x2 Mag stabs x2 TE x2 DC2 rigs purgers x2 shield therm resist 5 T2 Hobgoblins @5's 888 DPS 152 Regen 52k ehp Release drones after the frigs target you. Not before.
Well no, not in gurista space as clearly things like this happen if you warp at 0 and get immediately jammed/scrammed/webbed.
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Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1694
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 13:01:00 -
[33] - Quote
Beast of Revelations wrote: The problem was the ewar, idiot. The problem had nothing to do with 'no tank, large guns, blah blah.'
The fact that you can't see what your doing wrong is exactly the problem.
A better ship would have perma-tanked a BELT RAT spawn. Missiles instead of guns would have given you the FoF option.
But of course, being a know it all (that lost a ship to BELT RATS, the EVE version of kindergarten), go ahead and keep thinking this way, it's your isk you're throwing out the window.
Quote: Let's try this again. I don't care about ships going pop. My ships have gone pop a million times, so have yours, so have everbody elses. I care about ewar.
It's dumb that a ship can just make your ship not be able to do anything. It's a bad mechanic. That's not just my opinion, that's the opinion of many veteran players I've spoken with.
The stupid mechanic needs to be nerfed and changed. It's too absolute. It's like someone pushes a button and all of a sudden you can't fly your ship, and there's nothing you can do to get out of it. To be honest, I haven't spoken to anyone who thinks this is good gameplay.
And yet 10s of thousands of other players have found ways to deal with something you lost a ship to.
THIS IS WHY you belt rat with the proper ship. In Guristas space that means a ship with drones or that can use FoF missles.
You have to be one of the most clueless noobs we've ever seen, and that's saying something for the Missions and Complexes forum lol
Quote: Because being perma-jammed, perma-scrammed, and perma-webbed by a rat = sucking at a video game.
Yes it does. If you knew what you were doing you would have survived like 99.99999% of people who do the same Easy pve activity lol. With drones or FoF missles or over-heated ECCM you could have made it out.
But like sooooo many gamers, you think it's the games fault you screwed up. It's not the game. YOU failed.
Quote: In other words, my not being able to actively do anything at all to save my ship = sucking, haha. Check out the big brain on this guy.
Yet another idiot troll. I have successfully lorded many trolls in my life, but they are numerous on these forums.
Serious question. How old are you? i'd feel bad if you were some teenaged kid, but damn there has to be some explanation for so much fail.
You can consider it trolling if that makes you feel better, but I'm telling you the truth. The problem you had isn't jams and scrams, it's your ignorance of the game coupled with your inability to take personal responsibility.
You lost a ship in one of the dumbest ways possible. You can man up and realize this loss came from how you think, or you can hide behind your pride, learn for better players (liek me, i've NEVER lost a ship to a BELT RAT lol, not a special thing since very few people do) and become a better player yourself.
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Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1694
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 13:18:00 -
[34] - Quote
Beast of Revelations wrote: 'my feedback is that this is a stupid mechanic - fix it'
The thing you're missing is that you don't know enough about the game yet (as evidence by losing a ship to belt rats....) to call anything stupid. If you knew anything about the way the game works you wouldn't have been in a belt with a naga to begin with. The only place for a close range naga with no support in guristas space is an anomaly called "Forsaken Hub".
All of EVE is won or lost before you undock. You use the right ship,the right fit, the right tactics and you figure this all out before hand. You failed to do any of that. Being perma-jammed means you either picked the wrong ship or picked the right ship but the wrong fit.
You'll forgive me if I'm harsh (figure of speech, i don't care what you do lol), but the WORST thing in EVE PVE is a know it all noob who can't see their own mistakes the runs to the forum whining for game changes to a game they obviously don't understand....because they died to BELT RATS LOL.
(the 2nd worse thing is the l33t PVP pilots who think that just because they can pvp they can PVE, which is not true at all...at least we get a good laugh at their expense when their ships go pop in DED 10/10s)
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Beast of Revelations
Hedion University Amarr Empire
26
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Posted - 2013.05.02 13:19:00 -
[35] - Quote
Mike Whiite wrote: I would advice a diferent ship or ratting, yes it can be done in attack battlecruiser, where they build for it not realy.
I understand the advice and appreciate it. But I've already tried other ships and the only thing that cuts it, at least with my current skills, is an attack battlecruiser. So I bought another one.
Not diss'ing your advice or saying you're wrong - you're probably right. I'm just in a specific situation where I've tried many other options and found only one that works for me at this juncture.
Quote:Combat Battle cruiser will be much more help. it's paved ground but a Drake with HM will do great, some auto targeting missiles or when you get jamed.
I have a drake (first ship I tried ratting these guristas with) - it couldn't cut the mustard. That's probably more to do with my skills than the drake, I dunno. But the attack battlecruiser I was using cut through all the rats like melted butter. I earned hundreds of ISK with it. I just ended up running into a situation where I was perma jammed/scrammed/webbed and there was nothing I could do.
Thanks for the advice though. |
Tsukino Stareine
EVE University Ivy League
116
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 13:31:00 -
[36] - Quote
I earn hundreds of isk as well with my thrasher ratting in low sec belts.
No wait, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS, sometimes millions! |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1333
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 14:14:00 -
[37] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:I earn hundreds of isk as well with my thrasher ratting in low sec belts.
No wait, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS, sometimes millions!
Even more come summer. |
Beast of Revelations
Hedion University Amarr Empire
26
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 14:35:00 -
[38] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:I earn hundreds of isk as well with my thrasher ratting in low sec belts.
No wait, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS, sometimes millions!
Whoops, I actually meant to say hundreds of millions. Probably made 300-400mil over a couple week period. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
602
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 14:44:00 -
[39] - Quote
This thread delivers. |
Beast of Revelations
Hedion University Amarr Empire
26
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 20:02:00 -
[40] - Quote
Was just told by a serious vet that this was the most unlucky incident he's ever heard of. He's ratted for years and never seen nor heard of what I described.
So chalk it up to an unlucky fluke. But either way I still say the jamming mechanic needs looking at. |
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Tsukino Stareine
EVE University Ivy League
117
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 21:42:00 -
[41] - Quote
You warped at 0 in a drone-less, missile-less, short-range boat in a NPC controlled area well-known for their jamming capabilities
I'd say less unlucky, more silly. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
1048
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 21:44:00 -
[42] - Quote
Beast of Revelations wrote:Was just told by a serious vet that this was the most unlucky incident he's ever heard of. He's ratted for years and never seen nor heard of what I described.
So chalk it up to an unlucky fluke. But either way I still say the jamming mechanic needs looking at.
Yes, unlucky fluke. So you just keep flying your large gun naga with no drones and shoot these orbiting scramming frigs.
Some ppl refuse to be helped. But hey, it's no skin off our backs. These aren't our lol lms.
Tsukino Stareine wrote:You warped at 0 in a drone-less, missile-less, short-range boat in a NPC controlled area well-known for their jamming capabilities
I'd say less unlucky, more silly.
The odd belt rats can't permajam him. These aren't missions or sites, there aren't enough ecm rats in a belt to permajam even a marauder. Jamming wasn't what killed him. His Blaster Naga with TEs, no TC, and no web can't hit the orbiting frigs that he warped to zero on, and Guristas BS rat orbits outside blaster range. The lol ecm whine was just there as an expression of tears and rage. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Beast of Revelations
Hedion University Amarr Empire
26
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 06:47:00 -
[43] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:The odd belt rats can't permajam him. These aren't missions or sites, there aren't enough ecm rats in a belt to permajam even a marauder. Jamming wasn't what killed him. His Blaster Naga with TEs, no TC, and no web can't hit the orbiting frigs that he warped to zero on, and Guristas BS rat orbits outside blaster range. The lol ecm whine was just there as an expression of tears and rage.
I'm telling you, it was the ewar. I was not only perma-jammed from the second I warped in (even had one eccm module fitted), I was also perma-scrammed and perma-webbed. There was never a let-up until I was dead.
I even messaged a friend who was in game, and asked if he was nearby and could he warp in to help. He wasn't nearby, so it was over 5 minutes (probably more like 10) of me sitting there telling him what was happening as it was happening.
I didn't know this was possible either, until I found out the hard way. I challenge a dev to come in here and say this didn't happen or couldn't happen. |
Tsukino Stareine
EVE University Ivy League
117
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 11:16:00 -
[44] - Quote
I think I may have found out what happened. Some very funny person (possibly corpmate) was sitting in a falcon and jammed you while you were fighting. |
Britta Nolen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 11:44:00 -
[45] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Well no, not in gurista space as clearly things like this happen if you warp at 0 and get immediately jammed/scrammed/webbed.
Worked in Venal belts.... but then, i also dual boxed and didn't bother targetting frigs. |
Karig'Ano Keikira
State War Academy Caldari State
33
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 12:15:00 -
[46] - Quote
keep following in mind: - only NPC frigs scram and web - NPC bs jams > cruiser jams > ..., however their elite cruisers and normal cruisers seem to be especially jam happy; never saw their BC jam, and jamming battleships are not very common - they do have some sort limited of range with jams, however they have very long range, much above typical combat range - you can warp in reasonably far and they don't aggro immediately, so you can pop frigs from range - always pop frigs first unless you have very good reason not to (using torps comes to mind) - keep damage types in mind, basically against guristas putting kin and thermal hardeners should give you enough survivability to keep your tank up indefinitely (if you go to rat, no reason not to be able to tank them indefinitely) - don't expect your large weapons to do much good in close range against frigs - if you use attack BC, use mwd and don't warp in to 0, burn away from rats and you should be able to pop frigs while they are at range and burning toward you (their sig does get inflated from mwd and they won't bother keeping angular velocity toward you) - train up jam resistance skill, it might help a bit - hm... that is pretty much it
as for 'fun' of being permajammed: - yea, it is not fun or fair, I guess it was never designed to be fun or fair either (more realistically devs didn't think about it for a while, otherwise they would put in different mechanic in place) - if they annoy you too much, don't bother with guristas, no other NPCs jam; personally I recommend serpentics - having alt helps, they tend to focus on one char |
hellcane
Never Back Down
4
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 13:02:00 -
[47] - Quote
I like this guy's use of logic.
If I go fishing with a kiddie pole in the ocean, and don't catch anything....it's the ocean's fault. If I go to a drag strip with a minivan, and lose...it's the track's fault. and so on |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1716
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 13:18:00 -
[48] - Quote
hellcane wrote:I like this guy's use of logic.
If I go fishing with a kiddie pole in the ocean, and don't catch anything....it's the ocean's fault. If I go to a drag strip with a minivan, and lose...it's the track's fault. and so on
Pretty much nail on the head here.
Some of us have tried explaining to the poster that his problem was his ignorance of the game coupled with bad choices based on that ignorance. What we got in return is "no, it's the jamming". I think must of us have agreed to just let him continue to lose ships to Belt Rats :) .
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Beast of Revelations
Hedion University Amarr Empire
26
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 15:48:00 -
[49] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:I think I may have found out what happened. Some very funny person (possibly corpmate) was sitting in a falcon and jammed you while you were fighting.
Ha ha, I hadn't considered this. You know, as crazy as it sounds... the explanation does fit the evidence rather well.
Perhaps there's a 'comedian' in my midst. |
Beast of Revelations
Hedion University Amarr Empire
26
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 15:51:00 -
[50] - Quote
Karig'Ano Keikira wrote:keep following in mind: - only NPC frigs scram and web - NPC bs jams > cruiser jams > ..., however their elite cruisers and normal cruisers seem to be especially jam happy; never saw their BC jam, and jamming battleships are not very common - they do have some sort limited of range with jams, however they have very long range, much above typical combat range - you can warp in reasonably far and they don't aggro immediately, so you can pop frigs from range - always pop frigs first unless you have very good reason not to (using torps comes to mind) - keep damage types in mind, basically against guristas putting kin and thermal hardeners should give you enough survivability to keep your tank up indefinitely (if you go to rat, no reason not to be able to tank them indefinitely) - don't expect your large weapons to do much good in close range against frigs - if you use attack BC, use mwd and don't warp in to 0, burn away from rats and you should be able to pop frigs while they are at range and burning toward you (their sig does get inflated from mwd and they won't bother keeping angular velocity toward you) - train up jam resistance skill, it might help a bit - hm... that is pretty much it
as for 'fun' of being permajammed: - yea, it is not fun or fair, I guess it was never designed to be fun or fair either (more realistically devs didn't think about it for a while, otherwise they would put in different mechanic in place) - if they annoy you too much, don't bother with guristas, no other NPCs jam; personally I recommend serpentics - having alt helps, they tend to focus on one char
Good info here - thanks. What I've been doing since the incident is jumping in with a frig killer, killing the frigs, then jumping out to switch to something more heavy duty. However, it severely cuts into my isk/hour, and I'm also worried about a frig respawn while I'm switching ships.
Perhaps something like a Talos, which has a drone bay, might be useful. |
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Din Chao
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
226
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 16:41:00 -
[51] - Quote
Well, you're two weeks old, so you should have the skills to fly a BC with large guns effectively... |
Beast of Revelations
Hedion University Amarr Empire
26
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 10:59:00 -
[52] - Quote
Din Chao wrote:Well, you're two weeks old, so you should have the skills to fly a BC with large guns effectively...
That's what I keep trying to tell these people, but they won't listen.
That was a joke, heh. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
483
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 10:15:00 -
[53] - Quote
drop light drones, set them to agressive, wait a minute and you're done with jamming/scramming/webbing frigs. If you go ratting with a Tier 3 BS which cant support a drone bay to avoid more expensive BS losses if caught during ratting, you purposely traded that risk to eventually dying to rats. |
Roxy Heart
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 13:39:00 -
[54] - Quote
I also fell into the noob trap of trying to belt rat in an anomoly running blaster naga. There wasn't a rat ECM boat but I had no chance against the frigates as they spawned so close and I simply could not hit. ECM is not the issue.
My tank did not come close to failing. My only concern was that local intel channels started to report a hostile gang a couple jumps out. I was stuck for about 15 mins while a corp mate relogged to an alt, JC'd near my system, fitted a frig killing ship and made the 3 or so jumps to help me out.
Since the embarassing event I have not attempted to get my square peg ( Naga ) into any round holes (Belts). |
Radhe Amatin
Caldari High Prime SpaceMonkey's Alliance
18
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 11:33:00 -
[55] - Quote
Roxy Heart wrote:I also fell into the noob trap of trying to belt rat in an anomoly running blaster naga. There wasn't a rat ECM boat but I had no chance against the frigates as they spawned so close and I simply could not hit. ECM is not the issue.
My tank did not come close to failing. My only concern was that local intel channels started to report a hostile gang a couple jumps out. I was stuck for about 15 mins while a corp mate relogged to an alt, JC'd near my system, fitted a frig killing ship and made the 3 or so jumps to help me out.
Since the embarassing event I have not attempted to get my square peg ( Naga ) into any round holes (Belts).
lol ....... i never had any problems with belt ratting....frigs go bang in 1 volley (normal and elites alike), u just need to align to reduce transversal...... if frigs orbit at 12 -16 KM hit align and ab to them they`ll break orbit and try to gain orbit range on u and will fly in a straight line....when angular velocity drops under 0.01 on your overview hit F1 and they go boom. If frigs are orbiting close hit keep at distance (your max falloff range ) and hit ab.... this time they`ll break orbit and try to catch up to you and they`ll fallow u in a straight line and again as stated wait then boom.
You can also align manually .... if u can judge the direction of the npc are moving....might need to use tactical view.
And off course if u are not comfortable with any of this...as u warp in on the belt and u see frigs or elite frigs to close hit warp to a celestial u`ll have time to warp out, and come again at ur desired range. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1749
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 12:21:00 -
[56] - Quote
Radhe Amatin wrote:Roxy Heart wrote:I also fell into the noob trap of trying to belt rat in an anomoly running blaster naga. There wasn't a rat ECM boat but I had no chance against the frigates as they spawned so close and I simply could not hit. ECM is not the issue.
My tank did not come close to failing. My only concern was that local intel channels started to report a hostile gang a couple jumps out. I was stuck for about 15 mins while a corp mate relogged to an alt, JC'd near my system, fitted a frig killing ship and made the 3 or so jumps to help me out.
Since the embarassing event I have not attempted to get my square peg ( Naga ) into any round holes (Belts). lol ....... i never had any problems with belt ratting....frigs go bang in 1 volley (normal and elites alike), u just need to align to reduce transversal...... if frigs orbit at 12 -16 KM hit align and ab to them they`ll break orbit and try to gain orbit range on u and will fly in a straight line....when angular velocity drops under 0.01 on your overview hit F1 and they go boom. If frigs are orbiting close hit keep at distance (your max falloff range ) and hit ab.... this time they`ll break orbit and try to catch up to you and they`ll fallow u in a straight line and again as stated wait then boom. You can also align manually .... if u can judge the direction of the npc are moving....might need to use tactical view. And off course if u are not comfortable with any of this...as u warp in on the belt and u see frigs or elite frigs to close hit warp to a celestial u`ll have time to warp out, and come again at ur desired range.
Most naga ratters don't haven afterbuners on because that takes up a mid slot on a ship that already has a paper thin tank. While the tactics you mention do work, a pilot with low gunnery skills are still going to have a hell of a time even with 0 or near zero transveral.
So much easier to just use the right ship. If a player wants to rat in belts with a Tier3 BC, he should be using a Talos.
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Ifly Uwalk
Empire Tax Collection Agency
725
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 12:35:00 -
[57] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:So much easier to just use the right ship. ^ This.
I honestly don't understand what's so difficult about this. I literally do not understand it. |
B0XzZ
Pulse Heavy Industries
7
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 03:53:00 -
[58] - Quote
This thread is win / |
Osiris Andras
Intergalactic Space Maoris
7
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 05:58:00 -
[59] - Quote
Sigh... Oh OP your stupidity astounds.
Nobody is saying guristas ewar is fun, because it is honestly some of the most frustrating **** I have ever encountered in a game...
BUT
You HAVE to understand that not being able to perma-tank or ECM the rats was YOUR failure, not the game mechanics. Sure, you might not need to be able to perma-tank or ECM non-jamming rats, but for Guristas, that's something you have to factor in.
Would you take a knife to a gun fight? Would you try run a level 4 mission in a BC with 2 weeks worth of skills? Would you try to belt rat guristas without a ship cabable of perma-tank or ECM or both?
Any sane person would answer a big ol' fat NO to all of the above. You I suspect are not sane, as evidenced by your volitility and inability to understand you are the one at fault here, not a game mechanic.
I have been scram/web/target jammed solid for 15minutes when I was learning L4 missions. But because I coud run my tank indefinately, a window eventually opened where I was able to warp out and come back with friends/warp in to sniping range, etc. If you warp in at sniping range you should be able to insta-pop a jamming frigate then warp out again before the scramming frigates reach you |
Radhe Amatin
Caldari High Prime SpaceMonkey's Alliance
18
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 07:23:00 -
[60] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Radhe Amatin wrote:Roxy Heart wrote:I also fell into the noob trap of trying to belt rat in an anomoly running blaster naga. There wasn't a rat ECM boat but I had no chance against the frigates as they spawned so close and I simply could not hit. ECM is not the issue.
My tank did not come close to failing. My only concern was that local intel channels started to report a hostile gang a couple jumps out. I was stuck for about 15 mins while a corp mate relogged to an alt, JC'd near my system, fitted a frig killing ship and made the 3 or so jumps to help me out.
Since the embarassing event I have not attempted to get my square peg ( Naga ) into any round holes (Belts). lol ....... i never had any problems with belt ratting....frigs go bang in 1 volley (normal and elites alike), u just need to align to reduce transversal...... if frigs orbit at 12 -16 KM hit align and ab to them they`ll break orbit and try to gain orbit range on u and will fly in a straight line....when angular velocity drops under 0.01 on your overview hit F1 and they go boom. If frigs are orbiting close hit keep at distance (your max falloff range ) and hit ab.... this time they`ll break orbit and try to catch up to you and they`ll fallow u in a straight line and again as stated wait then boom. You can also align manually .... if u can judge the direction of the npc are moving....might need to use tactical view. And off course if u are not comfortable with any of this...as u warp in on the belt and u see frigs or elite frigs to close hit warp to a celestial u`ll have time to warp out, and come again at ur desired range. Most naga ratters don't haven afterbuners on because that takes up a mid slot on a ship that already has a paper thin tank. While the tactics you mention do work, a pilot with low gunnery skills are still going to have a hell of a time even with 0 or near zero transveral. So much easier to just use the right ship. If a player wants to rat in belts with a Tier3 BC, he should be using a Talos.
I agree Talos works better for belt ratting.... 5 drones help a lot..... but still naga its not as paper thin as u think.... i run forsaken hubs in a naga with meta 4 blasters with no problem..... shields barely go below 60% and that's if i'm not paying attention. Or he can use this......What i use for belt ratting when i do it Highs. 8x Modal Mega Neutron Particle Accelerator Caldari Navy Antimatter (If u can ,use T2 neutron) Meds. 1x AB t2(i use a faction one more speed) 2x LSE t2 2x Kinetic Hardeners T2 1x Dread Guristas Stasis Web (U can use t2 i just got mine from a drop) Lows. 3x Magnetic Field Stabilizer Rigs. 1x Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I(u can drop this for a Burst Aerator if u like or another Core Defense Field Extender) 2x Core Defense Field Extenders Should be able to tank more then the belt rats can dish out in dps... dishes out 950 dps at 6 optimal 13 km falloff..dmg projection is all most full on cruisers BCs BS's because of the web. I use this fit when i belt rat as well.....but in the systems i rat in there are hardly any scram web frigs in belts. |
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