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EliteProspector
Death Squad REVENGE
2
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Posted - 2013.05.02 12:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
I realize this has probably been discussed before, but I'm having a hard time finding it: Is there a source listing how many of each t2 bpo CCP gave out during the t2 bpo lottery?
Surprisingly there are no articles about the bpo lottery on eve wiki or evelopedia. I would also like to know how long the lottery lasted, detailed mechanics of how it worked, and if there is a list of t2 bpos that have been destroyed (transport kills, banned accounts, etc) The list of how many original releases is most the most important thing though.
Thanks!
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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
5920
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Posted - 2013.05.02 13:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
This would be interesting to know, and maybe someone has the answer.
But in 3 years and countless threads about this I've never seen any figures. -áGÇ£The world is a stage, but the play is badly cast.GÇ¥-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
Ishaki
Caldari Prime Investments
1
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Posted - 2013.05.02 15:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
That ended like 7 or 8 years ago which predates any official wiki. There may be something in an old dev blog or in the old forums but those would be the only places that would most likely be if it was made public at all. |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1290
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Posted - 2013.05.02 17:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
I detect another round of "Get rid of all T2 BPOs!!!" incoming... "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
1779
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Posted - 2013.05.02 17:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
There is no official accounting of T2 BPO awarded or still in circulation.
Probably because it doesn't matter. |
Pisov viet
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
118
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Posted - 2013.05.02 18:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:There is no official accounting of T2 BPO awarded or still in circulation.
Probably because it doesn't matter. Say that to command ships. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
1782
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Posted - 2013.05.02 19:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
Pisov viet wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:There is no official accounting of T2 BPO awarded or still in circulation.
Probably because it doesn't matter. Say that to command ships. No problem. I'll state it unequivocally for any other item too.
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Pisov viet
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
118
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Posted - 2013.05.02 21:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Pisov viet wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:There is no official accounting of T2 BPO awarded or still in circulation.
Probably because it doesn't matter. Say that to command ships. No problem. I'll state it unequivocally for any other item too. Like the rook? Or the curse? Or the cerberus, the eagle?
Oh, right, these are no true T2 items, I suppose. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1371
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Posted - 2013.05.02 23:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
Pisov viet wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:Pisov viet wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:There is no official accounting of T2 BPO awarded or still in circulation.
Probably because it doesn't matter. Say that to command ships. No problem. I'll state it unequivocally for any other item too. Like the rook? Or the curse? Or the cerberus, the eagle? Oh, right, these are no true T2 items, I suppose.
They /don't/ matter for those items.
Sure, they could be said to be distorting the market, by making it unprofitable to make them using invention.
However, there is one reason, and one reason alone they can.
The markets pretty much don't exist. If they did, BPOs wouldn't be enough to supply them, so the price would rise to the point where people could make a profit with invention. That's just supply and demand for you.
And it's not like anyone is being forced to make them at a loss. Only people who would are the same kind of people who would make a Drake at a loss. People who don't do their research first. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3301
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Posted - 2013.05.03 00:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
Pisov viet wrote:Say that to command ships.
Astartes are currently profitable to invent with Collision Measurements, as are Eoses. Absolutions with Formation Layouts, though not Damnations. Vultures with Tuning instructions, but not Nighthawks. Sleipnirs with Calibration Data, but not Claymores.
Literally all your Tier 1 BC BPCs can be invented profitably into command ships.
Pisov viet wrote: Like the rook? Or the curse? Or the cerberus, the eagle?
Oh, right, these are no true T2 items, I suppose.
Look at Expanded Cargohold IIs. Per CCP Diagoras, something like 80% of them are produced by T2 BPOs. They're currently profitably to Invent/Manufacture because of that 20% of demand that BPOs cannot ever fill.
Only when the quantity demanded is entirely filled by potential BPO production does invention take a hit. And then anyone with any part of a functioning brain simply doesn't invent those things. Use your Moa BPCs to make Onyxes, your Cyclone BPCs to make Sleipnirs, Blackbird BPCs to make Falcons, and your Arbitrator BPCs to make Pilgrims. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
1783
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Posted - 2013.05.03 01:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:The markets pretty much don't exist. If they did, BPOs wouldn't be enough to supply them, so the price would rise to the point where people could make a profit with invention. That's just supply and demand for you.
And it's not like anyone is being forced to make them at a loss. Only people who would are the same kind of people who would make a Drake at a loss. People who don't do their research first.
RubyPorto wrote:Only when the quantity demanded is entirely filled by potential BPO production does invention take a hit. And then anyone with any part of a functioning brain simply doesn't invent those things. Thank you Steve Ronuken and RubyPorto.
Some additional food for thought. Consider the three groups that were only touched upon above:
Group 1: For some reason, some people feel they have a right to a profit making whatever they want to make. They completely ignore the needs of the market (often driving down prices in the process), then come into this forum and complain that the world doesn't spin in their preferred direction.
Group 2: Then there is also the "it's a game crowd". They've posted in this forum that they don't care about making profits, because they just like building stuff. They are almost like the "Minerals I Mine Are Free" (MIMAF) crowd, except they do know what they are doing, but they just don't care. They don't put a value on their time.
Group 3: Lastly there is the MIMAF crowd. I like to think they simply don't know better, unlike group 2.
Now add the above groups into the mix that Steve Ronuken and RubyPorto mentioned. Start with an item that has such low demand that the few existing T2 BPO meet most of it, then add in manufacturers that sell below invention cost. There is no room in that market for additional manufacturers seeking to make a profit!
An advantage for the T2 BPO holders? Possibly as they are the only ones earning any ISK, but they have very limited-by-BPO production capability, and quite a large amount of opportunity cost (many billions). I am personally thankful that they help keep prices down on low demand items. I'd sell the T2 BPO and use the ISK to invest in inventing T2 items the market wants to buy a lot of at a respectable profit.
Finally I'll mention that everybody and their grandmother thinks ship manufacturing is sexy. That's a lot of competitors which further reduces profit margins, and leads to endless 0.01 ISK battles in trade hubs.
The more you know... |
Huttan Funaila
Terminal Radioactivity
175
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Posted - 2013.05.03 14:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
CCP Diagoras used to post statistics, some of which were "how many of T2 item X were made via invention". One of the industrialist bloggers compiled them into a table and posted an analysis of what sort of returns you can make on your "investment". You can see from the list that popularity of the ship makes a massive difference in how many the market needs (when was the last time you saw an interdictor). Just looking at heavy assault cruisers, the eagle appears to be unpopular enough that almost all of the supply of that ship can be met with T2 bpos. While other HACs - ishtar and zealot - have so much larger markets that 2/3 of those ships are made through invention. |
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
611
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Posted - 2013.05.03 18:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:The markets pretty much don't exist. If they did, BPOs wouldn't be enough to supply them, so the price would rise to the point where people could make a profit with invention. That's just supply and demand for you.
And it's not like anyone is being forced to make them at a loss. Only people who would are the same kind of people who would make a Drake at a loss. People who don't do their research first. RubyPorto wrote:Only when the quantity demanded is entirely filled by potential BPO production does invention take a hit. And then anyone with any part of a functioning brain simply doesn't invent those things. Thank you Steve Ronuken and RubyPorto. Some additional food for thought. Consider the three groups that were only touched upon above: Group 1: For some reason, some people feel they have a right to a profit making whatever they want to make. They completely ignore the needs of the market (often driving down prices in the process), then come into this forum and complain that the world doesn't spin in their preferred direction. Group 2: Then there is also the "it's a game crowd". They've posted in this forum that they don't care about making profits, because they just like building stuff. They are almost like the "Minerals I Mine Are Free" (MIMAF) crowd, except they do know what they are doing, but they just don't care. They don't put a value on their time. Group 3: Lastly there is the MIMAF crowd. I like to think they simply don't know better, unlike group 2. Now add the above groups into the mix that Steve Ronuken and RubyPorto mentioned. Start with an item that has such low demand that the few existing T2 BPO meet most of it, then add in manufacturers that sell below a profitable invention cost. There is no room in that market for additional manufacturers seeking to make a profit! An advantage for the T2 BPO holders? Possibly as they are the only ones earning any ISK, but they have very limited-by-BPO production capability, and quite a large amount of opportunity cost (many billions). I am personally thankful that they help keep prices down on low demand items. I'd sell the T2 BPO and use the ISK to invest in inventing T2 items the market wants to buy a lot of at a respectable profit. Finally I'll mention that everybody and their grandmother thinks ship manufacturing is sexy. That's a lot of competitors which further reduces profit margins, and leads to endless 0.01 ISK battles in trade hubs. The more you know...
and there's group 4 that wants to invent underpants because, you know, no underpants no profit. |
Isonda
suspended animations DOT None Of The Above
4
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Posted - 2013.05.03 20:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
The numbers are not known. Part of the roblem with a lot of items there are T2 versions of, are that the Meta 4 T1 version is better.. Making the T2 item worthless.
Another issue is that manufacturing time on ALL none cap modules, T1 and T2 should be increased by 100% |
Felsusguy
Bojo's School of the Trades
124
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Posted - 2013.05.05 04:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
Isonda wrote:Another issue is that manufacturing time on ALL none cap modules, T1 and T2 should be increased by 100% No. How droll. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3311
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Posted - 2013.05.05 20:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
Isonda wrote:Another issue is that manufacturing time on ALL none cap modules, T1 and T2 should be increased by 100%
Why in the world... This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Sabre Rolf
Republic University Minmatar Republic
13
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Posted - 2013.05.05 20:59:00 -
[17] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Isonda wrote:Another issue is that manufacturing time on ALL none cap modules, T1 and T2 should be increased by 100% Why in the world...
to decrease oversupply. on a long term it would probably not change much for the individual, but would allow more ppl to produce with profit. |
Isonda
suspended animations DOT None Of The Above
5
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Posted - 2013.05.05 21:24:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sabre Rolf wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Isonda wrote:Another issue is that manufacturing time on ALL none cap modules, T1 and T2 should be increased by 100% Why in the world... to decrease oversupply. on a long term it would probably not change much for the individual, but would allow more ppl to produce with profit.
A lot of the T2 mods are in so low volume that a hand full of people can suply all of eve. Increase production time so you can make max 1500 modules a month rather than 3000.. Would solve a lot, and add dynamics. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3311
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Posted - 2013.05.05 22:57:00 -
[19] - Quote
Isonda wrote:Sabre Rolf wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Isonda wrote:Another issue is that manufacturing time on ALL none cap modules, T1 and T2 should be increased by 100% Why in the world... to decrease oversupply. on a long term it would probably not change much for the individual, but would allow more ppl to produce with profit. A lot of the T2 mods are in so low volume that a hand full of people can suply all of eve. Increase production time so you can make max 1500 modules a month rather than 3000.. Would solve a lot, and add dynamics.
What problem, specifically, would it solve? What kind of "dynamics," specifically, would it introduce?
A lot of T2 modules are not in that low demand. Build more popular modules. "Problem" solved.
There's plenty of room for profitable T2 manufacturing of modules. Just don't be terrible at market research and you'll do fine. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1380
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Posted - 2013.05.05 23:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Isonda wrote:Sabre Rolf wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Isonda wrote:Another issue is that manufacturing time on ALL none cap modules, T1 and T2 should be increased by 100% Why in the world... to decrease oversupply. on a long term it would probably not change much for the individual, but would allow more ppl to produce with profit. A lot of the T2 mods are in so low volume that a hand full of people can suply all of eve. Increase production time so you can make max 1500 modules a month rather than 3000.. Would solve a lot, and add dynamics. What problem, specifically, would it solve? What kind of "dynamics," specifically, would it introduce? A lot of T2 modules are not in that low demand. Build more popular modules. "Problem" solved. There's plenty of room for profitable T2 manufacturing of modules. Just don't be terrible at market research and you'll do fine. ^This.
Aside from that, do you really want to boost prices that much? I mean, if I can't make an appropriate profit, I'll raise my prices till I can. And my margins aren't based just off what the materials cost. They're also based off the time it takes me to make things. (The fabled isk/hr). Increase the build time, increase the price. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
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