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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Zimmy Zeta
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
17467
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Posted - 2013.05.03 18:06:00 -
[61] - Quote
I understand the reasoning behind those prices. Since I usually don't fly Battleships very often I do not care very much, personally. But my problem is that the increase in BS cost might draw even more players towards the still ridiculously overpowered and widely loathed tier 3 Battlecruisers. Is there any plan to increase their cost, too? I don't want to play Oracle Online... Just think of how bad an average post by me is, and then realize half of them are even worse |
Manny Moons
New Order Logistics CODE.
78
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Posted - 2013.05.03 18:08:00 -
[62] - Quote
progodlegend wrote:Manny Moons wrote:Just look at the lowly Procurer. Current build cost is about 21 million isk. You can buy one in Jita for 9 million. Platinum insurance payout is 2,043,391. That pretty much sums up the problem with "Extra Materials". I think it more exhibits a problem with the usefulness of the procurer if demand is so low that people aren't even bothering to build it. Clearly there were huge quantities stockpiled prior to the barge buff, and the relatively low demand will take a long time to absorb them. But it's the extra materials that are responsible for the current disparity. If you could scrap Procurers for anything close to their build cost, there would be no glut.
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Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
137
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Posted - 2013.05.03 18:08:00 -
[63] - Quote
Zimmy Zeta wrote:I understand the reasoning behind those prices. Since I usually don't fly Battleships very often I do not care very much, personally. But my problem is that the increase in BS cost might draw even more players towards the still ridiculously overpowered and widely loathed tier 3 Battlecruisers. Is there any plan to increase their cost, too? I don't want to play Oracle Online...
If only they made ABC's T2 hulls then they would be more expensive and better balanced..... mm... 'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place..... where is the TD missile change?-á ,...projectiles should use capacitor. |
Esharan
Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels
34
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Posted - 2013.05.03 18:09:00 -
[64] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:CCP Rise wrote:EVE players are making money faster and faster Not me. Pretty limited with 1 account, no high sec access and no interest in T3s.
Yah wicked generalization. I don't make isk fast at all, eve isn't about making isk to me its about pew - I think ships should be cheaper not more xpensive so I can shoot things more.
Seriously.
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Skia Aumer
Atlas Research Group
13
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Posted - 2013.05.03 18:19:00 -
[65] - Quote
Destoya wrote:iskflakes wrote:If it isn't obvious, I suggest everybody go and buy as many battleships now as you can. You may not be able to reprocess them, but after the patch the prices will be 40m higher. You aren't wrong, but there's still a ton of people selling off tier one bc's and procurers for something like 50% of build cost; it takes a while for all the stockpiles to run out This time it's even more complicated. They are changing mining yields, which may or may not lead to decrease of mineral prices - thus annihilating a large portion of future profits. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
226
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Posted - 2013.05.03 18:19:00 -
[66] - Quote
Grarr Dexx wrote:People aren't making money faster. OTEC is skewing the values on that graph. This increase in build cost will further reduce battleship usage, even with the buffs they have coming.
Calling them attack battleships and reducing their HP isn't exactly a buff. |
Avald Midular
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
82
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Posted - 2013.05.03 18:20:00 -
[67] - Quote
CCP Rise -
I notice your'e actively giving feedback in this thread but have largely forgotten the T1 BS threads. Is feedback largely done in those threads because players are still actively discussing in them and would like a back and forth if you have the time. |
Karig'Ano Keikira
State War Academy Caldari State
34
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Posted - 2013.05.03 18:26:00 -
[68] - Quote
cannot shake off feeling that battleships got short end of stick in entire tiericide - for most, increase in performance is suspicious at best, entire attack battleship class is dubious compared to attack battlecruisers (cmon, who really needs attack ship with 3 - 4 times the price tag that does less damage and has much lower mobility (ok, more tank, but not like selling point of attack ships is tank)) and their cost-efficiency was problematic even before price increase |
Skia Aumer
Atlas Research Group
13
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Posted - 2013.05.03 18:28:00 -
[69] - Quote
And yes, I think that makes attack battlecruisers even more OP. Cut their turrets already, would you. |
Soon Shin
Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost
218
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Posted - 2013.05.03 18:28:00 -
[70] - Quote
With Battleships costing 200+ million for all of them, I'm going to have a hard time justifying flying these niche ships over cheaper and more general purpose battlecruisers which are 3 times cheaper with the hull costs.
Factoring Rig and module costs it will be far far far more cheaper to use battlecruisers than battleships.
I understand your reasoning, but this will definately hurt the usage of battleships.
Battleships have a fairly limited role in today's battles.
Just like ship and tanks of Real life; big size, lack of mobility, and high costs are what killed Battleships and Heavy tanks.
That same will happen to Battleships in EVE. |
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DeadRow
Utopian Research I.E.L. Suddenly Spaceships.
102
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Posted - 2013.05.03 18:30:00 -
[71] - Quote
*Sigh* and I was looking forward to flying these ships.
Nevermind.
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Hagika
LEGI0N
71
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Posted - 2013.05.03 18:33:00 -
[72] - Quote
Had a long response but the draft system screwed it up yet again, so I will make it simple and short.
The cost increase done by CCP will not be the actual total increase. With changes of the ships, the market is still controlled by the players for the most part and so the increase will be even more than what you intended.
I really wish you all would look into all aspects of changes before you implement them in game.
Also with the addition of new ships to the game will add even more problems and balances when there are so many issues that have been on going for years, yet adding more on top will just continue to get the old issues ignore for even more time.
Medium rails for example? Also the blanket resist nerf to ships is a very poor and not thought out nerf.
Not only that but the community has overwhelmingly spoken out against it and provided many alternatives to the nerf, yet they go unanswered.
This cost increase to battleships is detrimental the game and to the players who continue to find their pvp fix in smaller hulls. A battleship is not worth more than 2 tier 3 battlecruisers and not really worth more than 3 tier 1 and 2 battle cruisers.
Especially not poorly changed raven. |
Nex apparatu5
Friendship is Podding Test Alliance Please Ignore
508
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Posted - 2013.05.03 18:33:00 -
[73] - Quote
To everyone who is complaining that the price makes battleships somehow "worse", I have news for you: price isn't a balancing factor. hth. |
Hagika
LEGI0N
71
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Posted - 2013.05.03 18:38:00 -
[74] - Quote
Avald Midular wrote:CCP Rise -
I notice your'e actively giving feedback in this thread but have largely forgotten the T1 BS threads. Is feedback largely done in those threads because players are still actively discussing in them and would like a back and forth if you have the time.
Its a done deal bro, that are setting it in stone and are going to ignore the more experienced player base.
Maybe the fixes will come in another few years. Until then we get glorious price increases with ships that are not even close to the value of cost.
Government knows best right? Errr CCP.
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Grarr Dexx
Snuff Box Urine Alliance
40
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Posted - 2013.05.03 18:39:00 -
[75] - Quote
Nex apparatu5 wrote:To everyone who is complaining that the price makes battleships somehow "worse", I have news for you: price isn't a balancing factor. hth.
This is coming from the guy whose alliance has a full reimbursement policy? When's the last time you actually paid for a PVP ship? |
Soon Shin
Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost
218
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Posted - 2013.05.03 18:39:00 -
[76] - Quote
Nex apparatu5 wrote:To everyone who is complaining that the price makes battleships somehow "worse", I have news for you: price isn't a balancing factor. hth.
It is a balancing factor.
Why pay 3-4 times maybe even 5 times more considering rig and fitting costs on a Battleships which have fairly niche usage
where its not a whole lot better than general battlecruisers in that niche?
Increasing the cost of Battleships does very little to fix the BC vs BS situation where 9/10 players will fly a BC over a BS.
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Tubrug1
162
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Posted - 2013.05.03 18:41:00 -
[77] - Quote
Please stop adjusting the mineral requirement for ships, all it does is decrease the acessability of PVP and completely breaks manufacturing for years after the change. www.tubrug1.blogspot.co.uk
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Hagika
LEGI0N
71
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Posted - 2013.05.03 18:45:00 -
[78] - Quote
Nex apparatu5 wrote:To everyone who is complaining that the price makes battleships somehow "worse", I have news for you: price isn't a balancing factor. hth.
I have news for you, the other forums speaking of the changes do not warrant the price increase that the community will feel in their pockets. This will no doubt make battleship use even less common.
Perhaps you should factor that into your view of balance vs cost because, cost is a balance factor when compared to other hulls.
Though I do not see you as the type as being able to figure that out, when everyone else is currently saying the opposite as you.
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Nex apparatu5
Friendship is Podding Test Alliance Please Ignore
510
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Posted - 2013.05.03 18:50:00 -
[79] - Quote
Soon Shin wrote:Nex apparatu5 wrote:To everyone who is complaining that the price makes battleships somehow "worse", I have news for you: price isn't a balancing factor. hth. It is a balancing factor. Why pay 3-4 times maybe even 5 times more considering rig and fitting costs on a Battleships which have fairly niche usage where its not a whole lot better than general battlecruisers in that niche? Increasing the cost of Battleships does very little to fix the BC vs BS situation where 9/10 players will fly a BC over a BS.
Well by that logic the price of titans should be cut in half. Why use them when a dread does more DPS? I mean, 9/10 pilots will fly a dread instead of a titan. Hell, probably more like 99/100 |
Grarr Dexx
Snuff Box Urine Alliance
41
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Posted - 2013.05.03 18:52:00 -
[80] - Quote
Nex apparatu5 wrote:Soon Shin wrote:Nex apparatu5 wrote:To everyone who is complaining that the price makes battleships somehow "worse", I have news for you: price isn't a balancing factor. hth. It is a balancing factor. Why pay 3-4 times maybe even 5 times more considering rig and fitting costs on a Battleships which have fairly niche usage where its not a whole lot better than general battlecruisers in that niche? Increasing the cost of Battleships does very little to fix the BC vs BS situation where 9/10 players will fly a BC over a BS. Well by that logic the price of titans should be cut in half. Why use them when a dread does more DPS? I mean, 9/10 pilots will fly a dread instead of a titan. Hell, probably more like 99/100
Reductio ad absurdum. Dreadnoughts do not offer jump bridges or a 5 million m-¦ ship hangar / 112 thousand m-¦ cargo space. You also don't have to lock them in place for five minutes to deal that damage and can deliver a burst of three million damage up front at the cost of only locking it in place for thirty seconds.
Stop embarrassing yourself. |
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Nex apparatu5
Friendship is Podding Test Alliance Please Ignore
510
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Posted - 2013.05.03 18:53:00 -
[81] - Quote
Hagika wrote:Nex apparatu5 wrote:To everyone who is complaining that the price makes battleships somehow "worse", I have news for you: price isn't a balancing factor. hth. I have news for you, the other forums speaking of the changes do not warrant the price increase that the community will feel in their pockets. This will no doubt make battleship use even less common. Perhaps you should factor that into your view of balance vs cost because, cost is a balance factor when compared to other hulls. Though I do not see you as the type as being able to figure that out, when everyone else is currently saying the opposite as you.
It's 40 million isk. It's a trivial amount |
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus Aeterna Anima
73
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Posted - 2013.05.03 18:55:00 -
[82] - Quote
Sable Moran wrote:Muscaat wrote:Isn't this going to screw up the market for battleship manufacturers, in the same way that the frigate changes screwed up that market for manufacturers? LOLled so hard my ribs hurt. I've been selling frigates for many years and I can say that there was no screwing the manufacturers. Every frigate I sell, I sell for profit.
Nice example of the narrow mindedness of EVE players regarding overall balance and future players.
It's potential manufacturers AFTER the patch that are screwed if half the BPOs are worthless, because the market is flooded with products below (the new) production cost.
As another side effect there's yet another set of exceptions to the symmetry between manufacturing and reprocessing. |
Nex apparatu5
Friendship is Podding Test Alliance Please Ignore
511
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Posted - 2013.05.03 18:55:00 -
[83] - Quote
Grarr Dexx wrote:Nex apparatu5 wrote:Soon Shin wrote:Nex apparatu5 wrote:To everyone who is complaining that the price makes battleships somehow "worse", I have news for you: price isn't a balancing factor. hth. It is a balancing factor. Why pay 3-4 times maybe even 5 times more considering rig and fitting costs on a Battleships which have fairly niche usage where its not a whole lot better than general battlecruisers in that niche? Increasing the cost of Battleships does very little to fix the BC vs BS situation where 9/10 players will fly a BC over a BS. Well by that logic the price of titans should be cut in half. Why use them when a dread does more DPS? I mean, 9/10 pilots will fly a dread instead of a titan. Hell, probably more like 99/100 Reductio ad absurdum. Dreadnoughts do not offer jump bridges or a 5 million m-¦ ship hangar / 112 thousand m-¦ cargo space. You also don't have to lock them in place for five minutes to deal that damage and can deliver a burst of three million damage up front at the cost of only locking it in place for thirty seconds.
Titans do not offer the ability to dock or the ability to shoot anything smaller than a capital either. Do you think the doomsday and jump portal gen are really worth the 110b more a titan costs? |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
346
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Posted - 2013.05.03 18:56:00 -
[84] - Quote
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
It's 40 million isk. It's a trivial amount
sure... |
Skia Aumer
Atlas Research Group
15
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Posted - 2013.05.03 18:57:00 -
[85] - Quote
Nex apparatu5 wrote:It's 40 million isk. It's a trivial amount Should we add 40 mil to frigate price tag, while we're at it? |
Grarr Dexx
Snuff Box Urine Alliance
41
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Posted - 2013.05.03 18:57:00 -
[86] - Quote
Nex apparatu5 wrote:Grarr Dexx wrote:Nex apparatu5 wrote:Soon Shin wrote:Nex apparatu5 wrote:To everyone who is complaining that the price makes battleships somehow "worse", I have news for you: price isn't a balancing factor. hth. It is a balancing factor. Why pay 3-4 times maybe even 5 times more considering rig and fitting costs on a Battleships which have fairly niche usage where its not a whole lot better than general battlecruisers in that niche? Increasing the cost of Battleships does very little to fix the BC vs BS situation where 9/10 players will fly a BC over a BS. Well by that logic the price of titans should be cut in half. Why use them when a dread does more DPS? I mean, 9/10 pilots will fly a dread instead of a titan. Hell, probably more like 99/100 Reductio ad absurdum. Dreadnoughts do not offer jump bridges or a 5 million m-¦ ship hangar / 112 thousand m-¦ cargo space. You also don't have to lock them in place for five minutes to deal that damage and can deliver a burst of three million damage up front at the cost of only locking it in place for thirty seconds. Titans do not offer the ability to dock or the ability to shoot anything smaller than a capital either. Do you think the doomsday and jump portal gen are really worth the 110b more a titan costs?
For the jump portal generator alone people would place down 110b, never mind the ship that comes with it. And "40 million ISK is a trivial amount", how would you know? You don't have to pay for your ships. For those who aren't as risk averse to only fly battleships in fleets big enough to need more than four wing commander characters, it matters. |
Nex apparatu5
Friendship is Podding Test Alliance Please Ignore
511
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Posted - 2013.05.03 19:00:00 -
[87] - Quote
Let's assume a plex is 500m for $15. If a BS hull goes up 50m, that's a buck fifty, which is what, 10 minutes at work if you're working at a burger joint, or less than a minute of work if you have a decent job.
Hell, even in eve it's like an hour of level 4s if you're bad at them. It's fairly trivial to pull in 200m/hr in this game, which would make it ~10 minutes.
You guys are getting worked up over a change which is essentially nothing. |
Skia Aumer
Atlas Research Group
15
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Posted - 2013.05.03 19:01:00 -
[88] - Quote
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:Nice example of the narrow mindedness of EVE players regarding overall balance and future players.
It's potential manufacturers AFTER the patch that are screwed if half the BPOs are worthless, because the market is flooded with products below (the new) production cost. That is a true change to new player experience. |
Nex apparatu5
Friendship is Podding Test Alliance Please Ignore
511
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Posted - 2013.05.03 19:01:00 -
[89] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:Nex apparatu5 wrote:It's 40 million isk. It's a trivial amount Should we add 40 mil to frigate price tag, while we're at it?
Sure, go for it. We'll still give them away to new players |
Hagika
LEGI0N
73
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Posted - 2013.05.03 19:02:00 -
[90] - Quote
Bucca Zerodyme wrote:CCP Rise wrote:The primary goal of tiericide is to eliminate any explicit power difference between ships within a class. If the power within a class is more or less level across all ships (which it is after the rebalance), the price should also be level. CCP Rise Let me summary: - Raven didnt changed at all, except some slot swaps. Neighter get EHP nor anything others - Rokh got nerfed - Lets adjust prices, because they are balanced now - The price of the Raven will be about 40m higher now Sounds fair. How about we balance CCP-Devs, too?
Welcome to the further caldari demise, now you all have to wait for another few years to have a decent battleship line up. |
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