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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Reislier
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.19 23:48:00 -
[151] - Quote
Skunk Gracklaw wrote: It sure is easy to spot the people who have never been to nullsec.
Apparently.. it isn't.
Russell Casey wrote: You may now rage.
/agree
When a sandbox game becomes linear progression.. it loses it's box. |
Lyubov Petrovskaya
Shell 17 Solutions
0
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Posted - 2011.10.19 23:50:00 -
[152] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
Forgive me if this is blunt, but eve NEEDS people to go to null. The consumption from ship killing, fuel and ammo use and other things in null drives the economy. The unique experiances people have in null drive the game.
You (and others) seem to be questioning the very need to make null more attractive, and that's every bit as shortsighted as having PvPr's who don't understand the need for miners.
Rather than whining about changes, High sec players should be hoping and praying that CCP succeeds in gettin people out to null, even if they themselves don't go.
No, not too blunt at all, I actually like your reply. This thread has actually been reasonably constructive and I appreciate your reply because it is in the spirit of that. I totally agree that we need the stuff that happens in null to drive the economy.
My point is just that all that stuff goes on in w-space too, with the added bonus of not being terrible and boring (in my opinion). W-space is a better option for people like myself that don't want to care-bear risk free all day in hi-sec but don't care for the hassles of null either.
Why would you bother "fixing null" when there are still plenty of people enjoy it and the fun reasonable alternative is already at hand for those who don't? I might sound like a bit of a evangelist, but w-space is the solution for those of us who don't care for null.
If anything, CCP should add another big chunk of w-systems and I think we'd be in good shape.
(fixed for the fixers) |
Jenshae Chiroptera
36
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Posted - 2011.10.19 23:58:00 -
[153] - Quote
Lyubov Petrovskaya wrote: W-space is a good compromisebetter option for people ... that don't care for the hassles of null ...
Fixed. CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die. |
Lyubov Petrovskaya
Shell 17 Solutions
0
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Posted - 2011.10.20 00:00:00 -
[154] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Lyubov Petrovskaya wrote: W-space is a good compromisebetter option for people ... that don't care for the hassles of null ...
Fixed.
OP fixed ;-) |
Callduron
5
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Posted - 2011.10.20 00:02:00 -
[155] - Quote
I think the problem is that there's too great a gap between the haves and the havenots.
Nerfing supercaps is a good step. It'll be good to see how that plays out.
Nerfing Tech needs to happen. It creates "good space" and gives the powers that hold it an unassailable lead.
And lastly something that makes space holding less blobby. It's possible that POCOs might help this. If you have to defend a large empire you might become more reluctant to concentrate force, instead creating small roving defence fleets to stop POCO bashes.
At the end of the day a guy in a Hurricane should be able to make an impact, not be a spectator as invincible herds of super-ships stroll past. |
Russell Casey
One Ton THREE WOLF
30
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Posted - 2011.10.20 00:06:00 -
[156] - Quote
Reislier wrote:Skunk Gracklaw wrote: It sure is easy to spot the people who have never been to nullsec.
Apparently.. it isn't. Russell Casey wrote: You may now rage.
/agree When a sandbox game becomes linear progression.. it loses it's box.
EVE is not a sandbox. A sandbox would have been launched, kept up to date with current hardware and otherwise totally left alone good or bad. |
Reislier
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.20 00:11:00 -
[157] - Quote
I wish they would mix it up a bit.
More empire space but in islands seperated by null. Trader caravans across null to another high sec would offer interesting potential. You want people in null.. how about caravan fleets passing thru?
More null but without sov and limit what ships can go there. Turbulence maybe.. sharks with lasers for sure.
Much much more worm hole space. Since the intermittent availabity of access keeps it available to more people. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
36
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Posted - 2011.10.20 00:24:00 -
[158] - Quote
Islands, even large high sec islands that are separated by null sec already exist and they are empty. Why would you work hard there to get ganked taking it to market when you can be directly in line with the market?
If came along and said "There has been a huge rift in space and now getting to one trade hub from another would have to go through null sec ... why then you would just have four high sec areas and they would be self contained.
No matter what changes you make. High sec people will go for the safest option. They are not interested in null sec and no matter how much incentive you make, you will not get them there. Dish out the punishment and they will take their subscriptions to other games. CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die. |
Scarlet des Loupes
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2011.10.20 08:18:00 -
[159] - Quote
Well we either keep null as it is and the subsequent consequence that a lot of people dislike the specific playstyle or 0.0 has got to change to cater different kinds of players.
I have no idea if CCP thinks null is good as it is?!
I would like to have far more unexplored space though. Space feeling crowded and full, that's a strange idea. |
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
94
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Posted - 2011.10.20 08:47:00 -
[160] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Forgive me if this is blunt, but eve NEEDS people to go to null. The consumption from ship killing, fuel and ammo use and other things in null drives the economy. The unique experiances people have in null drive the game.
You (and others) seem to be questioning the very need to make null more attractive, and that's every bit as shortsighted as having PvPr's who don't understand the need for miners.
Rather than whining about changes, High sec players should be hoping and praying that CCP succeeds in gettin people out to null, even if they themselves don't go. Well not necessarily.
There's alternatives to push the economy. Think about an arena like PvP environment, people would go and lose 100s if not 1000s of ships a day. It will give the economy a boost as we've never seen before, for example Hulkageddon would be nothing in comparison.
The thing is that you can't force people into things that aren't enjoyable - for them, not trying to tell the absolute truth. People wouldn't mind losing ships in arenas because they'd think it's fun. If there's not enough people in null it just means it's not fun. And the argument "eve NEEDS people to go to null" won't really help in that case.
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Jooce McNasty
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
22
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Posted - 2011.10.20 09:21:00 -
[161] - Quote
To populate Null sec you need to make it like Empire space. The owners of the null sec space must be able to build the infrastructure and the support that you have in high sec to get people to move out.
If corporations and alliances could recruit NPC's to protect their space (dependent of system level)
Allow Corp's and Alliances to setup gate guns and station guns to protect their players.
Allow Corp's and Alliances to recruit NPC mission agents and stage them in specific systems. (increase the isk payout since its in null sec).
Give alliances and corp's more tools to know when people have entered their space, this way entering space and harrasing missioners miners and ratters is more challenging.
Give alliances and Corps the ability to make their own missions with either isk payout from the alliance or a version of alliance LP
You need to revamp alot of Null mechanics to make it interesting and appealing to the majority of the hi-sec population.
Alot of people don't want to shoot others they just want to shoot NPC's.
Who am I to say that they are playing the game wrong, alliances that hold space though should not strictly be pvp players, a proper alliance should have all type of players supporting it in its goal.
The goal should be a reward not to just the alliance but to the individuals as well, it's alot harder to get people to come fight for you with no incentive, other then good fights.
Once you can develop a system that encourages the players to fight for the same goal as the alliance and make the players feel that they are actually a valued member, you will get more people in null.
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Onictus
Legendary Knights Vorpal's Edge
1
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Posted - 2011.10.20 09:38:00 -
[162] - Quote
Callduron wrote:I think the problem is that there's too great a gap between the haves and the havenots.
Nerfing supercaps is a good step. It'll be good to see how that plays out.
Nerfing Tech needs to happen. It creates "good space" and gives the powers that hold it an unassailable lead.
And lastly something that makes space holding less blobby. It's possible that POCOs might help this. If you have to defend a large empire you might become more reluctant to concentrate force, instead creating small roving defence fleets to stop POCO bashes.
At the end of the day a guy in a Hurricane should be able to make an impact, not be a spectator as invincible herds of super-ships stroll past.
Heh
The PI change sound's more like another isk faucet for the mega alliances with system after system of .....nothing. Really? higher taxes in Hi-sec...oh cool that means my COPO won't get blown up every time a pirate with a few battleships comes by.
Bye bye low-sec pi.
If you note the the dev-blog thread those COPOs are going to have less HP than a small tower, its either keep the system locked down 23/7 or don't do PI...oh yeah the materials to BUILD the things are P4s......so yeah. Whoo hoo highers tax on hi sec it is....and stockpile all you can until the price spikes.
The issue with Null is part mechanic, part player.
You can't expect to get and hold sov without supers, you can't build supers witihout SOV.....so without going out and placing your self at the whim of a 0.0 alliance you can't get into null without making yourself subservient to another entity. ....and the elephant in the room is that you STILL need a 24 hour presence to protect your space or the first time the knock down the cyno jammer your are going to loose everything you have to the first couple guys with super that get in and break all off your toys....
....so much for that CSAA and any super you were trying to cook.
**** em, they can have it.
Every player I know that lives in null generally bounces back and forth. They loose everything come back to empire for a bit, then go back out and do it again later. |
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CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
41
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Posted - 2011.10.20 09:54:00 -
[163] - Quote
This thread is pretty awesome. You guys will get a few 0.0 changes this winter, smaller ones that should improve quality of life.
One thing I'm thinking about, but not entirely sure about is this: Putting bounties on drones instead of minerals. Mining used to be a viable way of making money in nullsec, but the increase in available minerals has driven the price down. I'm wondering if putting bounties on drones won't give mining a bit of a revival and put some life back in 0.0. |
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DeBingJos
T.R.I.A.D
110
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Posted - 2011.10.20 10:00:00 -
[164] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:This thread is pretty awesome. You guys will get a few 0.0 changes this winter, smaller ones that should improve quality of life.
One thing I'm thinking about, but not entirely sure about is this: Putting bounties on drones instead of minerals. Mining used to be a viable way of making money in nullsec, but the increase in available minerals has driven the price down. I'm wondering if putting bounties on drones won't give mining a bit of a revival and put some life back in 0.0. Yes please, but not only in nullsec of course.
Fix FW ! |
flakeys
The Great cornholio's Paper Tiger Coalition
24
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Posted - 2011.10.20 10:06:00 -
[165] - Quote
Simetraz wrote:I wil make this real simple.
High-sec is for casual game play. 0.0 is NOT casual game play.
This and 'tha blob be bad'.
It's usually fighting blob vs blob wich is boring , you have to be there at time X for form up and eventually depart 1 to 2 hours later to have a 30minutes trip to system Y.Once there you wait another half hour to a full hour before anything happends and then it's pressing buttons on command.
No thx |
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
95
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 10:07:00 -
[166] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:This thread is pretty awesome. You guys will get a few 0.0 changes this winter, smaller ones that should improve quality of life.
One thing I'm thinking about, but not entirely sure about is this: Putting bounties on drones instead of minerals. Mining used to be a viable way of making money in nullsec, but the increase in available minerals has driven the price down. I'm wondering if putting bounties on drones won't give mining a bit of a revival and put some life back in 0.0. Well the question remains: do you actually want more people in nulsec? |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
180
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Posted - 2011.10.20 10:14:00 -
[167] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:One thing I'm thinking about, but not entirely sure about is this: Putting bounties on drones instead of minerals. Mining used to be a viable way of making money in nullsec, but the increase in available minerals has driven the price down. I'm wondering if putting bounties on drones won't give mining a bit of a revival and put some life back in 0.0.
Not bounties. Go check the CSM backlog, people want implants and better modules for combat/ewar/utility drones. Have drones drop "tags" and salvage which can be used in manufacturing/PI/invention to produce things for drone users.
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Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
95
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Posted - 2011.10.20 10:18:00 -
[168] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:One thing I'm thinking about, but not entirely sure about is this: Putting bounties on drones instead of minerals. Mining used to be a viable way of making money in nullsec, but the increase in available minerals has driven the price down. I'm wondering if putting bounties on drones won't give mining a bit of a revival and put some life back in 0.0. Not bounties. Go check the CSM backlog, people want implants and better modules for combat/ewar/utility drones. Have drones drop "tags" and salvage which can be used in manufacturing/PI/invention to produce things for drone users. But it's already so tedious and time consuming to loot drones compared to other rats .. I'd vote for bounties! |
Comy 1
Ore Mongers Indecisive Certainty
44
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Posted - 2011.10.20 10:23:00 -
[169] - Quote
One thing I think could be interresting would be to remove some nullsec - nullsec region connections to make it harder for mega alliances to hold huge empires consisting of several regions. I don't know if it's actually possible but if you can create jump bridges between regions it should be removed aswell.
To make this work you would probably need to redesign the map a little bit to make regions like cobalt edge, tenal, paragon soul etc a bit closer to low sec. Maybe even throw in an extra 2 low sec regions to make it work.
This way smaller gangs can still travel between regions without way too much effort, but it would hopefully split up some of the larger coalitions, or atleast make it harder for them to cooperate between regions and make it harder for blobs to form and travel. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
659
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 10:42:00 -
[170] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:This thread is pretty awesome. You guys will get a few 0.0 changes this winter, smaller ones that should improve quality of life.
One thing I'm thinking about, but not entirely sure about is this: Putting bounties on drones instead of minerals. Mining used to be a viable way of making money in nullsec, but the increase in available minerals has driven the price down. I'm wondering if putting bounties on drones won't give mining a bit of a revival and put some life back in 0.0.
OH SWEET BABY JESUS YES FOR THE LOVE OF GOD FINALLY! PLEASE DO THIS
OK that said.... please don't turn Drones into a simple reskins of the bounty rats we already have. They should retain some unique characteristics. What about changing drone spawns from belt-rat style to an incursion style, with massive mobile hive-swarms of drones moving through star systems, stripping the belts, attacking structures and then moving on after a day or two.
It would also be a GOLDEN opportunity to introduce the long awaited, much desired Drone Skills implants and new drone modules as drops from the "Faction" drones (The Sentient $_DRONE rats). You could also introduce Drone hauler spawns that still drop the drone alloys, to give a different flavor to the haulers of the other NPCs.
(Also, how about drone exploration sites yielding datacores, salvage and skillbooks required to build T2 Drone Ships?) Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
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Cedille Mureau
Institute of Archaeology
3
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Posted - 2011.10.20 10:43:00 -
[171] - Quote
Adelphie wrote: So my question to non-null sec players - What keeps you out of null, and what features would you like to see which might entice you to venture out here?
Well the question really is :"what's in it for me?"
Do I want to be the pawn in someone else's game? No. Are there things to do in 0.0 that I can't do in hisec? Maybe. Can I go to 0.0 as a casual player, and survive? From the replies in this thread. probably not. Would I get more enjoyment from the game if I was in 0.0 Definitely not. Would I get richer if I went to 0.0 Again from the replies, probably not.
So the answer is: nothing, as to my mind, the way I want to play EVE gives me no reason to move to 0.0.
It might be nice to go there for a visit, but would you want to live there?
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Cailais
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
70
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Posted - 2011.10.20 10:43:00 -
[172] - Quote
I think if you want to improve the attractiveness of null sec to an Empire resident then you need to work to the lowest common denominator - the individual player.
I believe that one of the primary barriers to players even dipping their toe into null sec space is the assumption, rightly or wrongly, that it is the domain of the highly organised large scale and already existing entities (corporations and alliances).
If we encourage individuals to go out and experience null sec, and they find it both a rewarding and fun experience then those individuals will gradually pool together and emergent co-operation has a better chance of evolving.
One generic mechanism that could be employed at this scale is a worthwhile smuggling mechanic. Smuggling contraband goods is ideally suited to individual or small corp play. As the majority of Alliances with Outposts in Null Sec prevent access to neutrals to their stations I think a workable mechanic could be introduced to enable specific ship types to 'puncture' these barriers and enable docking.
Selecting small, but high value contraband goods (perhaps tied to mineral acquisition in null sec, super rare unstable ores, highly compressed ores, narcotics etc) could again be utilised as an incentive to these players.
Eventually we would like to see these individuals coalesce into slightly larger groups (small corporation size) and concealed smuggling bases - suitable for smaller vessels or limited storage - might enable that tenuous foothold to become a reality.
C.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
659
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Posted - 2011.10.20 10:47:00 -
[173] - Quote
Russell Casey wrote:This may sound strange coming from a highsec player but since you asked, I will tell the truth----and the truth shall make you mad: dedicated highsec players will not feel the need to carve out chunks of low/0.0/WH space for themselves or even go there until there's something they want that they cannot get in empire.
And since everything can be bought from someone if you have enough isk---basically if you spend enough time farming or buy PLEX---creating this want is only possible by nerfing PvE in highsec into the ground. You know those pesky belt rats you have to kill every twenty minutes or so when you mine in your hulk? And how the measly 200K, assuming it's a 0.5 belt, you bring in after an hour in the belt is barely noticeably next to the massive ore haul?
That measly 200K per hour would have to be the average income of a highsec player to sufficiently motivate them out of highsec.
A handful of asteroids depleting in a single cycle per belt, lukewarm incursions that can be done with a bunch of frigates, PI only capable of spitting up the cheapest resources at the slowest rate, and missions only going up to level 2 (please withhold your raging till the end of the post, thank you). Farming highsec belts in a hulk would have to be as pointless as ratting there in a T3 cruiser.
But the problem is, it's too late to do that. People are comfortable where they're at and they've had it that way for years. If CCP did just come out and say, "yeah you can solo in highsec, but you're going to be dirt poor, and we mean so poor that even a cruiser will be like a ferrari to you" they'd lose more subs than they did with Monoclegate because they would tearing down an entire way of life. We're well past the "reward vs. risk" incentive and there's no going back.
Move ice to null? Please, my two hulk alts mine veldspar all day and I don't own a POS so why should I care?
Reduce the loot/salvage of mission rats? I don't bother with the wrecks unless I see a ninja, then I shoot them with my marauder.
Better rewards in low/NPC null? Uh, I don't want to get ganked unless I'm at Jita. And besides, I have everything I need in highsec. Look at my shiny faction BS.
CCP, in their benevolent attempts to promote player interaction and cooperation inadvertantly added more ISK-printing options like lvl 4s and Incursions and because they're worried about losing lots of subs (which they should be) have nerfed the ISK-printing machine too slowly and not enough to really make a difference. As a result, empire and nullsec have grown further and further apart with each passing year and each expansion because they're essentially two separate games that cross each other's paths once in a while.
Highsec is essentially independent of nullsec which, in turn has become dependent on the goods flowing in from highsec when it should be the other way around. Nullsec players can't do squat to change highsec, and CCP won't risk losing the subs of their largest playerbase. Highsec controls both of them.
Case in point: whenever the goons declare war on miners, everyone yaps and cries that they're going to kill EVE as if such a thing were possible. They rampage around, pop some exhumers, cause a little mayhem, but when they finally have shot their load and call it a jihad, the highsec farmers go right back to what they were doing and a week later it doesn't seem like anything's changed at all except maybe a few hundred players have learned not to ignore rookie ships idling next to them.
Why is this? Because they're already wealthy enough to replace their losses from highsec PvE, and if not, they soon will be. Events like Hulkageddon and the Ice Embargo are like throwing rocks into a lake. You disturb the water and make some ripples, but come back an hour later and it's the same lake as before. Throwing in more rocks will not change the lake, you have to build a dam or drain it.
You may now rage.
Excellent post, good analysis. Hi-sec does need reforming, but there's no use trying to pretend that it's merely EVE's starter area, or that it can be balanced as such any longer. Perhaps once upon a time, before hi-sec level 4s were introduced, it was still possible to mold hi-sec this way, but no longer. That horse has long bolted. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
March rabbit
Ganse Shadow of xXDEATHXx
16
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Posted - 2011.10.20 10:48:00 -
[174] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:One thing I'm thinking about, but not entirely sure about is this: Putting bounties on drones instead of minerals. Mining used to be a viable way of making money in nullsec, but the increase in available minerals has driven the price down. I'm wondering if putting bounties on drones won't give mining a bit of a revival and put some life back in 0.0. ugm.... Interesting idea.
I think not only bounty but some kind of faction stuff too then.
And then dronelands will need to heavily redesign industry running in it..... |
Fille Balle
Ballbreakers R us
4
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Posted - 2011.10.20 10:59:00 -
[175] - Quote
DeBingJos wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:This thread is pretty awesome. You guys will get a few 0.0 changes this winter, smaller ones that should improve quality of life.
One thing I'm thinking about, but not entirely sure about is this: Putting bounties on drones instead of minerals. Mining used to be a viable way of making money in nullsec, but the increase in available minerals has driven the price down. I'm wondering if putting bounties on drones won't give mining a bit of a revival and put some life back in 0.0. Yes please, but not only in nullsec of course.
This guy speaks many words of wisdom! Drone missions is currently the best way to get hi-ends in highsec. High ends should be scarce in highsec. That's why t1 was removed from the droplist, or did I miss something?
As for getting me to move to 0.0. Well, let me put it this way, pick two:
EvE Online Casual PvP
When I can pick all three, I'll move. Or, if there is some way of not needing to pick all three, then I'll also move. Hopefully I won't pick number 2 and 3 |
Vicar2008
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
36
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Posted - 2011.10.20 11:09:00 -
[176] - Quote
Giving Drone bounties would be an idea, but when you look at the drone regions Ture Sec status at present. They have way better distrubtion of True Sec status compared to any other 0.0 and NPC region true sec put together. Plus the fact that Russian Alliances pretty much have all that area all tied up and are building Stations in the region at an alarming rate http://evemaps.dotlan.net/outposts something tells me the "I Win" button will go into overdrive. |
Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum KUGUTSUMEN.
194
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Posted - 2011.10.20 11:11:00 -
[177] - Quote
You want people back into null? Revert the sanctum change. Granted it will just get carebears back, but baby steps. |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
193
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Posted - 2011.10.20 11:14:00 -
[178] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:This thread is pretty awesome. You guys will get a few 0.0 changes this winter, smaller ones that should improve quality of life.
One thing I'm thinking about, but not entirely sure about is this: Putting bounties on drones instead of minerals. Mining used to be a viable way of making money in nullsec, but the increase in available minerals has driven the price down. I'm wondering if putting bounties on drones won't give mining a bit of a revival and put some life back in 0.0.
Keep in mind that changing drones null-sec will change them in high-sec as well. How will drones with bounty in high-sec affect the game as a whole? Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
Swordfingers
Universal Freelance CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS
0
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Posted - 2011.10.20 11:16:00 -
[179] - Quote
I tried null year ago and went back. Why? Because it's the exact opposite of this game should be about. It's advertized as a game where you can be anybody and do anything (you know, sandbox) and the when you join an alliance it's suddenly: "CTA BITCHEZ JOIN UP OR THE KITTEN GET'S IT, YOU WILL BE ONLINE AT 3 IN MORNING!!!11!" Many (maybe even most) of the players get enough of this at work and don't want the game to be just another chore. The best way to fix null sec wouldn't be removing or adding features, but removing people running the current alliances. |
Obax Bannon
Fidelis Technologies
18
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Posted - 2011.10.20 11:34:00 -
[180] - Quote
Freyh, what a fantastic post. Sums it all up exactly.
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