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Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
748
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Posted - 2013.05.06 12:43:00 -
[61] - Quote
Hey there, Tibie!
See ya! Glad I don't have to be ya! Meta-gaming for carebears:
Whine on the forums like a little ***** until CCP gets sick of you and hands you everything you ask for just to shut you up. |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Tribal Band
878
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Posted - 2013.05.06 16:09:00 -
[62] - Quote
[quote=TomHorn You ask what is our aim? I can answer in one word Victory. Victory at all costs, Victory in spite of all terror ,Victory however long and hard the road may be, for without victory there is no survival ![/quote]
Funny, there's an ancient children's fairytail (a cautionary one) about a really angry man who leads his country to ruin with promises of total victory. It took place in the mythical country of Jermani on a continent called Yourup, I think. Well, it doesn't matter any way since it's completely fictional but I digress.
Point is, people who ride on extreme and jingoistic concepts of victory don't usually achieve said victory. Look at all of the events regarding Caldari Prime this past decade. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Oserik Illard
Concordant Sciences
4
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Posted - 2013.05.06 19:01:00 -
[63] - Quote
I'm a big fan of schadenfreude, but this announcement, assuming it comes to pass, has dire implications for the entire Cluster.
Based on the news story, it looks like KK is the most vulnerable right now. Is Heth the majority shareholder, in addition to CEO? I'm curious why funneling KK funds to the Provists isn't an ultra vires act (or maybe it is, and Tibus Heth is simply above the law).
It seems to me like someone is trying to drive KK into bankruptcy, so it can then be nationalized on the grounds that it's "too big to fail." Maybe CFU should start offering attractive swaps and derivatives of KK debt, or even write some of it off. They'd have to take a loss, but they'll lose their entire investment once KK gets nationalized.
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Svetlana Scarlet
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
105
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Posted - 2013.05.06 19:07:00 -
[64] - Quote
Oserik Illard wrote:It seems to me like someone is trying to drive KK into bankruptcy, so it can then be nationalized on the grounds that it's "too big to fail." Maybe CFU should start offering attractive swaps and derivatives of KK debt, or even write some of it off. They'd have to take a loss, but they'll lose their entire investment once KK gets nationalized.
There is no such thing as too big to fail. If KK dies, I am sure the remaining megacorporations will use every part of the animal, so to speak. There may be pain for KK employees and shareholders, but that is the price they pay for poor leadership. |
Oserik Illard
Concordant Sciences
4
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Posted - 2013.05.06 19:20:00 -
[65] - Quote
Svetlana Scarlet wrote: There is no such thing as too big to fail. If KK dies, I am sure the remaining megacorporations will use every part of the animal, so to speak. There may be pain for KK employees and shareholders, but that is the price they pay for poor leadership.
Under normal circumstances, I'd agree with you. I didn't think there was such a thing as nationalization in the Caldari State, and yet here we are now.
Look at the rhetoric of Heth's announcement; "providence of the workers," "decadent CEOs," blaming corporate infighting for recent military setbacks. At this point, is it such a stretch to speculate that KK assets are going to be "put in receivership to provide justice and prosperity to the oppressed workers of the Caldari State"? |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
392
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Posted - 2013.05.06 19:35:00 -
[66] - Quote
Nationalization in the State requires that there be a central government; in all truth, there isn't one in a sense the Matari or Gallente would understand. The CEP operates as an oversight and governmental organization, surely, but has only so much power as the megacorporations allow it. That our belief in duty and responsibility maintain its power is natural, but it stands as an example of how much power Heth has: as much as the State allows him.
Given that Ishukone and other megacorporations have rejected Heth's assertion of a desire to nationalize the megacorporations, I doubt he'll have the ability to enforce his will. |
Shintoko Akahoshi
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
38
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Posted - 2013.05.06 19:53:00 -
[67] - Quote
Svetlana Scarlet wrote:There is no such thing as too big to fail. If KK dies, I am sure the remaining megacorporations will use every part of the animal, so to speak. There may be pain for KK employees and shareholders, but that is the price they pay for poor leadership.
Oh, I don't think there will even be too much pain for KK employees. Shareholders? Yes. They're the one's who will likely have some issues to raise with Heth and his recent leadership.
Should KK actually collapse to any degree, the opportunities for other megacorporations (existing or new, this is a meritocracy we're talking about) should pretty much guarantee that existing KK facilities and their employees would face at worst a brief readjustment period while their new business cards are printed up. Individual KK employees, facilities and subsidiaries did not fail, after all. KK revenues did not drop. KK's troubles stem solely from the use of revenues by Heth in a way that did not support the good of the corporation itself. Bio and writing |
Scherezad
Lai Dai Research Spacelane Security
895
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Posted - 2013.05.06 20:16:00 -
[68] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Nationalization in the State requires that there be a central government; in all truth, there isn't one in a sense the Matari or Gallente would understand. The CEP operates as an oversight and governmental organization, surely, but has only so much power as the megacorporations allow it. That our belief in duty and responsibility maintain its power is natural, but it stands as an example of how much power Heth has: as much as the State allows him.
Given that Ishukone and other megacorporations have rejected Heth's assertion of a desire to nationalize the megacorporations, I doubt he'll have the ability to enforce his will.
Eight-in-one and One-in-eight will never see the winds abate; One-for-all and All-for-one will set the fair Caldari sun. |
Kymki Akamitsu
Aseyakone
0
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Posted - 2013.05.07 15:57:00 -
[69] - Quote
The "news" of the dwindling business of KK could not have been more timely. However, the most interesting part of this story is how Heth takes it upon himself to "nationalize" the megacorporations for the people. His history aside, if this was indeed an act for the good of the people, why is the perspective of the Caldari citizens kept out of the process? Why was there not a single line of detail regarding how this nationalization would be actuated? A unification under a national board could have any of a multitude of structures.
As such, it is impossible to discuss his suggestion in a meaningful manner since its not even meaningfully defined. If this is to be done in the name of the people, give the people more information so that they can form their own perspective and take a stand. All other alternatives forces a resort to ad hominem attacks - a trigger some people have already jumped at without thinking.
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Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
2592
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Posted - 2013.05.07 17:27:00 -
[70] - Quote
Indeed, Mme. Akamitsu. One might even believe that the exclusion of Caldari workers from this decision and the ill-defined nature of the process were not accidental - a person inclined to seizing power would do well to have the support of the most numerous polity without actually giving them any input into the decision, and would naturally seek to be given powers as broad as they could get, an aim to which giving a specific description of one's plans would be antithetical.
But that's only if he were cynically seeking to seize power, of course.
Purely hypothetical. Mane 614
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1031
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Posted - 2013.05.07 20:26:00 -
[71] - Quote
Indeed, Andreus, the move to nationalise the megacorporations is nothing more than an attack UPON the Caldari People. Not just a poorly defined attack on nebulous 'freedoms' but a direct attack not only upon their source of current income, but upon the provision for their old age, the education of their children and furtherance of their legacies.
Several people here have attempted to separate Kaalakiota Stockholders from Kaalakiota Workers - when the two are one and the same thing!
Meritocracy. This is the word that has been Heth's rallying cry - well Heth has broken the budget of the CPD. He has broken Kaalakiota by diverting funds to try and keep the CPD running. Now he wants to plunder the other seven to keep the wolf from the door.
High time we let the wolf in to have a word with him, I think. |
Shiho Weitong
Koa Mai Hoku Nulli Legio
21
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Posted - 2013.05.07 21:43:00 -
[72] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:High time we let the wolf in to have a word with him, I think.
Say the word statesman.
The stars cry in pain, and it is our duty to soothe them. I may only be a simple capsuleer against what might be the new vision of the state. But so are we all. And our fellow statesmen will fight besides us.
My allegiance lies with the state, with Lai Dai, and with my monastery. So that is how I will live. If you can find use for my wings, let me know.
Heiian unto death. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1032
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Posted - 2013.05.07 21:58:00 -
[73] - Quote
Shiho Weitong wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:High time we let the wolf in to have a word with him, I think. Say the word statesman. The stars cry in pain, and it is our duty to soothe them. I may only be a simple capsuleer against what might be the new vision of the state. But so are we all. And our fellow statesmen will fight besides us. My allegiance lies with the state, with Lai Dai, and with my monastery. So that is how I will live. If you can find use for my wings, let me know. Heiian unto death.
Bide your time, haan. When the CEP announces the move then both of us can add our guns to their demands. |
Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
429
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Posted - 2013.05.07 22:05:00 -
[74] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Meritocracy. This is the word that has been Heth's rallying cry - well Heth has broken the budget of the CPD. He has broken Kaalakiota by diverting funds to try and keep the CPD running. Now he wants to plunder the other seven to keep the wolf from the door.
Say what you will about every other aspect of Heth's reign, but we have factual evidence that he is at least unfit to be a CEO when his lack of financial prowess broke one entity and then a second as he rushed to buoy up the first. Under the meritocracy Heth goes on so much about, he should be shifted to somewhere that actually fits his talents.
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
High time we let the wolf in to have a word with him, I think.
Unfortunately, as the CEO of Kaalakiota and the man responsible for their financial situation, he has also made KK vulnerable to the wolves as well. I was previously fearful that he would drag them down with him and lead to their dissolution much the same way the corporations opposed to the Caldari Gallente war were dissolved by those who supported it, but I now see a much less political method of KK's destruction. When They can't pay their debts in money, their debtors will come to collect in property, that means the other corporations will be taking goods, infrastructure, and even workers away from Kaalakiota. It will at the very least be reduced in size, but if the financial burden of this is too much, I see the possibility of them being forced to choose going out of business (and the other megas will rush to scoop up what they can in the resulting firesale), or having one (or more) of the megas offer to buy KK and bring them on as a subsidiary.
I definitely agree Heth needs to go right now, but I am fearful of what it might mean for Kaalakiota if THEY don't remove Heth themselves very very soon. better the KK wolves eat Heth alive than the wolves in the other corporations eat KK alive to get to Heth.
=== Also a note to everyone accusing people who previously supported Heth of changing their stance and supposedly betraying their ideals: First of all, if leaders were perfect, they would never be removed from office, but they are just as fallible as any other person; if they make a mistake they deserve to be called on it, and Heth has made some mistakes as of recently. Most of us are loyal to the State and the leadership POSITIONS in the State rather than the leaders themselves, so calling a leader out for acting against the State is not a change of stance at all. Lastly, many of us who are calling Heth out on his recent blunders have been opposed to him from the start, but his recent actions have served to add weight to our arguments. |
Frenjo Borkstar
Heth Defence Movement
0
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Posted - 2013.07.01 20:43:00 -
[75] - Quote
I fully support this statement.
Nationalisation is key to survival of the State. In order to succeed as a political body, there needs to be one central unified government to oversee all operations. Heth-haan will make that happen |
Evi Polevhia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
239
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Posted - 2013.07.01 22:59:00 -
[76] - Quote
Frenjo Borkstar wrote:Heth-haan is the State. Heth-haan is victory. My loyalty to Heth-haan.
Little late to the party in a few ways, aren't you? |
Vladimir Tan
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.07.02 04:58:00 -
[77] - Quote
Frenjo Borkstar wrote:Heth-haan is the State. Heth-haan is victory. My loyalty to Heth-haan.
Tibus Heth is nothing but a terrorist now. |
Svetlana Scarlet
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
194
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Posted - 2013.07.03 19:18:00 -
[78] - Quote
Vladimir Tan wrote:Tibus Heth is nothing but a terrorist now.
As if he was ever anything else. |
Frenjo Borkstar
EVE Corporation 98237921
0
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Posted - 2013.08.15 17:43:00 -
[79] - Quote
He's not a terrorist, he's just more enlightened than those that accuse him of being such. |
Aelisha
Achura-Waschi Exchange
217
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Posted - 2013.08.15 21:02:00 -
[80] - Quote
What is it with pallid, hooded men and raising things from the dead? CEO of the Achura-Waschi Exchange: An International trade corporation that adheres to State values
Intaki born State Citizen and supporter of the Practicals Bloc. |
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Alex Etolle
Shadowfire Exploration and Security Rura-Penthe
23
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Posted - 2013.08.16 19:02:00 -
[81] - Quote
Frenjo Borkstar wrote:He's not a terrorist, he's just more enlightened than those that accuse him of being such.
The day Heth is pardoned for his crimes and made leader of the Caldari State is the day when pigs fly and I start hating speghetti and meatballs with cheese. He's good as dead, he knows this which is why he's hiding so he doesn't have to get sentenced to at the very least life in prison without any chance for parole. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
520
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Posted - 2013.08.17 04:23:00 -
[82] - Quote
Alex Etolle wrote: The day Heth is pardoned for his crimes and made leader of the Caldari State is the day when pigs fly and I start hating speghetti and meatballs with cheese. He's good as dead, he knows this which is why he's hiding so he doesn't have to get sentenced to at the very least life in prison without any chance for parole.
Stupid gallentean!!
Do you even have a slightest idea about courts, judges, legal system? Or can only scream groundless insults?
Tibus Heth is NOT a criminal, until either he will admit his crimes, or he will be heard in the tribunal, where he will be able to defend himself and will be found guilty.
Until this happens, under Caldari law, he CAN'T be considered a criminal.
Your decadent unjust corrupted Federal system, although, can call him a criminal, but it won't make him criminal!
And because your second grade peoples developed such flithy system, the Federation must be destroyed! |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1466
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Posted - 2013.08.17 06:18:00 -
[83] - Quote
He's been declared an Enemy of the State, Diana. By the CEP - the final arbiter in all matters.
The CBT is unlikely to raise a finger to aid him, since he rode roughshod over them. |
Cyrus Alabel
Penumbra Institute Catastrophic Uprising
37
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Posted - 2013.08.17 10:04:00 -
[84] - Quote
Oh. It's this thread again. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1467
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Posted - 2013.08.17 10:23:00 -
[85] - Quote
Cyrus Alabel wrote:Oh. It's this thread again.
Every winds-damned thread is turning into this thread. |
Aelisha
Achura-Waschi Exchange
226
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Posted - 2013.08.17 12:08:00 -
[86] - Quote
When a majority decides that taunting or abusing a fanatic is acceptable, you end up with this situation.
Curbing this toxic trend is an individual responsibility, so I urge you to lean on individuals you see propagating this tiresome bear-baiting. There's taking a stand against repellent rhetoric, and then there's just abusing someone who clearly cannot act on their now-defunct belief system because it is easier than participating in meaningful discussion on other topics. CEO of the Achura-Waschi Exchange: An International trade corporation that adheres to State values
Intaki born State Citizen and supporter of the Practicals Bloc. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1473
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Posted - 2013.08.17 17:50:00 -
[87] - Quote
I suppose it's born from a desire not to have to put up with things we wouldn't put up with from anyone else, Miss Montanegre. |
Caellach Marellus
Aideron Technologies
1112
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Posted - 2013.08.17 18:10:00 -
[88] - Quote
Just stop feeding it.
It's like the days where half the IGS became focused on Star Fraction, the sooner everyone stops giving it the attention the sooner it will stop its outdated, repetitive rhetoric. Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
John Caligan
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
32
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Posted - 2013.08.17 22:23:00 -
[89] - Quote
Uh... correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Heth currently sitting out somewhere in lowsec with Tolen after we chased his ass out of Haatomo?
The rest of his Dragionairs kind of got their asses handed to them if I recall. It was quite a fireworks show that I regret missing. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1478
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Posted - 2013.08.18 07:41:00 -
[90] - Quote
Yes. The Templis Dragonaurs are an terrorist organisation. Heth is somewhere in Black Rise - we don't know quite where. The Provists have been dismantled. |
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