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Warriors Fury
Fury and Love
2
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Posted - 2013.05.06 22:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
hello, ive done a little bit of research and i cannot find anything on the topic of POS research arrays and how to allow corp mates to use the pos, charge them isk to use the pos etc etc . the only articles i can find on the topic are from 2007 era, and im looking for some first hand knowledge that is more recent.
so here is what i am trying to do.
i have 4 towers anchored in empire, and these are for research / manufacture . i have the towers all setup, and online etc etc, easy. i went into the production line editing page, where i set all the prices for using the arrays that i wanted. then i put a few jobs to work, and all the fees were 0.00
have i done something wrong ? what do i need to do so that my corpmates can use the arrays, and pay the proper fees for this use.
can someone please explain, or post links as to how i can get this to work .
thanks. Warriors Fury ; CEO , Fury and Love ; Combat Industrial Corporation |
Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
1399
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Posted - 2013.05.06 23:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
Far as I know, the fee mechanic doesn't work.
With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
1790
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Posted - 2013.05.06 23:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
A guide to POS labs |
Warriors Fury
Fury and Love
2
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Posted - 2013.05.07 10:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thank you for posting a link to a guide that is 6 years out of date and does not contain the answers I'm looking for .
Rengerel : this is the answer that I seem to get quite often . This irritates me . I know these arrays and associated fees have been in the game since around the time I originally started playing back in 2005 . Why in the world would ccp have this function window if it does nothing for anyone for 8 years ?
The fees for building , taxation for refining , poco's etc is the lifeblood of any corp / alliance . Especially in 0.0 , the fees for these very same thing in outposts is what sustains an alliance . Why not have the fees on pos's working ? Warriors Fury ; CEO , Fury and Love ; Combat Industrial Corporation |
brinelan
The Flying Dead Mutual and Absolute Destruction
28
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Posted - 2013.05.07 13:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
not much has changed since that guide was written, and ya lab fees do work. |
Velicitia
Nex Exercitus
1498
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Posted - 2013.05.07 13:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
I seem to recall the fees working for me ... though, TBH I didn't really bother with them because of "it's a pain in the ass" One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Hopelesshobo
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade
4
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Posted - 2013.05.07 16:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
I think that at some point the ability to charge for lab use was removed. I have abused google and youtube on this topic, but I have found nothing. I have also tried to click every available button as well to get the charges to work while setting up research facilities. From what I can tell, CCP removed the code that allows us to change the access levels and the use fees on each lab, but didn't remove the code that allows us to view what the settings are defaulted to.
To charge your corpmates for lab use, you either have 3 basic choices. 1. Use the corp tax to fund the fuel 2. Charge people by the month for having the roles to access the labs 3. Attempt to do an honor system where people give ISK to the corp after starting a job. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
1795
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Posted - 2013.05.07 17:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
Warriors Fury wrote:Thank you for posting a link to a guide that is 6 years out of date and does not contain the answers I'm looking for . POSes haven't changed in 6 years (ya, it is sad), and yes, your questions are answered by it
3. How do I set the fees people pay to use my labs? 5. How can I set up my corp members to use my labs? 6. How are research fees collected?
You could even be proactive and contact New Eden Research for tips, as renting labs is their business. |
Emma Royd
Maddled Gommerils
236
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Posted - 2013.05.07 19:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
Pos mechanism is a clunky old beast ready to die but whilever it's breathing it's not been shot yet.
I don't think you can do what you're wanting to do, charging members to use the lab. I've got a lab set at 500isk install and 10 isk / hour running cost and have just set a quick copy job in, and because the pos system is garbage :
You can't install a job from your personal hangar to use a corp array for research - "Blueprint location and installation location are not compatible. You cannot install this blueprint from it's current location into the selected installation."
So then the member need to put his blueprint into a corp hangar which means it's open to everybody who has rights to take if they want to.
Once you've overcome this hurdle (there isn't a workaround I know of, it's a case of trusting people not to steal your blueprints)
When you install a job to a installation that has fees set, the money doesn't come from the wallet of the installer, it comes from the CORP wallet the installer has got assigned.
So the member needs to have a normally EMPTY corp wallet division assigned, and they have to put their isk into it for the amount the research job takes to run.
The system is so full of holes it's more porous than a tetley teabag.
While it may seem a good idea charging members to pay for your pos fuel, and also ensuring some fairness (why should a mission runner pay extra tax to fuel the pos etc) there are many obstacles in your way.
Pitfalls are anybody who can install a job can cancel a job Anyone who can install a job from the corp hangar can steal someone elses blueprint, even if you put it in and start the research straight away, it can be cancelled, the blueprint is returned to the hangar and stolen.
Or even if the job is allowed to run it's course and gets delivered, it can still be stolen.
I'm not saying that you've got a corp full of thieves, but put a big enough temptation in front of someone and one day they'll take it. Bearing in mind there's no proof of who took anything from a corp hangar.
Is it worth the risk |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1300
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Posted - 2013.05.07 21:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
Warriors Fury wrote:Thank you for posting a link to a guide that is 6 years out of date and does not contain the answers I'm looking for .
Bad attitude on your part aside, try reading the damned thing. Your questions ARE answered, and the fees do work (although as someone else said, they're a pain in the arse). "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
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Hopelesshobo
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade
4
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Posted - 2013.05.07 22:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ok, I just confirmed, to get the button "Manage Assembly Lines" to appear, you need the station manager role. Without that role you cannot charge people for the use of labs. |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
340
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Posted - 2013.05.07 22:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
Thanks, Tau for providing another good link .
Also, have another like Remove insurance. |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
314
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Posted - 2013.05.07 23:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
As many people have already mentioned, POS mechanics haven't fundamentally changed in six years. Roles are still badly setup and there is still tons of broken things around.
warriors fury wrote: Why in the world would ccp have this function window if it does nothing for anyone for 8 years ?
welcome to what the rest of us have been wondering for the past 8 years. Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
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Emma Royd
Maddled Gommerils
239
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Posted - 2013.05.08 09:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
Basically it's the mentality
"If it's not broke, erm we mean if it's not massively broke, or is that if it sorta works, then don't fix it."
Don't get me wrong, I know a full pos system re-write would be a massive undertaking and the damage that could be done if it's done wrong is huge, but it's a system that bearly works as it is, most things are just haphazzard but hey things generally get done.
Whether or not CCP ever get round to a full system overhaul remains to be seen, there are enough good ideas on the forum to give them a clue what needs to be done. I'll be happy if they get rid of the silly 3000m distance thing so flying a freighter in a pos to build some stuff doesn't end up being so frustrating.
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Warriors Fury
Fury and Love
2
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Posted - 2013.05.08 12:01:00 -
[15] - Quote
Some reading I've done basically says the following :
As far as stolen blueprints ,my corporation will purchase / provide most of the blueprints , those blueprints can be put on lockdown through a vote . While on lockdown they cannot be moved at all , even by directors / CEO's unless a vote is made to unlock them . A player could then be given "viewing access" to that hangar , which would allow them to right click the blueprint and using scientific networking skill , remotely begin research with the pos in that system . Invention and copying can also apparently be performed remotely using the same techniques , after dropping necesary mats into the same hangar . Resulting copies or inventions would have to be retrieved from the hangar by someone with take roles .
For manufacturing they can do the same process , except they would either use corp materials in another hangar , or dump there own materials into the blueprint hangar , and begin manufacture using the stations manufacture lines . All without risking the original blueprints because they are under lockdown .
As far as payment from the corp wallet , one could easily setup the lowermost wallet division for general corp use , give corp mates access to this division. . They would then place necesary money into this division , and start the job as someone mentioned before . Once started the isk apparently is moved to the master wallet , thereby "paying" the corporation for the use of the tower .
The part that I don't like about all of this , at least as I have found so far , is the exact roles needed to allow someone to actually use the pos arrays . Apparently in order to use the arrays a person needs star base management roles , or corporate research roles , station rental roles and the likes . These roles would allow someone , as mentioned before , to stop / cancel not only their own job , but anyone in the corps job . Or rent expensive offices , or unrent offices where stuff is stored .
So basically the blueprint theft and payments can be taken care of rather easily , but it's getting around the role requirements and ensuring security that still needs to be solved. Is there any way to do jobs remotely without needing the roles that could allow someone to unanchor the towers is my main concern .one thing I read suggested changin the roles needed to offline / unanchor the towers in the tower access menu , set those roles to something other than starbase manager , Wich would allow you to give out starbase manager without fear of someone offline / unanchor the towers . As far as the risk of someone canceling other people's jobs , there's not much one could do about that , and while its irritating , that in its own wouldn't be much of a threat to the corporation as a whole .
These are just my thoughts and possible work around a based on what I've read through so far , please let me know yours opinions , and especially if you've done some of these methods successfully , or have other successful ways please let me know . Warriors Fury ; CEO , Fury and Love ; Combat Industrial Corporation |
Warriors Fury
Fury and Love
2
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Posted - 2013.05.08 12:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
Emma Royd wrote: I'll be happy if they get rid of the silly 3000m distance thing so flying a freighter in a pos to build some stuff doesn't end up being so frustrating.
Thy are removing this requirement in odessy . Warriors Fury ; CEO , Fury and Love ; Combat Industrial Corporation |
Hopelesshobo
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade
6
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Posted - 2013.05.08 14:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
Warriors Fury wrote: The part that I don't like about all of this , at least as I have found so far , is the exact roles needed to allow someone to actually use the pos arrays . Apparently in order to use the arrays a person needs star base management roles , or corporate research roles , station rental roles and the likes . These roles would allow someone , as mentioned before , to stop / cancel not only their own job , but anyone in the corps job . Or rent expensive offices , or unrent offices where stuff is stored .
For access they never need rent office role. Starbase management role is also not needed unless that is how you have the access roles for the labs set up that way, you can set them to corporate/alliance.
The roles they need for basic research
- Hangar Access (Other) -- Based at will not work because the labs are not in a station, and for some reason the BPO still needs to access the Lab Hangars. With this logic I am sure that HQ will not work even if the POS is located in the same system as the POS. Although this does not make much sense because even only conducting basic ME/PE research requires this, even though someone in the alliance, who cannot access the labs hangars anyways, still needs (Other) access.
- Wallet Access --- Can be an empty wallet
- Factory Manager -- This should role should not be needed if the person has Ren Research Slot. The fact that it does is require this role is like giving your employee a key to run his machine to do his job, but keeping the door to the office he works at locked so he can't get in. The factory manager should be a position where he can deliver and cancel anyones jobs, while the Rent Research Slot role only allows the person to modify the jobs they have initiated.
- Rent Research Slot
I would like to see the capability for alliance members to use copying and invention slots, there is no reason not to other then there the fact that the person doing the researching needs Hangar Access (Other) to conduct research, and the labs do not have an alliance hangar to deposit the results from the research/manufacturing. The fact that labs and assembly arrays have an Alliance setting is proof in itself that the code for POS's is in need of revamping badly. |
Warriors Fury
Fury and Love
2
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Posted - 2013.05.08 14:30:00 -
[18] - Quote
I agree . I personaly feel that a tower should be able to be set so that any player in the game can access it , and be charge whatever fee the owning corporation has set for it , much like poco's . The towers have all these great setting just like a outpost settings , yet doesn't utilize any of them .
Thank you for all of your inputs , I think I have enough information to set up a guideline for the corporation . Warriors Fury ; CEO , Fury and Love ; Combat Industrial Corporation |
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