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Defying
Hateful Munitions Totally Consensual
13
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Posted - 2013.05.07 15:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
I posted this as a response to another forum thread, but I feel like it deserves its own thread... its a wall of text and kind of half chewed ideas but I hope people see where I am going with this......
*puts on flame suite and hateraid*
Several and when I several I mean pretty much all of the major 0.0 blocks, have an alt corp for FW in which they just massively plex. If any of you have alts in these corps you most likely already know because they have sent out corp/alliance mails about it. Most FW peeps all have alts in other factions as well just to make money off the winning/loosing side. Personally this is a problem that all of eve suffers from, its not one side or the other, its alts that ruin the mechanics. When Caldari was winning all the plexers switched sides over to us.... when gal started winning, they switched back to the mimintar!
Now I am not going to go on this "nerf alts" rampage, because thats just beating a dead horse, we all know better and it's not going to happen. The game mechanics need to be balanced in a way that you make more LP through FIGHTING IN PLEXES then just sitting there and hoping no one shows up!
They need to give LP bonuses to fights in plexes, based on ships destroyed or how long the enemy was there before you left... but instead all you get is penalties if you chase an enemy off you have to wait 30+ minutes and in that time the plex farmers just go farm 2-3 more sites while they know you are waiting on that one... or you leave to chase them and they just come back.
SImply put right now, you have to WANT good fights in plexes to get them... You have to go poke a home system for the enemy, and stir up the bee hive in some way and the people who want to come out and fight generally will come out and fight.
Those of us who know how and where to get the good fights, are not missing out on the fights.... Hell I have had more good fights in the past 5 days then the 90 of being in 0.0.
As a result, I have some decent ideas on how to make plexes more "fighty" and less "flighty"
1.) Give bonuses for LP based on the number of pilots in a plex, instead of splitting it add a multiplier bonus to it. This mechanic has worked in many other RvR games, to encourages pilots/players to fly together, instead of selfishly trying to take plexes solo in stabbed cloak ships. Big fleets sitting, draw big fights.
2.) If a fight of any kind goes down in a plex, ADD to the lp that the plex is worth until its taken.. This encourages the losers of a fight to reship, and also again gives interest to even solo plexers, because the risk of staying and fighting now has a higher reward....
3.) Ditch the timmer system and use a bar. It starts in the middle and goes either left or right. The more people in the plex of a specific faction the faster it goes. DO NOT STOP THE BAR IF THERE IS A FIGHT! If no one is in the plex, the bar starts to go back to the neutral middle area.
3.) Ditch the dumb ass tier system, and instead transfer its bonuses to systems that have been captured. Go back to decreasing prices for LP, but put the LP stores in low sec, and base the LP bonuses soloy in the systems that have been taken and upgraded.... base the bonuses of course on the upgrade level of the system. This creates value in systems and gives corps/alliances invested interest in keeping and holding a system. It also will balance the market because things like navy drakes and CNRs will need to be transported in and out of low sec.. making their prices valuable again (aside from the ones coming from high sec) You might have to increase the amount of LP it takes to upgrade systems as a result.
4.) Stop the "Alt Snowballing effect" that happens when one side starts winning, all the plexers or others just join that side because its "easy isk". Something like shorter defensive timers, or more LP from plexes for the sides that are loosing, will cause the alts to "balance" themselves, because it will no longer be as profitable to jump sides as soon as you think the other side has easier offensive plexing, or because they have a higher tier system.
5.) Everyone should be able to make ISK in FW, however FW is kind of like Null "lite" and as a result the mechanics should be based kind of around its "mini sov" system. Corps and alliances that decide they want to take and hold a handful of systems should be rewarded for doing so.
Right now as it stands, the plexers and pvpers have separated mindsets..... PvPers dont want to wait in plexes for 15 minutes in hope of a fight, and plexers don't want to fight. There needs to be work done to bring those two together.
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Cal Stantson
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
36
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Posted - 2013.05.07 15:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
Points 1, 3a, and 3b are horribly exploitable. Point 2 would in practice be meaningless. Points 4 and 5 aren't actually so bad. |
Defying
Hateful Munitions Totally Consensual
13
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 15:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cal Stantson wrote:Points 1, 3a, and 3b are horribly exploitable. Point 2 would in practice be meaningless. Points 4 and 5 aren't actually so bad.
Please discuss how "exploitable" they are and is it worse then our current mechanics? |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1382
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 16:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Defying wrote:Cal Stantson wrote:Points 1, 3a, and 3b are horribly exploitable. Point 2 would in practice be meaningless. Points 4 and 5 aren't actually so bad. Please discuss how "exploitable" they are and is it worse then our current mechanics? Only small changes are needed to make it less efficient for farmers to farm. At some point Incursions or some other farming mechanic will be better and easier, and then most of the the farmers will head that way.
Hopefully the changes are structured so they maximize the "damage to farmers"/"damage to pvpers" ratio. |
Defying
Hateful Munitions Totally Consensual
13
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 16:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Defying wrote:Cal Stantson wrote:Points 1, 3a, and 3b are horribly exploitable. Point 2 would in practice be meaningless. Points 4 and 5 aren't actually so bad. Please discuss how "exploitable" they are and is it worse then our current mechanics? Only small changes are needed to make it less efficient for farmers to farm. At some point Incursions or some other farming mechanic will be better and easier, and then most of the the farmers will head that way. Hopefully the changes are structured so they maximize the "damage to farmers"/"damage to pvpers" ratio.
The issue I see with all the "small changes" people have thought about XG, is that yeah it kills the farming but it also makes the "sov grind" even more "grindy".
XG, you have been around a while, and as we all know you have this umm.. way with words ;) What would you prepose? |
Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
518
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 16:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
CCP is no longer working on FW fixes. They're not even working on bugs like spawning more large plexes. So this and other suggestion threads won't have any impact on the future of FW. High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve . |
Defying
Hateful Munitions Totally Consensual
13
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 16:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:CCP is no longer working on FW fixes. They're not even working on bugs like spawning more large plexes. So this and other suggestion threads won't have any impact on the future of FW.
Ahh Dean, as always your presence anywhere is "lovely"... So you know this because you guys got your dude in CCP right? ;);):)
If we yell CCP will respond... its just a matter of getting enough voices to care.... |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1382
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 16:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
Defying wrote:XG, you have been around a while, and as we all know you have this umm.. way with words ;) What would you prepose? The reality is that they are done with FW for a while, so proposals for massive changes are kind of worthless.
Two things:
1) The first thing they need to do is implement timer rollbacks (that they "promised" at fanfest this year).
2) Increase repping dps of rats. The current version of the rats were promised to be strong enough for a given plex in that they should rep enough dps so that a ship of an appropriate size could kill them. (Rat dps is pathetic atm, which means they really don't affect pvp inside plexes right now). However, the rats are still too weak. For example, a frigate should not be able to solo a medium plex which is intended for cruiser size combat. The devs should be able to boost the repping amount of these rats pretty easily since they specifically put that "knob" into the mechanic so they can adjust it. Hopefully they do it soon.
Implement these two things. See what happens, and go from there. |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1300
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 16:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
I would add (this is me beating a dead horse) that only FW members can enter plexes. More comments probably when I finish reading your wall of text (I mean that in a good way, but I'm at work right now). "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
518
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 16:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
Defying wrote:Deen Wispa wrote:CCP is no longer working on FW fixes. They're not even working on bugs like spawning more large plexes. So this and other suggestion threads won't have any impact on the future of FW. Ahh Dean, as always your presence anywhere is "lovely"... So you know this because you guys got your dude in CCP right? ;);):) If we yell CCP will respond... its just a matter of getting enough voices to care....
Look through the last 10 pages of this subforum. Don't you think there's been alot of people "yelling" at CCP to fix most of what you suggested? There's more than enough people who have shown they care via threads, blogs, and other forms of communication
You're looking at FW from a gamer's perspective. You have to look at it from a corporate entity perspective; which is what CCP is. Once you look at it from their perspective, you'll see that all the signs are pointing to no more development. I don't need an insider in CCP to know this.
FYI- It took CCP 3-4 years from the initial introduction of FW before they finally worked on it again with the Inferno and Retribution expansion. In those 3-4 years, the same vets here moaned and whined on the forums. They will revisit it again in 3-4 years. It's not the answer you want to hear. But it is the answer. High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve . |
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Defying
Hateful Munitions Totally Consensual
13
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 16:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Defying wrote:XG, you have been around a while, and as we all know you have this umm.. way with words ;) What would you prepose? The reality is that they are done with FW for a while, so proposals for massive changes are kind of worthless. Two things: 1) The first thing they need to do is implement timer rollbacks (that they "promised" at fanfest this year). 2) Increase repping dps of rats. The current version of the rats were promised to be strong enough for a given plex in that they should rep enough dps so that a ship of an appropriate size could kill them. (Rat dps is pathetic atm, which means they really don't affect pvp inside plexes right now). However, the rats are still too weak. For example, a frigate should not be able to solo a medium plex which is intended for cruiser size combat. The devs should be able to boost the repping amount of these rats pretty easily since they specifically put that "knob" into the mechanic so they can adjust it. Hopefully they do it soon. Implement these two things. See what happens, and go from there.
I agree with timer roll backs completely...
However point 2 concerns me.. I agree that it needs to be done, but then wont we just see cloaky stabbed out cruisers, or the plex farmers just getting together in 3 or 4 frigs and plexing out the mediums?
XG, as we both know Mediums are really the only plexes worth value when you are really trying to take or defend a system. He who controls the mediums in a system will ultimately be able to take or defend a system.
Which is why I feel like LP should scale with the number of friendly pilots in the plex. This means plexing only really becomes profitable if a fleet does it.... and combined with a "ramping" type LP system based on fighting there... then that means the most profitable way of earning LP would be to get in a fleet and go fight other fleets in plexes.
|
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1383
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 17:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
Defying wrote:
However point 2 concerns me.. I agree that it needs to be done, but then wont we just see cloaky stabbed out cruisers, or the plex farmers just getting together in 3 or 4 frigs and plexing out the mediums?
XG, as we both know Mediums are really the only plexes worth value when you are really trying to take or defend a system. He who controls the mediums in a system will ultimately be able to take or defend a system.
Which is why I feel like LP should scale with the number of friendly pilots in the plex. This means plexing only really becomes profitable if a fleet does it.... and combined with a "ramping" type LP system based on fighting there... then that means the most profitable way of earning LP would be to get in a fleet and go fight other fleets in plexes.
We may see cloaky cruisers in medium plexes, but then the farmer will need more than one ship to run all of the plexes. Things are a little bit tougher for him, but not tougher for the guys interested in pew. Anyways, those are the first two steps that CCP clearly ought to take. If they don't work, then on to the next one. |
Defying
Hateful Munitions Totally Consensual
13
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 17:08:00 -
[13] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:Defying wrote:Deen Wispa wrote:CCP is no longer working on FW fixes. They're not even working on bugs like spawning more large plexes. So this and other suggestion threads won't have any impact on the future of FW. Ahh Dean, as always your presence anywhere is "lovely"... So you know this because you guys got your dude in CCP right? ;);):) If we yell CCP will respond... its just a matter of getting enough voices to care.... Look through the last 10 pages of this subforum. Don't you think there's been alot of people "yelling" at CCP to fix most of what you suggested? There's more than enough people who have shown they care via threads, blogs, and other forms of communication You're looking at FW from a gamer's perspective. You have to look at it from a corporate entity perspective; which is what CCP is. Once you look at it from their perspective, you'll see that all the signs are pointing to no more development. I don't need an insider in CCP to know this. FYI- It took CCP 3-4 years from the initial introduction of FW before they finally worked on it again with the Inferno and Retribution expansion. In those 3-4 years, the same vets here moaned and whined on the forums. They will revisit it again in 3-4 years. It's not the answer you want to hear. But it is the answer.
Deen,
I bet you are just a joy to fly with, you seem very cynical. You also make the mistake of thinking that I have not been around for the full time that factional warfare has been implemented. I have been playing eve for almost 9 years now. I know how **** works, most likely better then you. I have came and seen far many more busted game mechanics get fixed when people started bitching on the forums, then you most likely have even experienced.
So instead of coming in here and being well.. Deen... why not contribute to the conversation or kindly GTFO. I really think XG could teach you a few things in the way of how to use your words.
CCP IS looking at FW mechanics, just as they look at all their mechanics. They however like all things have to wait for player feed back to be generated in masses, and as well as their "numbers" to be logged and crunched.
Its funny how you say they aren't even looking at fixing it anymore, but your own corp mate just above you says they made a promise at fanfest..... Your discouragement serves no purpose but to harm yourself at the end of the day.
*edit*
Removed question to XG because he answered it above
*end edit* |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
935
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 17:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Defying wrote:XG, you have been around a while, and as we all know you have this umm.. way with words ;) What would you prepose? The reality is that they are done with FW for a while, so proposals for massive changes are kind of worthless. Two things: 1) The first thing they need to do is implement timer rollbacks (that they "promised" at fanfest this year). 2) Increase repping dps of rats. The current version of the rats were promised to be strong enough for a given plex in that they should rep enough dps so that a ship of an appropriate size could kill them. (Rat dps is pathetic atm, which means they really don't affect pvp inside plexes right now). However, the rats are still too weak. For example, a frigate should not be able to solo a medium plex which is intended for cruiser size combat. The devs should be able to boost the repping amount of these rats pretty easily since they specifically put that "knob" into the mechanic so they can adjust it. Hopefully they do it soon. Implement these two things. See what happens, and go from there.
I disagree that a frigate should not be able to solo a medium due to npcs. I think it should be pvpers showing up in cruisers and hacs that prevent the frigate pilot from soloing a medium. But anyway:
I suppose top skilled gank fit blaster figates might be able to chew through the cruisers but for the most frigates they typicially can't solo a medium. Certainly most week old farm alts in cheap throw away frigates cant chew through the medium plex npcs.
Going in a medium with rats attacking your frigate is already annoying enough to force warpouts and end the possibility of getting pvp there. I don't think it needs to be made worse. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1383
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 17:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
Defying wrote:Do you think these small changes would serve to fix the system, or just require that the plex farmers slightly adjust their means? You'll never get rid of pure farmers, but at some point the pendulum will shift just enough to make them tolerable. The two proposed changes may not be enough, but they are clearly the next two steps CCP ought to take (IMO).
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Andre Vauban
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
104
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 17:11:00 -
[16] - Quote
Defying wrote: Which is why I feel like LP should scale with the number of friendly pilots in the plex. This means plexing only really becomes profitable if a fleet does it.... and combined with a "ramping" type LP system based on fighting there... then that means the most profitable way of earning LP would be to get in a fleet and go fight other fleets in plexes.
This will just encourage blobbing and destroy the one thing that makes FW special in Eve, small gangs actually matter. FW is in the best shape it has ever been in. Only a few minor things need to be done to tweak the system and CCP has stated that they currently have other priorities and FW is not getting any development other than some trivial fixes.
. |
Defying
Hateful Munitions Totally Consensual
13
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 17:15:00 -
[17] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Defying wrote:
However point 2 concerns me.. I agree that it needs to be done, but then wont we just see cloaky stabbed out cruisers, or the plex farmers just getting together in 3 or 4 frigs and plexing out the mediums?
XG, as we both know Mediums are really the only plexes worth value when you are really trying to take or defend a system. He who controls the mediums in a system will ultimately be able to take or defend a system.
Which is why I feel like LP should scale with the number of friendly pilots in the plex. This means plexing only really becomes profitable if a fleet does it.... and combined with a "ramping" type LP system based on fighting there... then that means the most profitable way of earning LP would be to get in a fleet and go fight other fleets in plexes.
We may see cloaky cruisers in medium plexes, but then the farmer will need more than one ship to run all of the plexes. Things are a little bit tougher for him, but not tougher for the guys interested in pew. Anyways, those are the first two steps that CCP clearly ought to take. If they don't work, then on to the next one. (Edit: Also, the combination of novice and small are the real keys to victory. They take the least amount of time to run and you can potentially do both in frig fleets)
I can concur with you on a couple notes, that I guess the farmer wont just be able to run around in his atron for 32834353242 hours on end and get 325774523754854 lp, so I suppose that would indeed be a nice fix.
Now lets talk about the smalls and novices, at the current rate of spawns, as well as the amount that each one contributes towards the system capture or defense. You can ignore almost all of the smalls and novices and still be able to plex the system to 100 or down to 0.
Sure you might need to capture a small or a novice here and there to make things a little faster, but if you are looking to take or defend a system you can ALMOST completely ignore novices and smalls. Not because of the time it takes to run them, but because of the busted spawn rates.
It takes what 4 novices or 2/3 smalls to equal out what a single medium does?
I stand by the fact that if you can control the mediums in a system, you can control the system, maybe not as fast as you would like, but at the end of the day you will win the "grind" |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
935
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 17:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Defying wrote:Do you think these small changes would serve to fix the system, or just require that the plex farmers slightly adjust their means? You'll never get rid of pure farmers, but at some point the pendulum will shift just enough to make them tolerable. The two proposed changes may not be enough, but they are clearly the next two steps CCP ought to take (IMO).
IMO some small changes can have a big impact. A Rollback system properly tweaked might solve most of the issues. If not there are other small changes that can definitely make fw sov a pvp mechanic. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
478
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 17:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
Defying wrote:Now lets talk about the smalls and novices, at the current rate of spawns, as well as the amount that each one contributes towards the system capture or defense. You can ignore almost all of the smalls and novices and still be able to plex the system to 100 or down to 0.
Sure you might need to capture a small or a novice here and there to make things a little faster, but if you are looking to take or defend a system you can ALMOST completely ignore novices and smalls. Not because of the time it takes to run them, but because of the busted spawn rates.
It takes what 4 novices or 2/3 smalls to equal out what a single medium does?
I stand by the fact that if you can control the mediums in a system, you can control the system, maybe not as fast as you would like, but at the end of the day you will win the "grind"
No offence intended, but this makes no sense. Smalls and novices take less time to run, spawn identically to Medium plexes, and give the same % change to system contested status. if anything, Mediums don't matter as long as you control the small's and novices? |
Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
519
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 17:20:00 -
[20] - Quote
No need to be so sensitive and angry about this. People are going to disagree with you and you have to learn how to handle things in a proper manner. Stating an opinion opposite of yours doesn't make me cynical. I'd even write a paragraph or two stating how I came to my conclusion but I know you wouldn't bother entertaining the thought. Also stating that you played for 9 years doesn't make you a pro. Because if you were, you would know CCP's track record with FW and many other aspects of the game such as nullsec or industry.
If XG can link me where CCP is actually going to implement rollback timers, I'd love to see it. Can anyone else confirm this? Sometimes the playerbase can infer things on CCP's behalf that isn't always there. I've seen it many times. OGB is one such example. High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve . |
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Defying
Hateful Munitions Totally Consensual
13
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 17:20:00 -
[21] - Quote
Andre Vauban wrote:Defying wrote: Which is why I feel like LP should scale with the number of friendly pilots in the plex. This means plexing only really becomes profitable if a fleet does it.... and combined with a "ramping" type LP system based on fighting there... then that means the most profitable way of earning LP would be to get in a fleet and go fight other fleets in plexes.
This will just encourage blobbing and destroy the one thing that makes FW special in Eve, small gangs actually matter. FW is in the best shape it has ever been in. Only a few minor things need to be done to tweak the system and CCP has stated that they currently have other priorities and FW is not getting any development other than some trivial fixes.
I mean what do you consider a blob? I mean they can easly put a cap that says ok after 20 pilots thats the peak of the LP gain.....
If im in 5 frigs, and you come in with 15.. was I blobbed?
If I have 20 frigs, and you come in with 35 frigs was I blobbed?
Blob is like good and evil, its a relative term, and its almost like nukes, people are only afraid of them, if they are not the one doing it. I have never once seen a gallente force go "you know what.. they only have 15 people in that novice, lets only bring 15 people."
EVERYONE is ALWAYS going to bring as many people as they can, and whining about blobs just means you should go to high sec and war dec people. Its less blobby there.
Further more, I think its comical that QCats, takes the time to complain about blob warfare... like wtf. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1383
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 17:24:00 -
[22] - Quote
Search for Faction War Roundtable |
Defying
Hateful Munitions Totally Consensual
13
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 17:25:00 -
[23] - Quote
chatgris wrote:Defying wrote:Now lets talk about the smalls and novices, at the current rate of spawns, as well as the amount that each one contributes towards the system capture or defense. You can ignore almost all of the smalls and novices and still be able to plex the system to 100 or down to 0.
Sure you might need to capture a small or a novice here and there to make things a little faster, but if you are looking to take or defend a system you can ALMOST completely ignore novices and smalls. Not because of the time it takes to run them, but because of the busted spawn rates.
It takes what 4 novices or 2/3 smalls to equal out what a single medium does?
I stand by the fact that if you can control the mediums in a system, you can control the system, maybe not as fast as you would like, but at the end of the day you will win the "grind" No offence intended, but this makes no sense. Smalls and novices take less time to run, spawn identically to Medium plexes, and give the same % change to system contested status. if anything, Mediums don't matter as long as you control the small's and novices?
Ummm? No?
I mean you may be right about the spawn mechanics because I havent timed them my self... but we already have tested the system capture status for the various plex sides, and they are not all created equal |
Defying
Hateful Munitions Totally Consensual
13
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 17:44:00 -
[24] - Quote
Quote:I left that to attend the Faction War round table. The bloody farmers were out in force and they were a big topic. Warp core stabs and cloaking Daredevils were talked about extensively. CCP may change the rats to make warp core stabs a poor choice!
Another good thing was button counters slowly resetting so those bouncing from plex to plex whilst being chased would lose their "hard earnt" work to that point.
Large plex spawning is not working as intended. There is a bug that needs to be squashed, but first needs to be found.
CCP want to split militia and allied militia in the overview so you can shoot your allied militia if you want.
The bug where friendly rats shoot you is a bug! Needs fixing.
Talked about giving neuts a suspect flag if they enter a plex. Good idea!
CCP want to iterate further on system control and benefits for having high upgrade levels.
All good stuff but as expected FW is not going to get any significant developer resources for the foreseeable future.
Sadly we are not going to get any significant developer resources.... which is kind of sad :( |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
935
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 17:51:00 -
[25] - Quote
Defying wrote:chatgris wrote:Defying wrote:Now lets talk about the smalls and novices, at the current rate of spawns, as well as the amount that each one contributes towards the system capture or defense. You can ignore almost all of the smalls and novices and still be able to plex the system to 100 or down to 0.
Sure you might need to capture a small or a novice here and there to make things a little faster, but if you are looking to take or defend a system you can ALMOST completely ignore novices and smalls. Not because of the time it takes to run them, but because of the busted spawn rates.
It takes what 4 novices or 2/3 smalls to equal out what a single medium does?
I stand by the fact that if you can control the mediums in a system, you can control the system, maybe not as fast as you would like, but at the end of the day you will win the "grind" No offence intended, but this makes no sense. Smalls and novices take less time to run, spawn identically to Medium plexes, and give the same % change to system contested status. if anything, Mediums don't matter as long as you control the small's and novices? Ummm? No? I mean you may be right about the spawn mechanics because I havent timed them my self... but we already have tested the system capture status for the various plex sides, and they are not all created equal
Unless they changed something the only difference you see is due to rounding. Chatgris is right. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Defying
Hateful Munitions Totally Consensual
13
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 18:02:00 -
[26] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Defying wrote:chatgris wrote:Defying wrote:Now lets talk about the smalls and novices, at the current rate of spawns, as well as the amount that each one contributes towards the system capture or defense. You can ignore almost all of the smalls and novices and still be able to plex the system to 100 or down to 0.
Sure you might need to capture a small or a novice here and there to make things a little faster, but if you are looking to take or defend a system you can ALMOST completely ignore novices and smalls. Not because of the time it takes to run them, but because of the busted spawn rates.
It takes what 4 novices or 2/3 smalls to equal out what a single medium does?
I stand by the fact that if you can control the mediums in a system, you can control the system, maybe not as fast as you would like, but at the end of the day you will win the "grind" No offence intended, but this makes no sense. Smalls and novices take less time to run, spawn identically to Medium plexes, and give the same % change to system contested status. if anything, Mediums don't matter as long as you control the small's and novices? Ummm? No? I mean you may be right about the spawn mechanics because I havent timed them my self... but we already have tested the system capture status for the various plex sides, and they are not all created equal Unless they changed something the only difference you see is due to rounding. Chatgris is right.
If thats the case we will relook.. it could be rounding but it seems like mediums do almost a full % where as novices only give you about .4 and smalls about .6
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
478
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Posted - 2013.05.07 18:16:00 -
[27] - Quote
Defying wrote:If thats the case we will relook.. it could be rounding but it seems like mediums do almost a full % where as novices only give you about .4 and smalls about .6
I am pretty sure that all of them give 0.6% each, but due to rounding it'll be about 2% for all three. (I think it's really like 0.66% or something).
I'll look closer tonight when I do my usual alt deplexing. |
Defying
Hateful Munitions Totally Consensual
14
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Posted - 2013.05.07 18:25:00 -
[28] - Quote
chatgris wrote:Defying wrote:If thats the case we will relook.. it could be rounding but it seems like mediums do almost a full % where as novices only give you about .4 and smalls about .6
I am pretty sure that all of them give 0.6% each, but due to rounding it'll be about 2% for all three. (I think it's really like 0.66% or something). I'll look closer tonight when I do my usual alt deplexing.
Thanks Bro! We will do the same :) |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
935
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Posted - 2013.05.07 18:27:00 -
[29] - Quote
Defying wrote:Cearain wrote:Defying wrote:chatgris wrote:
No offence intended, but this makes no sense. Smalls and novices take less time to run, spawn identically to Medium plexes, and give the same % change to system contested status. if anything, Mediums don't matter as long as you control the small's and novices?
Ummm? No? I mean you may be right about the spawn mechanics because I havent timed them my self... but we already have tested the system capture status for the various plex sides, and they are not all created equal Unless they changed something the only difference you see is due to rounding. Chatgris is right. If thats the case we will relook.. it could be rounding but it seems like mediums do almost a full % where as novices only give you about .4 and smalls about .6
If I remember right, I think they all used to be either .6 or .7 depending on rounding.
Defying wrote:
Sadly we are not going to get any significant developer resources.... which is kind of sad :(
I used to think this too. But really ccp has been very very good since crucible.
They had already planned on doing a timer rollback in retribution but it didn't quite make the cut. I think it came up in the roundtable so I think this will happen. How soon will depends on several things which I do not know.
CCP also indicated that they are receptive to delivering better intel tools to faction war players. Maybe like a channel in which players can readilly see where plexes are currently being captured, maybe some other type of ui intel tool to let us know where plexes are being captured. Obviously this would help prevent people from hiding and plexing and lead to more fights in plexes.
However what they said was interesting. They said they liked it so much that perhaps it shouldn't just be limited to faction war, and it should apply to other areas of space. So it's quite possible they will develop this interface while working on some other mechanic like null sec, and add it to faction war as a bonus.
So the rollbacks might happen even if they don't put significant resources into fw. And the intel tool might happen as a spin off to their putting significant resources into other areas of space. If these 2 things happen plexing can indeed be a pvp game.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Andre Vauban
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
105
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Posted - 2013.05.07 18:28:00 -
[30] - Quote
Defying wrote:Andre Vauban wrote:Defying wrote: Which is why I feel like LP should scale with the number of friendly pilots in the plex. This means plexing only really becomes profitable if a fleet does it.... and combined with a "ramping" type LP system based on fighting there... then that means the most profitable way of earning LP would be to get in a fleet and go fight other fleets in plexes.
This will just encourage blobbing and destroy the one thing that makes FW special in Eve, small gangs actually matter. FW is in the best shape it has ever been in. Only a few minor things need to be done to tweak the system and CCP has stated that they currently have other priorities and FW is not getting any development other than some trivial fixes. I mean what do you consider a blob? I mean they can easly put a cap that says ok after 20 pilots thats the peak of the LP gain..... If im in 5 frigs, and you come in with 15.. was I blobbed? If I have 20 frigs, and you come in with 35 frigs was I blobbed? Blob is like good and evil, its a relative term, and its almost like nukes, people are only afraid of them, if they are not the one doing it. I have never once seen a gallente force go "you know what.. they only have 15 people in that novice, lets only bring 15 people." EVERYONE is ALWAYS going to bring as many people as they can, and whining about blobs just means you should go to high sec and war dec people. Its less blobby there. Further more, I think its comical that QCats, takes the time to complain about blob warfare... like wtf.
The current system encourages pilots to spread out and cover as many plexes as possible. This does the most to help the warzone and it does the most for each pilots individual wallet. In other words, the current system pushes for each side to take plexes using the absolute minimum number of pilots to take each plex. The current system does not push you to bring as many people as you can, but rather spread as many people as you can out everywhere at once.
Your proposal means 2 pilots taking 1 plex make more LP than 2 pilots taking 2 plexes. This will push people into larger and larger gangs. If this is the combat you seek, go to null sec.
As far as QCATS blobbing, we deliberately ostracized ourselves from the rest of Gallente Militia to cut down on the blobbing as we felt we were losing our skill form flying in such large gangs all the time. Please look at these pie-charts and tell me again that we blob: http://www.eve-census.com/corp/Quantum%20Cats%20Syndicate http://www.eve-census.com/corp/Hateful%20Munitions
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