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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope Gallente Federation
111
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:08:00 -
[151] - Quote
We are never going to agree. You believe that the number of hours a week defines the player, while I believe it is what they do that defines them.
Do you wish to leave it here?
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Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
854
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:18:00 -
[152] - Quote
No, I believe that the overall game time is a drastically underrepresented factor in discussing players' interests from a game design perspective; that is it in fact the most important factor. Furthermore, this under-representation serves no one but the more hardcore gamers who can falsely conflate their selfish interests for risk/reward balance with the casual gamers interests for accessible and fun content that suits their limited playtime, where risk-reward balancing for them is actually a secondary ancillary choice after their playtime is factored in.
The core of the game is what people are actually doing when they log in in terms of actively engaging the game environment and/or other players. Whether that comes in the form of shooting spacerocks, red crosses or other players and the income that ultimately results therefrom is a distantly second consideration.
That you think someone who undocks in nullsec for 30 minutes to shoot red crosses differs from someone who does the same in hisec to shoot spacerocks shows a massive lack of exposure to the game as a whole, and a passive or active acceptance of the long-standing false confluence that I have been arguing against for three pages now.
You're welcome to disagree, but you're still wrong. |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope Gallente Federation
111
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:32:00 -
[153] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:
You're welcome to disagree, but you're still wrong.
You are welcome to run for CSM next year with that platform. |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
854
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:45:00 -
[154] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:You are welcome to run for CSM next year with that platform.
Even in the current state of the discourse, it might work. However, what I'm arguing for is a continental shift in the discourse itself, so that the discourse surrounding proceeding CSMs is more relevant to and representative of players' actual interests, so your comment is ultimately meaningless and in no way addresses my argument.
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Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope Gallente Federation
111
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:49:00 -
[155] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:You are welcome to run for CSM next year with that platform. Even in the current state of the discourse, it might work. However, what I'm arguing for is a continental shift in the discourse itself, so that the discourse surrounding proceeding CSMs is more relevant to and representative of players' actual interests, so your comment is ultimately meaningless and in no way addresses my argument. Wouldn't your arguments be more effective iif you were on the CSM?
What if you are right and there are tens of thousands of players wait for what you represent?
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Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
854
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:57:00 -
[156] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote: Wouldn't your arguments be more effective iif you were on the CSM? What if you are right and there are tens of thousands of players wait for what you represent?
And again you've gone so far off topic that I don't feel the need to respond.
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Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope Gallente Federation
112
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Posted - 2013.05.09 18:24:00 -
[157] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote: Wouldn't your arguments be more effective iif you were on the CSM? What if you are right and there are tens of thousands of players wait for what you represent? And again you've gone so far off topic that I don't feel the need to respond. So you know you are right... and others are wrong, but you aren't willing to put that to the test?
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Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
854
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Posted - 2013.05.09 18:38:00 -
[158] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:So you know you are right... and others are wrong, but you aren't willing to put that to the test?
First of all, I never said that I wouldnt be willing to put my argument to an appropriate test. Second, your suggested method of "testing" wouldn't be valid, for the reason that I just explained two posts ago. Finally, you're attacking a strawman about what CSM (edit:candidates) should be doing that I never argued for; I am arguing for a change in the very discourse, what happens with the CSM would be an issue that would come later and be dependent on the success of what I am actually arguing for.
Please though, continue trying to "get me" with off-topic arguments, as I'm pretty sure an ISD will just erase this tangential "discussion" eventually anyway. |
Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
439
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Posted - 2013.05.09 18:52:00 -
[159] - Quote
Great stats! As my ballot was unique in its composition, I was able to find it and see my vote was indeed not wasted like so many times before, even though I only had 3 people on it. Nightmares - A short story by Ch+¬ Biko |
Orisa Medeem
Hedion University Amarr Empire
34
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Posted - 2013.05.09 20:51:00 -
[160] - Quote
I'd like to see some statistics about people that voted for the pre-election, but didn't vote for the main election. In my understanding, it is very likely that people in these conditions misunderstood the process. :sand: -áover -á:awesome: |
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Poetic Stanziel
Paxton Industries Gentlemen's Agreement
1878
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Posted - 2013.05.10 01:40:00 -
[161] - Quote
mynnna wrote:If anything we're under represented. New voting system needed! Amarr Militia - Fweddit - http://fweddit.com Poetic Discourse - http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com |
Megarom
Shiva The Retirement Club
4
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Posted - 2013.05.10 14:41:00 -
[162] - Quote
mynnna wrote: Both of these are really bizarre because of the top 2 results, especially the first one. The rule of thumb for that is (or was supposed to be) "appearing anywhere is an advantage for top 2" yet Ripard and I got it, with no less than eight candidates above us who had more appearances anywhere.
I'm sure there's an explanation and it will make sense if I were to trace the audit log for the top two, it's just unintuitive.
There reason is the part of the voting system that decides who to eliminate. If you have the least 1st spots + transferred votes when the butcher calls you will be eliminated even if you were 14th on all ballots.
Right Trebor?
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2111
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Posted - 2013.05.10 20:08:00 -
[163] - Quote
Megarom wrote:mynnna wrote: Both of these are really bizarre because of the top 2 results, especially the first one. The rule of thumb for that is (or was supposed to be) "appearing anywhere is an advantage for top 2" yet Ripard and I got it, with no less than eight candidates above us who had more appearances anywhere.
I'm sure there's an explanation and it will make sense if I were to trace the audit log for the top two, it's just unintuitive.
There reason is the part of the voting system that decides who to eliminate. If you have the least 1st spots + transferred votes when the butcher calls you will be eliminated even if you were 14th on all ballots. Right Trebor?
So if every voter placed Mynna as their second place choice, Mynna'd be eliminated in the round for having no votes.
That's an interesting result! |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
1010
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Posted - 2013.05.11 01:21:00 -
[164] - Quote
Che Biko wrote:Great stats! As my ballot was unique in its composition, I was able to find it and see my vote was indeed not wasted like so many times before, even though I only had 3 people on it.
If your vote was unique & described thusly there's probably a good chance you where the one that gammed the ballot which caused the ballot results delay? If so how did ya do it? & did CCP contact you about it? An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta theTerminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system'scrashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children' |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
1010
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Posted - 2013.05.11 01:25:00 -
[165] - Quote
Orisa Medeem wrote:I'd like to see some statistics about people that voted for the pre-election, but didn't vote for the main election. In my understanding, it is very likely that people in these conditions misunderstood the process.
CCP striped the names off too guarrenty anomnimity so I doubt those stats are easily available also in the endorsement prcess it was possible to giv multiple endorsements after your endorsee announced they had made it you could endorse a new candidate ( I did this multiple times ) An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta theTerminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system'scrashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children' |
Reachok
Full Circle Research Corporation
11
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Posted - 2013.05.11 01:57:00 -
[166] - Quote
I'm f*cking confused, don't try to explain it to me.
The bad guys went the other way, seriously.... |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1310
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Posted - 2013.05.11 02:18:00 -
[167] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:CCP striped the names off too guarrenty anomnimity so I doubt those stats are easily available also in the endorsement prcess it was possible to giv multiple endorsements after your endorsee announced they had made it you could endorse a new candidate ( I did this multiple times )
They did say they recorded which accounts voted, they just didn't associate an account with a ballot when the ballots were recorded. Assuming they kept the same records for the primary portion, this is definitely a doable stat, and even if they don't publish it, they should definitely find it at least for themselves for future educational purposes. "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
446
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Posted - 2013.05.11 12:17:00 -
[168] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:If your vote was unique & described thusly there's probably a good chance you where the one that gammed the ballot which caused the ballot results delay? If so how did ya do it? & did CCP contact you about it? I don't think so. For one thing, there are ~hundreds of ballots with a unique composition. And I did not do this:CCP Dolan wrote:[..] 3 of the 49,702 votes had somehow entered the same candidates into multiple preference slots. I had 3 different candidates on my ballot, none of them in multiple slots. Nightmares - A short story by Ch+¬ Biko |
Draqone an'Alreigh
EVE University Ivy League
21
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Posted - 2013.05.11 13:36:00 -
[169] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:What "hisec" self-identifiers should be concerned about is "casual" gameplay. That is one perspective that is hard to mesh with an imaginary space council. I would say it is literally impossible to be a "casual" player and be an effective CSM. Therefore, the self-identified "hisec" bloc should be voting for those candidates that purposefully and continuously acknowledge and listen to feedback from casual players. Only then can you hope that your playstyle won't be stomped into the mud by changes because no one in CCP or on the CSM even know what makes the game for you.
Unfortunately, casual players have long been spoken for by a select few hisec turbonerd forum warriors who are anything but casual, yet use an imagined conflict between security areas to attempt to protect their solo/afk/multiboxing hisec wealth generation, which has nothing to do with being "casual" and everything to do with wanting rewards without risk.
The sooner casual players divorce themselves from their unrepresentative unofficial crusaders, the sooner they can become a coherent voice for casual gameplay, and have people step up as representatives thereof.
The only problem with your advice is that to attempt to divorce themselves from the crusaders the casual players would need to become deeply involved with the community to make themselves heard - and this would mean they stop being casual.
I guess what I am saying is the casuals are the best players to represent because they'll never be active enough to prove to anyone you are not representing them! |
Gaetring Xana
Unstable Reaction Inc.
0
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Posted - 2013.05.13 05:12:00 -
[170] - Quote
All I can say is that this is the first year of CSM voting that made no bloody sense at all. IMO, it should be one vote per account. Period. |
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Gimme more Cynos
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
25
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Posted - 2013.05.13 08:17:00 -
[171] - Quote
Gaetring Xana wrote:All I can say is that this is the first year of CSM voting that made no bloody sense at all. IMO, it should be one vote per account. Period.
This.
CSM votings were terribad this year. Why do I have to vote ???-times? Yeah, we do have clearer results now, but who the hell cares about that.. after all, CSM only represents a fraction of the playerbase anyway, so it's not that those numbers are of any real use.... not going to vote ever again if the process remains like this.. |
Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
457
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Posted - 2013.05.13 13:00:00 -
[172] - Quote
Gimme,
You don't have to vote multiple times, it's entirely optional. Some people wanted this because then less votes are being wasted. Nightmares - A short story by Ch+¬ Biko |
Katrina Bekers
Rim Collection RC Test Alliance Please Ignore
171
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Posted - 2013.05.14 15:37:00 -
[173] - Quote
Gaetring Xana wrote:IMO, it should be one vote per account. Period.
It is.
For each account, you get only one vote.
You can express from one to fourteen preferences - and nobody forces you to express more than one - for which your only vote will be counted. << THE RABBLE BRIGADE >> |
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