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TomHorn
Caldari Waffen Legion
98
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Posted - 2013.05.08 15:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/violence-against-minmatar-immigrants-reported-in-federation/ |
Halete
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
804
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Posted - 2013.05.08 15:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'm continuously disgusted by you all.
And here I was hoping to calm down and overcome my anger.
This week is not helping. Trading chains for shackles, I am free. |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Tribal Band
897
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Posted - 2013.05.08 15:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
As someone who has been victimized of racial prejudice (lets just say things got messy for Gallente in the State after the Malkalen Incident and Heth took power) I can say violence against the Minmatar as a race is not the answer, nor even as a political entity.
We must show we are better than the backstabbing Republic. The Minmatar are our brethren, just not their government. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
464
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Posted - 2013.05.08 15:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Hm, rising tensions indeed. Why anyone would immigrate to the Federation in the first place is beyond my comprehension. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Narcisa De Fontaine
Core Medical Group
16
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Posted - 2013.05.08 16:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
This makes me feel so sick. All of this hatred is set to spread and perpetuate itself like ripples skittering on a lake after someone has thrown a single stone.
Don't these idiots realize its entirely probable that there were no small number of ethnic Matari killed while defending the Federation's border last night?
Anger is rarely rational, I suppose, if it was we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place. |
Emile Belfleur
Solar Zouaves
64
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Posted - 2013.05.08 16:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
I know I have uttered skepticism toward the Federal government before on these boards. I also realize I have drawn criticism for voicing my wish for a more culturally conservative policy on my people's ancestral homeworld. I am abandoning neither of these positions, but I still feel the following needs to be said:
The behavior described in this news report is disgraceful. What the Republic did was inexcusable, but misplaced acts of retaliation against common Federation citizens of Minmatar origin are equally inexcusable. It is, unfortunately, a lesson which lower class street rabble such as these, emboldened by generations of populist mob rule, are painfully slow to learn.
I share the anger and grief at the deaths of the thousands of gallant Navy crewmen yesterday, who did not deserve such a fate at the hands of a nation claiming to be our ally. However, I implore any would-be avengers to pause a minute and consider this question:
How many of those Federal Navy crewmen were themselves Minmatar? How many Minmatar died defending our borders, our sovereignty and our people yesterday?
I do not know the answer. I do not even need to know the answer. The question itself is enough.
We, the Gallente, were not the sole victims of the Republic's attack yesterday. It was an attack on all of the Federation. I call on the common man of Gallente origin to remember that when he walks past the house of his Minmatar neighbor: Remember that he was attacked the same as you. He may have lost loved ones of his own, fighting alongside yours. His grief and his anger are the same as yours.
And to you, Minmatar of the Republic, who pride yourselves on coming for your people, I have this to say: When you invaded us yesterday, when you attacked the ships of our navy, it was your own people you fired on.
Remember that. |
Lyn Farel
Kitzless
495
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Posted - 2013.05.08 16:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
This was expected since the beginning. All models pointed at this, but law enforcement waited for it to actually happen to take supplemental measures.
If authorities are overwhelmed, or unable to fix the situation, or corrupt themselves, then it is to be expected to see Minmatar immigrant arming themselves as a mean of protection, which will in turn help the mob to feel legitimate in what they do. |
Caellach Marellus
Aideron Technologies
913
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Posted - 2013.05.08 17:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
And history repeats itself with civil uprising through senseless and pointless civilian on civilian violence.
Well f##king done people, I hope you're proud of your accomplishments yesterday. Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
224
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Posted - 2013.05.08 17:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
Emile Belfleur wrote: How many of those Federal Navy crewmen were themselves Minmatar? How many Minmatar died defending our borders, our sovereignty and our people yesterday?
That's actually a very interesting point. I understood a career in the armed forces was quite popular for ethnic Minmatar Federal citizens ? |
Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
174
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Posted - 2013.05.08 17:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
Well, enjoy your precious democracy and all the delusions of safety it brings, I suppose.
Jowen Datloran wrote:Hm, rising tensions indeed. Why anyone would immigrate to the Federation in the first place is beyond my comprehension.
Try finding a job in the Republic's stale economy; I'm sure you'll realize quickly enough. - Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim ___________________________ Angels are never far... Stillwater Corporation recruitment open. |
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Ston Momaki
Disciples of Ston
790
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Posted - 2013.05.08 17:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
The ripples of violence...
It is often said that capsuleers are "trans-human." While I doubt how this is typically used, let's ponder the idea of "trans." If there is one way that would be good for capsullers to wear that prefix, it would in regard to our blind loyalties that lead to such hateful violence. We say it is all is self-defense, but I say most of it is in "selfish-defense." It is time for capsuleers to "trans"-cend our histories of offence and hatred and to be an example of unity that is possible among sentient beings. Don't call yourself "trans-human" if you are completely incapable of separating yourself from your parochial connections for the greater good of all, even those outside your race or nation.
People, put your safeties back on or this will not end well.
The Disciples of Ston bid you peace |
Nicolas Merovech
The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative
31
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Posted - 2013.05.08 17:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
Nationalism is the most infantile of diseases, surpassed only by racism. Dr. Nicolas A. Merovech Warrant Officer The Synenose Accord |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
404
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 18:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
As Ms. Farel indicates, the question now is how the police will handle this, and how the situation will evolve.
With the Matari violating Federation space, a reprisal by reactionaries and racists should be expected. My suspicion is that if there are similar people in the ranks of the Gallente police forces, then the Matari immigrants will increasingly become a marginalized group. With the existence of ghettos and existing racism as evidenced by the case of the Matari woman who faced difficulty enrolling in a Gallente university, or the Gallente court system's unduly harsh and undiplomatic refusal of the Matari extradition request, this is unlikely to end well unless the powers that be make specific and direct efforts to cool tensions. I would not expect this of either Shakor, Roden, or Blaque.
I expect we will soon begin hearing reports of vigilante justice by Matari, of police crackdowns on Matari neighborhoods, and possibly violence between police and Matari youth. This could result in rioting, which will then be treated as proof by high-minded people that, 'those animals need to be policed harshly.'
And so the house of cards will collapse. |
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
580
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Posted - 2013.05.08 18:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
Valerie Valate wrote:Emile Belfleur wrote: How many of those Federal Navy crewmen were themselves Minmatar? How many Minmatar died defending our borders, our sovereignty and our people yesterday?
That's actually a very interesting point. I understood a career in the armed forces was quite popular for ethnic Minmatar Federal citizens ? It is.
Many of the other cadets at the Academy when I was in the capsuleer training program were of some level of Matari origin - most of them were in the other, non-capsule programs due to what I assume to be CONCORD or DED regulations, but Minmatar residents of the Federation do make up a large portion of the armed services. Morwen Lagann Director, Tyrathlion Interstellar |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1039
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 18:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
The prime responsibility of Law Enforcement is to secure the safety of the body politic - to make a civilisation safe for the majority of its citizens and their property.
The police cannot, in fact, prevent this violence against the Matari segment of the population. They are too numerous and visually distinctive. The best that they can do is attempt to deter the perpetrators. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
1117
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 19:21:00 -
[16] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:As Ms. Farel indicates, the question now is how the police will handle this, and how the situation will evolve.
With the Matari violating Federation space, a reprisal by reactionaries and racists should be expected. My suspicion is that if there are similar people in the ranks of the Gallente police forces, then the Matari immigrants will increasingly become a marginalized group. With the existence of ghettos and existing racism as evidenced by the case of the Matari woman who faced difficulty enrolling in a Gallente university, or the Gallente court system's unduly harsh and undiplomatic refusal of the Matari extradition request, this is unlikely to end well unless the powers that be make specific and direct efforts to cool tensions. I would not expect this of either Shakor, Roden, or Blaque.
I expect we will soon begin hearing reports of vigilante justice by Matari, of police crackdowns on Matari neighborhoods, and possibly violence between police and Matari youth. This could result in rioting, which will then be treated as proof by high-minded people that, 'those animals need to be policed harshly.'
And so the house of cards will collapse. You are saying like every Gallente is commiting violence againts the Matari population in the Fed, knowing the media they are blowing this out of proportion and im sure that such thing happened also before the yesterdays event and still be happening after the masses forget about this, simply beacause people are what they are.
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Rosen Thornn
House of Nightshade
16
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Posted - 2013.05.08 19:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
The number of civilian deaths this year has been staggering. When we were only fighting in space our impact was not nearly as great to those on the ground. Now these new immortal mercanieries have brought our wars to the streets. To the people who are the most defenseless and the governments have done nothing.
And now we the Gallente and Minmitar fighting each other, the Caldari are trying to nationalize thier megacrops, and the Empress is more irrational by the day. I fear its going to get worse. This is just the begining. |
Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
112
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 19:44:00 -
[18] - Quote
Any spacer Minnies requiring passage from Fed space to either the Republic or State can drop OTSI a line. We'll see if we can't organize the travel, and possibly even gainful employment should the resumes be attractive. Captain Lieutenant Midshipman Ms Lady Dame Dudette Otsito the Third. Lord High Thingamadoodle and Satrapess of the Paper Birds. The One who used to be The Keeper of the Toothbrush Threat Level: lol |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
405
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 19:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
Mr. Lanate; I specifically indicated reactionaries and racists. Every populace will have those elements. The question is whether the institutions supporting the population reinforce or combat those tendencies. My comments were based on an assumption -- not unfounded, I believe -- that Gallente institutions no longer combat reactionary or racist tendencies as strongly as Gallente idealists would like to believe.
As regards media, well. I would agree that it is best to not read too deeply into media reports. However, as we do not often get a good picture of what's happening among baseliner populations save through media report, we can't dismiss media reports out-of-hand. |
Grideris
Fleet Coordination Commission Fleet Coordination Coalition
633
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 20:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Mr. Lanate; I specifically indicated reactionaries and racists. Every populace will have those elements. The question is whether the institutions supporting the population reinforce or combat those tendencies. My comments were based on an assumption -- not unfounded, I believe -- that Gallente institutions no longer combat reactionary or racist tendencies as strongly as Gallente idealists would like to believe.
As regards media, well. I would agree that it is best to not read too deeply into media reports. However, as we do not often get a good picture of what's happening among baseliner populations save through media report, we can't dismiss media reports out-of-hand.
It is exactly that. An assumption. The way you speak about it, you make it seem like the entire Federation is hell-bent on abusing the Minmatar.
I would also like to remind you that the case you mentioned earlier was about trying to get the Federation to recognise the different tribes as individual ethnic groups rather than as just "Minmatar" after the student in question (a Brutor) had trouble acquiring a scholarship to study engineering due to the "Sebiestor staffed administration office" basically telling her to bugger off and do another subject. http://www.dust514.org - the unofficial forum for everything DUST 514 http://www.dust514base.com - the blog site with everything else DUST 514 you need
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Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
409
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 21:45:00 -
[21] - Quote
Grideris; you distort my words. I detailed expectations, and what I expect the causality to be. I believe I made it clear that these were conditional. And, naturally, I would be thrilled if my expectations don't bear up to reality, and that violence between ethnic Gallente and Matari doesn't flare in the way I expect it to.
Thank you for the reminder on the case; I see I had misremembered it. I had tried to locate the original news items to refresh my memory, but clearly hadn't searched well enough. That's certainly on me, for allowing administerrata to distract me from research. |
Del Vikus
Gradient Electus Matari
56
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 22:36:00 -
[22] - Quote
Emile Belfleur wrote:
How many of those Federal Navy crewmen were themselves Minmatar? How many Minmatar died defending our borders, our sovereignty and our people yesterday?
Well spoken, Pilot. |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
1520
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 23:22:00 -
[23] - Quote
Racial violence always seems to precede even more horrific tragedies and significant political change when it happens in the Federation. Darker times are ahead, I think. Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Sub-Director of Public Relations |
Gosakumori Noh
Viziam Amarr Empire
205
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 23:44:00 -
[24] - Quote
Mummy Noh recognizes an opportunity to be culturally sensitive when she sees one, and so I have created a safe space for Sebiestor teenagers in my colony on Caldari Prime. At least for boys. Who are fit. Firmer bottoms mean living quarters higher up the tower, darlings. It is cold, here, but that's a Sebbie thing, yes? Just snuggle up and rub among yourselves to keep warm; and I do hope you like mushrooms... no, not in your mouth... drop it. Drop it. Sweetie! Drop. It.
Good boy! |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
1523
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 23:58:00 -
[25] - Quote
Gosakumori Noh wrote:Mummy Noh recognizes an opportunity to be culturally sensitive when she sees one, and so I have created a safe space for Sebiestor teenagers in my colony on Caldari Prime. At least for boys. Who are fit. Firmer bottoms mean living quarters higher up the tower, darlings. It is cold, here, but that's a Sebbie thing, yes? Just snuggle up and rub among yourselves to keep warm; and I do hope you like mushrooms... no, not in your mouth... drop it. Drop it. Sweetie! Drop. It.
Good boy!
... Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Sub-Director of Public Relations |
James Syagrius
Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly
370
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 01:16:00 -
[26] - Quote
Nicolas Merovech wrote:Nationalism is the most infantile of diseases, surpassed only by racism. What did you expect. Love and understanding?
Nationalism my dear doctor in this case is self preservation. GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
http://syagrius-eve.blogspot.com/
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Lyn Farel
Kitzless
497
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Posted - 2013.05.09 10:38:00 -
[27] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote:Nicolas Merovech wrote:Nationalism is the most infantile of diseases, surpassed only by racism. What did you expect. Love and understanding? Nationalism my dear doctor in this case is self preservation.
Weird. Considering the events it leaded to, I was more inclined towards the opposite conclusion. |
Shintoko Akahoshi
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
62
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Posted - 2013.05.09 16:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
Emile Belfleur wrote:We, the Gallente, were not the sole victims of the Republic's attack yesterday. It was an attack on all of the Federation.
Extremely well put, and something that is often forgotten. The Gallente Federation is not made up solely of and for the racial Gallenteans. It is all too easy to lose sight of this and to start judging people by their genes rather than by themselves - I am not immune to this, myself, to my shame. It was not the Gallente who were attacked by the Minmatar, after all. It was the Federation who was attacked by the Republic. Bio and writing |
Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
440
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Posted - 2013.05.09 19:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
Fortunately, my homeworld appears to be spared this violence. I think it's more because we fear the Matari and tend to act a bit cowardly, but hey, I guess that downside has an upside. I did hear reports of policemen harrasing ethnic Minmatar though, but at least it's unlikely they'll be attack by others while they do so. Nightmares - A short story by Ch+¬ Biko |
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