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Yokomaki
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
9
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Posted - 2013.05.08 20:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
Does anyone have experience running C5s with just subcaps? We are running fleets in C4s currently and are interested in running C5s for better ISK/hr. We currently use the following (or similar) for C4s.
Armored Warfare T1 links (no mindlinks atm, T2 and mindlinks in 2 weeks)
4 Abaddons 4 newbros in Augorors (essentially 3 Guardians)
Our newbros get into Augorors -> Guardians -> DPS so that is why we use Augorors.
Beam Abaddons 17k armor 87/83/80/79 resists 3,678 dps tank with 3 Augs repping 4,904 dps tank with 4 Augs repping
Does anyone have ACTUAL EXPERIENCE running sites with BSs and logi in C5s without cap escelation? |
trevormax
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
9
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Posted - 2013.05.08 20:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
yes. used to do it in a previous corp which had a c4>c5. We used armour T3's and 2 guards and never had any problems running any type of C5 site/anom. The T3's are perfect for wh life. If your baddon characters can swap out for T3's it would make your logi guys lives a bit easier. |
Svodola Darkfury
Heaven's End League of Infamy
170
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Posted - 2013.05.08 20:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yokomaki wrote:Does anyone have experience running C5s with just subcaps? We are running fleets in C4s currently and are interested in running C5s for better ISK/hr. We currently use the following (or similar) for C4s.
Armored Warfare T1 links (no mindlinks atm, T2 and mindlinks in 2 weeks)
4 Abaddons 4 newbros in Augorors (essentially 3 Guardians)
Our newbros get into Augorors -> Guardians -> DPS so that is why we use Augorors.
Beam Abaddons 17k armor 87/83/80/79 resists 3,678 dps tank with 3 Augs repping 4,904 dps tank with 4 Augs repping
Does anyone have ACTUAL EXPERIENCE running sites with BSs and logi in C5s without cap escelation?
Of course.
First things: your augorors are going to be the weak point in C5s. So if I read your post right and they're going into Guardians, you'll be fine, and you'll probably only need 2 guardians.
Your tank is more than sufficient for any wave in any non-escalation C5 wave; we never had a wave break our 2500 dps tank when we ran a shield fleet through the sites. DPS wise you want at least 1200 DPS to make the clearing not absolutely awful, but with 4 abaddons that also shouldn't be a problem.
Moral of the story: if you were running C4s before with that fleet, you can easily do sub-cap clears in C5s. But seriously, if you want to get Scrooge McDuck rich, get into capitals when you can.
Svo. |
Hathrul
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized.
239
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Posted - 2013.05.08 20:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
most common are RR tengu;s. but 2 dedicated logi ships with any decent dps ship that can project its range well should be good |
Phaderift
Sky Fighters Talocan United
21
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Posted - 2013.05.08 20:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
yea we used to run them in RR domi and typhoons. I'm not sure they are better isk/hr than chaining C4 sites. which can be done in 2 RR domi's and then an abbadon or other DPS bs. Or as said above 2 logi + any dps ship can run them. |
Yokomaki
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
9
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Posted - 2013.05.08 21:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
Thank you for the fast responses! A few of us can fly T3's so I will investigate that instead of BSs. My issues is I can only fly a Legion and I can't do T2 pulse until end of June so I would have to use T1 lasers. What is the range most of the anom waves spawn at? From my understanding it's not 100-150 like most of the C4s (the #1 reason I hate C4 anoms).
Thank you very much for the help, seriously. |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
1801
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Posted - 2013.05.08 21:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
don't use T3s for C5s. the spawns are stupidly far apart and you waste a ton of time waiting for them to be in range. you want to be using navy geddons and a loki with 2-3 guardians for support. geddons for DPS, loki to kill the frigs and web cruisers.
ideally you should get an archon pilot and use that for logi as soon as you can. here's a guide on non dread site running for you: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1808468#post1808468 It's written for carrier logi but you can replace that with guardians if you want.
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Svodola Darkfury
Heaven's End League of Infamy
172
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Posted - 2013.05.08 21:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
Yokomaki wrote:Thank you for the fast responses! A few of us can fly T3's so I will investigate that instead of BSs. My issues is I can only fly a Legion and I can't do T2 pulse until end of June so I would have to use T1 lasers. What is the range most of the anom waves spawn at? From my understanding it's not 100-150 like most of the C4s (the #1 reason I hate C4 anoms).
Thank you very much for the help, seriously.
Like Jack said, the waves aren't 100km out like in C4s, but they're still often 40-60km out (with one exception in Core Stronghold where they spawn at the warp-in, which is really fun to smart bomb).
Your battleships are still ideal if mass is not a concern.
Svo. |
Josilin du Guesclin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
53
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Posted - 2013.05.08 22:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
Yes. We run C5 sites with no escalations all the time (we live in a C2 with C5 static). We started with a shield fleet but now run armour or shield depending on the WH's local effects. In either case you want two-three T2 logis running a cap chain between them (so Guardians or Basilisks). Two is enough, but a third one provides a buffer against mistakes/accidents (such as a disconnect). As long as two of the logi are T2s the others can be T1s, and I expect that four T1s (Augorors/Ospreys) would do.
As for the DPS 2-3 command ships or T3s will do, but more is faster and safer. A solid BC tank (Drake, Prophecy) will do, but more is better. Battleships take more damage than smaller ships, but their bigger buffer is nice when a 4-BS wave alphas someone who has been webbed. Your Abaddons look fine. Certainly the blaster Rokhs we used had no trouble with a similar tank.
If the system is sufficiently quiet and you have proper scouts it can be fun to bring out all your blinged out faction battleships and T3s and tear a system apart, too.
I actually prefer this to cap escalations - the returns per hour aren't much different and it's more interesting - you aren't just sitting there pounding on sleepers that are simply huge bags of hit points for ages. The downside is that without escalations you run out of sites much faster - which doesn't matter if it's not the hole you live in, because you can roll the one you're done with and then work on another.
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Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
252
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Posted - 2013.05.08 22:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
2 Guardians will comfortably handle all but the 5x keeper BS wave on Forgotten Core Information Pen in a class 5.
That last wave on the mag is usually doable with 2 guardians but if you get unlucky and they go full aggro on one of the guardians while the cruisers have it webbed that guardian will quite likely die if your not 110% on the ball - its not so much the dps thats the problem just if theres any delay getting reps on it from the other guardian with only one guardian you will struggle to rep back enough armor to survive the alpha from subsequent volleys. |
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lanyaie
828
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Posted - 2013.05.08 23:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
That's like beer without the alcohol Hay |
Matuk Grymwal
Bite Me inc Bitten.
38
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Posted - 2013.05.09 03:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
Yeah, used to do it back in the day in Firebird Squadron. Armor subcaps are pretty ****** and not recommended. As Jack says burning to get in range is a pain in the arse. We always used shield, primarily tengus with two basi's. Generally we would go with a minimum of 4 (sometimes 3) tengus and always at least 2 logi. You may need more logi these days, as this was before the sleeper neuting changes. Later when I was in Narwhals peeps in alliance would use RR tengus with no logi. |
Jay Joringer
Blackstar Privateer Consortium Enigma Project
141
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Posted - 2013.05.09 12:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
Matuk Grymwal wrote:Yeah, used to do it back in the day in Firebird Squadron. Armor subcaps are pretty ****** and not recommended. As Jack says burning to get in range is a pain in the arse. We always used shield, primarily tengus with two basi's. Generally we would go with a minimum of 4 (sometimes 3) tengus and always at least 2 logi. You may need more logi these days, as this was before the sleeper neuting changes. Later when I was in Narwhals peeps in alliance would use RR tengus with no logi.
If you're doing it that way, RR Tengu's make the most sense. If you look at the numbers, the dps you lose for having 2 pilots flying logi is more than you lose from dropping from a 6 launcher to a 5 launcher fit to spider tank. Well, that's unless you have silly numbers of Tengus on site, but you don't want to be doing that.
But as has been mentioned previously, moving to range can sometimes be an issue unless you're using a dynamic anchor to reposition between spawns - and I say dynamic because not taking webbing effects into account is a good way to lose a Tengu. It's not the quickest or most sensible way of doing things, but if your fleet is lacking skills to be doing things otherwise, it will work. The Enigma Blogject-á |
Omen Nihilo
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
215
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Posted - 2013.05.09 13:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
RR Tengus, minimum of 4 iirc.
Here's what my old corp used to fly with:
Quote:[Tengu, C5WH]
Damage Control II Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Pithum C-Type Explosive Deflection Amplifier Pithum C-Type EM Ward Amplifier Pithum C-Type EM Ward Amplifier
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix Tengu Defensive - Adaptive Shielding Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
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Sha Boost
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.05.09 14:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
What ISK do you get on average for a non escalated c5 site? |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
252
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 14:48:00 -
[16] - Quote
Somewhere in the region of 300-400m for the main site waves IIRC. (I usually rep things and take whatever I'm paid out without paying too much attention to the ISK side of it).
Keep in mind that the sleeper spider repping on some waves means your potentially losing upto 700dps (depending on how well they are repping against your target selection) just breaking the spider reps. |
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