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Svodola Darkfury
Heaven's End League of Infamy
171
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Posted - 2013.05.08 20:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
Has there been an official reasoning as to why we can't have Ice in wormholes?
My thought is that they want us to leave occasionally, but I'm kind of annoyed that they're reducing the amount of available Ice in high-sec (our primary source of Ice for many wormholers) and we're not getting any new "Ice Sites" with the grav change-over.
I'm sort of deliriously in love with the idea of a purely wormhole life, even though I know I'd never bother producing my own ships and mods, etc. It would be nice if we could not only cook our own fuel but actually get the Ice for it.
Am I missing some over-arching point about why Ice doesn't exist in w-space?
Svo. |
Vincent Gaines
Cold Moon Destruction. Transmission Lost
427
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Posted - 2013.05.08 21:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
This kinda ticked me off. They moved the ice to encourage ice mining in null to "locally support" operations however they didn't bother considering us.
I understand they don't want all resources to be available to keep us dependent but now things have changed. Not a diplo.-á
The above post was edited for spelling. |
Phaderift
Sky Fighters Talocan United
21
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Posted - 2013.05.08 21:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
Svodola Darkfury wrote:Has there been an official reasoning as to why we can't have Ice in wormholes?
My thought is that they want us to leave occasionally, but I'm kind of annoyed that they're reducing the amount of available Ice in high-sec (our primary source of Ice for many wormholers) and we're not getting any new "Ice Sites" with the grav change-over.
I'm sort of deliriously in love with the idea of a purely wormhole life, even though I know I'd never bother producing my own ships and mods, etc. It would be nice if we could not only cook our own fuel but actually get the Ice for it.
Am I missing some over-arching point about why Ice doesn't exist in w-space?
Svo.
Yes they never intended for you to live in it at the start. CCP has said many times WH's were not supposed to become inhabited it just kind of happened as such they were never designed to be self sufficient. Yea i would love to have ice in hole but it won't happen |
Svodola Darkfury
Heaven's End League of Infamy
174
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Posted - 2013.05.08 23:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Phaderift wrote:Svodola Darkfury wrote:Has there been an official reasoning as to why we can't have Ice in wormholes?
My thought is that they want us to leave occasionally, but I'm kind of annoyed that they're reducing the amount of available Ice in high-sec (our primary source of Ice for many wormholers) and we're not getting any new "Ice Sites" with the grav change-over.
I'm sort of deliriously in love with the idea of a purely wormhole life, even though I know I'd never bother producing my own ships and mods, etc. It would be nice if we could not only cook our own fuel but actually get the Ice for it.
Am I missing some over-arching point about why Ice doesn't exist in w-space?
Svo. Yes they never intended for you to live in it at the start. CCP has said many times WH's were not supposed to become inhabited it just kind of happened as such they were never designed to be self sufficient. Yea i would love to have ice in hole but it won't happen
They shouldn't have put so many moons in here then... not that you're arguing for that, just silliness really.
Svo |
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition Insurance Fraud.
287
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Posted - 2013.05.08 23:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Phaderift wrote:Svodola Darkfury wrote:Has there been an official reasoning as to why we can't have Ice in wormholes?
My thought is that they want us to leave occasionally, but I'm kind of annoyed that they're reducing the amount of available Ice in high-sec (our primary source of Ice for many wormholers) and we're not getting any new "Ice Sites" with the grav change-over.
I'm sort of deliriously in love with the idea of a purely wormhole life, even though I know I'd never bother producing my own ships and mods, etc. It would be nice if we could not only cook our own fuel but actually get the Ice for it.
Am I missing some over-arching point about why Ice doesn't exist in w-space?
Svo. Yes they never intended for you to live in it at the start. CCP has said many times WH's were not supposed to become inhabited it just kind of happened as such they were never designed to be self sufficient. Yea i would love to have ice in hole but it won't happen They also said they liked how it turned out and don't want to destroy it. "We never thought you'd do that" isn't an excuse, either. There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1346
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Posted - 2013.05.08 23:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Phaderift wrote:Svodola Darkfury wrote:Has there been an official reasoning as to why we can't have Ice in wormholes?
My thought is that they want us to leave occasionally, but I'm kind of annoyed that they're reducing the amount of available Ice in high-sec (our primary source of Ice for many wormholers) and we're not getting any new "Ice Sites" with the grav change-over.
I'm sort of deliriously in love with the idea of a purely wormhole life, even though I know I'd never bother producing my own ships and mods, etc. It would be nice if we could not only cook our own fuel but actually get the Ice for it.
Am I missing some over-arching point about why Ice doesn't exist in w-space?
Svo. Yes they never intended for you to live in it at the start. CCP has said many times WH's were not supposed to become inhabited it just kind of happened as such they were never designed to be self sufficient. Yea i would love to have ice in hole but it won't happen
Which I have never understood. I mean who would bother going to the trouble of finding a C5, harvesting say a Vital (~60,000m3 of gas) without actually living inside. And that is just one piece to the T3 chain. |
Xessej
Darqsyde Exploration Limited Mass - Effect
17
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Posted - 2013.05.09 01:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Which I have never understood. I mean who would bother going to the trouble of finding a C5, harvesting say a Vital (~60,000m3 of gas) without actually living inside. And that is just one piece to the T3 chain. I think their vision of T3's was they would be extremely rare. If corps didn't live in WH's the quantity of sleeper salvage and relics would be much much lower which would mean far fewer T3's. |
Indo Nira
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized.
70
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Posted - 2013.05.09 02:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
Xessej wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:Which I have never understood. I mean who would bother going to the trouble of finding a C5, harvesting say a Vital (~60,000m3 of gas) without actually living inside. And that is just one piece to the T3 chain. I think their vision of T3's was they would be extremely rare. If corps didn't live in WH's the quantity of sleeper salvage and relics would be much much lower which would mean far fewer T3's.
i feel like a lot of this game was just am 'improv act' of devs making / changing content and then going around after patch day: "hmmmmm. why did i never think of that?!" |
Urban Trucker
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2013.05.09 10:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2963911#post2963911
CCP Fozzie wrote:New wormhole space with no moons is an idea I have liked for a while. And yes, if we do ever add more wormhole space we can re-evaluate the option of giving that new space ice.
That is about as close as you will get. |
Rek Seven
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized.
687
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Posted - 2013.05.09 10:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
I wish CCP would reconsider putting ice fields in wormholes. Is my bitter vet membership card in the mail? |
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Wander Prian
Frozen Dawn Inc Arctic Light
3
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Posted - 2013.05.09 11:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP said in the wh-roundtable that they don't want us to get everything from wormholes. They want us to get out once in a while as well and interact with the rest of eve. |
Rek Seven
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized.
687
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 11:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
That's fair enough, but i'd guess that around 95% of WH residence don't got to K space for ice, someone else in the corporation is usually given that job.
I don't think a WH group should be able to mine ice to support their WH POS indefinitely but if even 20% of your ice needs were obtainable in wormholes, it would increase activity in space and provide more content for everyone. Is my bitter vet membership card in the mail? |
Vincent Gaines
Cold Moon Destruction. Transmission Lost
430
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 11:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
Wander Prian wrote:CCP said in the wh-roundtable that they don't want us to get everything from wormholes. They want us to get out once in a while as well and interact with the rest of eve. By interact, you mean roll down the chain until you find a HS near a hub, grab fuel, and roll again. Not a diplo.-á
The above post was edited for spelling. |
notha atfast
Jabba Industries INC. Punkz 'n Monkeys
31
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Posted - 2013.05.09 16:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
Wh systems get an Ice anom once a week. Something that is scannable with the on-board scanner like they are proposing. It's something the WH dwellers desire to have and fight to mine and it will increase some ganking of miners in WH space...what's not to love? |
Ghenghis Kralj
Risk-Averse PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
0
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Posted - 2013.05.09 16:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
Also, there is already a system in place. We already can't refine materials without taking huge hits. That would be incentive enough to interact with high sec imo unless you are in a c4, I suppose. And that's not taking clones, etc. into account.
The only problem they/we would face is that you would have to randomize faction ice spawning. |
Phaderift
Sky Fighters Talocan United
21
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Posted - 2013.05.09 16:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
Vincent Gaines wrote:Wander Prian wrote:CCP said in the wh-roundtable that they don't want us to get everything from wormholes. They want us to get out once in a while as well and interact with the rest of eve. By interact, you mean roll down the chain until you find a HS near a hub, grab fuel, and roll again.
yea in all honesty i think they need to add some WH systems that every WH has an addition way to and they are just dummy systems .. no moons, but contain resources that can be harvested, sleeper stuff ice minerals .. but make a limited number of these systems .. say like 100 of them and every hole in the game can connect to them .. would make for massive conflict in WH space. maybe make them accessed through a player made structure that must be built in the Wh outta sleeper loots and can't be moved. So you establish in what is current Wh space and then build this structute which opens into deep deep unknown full of wonder amazement and danger, where you can't get a PoS, and make the number of them low enough that you are never alone in that system, always have to fight to claim the resources within with either other players or the sleepers that live there, would be fun. |
AtomYcX
Cold Moon Destruction. Transmission Lost
9
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
Phaderift wrote:yea in all honesty i think they need to add some WH systems that every WH has an addition way to and they are just dummy systems .. no moons, but contain resources that can be harvested, sleeper stuff ice minerals .. but make a limited number of these systems .. say like 100 of them and every hole in the game can connect to them .. would make for massive conflict in WH space. maybe make them accessed through a player made structure that must be built in the Wh outta sleeper loots and can't be moved. So you establish in what is current Wh space and then build this structute which opens into deep deep unknown full of wonder amazement and danger, where you can't get a PoS, and make the number of them low enough that you are never alone in that system, always have to fight to claim the resources within with either other players or the sleepers that live there, would be fun.
You know what, I actually like the sound of that. As long as the existing systems stayed as-is in regards to POS's then having systems that can't be heavily fortified but with high value resources in would be a great conflict driver.
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Quantum Spade
A Drunken Squirrels Conspiracy for Revenge
0
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:21:00 -
[18] - Quote
All I hear is "I want to farm uninhabited systems for easy money" |
Yokomaki
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
9
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
Phaderift wrote:Svodola Darkfury wrote:Has there been an official reasoning as to why we can't have Ice in wormholes?
My thought is that they want us to leave occasionally, but I'm kind of annoyed that they're reducing the amount of available Ice in high-sec (our primary source of Ice for many wormholers) and we're not getting any new "Ice Sites" with the grav change-over.
I'm sort of deliriously in love with the idea of a purely wormhole life, even though I know I'd never bother producing my own ships and mods, etc. It would be nice if we could not only cook our own fuel but actually get the Ice for it.
Am I missing some over-arching point about why Ice doesn't exist in w-space?
Svo. Yes they never intended for you to live in it at the start. CCP has said many times WH's were not supposed to become inhabited it just kind of happened as such they were never designed to be self sufficient. Yea i would love to have ice in hole but it won't happen
They said they didn't intend for people to live in WHs but recently in the WH Roundtable thread they said, however, that now that they see how much players enjoy it they do not plan on taking that away from them. So while it wasn't their plan for people to live in WHs, it became successful and they got lucky by accident. They aren't going to try to keep people from living in WHs but at this point encourage WH space more. |
Phaderift
Sky Fighters Talocan United
22
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Posted - 2013.05.09 18:11:00 -
[20] - Quote
Quantum Spade wrote:All I hear is "I want to farm uninhabited systems for easy money"
then you need to get your ears checked friend .. let me put it into fewer words ..
I want systems that are worth fighting over that can't be fortified. Think more like arenas where you can claim some prizes after you clear the field. The idea would be to have so few of them that they are never "empty" yet at the same time have the entrances controlled so that traditional Wh space is still what it is now. Thunderdomes if you will.
Open portal send in scout .. find hostiles in system harvesting or even fighting .. join the fray , the fight ends, the winner gets to grab what spoils are in the area. At least till the next guy comes in looking to fight. Keep them limited in number of systems and add an algorithm limiting the number of times you can open into the same one in a given 24 hour period to prevent people from being able to use them like bridges. Have the portals fueled by say blue loots to add an alternate use for them as opposed to being an isk facet. NO outgoing holes only incoming .. so you get stuck and you must either fight your way out another person's portal or negotiate a way back to the unknown to then scan back to kspace, gives the option to commit to the engagement with full force and then either wait to role your portal back into it or find another way out. To balance it a bit more make it so portals in lower class systems generate lower mass capable portals, lots of things could be done with this.. but the idea would be get fights and if you win reap rewards, for a bit. if i wanted to farm empty systems .. well there are plenty of c5 expeditionable holes out there i could do that with. |
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Svodola Darkfury
Heaven's End League of Infamy
175
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 20:40:00 -
[21] - Quote
Vincent Gaines wrote:Wander Prian wrote:CCP said in the wh-roundtable that they don't want us to get everything from wormholes. They want us to get out once in a while as well and interact with the rest of eve. By interact, you mean roll down the chain until you find a HS near a hub, grab fuel, and roll again.
Seriously right?!?
Right now here is my interaction with k-space: Run out into Jita/Amarr with one of my alts, sprinting the whole way like I'm a mouse in broad daylight, sell loot, turn around, bring back stront/ammo/fuel, shut myself off from that world by crushing and continue to be a w-spacer.
Low-sec? Bring in capital ship, throw another capital ship through and back, crush it.
Null-sec? Ice Miners/Ratters in system? No? Do I need security status? No? Crush.
You couldn't pay me to interact with K-space more than I already do because I'm such a squirrelly (new word!) little wormholer.
Svo. |
DrBmN
Axial tilt
10
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Posted - 2013.05.09 23:25:00 -
[22] - Quote
Ice belts in whs isn't such a bad idea.. i wonder how often we would get it...maybe as often as a mag or radar site... once per 4 months?
K space is needed only to track down other wormholes and for trade hub runs, nothing more, sadly. |
Bloody Wench
335
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Posted - 2013.05.11 05:51:00 -
[23] - Quote
It's funny what's become of 'us'.
We don't need your stinking K-Space...
How much fuel do I have left...8 weeks...damn I'm going to have to go to Jita soon. I'd really rather not.
How much loot do I have in here? I should probably move some of that out to reduce my asset count in here, means I have to go to K-Space. I'd really rather not. I'll just fill up some GSC at a safe for now.
Doing a fuel run hitting D-Scan every so often and getting that massive list of rubbish in the system, and you get the hair stand up on your neck...then saying 'STOP CLICKING IT'
Support a Hi Resolution Texture Pack |
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
148
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Posted - 2013.05.13 10:18:00 -
[24] - Quote
Quantum Spade wrote:All I hear is "I want to farm uninhabited systems for easy money"
I actually agree with this. While the carebear in me would love to have empty wormholes to harvest, the fact is that most wormholes are empty much of the time as it stands right now.
How you would go about farming an empty hole wouldn't change one iota from how you farm a hole with a resident POS but nobody online. All this would prove to do is to make "easy mode" even easier by providing you with easier access to more empty holes.
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Martin Ehrenthal
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
1
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Posted - 2013.05.13 11:19:00 -
[25] - Quote
I started a thread in the assembly hall forum a few days ago:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2954516#post2954516 |
Jess Tanner
Hard Knocks Inc.
27
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Posted - 2013.05.13 15:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
Nothing like a WH bear. |
Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
448
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Posted - 2013.05.13 18:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
I don't care where the stuff, out of which the fuel blocks I pick up in Jita were made, comes from. What's this obsession with ice? I'm thinking mostly people just want it because it's something nullsec has and we don't, which makes you jealous :p
If ice harvesting provided different gameplay than ore I'd understand, but I don't see any difference between activating a miner module on an object labeled "Arkonor" or activating an ice harvester module on an object named "green mint" or whatever those ice chunks are called. . |
Vincent Gaines
Cold Moon Destruction. Transmission Lost
473
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 15:44:00 -
[28] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:I don't care where the stuff, out of which the fuel blocks I pick up in Jita were made, comes from. What's this obsession with ice? I'm thinking mostly people just want it because it's something nullsec has and we don't, which makes you jealous :p
If ice harvesting provided different gameplay than ore I'd understand, but I don't see any difference between activating a miner module on an object labeled "Arkonor" or activating an ice harvester module on an object named "green mint" or whatever those ice chunks are called. You sweet summer child....
Ice makes fuel for towers. Making ice ourselves increases activity in a hole. Good for you, good for your enemy. Less headache dealing with mass restrictions and logistics. Not a diplo.-á
The above post was edited for spelling. |
Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Shockwave Sovereign Industries
6
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Posted - 2013.05.15 19:13:00 -
[29] - Quote
This is pretty much it. There is no actual reason why there is no ice in Wormholes. The whole Kspace interaction is handled by alts, or logistic officers, who are alts.
Need something from Kspace, logistic officer gets an order (need more strong and xl ammo), logi officer logs alt on, leaves wormhole, goes to jita, amarr, dodixie, etc, picks up stuff, warps back to hole, brings it in.
The Person making the request never left the wormhole, the main character of the logistic's pilot never left the wormhole, some 1 million SP alt in a bestower,iteron,badger did to bring stuff in.
Wait they should use a blockade runner/deep space transport/orca!!!
The deep space transport's just a expensive iteron, it "may" deter a solo tackle, but drop a Interdictor, bubble, etc, its dead. Drop more than 1 ship, its dead.
The Blockade Runner only works if by some magical miracle roll of the dice when you enter the wormhole, you spawn over 2km from the hole , where you can initiate cloak immediately (if anything is within 2000 of you, cannot initiate cloak, the most viable culprit here is the wormhole itself, which will drop you anywhere from 1000 to 4000. Role of dice.
The Orca... generally you have backup to help it through.
Point is, there is no real K-space interaction except for some alt to grab fuel and bring it in. And to be completely honest, the wormhole people ARE COMPLETELY FINE with not having to interact with K-space (Just like people who are in Nullsec having no reason to interact with highsec). If they want to get to k-space, they will figure a way to get there. Right now, locking ice to just that area is incredibly single-minded, rigid and inflexible. The developers magically created new dynamic content by complete accident. Now the people who play in it are asking for equal treatment, to which the developers are looking at them like they are green aliens asking for food in a language the developers don't understand.
It is quite simple.
1) Spawn random ice fields in wormholes, just like grav belts spawn now. If you don't like that, then make new wormhole space with no moons to anchor towers, and ice belts in there. 2) Create a viable hauler for use by people in wormholes (they lose every logistical advantage the lowsec and nullsec people have regarding hauling (Most viable ship change for this would be the deep space transport) 3) Create "Some" security for the people in POS's. While the whole "Roles review" may take another decade because it was written in Torbo Pascal, you can at minimum get the secure SMA's, working.
The people live in space, literally. We have no stations, no comforts the highsec'rs, lowsecer's and nullsecer's have. All we are asking is for some gameplay. We rely on ice, we would like to mine it, we would love to mine it in wormholes.
The "Must interact with K-space" arguement is over. If K-space wants interaction, they can come to us.
Think I detoured a bit there, but I am in a bit of a ranty mood |
Chev Alsar
N.E.A.D Corp
0
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Posted - 2013.05.17 09:21:00 -
[30] - Quote
Phoenix Jones for CSM 9! |
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