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Lehas Reboo
Universal Freelance CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS
0
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Posted - 2013.05.10 15:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Everywhere i read it seems like people make it out to not be worth doing L4 missions in Amarr Battleships, unless you got T2 guns and ammo. I can understand that Scorch gives a great range on the otherwise close range turrets, but still?
This has kinda put me off from buying an one and taking it for a spin on a level 4 mission yet, and just sticking to level 3's and mining so far.
But is it really so bad to do with T1 guns? Could easily afford a Navy Armageddon to fit with a faction repper but alas, skills on this old alt only allowed t1 guns still (43days training for t2).. Back when i last played (2008) my other character would easily rip L4's apart in a T1 fitted Raven but i guess stuff changed and this not being a missile boat..
Skills: http://eveboard.com/pilot/Lehas_Reboo
What is the experience from other people with not-perfect skills on this? Will it break 10m ISK/hour that is made from mining ? |
bloodknight2
Talledega Knights PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
71
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Posted - 2013.05.10 15:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
You do N-O-T need T2 guns!
In fact, i'm using faction tachyon instead of T2 because they use less cap (but a bit less damage) with my lovely nightmare. T2 guns will gives you something like 12-15% more dps over T1 and even less if you go faction. |
Doctor Ape MD
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
28
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Posted - 2013.05.10 15:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Things haven't really changed that much in missions (aside from minor stuff like drones and EWAR), I just think the expectations of people have changed. You should have no problems doing L4 missions in your navy geddon (or really any T1 battleship) even without the T2 guns.
I also recently returned from playing back in 2008 or 2009, and the biggest difference now is that faction battleships are far more common than they used to be, and so some people are now comparing old standby battleships to totally blinged out Nightmares and Machs.
Best advice is to just give it a try. If you are nervous, just do some of the easier L4s first to bring yourself up to it. If you don't like it, just sell it for close to what you bought it for (you'll certainly make more money than doing L3s).
Oh and keep in mind that in a few weeks all of the battleships are changing in the next patch. I don't think CCP has released any details on the changes to the Navy variants yet, but the changes to the base geddon are pretty drastic (basically it is becoming a drone boat with range neuting bonuses). |
B0XzZ
Pulse Heavy Industries
7
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Posted - 2013.05.10 15:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
time is money. you can complete most lvl 4 missions in an assualt frig. T2 guns just make them more efficient. Its not a requirement. |
Dato Koppla
Rage of Inferno Malefic Motives
182
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Posted - 2013.05.10 15:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Basically the heavy emphasis on T2 guns on Amarr is that T2 Pulses with Scorch are generally better than beams, especially on the Apoc which can hit 80km optimal with Scorch.
However as mentioned above T1 guns will do fine (try get meta 4 or 3 at least), but you'll have to use beams, t1 pulses simply don't have the range to be useable in missions without Scorch. |
Gimme more Cynos
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
24
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Posted - 2013.05.10 16:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
T1 Guns will work, it's just slow. |
Caljiav Ocanon
7
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Posted - 2013.05.10 17:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
I use T1M4 guns on all my ships, seems to work just fine. My problem is, I use two different races for my combat ship needs (generally Minmatar for BC and down and Gallente for BS) so the time sink for that is just not something I want to deal with right now (or ever really).
Anyway, have no problem running L4s/Incursions/etc without Tech II guns.
Though I fly through the valley of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am aligned to a safespot and warping out. - Me 2013 |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
1703
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Posted - 2013.05.11 09:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
I was doing lvl 4 missions with a meta4 dual heavy beam fitted abaddon when I couldn't fit it with megabeams properly and then a long time with meta 4 megabeams. It works perfectly well, you just have to put some more effort into managing your transversal.
And beams with multi or gamma do enough thermal damage to get through guristas, while scorch will fizzle mostly on the high em resists. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
DeLindsay
Galaxies Fall
98
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Posted - 2013.05.11 22:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Quote:T1 Guns will work, it's just slow.
This.
Everyone runs LvL 4's before they can fully fit T2 Weapons, everyone. Nobody is just gonna sit in station or bother with LvL 3's for the several weeks it takes for T2 Large to train. What you see now, is a much larger player base WITH all the SP to have Large weapons on multiple platforms and the Missions go MUCH faster. Yes it's a little bit about range, but more it's about sheer Gankity goodness which = faster and more efficient mission running which = more Iskies. That is all. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
1085
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Posted - 2013.05.11 22:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ppl tell you to stay docked until scorch in order to sound like 1337 bitter vets.
Beams are already the best long range gun for missions. Even with short range guns included, it's still ranked 3rd (after AC and Scorch) out of 6 gun types. What's there to complain about? Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
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Klymer
Hedion University Amarr Empire
248
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Posted - 2013.05.12 10:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
Faction tachyons are pure hot wet sex.
Scorch is broken.
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Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
125
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Posted - 2013.05.12 20:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
You said you can get a Navy Armageddon.
Of the entire Amarr line up for BS's this ship is the least laser heavy.
Put in some good drones and faction guns with faction ammo and get on with it.
Even if you only have enough for meta 4 the drones should be making this easy.
It should break that 10 million isk per hour goal easy. |
Tsukino Stareine
EVE University Ivy League
162
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Posted - 2013.05.12 21:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
wait what, i missed that 10m/hour bit
You could make more from level 4s in a battlecruiser.......... |
hellcane
Never Back Down
21
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Posted - 2013.05.12 21:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:wait what, i missed that 10m/hour bit
You could make more from level 4s in a battlecruiser.......... That's the OPs goal.
Should be easy to achieve. Sure, marauder/pirate bs will be faster than a T1, and sure T2 guns are better. Neither are required. Try a few missions out and see how you like it. |
Tsukino Stareine
EVE University Ivy League
162
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Posted - 2013.05.12 21:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
OP: go get yer raven back out, overtank it and run some level 4s until you're comfortable. Should be smashing that 10m/hour mark even then.
Once you're more confident, drop some tank for gank and then ask yourself why you mine. |
Cage Man
211
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Posted - 2013.05.12 21:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
I used to use an APOC with T1 meta 4 beams.. worked just fine and is very new player friendly
EDIT--- Just remember if you use a geddon, it will become a missile boat after the patch on June 4th.. Oh PLEASE!!! CCP Fozzie Can I haz a Navy moa....... |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Tribal Band
647
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Posted - 2013.05.13 11:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
Fairly basic skills and a T1 fit Dominix will plod through level 4's, there's a few where you might need to warp out to repair though from time to time.
Keep training the useful relevant skills, and that dominix will start performing more strongly over time. That's the key part about eve .. TIME.
You can rush into activities with the bare minimum skills, Eve will let you do this. But spending some time training the right skills and reading the right info can make a big difference.
I've mentioned the Dominix because I think it's probably the most lowskill forgiving battleship out there Fly what you want to however, and put fun 1st, isk/hr second
enjoy your time in eve
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Auduin Samson
Do not disturb Sanctuary Pact
45
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Posted - 2013.05.13 15:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
T2 guns are preferred as they are slightly better and slightly cheaper than (most) meta 4s. However, meta 4s are easier to fit and still pack a decent punch. T2s are more of a requirement for PvP, where every percentage point can be the difference between shiny loot and pod jumping home. |
Cage Man
211
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Posted - 2013.05.14 00:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
Auduin Samson wrote:T2 guns are preferred as they are slightly better and slightly cheaper than (most) meta 4s. However, meta 4s are easier to fit and still pack a decent punch. T2s are more of a requirement for PvP, where every percentage point can be the difference between shiny loot and pod jumping home.
T2's are not a more PVP related requirement. They with their T2 ammo make a substantial difference to even PVE. Lasers have a bigger need to be T2 as the need for range due to small optimal requires the use of scorch and arora to get dps out at range.. Oh PLEASE!!! CCP Fozzie Can I haz a Navy moa....... |
Kult Altol
Viziam Amarr Empire
253
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Posted - 2013.05.15 20:13:00 -
[20] - Quote
When doing level 4s my issue wasn't the guns, it was tank. You wanna be around 400-500 dps to do level 4s efficiently. An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded. A narrow mind is a focused mind.
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
1220
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Posted - 2013.05.15 21:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
Cage Man wrote:Auduin Samson wrote:T2 guns are preferred as they are slightly better and slightly cheaper than (most) meta 4s. However, meta 4s are easier to fit and still pack a decent punch. T2s are more of a requirement for PvP, where every percentage point can be the difference between shiny loot and pod jumping home. T2's are not a more PVP related requirement. They with their T2 ammo make a substantial difference to even PVE. Lasers have a bigger need to be T2 as the need for range due to small optimal requires the use of scorch and arora to get dps out at range..
It's not just the ammo (though that's nice).
How much would you pay for an 8% damage implant? Because that's exactly what getting T2 spec 4 will get you for any given gun over meta 4. |
Jimbo Mann
JediCorp
3
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Posted - 2013.05.17 14:58:00 -
[22] - Quote
I've had quite a bit of trouble sorting out my tank with my apoc for level 4 missions.
Right now I have
[Apocalypse, L4 Missioner] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Large Armor Repair II Large Armor Repair II Mission Specific Hardener II Mission Specific Hardener II
Capacitor Recharger II Capacitor Recharger II Capacitor Recharger II 100NM Afterburner I
Heavy Dual Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L Heavy Dual Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L Heavy Dual Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L Heavy Dual Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L Heavy Dual Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L Heavy Dual Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L Heavy Dual Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L Heavy Dual Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Auxiliary Armor Nano Pump I
I have fiddled around with Removing the second LAR and a Heat Sink to add 2 more specific hardeners, but that leaves my DPS too low. Also, removing either a Cap rig for another Armor rig or removing a cap recharger leaves me with too little cap.
I'm thinking about swapping one of the LARs for a Large Auxiliary Armor Repairers and Nano Paste, but I worry that replacing the paste would get a bit expensive even if I only turn that one on when it really hits the fan. I've also tried pulses, but they lack too much range to make up for it, as getting in that close to my enemies really increases the amount of damage I have to tank. |
Marc Callan
Interstellar Steel Templis Dragonaors
157
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Posted - 2013.05.17 16:05:00 -
[23] - Quote
One thing I tried once with a ratting Apoc was a Reactive Armor Hardener to complement a single LAR and two active armor hardeners. Of course, I was in null plexes and better able to control range. "Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred..." - Niccolo Machiavelli-á |
Ambusher Ituin
Roughneck Raiders
2
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Posted - 2013.05.17 16:29:00 -
[24] - Quote
The OP raised two questions: Is running L4 missions viable with T1 weapons and is it more profitable than mining at 10 mil ISK per hour.
Previous posters have assured him on the first question. I started running solo L4s in a CN Raven with T1 weapons and I never met a mission I couldn't tame, although I did discover some of the stupidest ways ever to lose ships. A corp mate just got into an Apoc and he's running solo L4s successfully by carefully choosing which missions to accept. So you should just tank it as best you can, get your DPS as high as you can and go forth.
The profitability question is different. The types of missions an L4 agent hands out depends on your standing with the agent. And the profitability depends in part on the security status of the system in which the agent resides, Here's one benchmark: If you accept the Angel Extravaganza mission from an L4 agent with whom you have a 10.0 standing in a 0.5 system, you will earn 20 million in mission awards and bounties and an additional 20 mil in salvage. Beats the tar out of solo mining. Few missions are quite as lucrative as Angel Ex, but nearly all L4 missions will beat 10 mil/hour when you combine the mission awards, bounties, and salvage. The margin will not be so great when your ship is equipped with T1 weapons, but it will still be more lucrative.
Fly safe.
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Fruitbat
Fate Corporation
0
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Posted - 2013.05.17 18:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
I am currently running lvl3 sec missions in a command ship and am interested in lvl 4's as its getting a bit fish in barrel tbh, I dont have a t1 apoc atm but i do have a Abaddon, i also only have large laser turret 4 but have armour compensation 4 on all 4 skills.
Is the abaddon ok for lvl4's? looking at the stats its a great tank with a few stats higher than an apoc. |
Tsukino Stareine
EVE University Ivy League
195
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Posted - 2013.05.17 20:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
erm, depending on command ship you should be able to runs 4s in it. |
Marc Callan
Interstellar Steel Templis Dragonaors
157
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Posted - 2013.05.18 11:55:00 -
[27] - Quote
Fruitbat wrote:I am currently running lvl3 sec missions in a command ship and am interested in lvl 4's as its getting a bit fish in barrel tbh, I dont have a t1 apoc atm but i do have a Abaddon, i also only have large laser turret 4 but have armour compensation 4 on all 4 skills.
Is the abaddon ok for lvl4's? looking at the stats its a great tank with a few stats higher than an apoc.
The Abaddon has a lot of great stats - bonuses to its laser cannons and its resists - but its problem is that it's a capacitor-hungry monster. Odyssey's bringing with it some changes to lasers - reduced cap demands and fitting requirements - and it'll take some time to figure out how all the battleships react to the tiericide changes, but for the moment, I'd be scared to use an Abaddon for long-duration sustained combat (such as in missions) unless I had either a pile of cap boosters in my hold or a Guardian ready to feed me a cap transfer. "Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred..." - Niccolo Machiavelli-á |
Fruitbat
Fate Corporation
0
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Posted - 2013.05.18 16:23:00 -
[28] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:erm, depending on command ship you should be able to runs 4s in it.
I'm running an Absolution
6 x heavy pulse II scorch & conf. lens 1x T2 Light missile with scourge missiles
med AB 2x T2 cap recharger
2x T2 Heatsink T2 tracking enhancer T2 Armour Rep Serpentis energized Kinetic membrane Dark blood energized Thermic membrane T2 energized EM membrane
med Aux nano pump 1 med Capacitor control circuit 1
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Throktar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
17
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Posted - 2013.05.18 19:35:00 -
[29] - Quote
I only use Navy Tachs on my Pally. Navy guns are so much better when it comes to cap use. After odyssey all beams will use less cap and less power grid, which is great.
I started playing in 2008 and about a month later I was running lvl 4's in my 1st BS ever...an Abbadon. I had that ship for about 3 months before I got blown up because of girlfriend aggro. Bought another one and I still have that same ship to this day. My point is, you can do it if you are careful and fit your ship well. Remember in Amarr ships you don't need to be cap stable, you just need to kill fast. |
Tsukino Stareine
EVE University Ivy League
198
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Posted - 2013.05.18 19:51:00 -
[30] - Quote
Fruitbat wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:erm, depending on command ship you should be able to runs 4s in it. I'm running an Absolution 6 x heavy pulse II scorch & conf. lens 1x T2 Light missile with scourge missiles med AB 2x T2 cap recharger 2x T2 Heatsink T2 tracking enhancer T2 Armour Rep Serpentis energized Kinetic membrane Dark blood energized Thermic membrane T2 energized EM membrane med Aux nano pump 1 med Capacitor control circuit 1 A friend said i should have a plate on there but im not so sure, also think the tracking computer might be a waste of space.
[Absolution, test] Reactive Armor Hardener Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Corelum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Heavy Assault Missile
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Energy Locus Coordinator I
Hobgoblin II x5
try dis, for sansha.
If doing serpentis just switch the em for kinetic hardener.
It tanks 330+ dps
579 DPS just from turrets
yes you will have to use a cap booster, but that's true for most ships that aren't T3s. |
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