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Ghost Hunter
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
86
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 05:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello,
Incursions are a curious subject in the EVE storyline. The repetitious attacks by Sansha's Nation exist in a state of limbo - although clearly possessing of advanced techniques/technology, game design restrictions hobble the over all 'world ending threat' to a 'nuisance' level. Incursion had a powerful feeling at the start of it, but as farming mechanics settled in its threat presentation evaporated.
What I propose is a face lift of Incursions, shifting it away from Sansha's Nation and to the Rogue Drones faction. This can enable a much smoother integration into the EVE story and help preserve the 'threat' value of future Big Bads in the EVE world. It also makes use of a faction that players can happily settle into as a farming mechanism.
For those unaware, Rogue Drones are semi-autonomous machines that act of their own interest and will. Most behave as extensions of a Hive Mind, but a few have something akin to true sentience. Their driving motives are difficult to discern, but we mostly see them collecting resources and violently propagating themselves in space.
Rogue Drones are every where in the New Eden star cluster, and they have different Hives spread out in space. Each Hive may be independent by itself, or in alliance with others, how they cooperate internally is not clear - equal sources point to one Hive Mind, or many local Hive Minds.
If we were to take Rogue Drones and face lift Incursions towards 'Outbreak', we can take what the Rogue Drones already do and fit it right in. The setup would be along the following lines :
A Rogue Drone Hive, or collection of Hives, begin a massive mobilization effort in a constellation. Enormous Hive fleets begin assaulting civilized space, consuming resources both raw and human. Stations are taken over, asteroid belts are stripped in record time, planets become harvesting grounds for their resources, etcetra.
No special trickery is necessary, no unique technology or otherwise has to be injected into the storyline. The motivation of the drones is all that changes - 'the why' becomes the story center piece. What caused these machines to up the ante? Whats their master plan?
At the end of an Outbreak, if it survives and 'ends', there's a couple options. The Drone Fleets can simply disappear into unknown parts of space, or be tied into another Outbreak else where. Conversely, if players 'finish' an Outbreak, they end up destroying the primary Hive(s) responsible - thus killing that strain entirely. There's definite room for there to be a 'oh they got away and things are worse now', and 'good work their over all effort has been reduced'.
This approach would enable a clean transition while still preserving the core game play players enjoy from Incursion. But wait, there's more! By using the Rogue Drones in an Outbreak environment, the planets they attack can be the ones where Dust Players do their NPC matches on. Cross connectivity can occur at this point: Dust Players can ask help from Outbreak runners on planets with orbital strikes, etcetra.
The net result is that in the storyline, players engage an enemy who fits the 'endless numbers' stratagem quite well. Although Sansha's Nation was built up to have this ability, players perceive that an end 'has to come'. The Sansha storyline can't truly progress while its stuck providing the material for a feature game mechanic. Rogue Drone cleaning up, however, may never have an end - the little buggers get every where like rabbits. Perhaps there is no grand plan to them, and all that has happened is we have taken their story habits and made it realized in the game world.
I hope you enjoyed my suggestion :)
As a final thought, there is something to be said about Incursions from different factions (angels, guristas, etc). I am not certain how feasible that would be in the game programming, and how much work would be involved custom tailoring that many Incursion settings. Rogue Drone Outbreaks to me seem to be the simplest means possible that can continue the 'global attack' capability.
Thank you for your time. True Slave Foundations Overseer
-ò |
DeLindsay
Galaxies Fall
108
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 07:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
Why not both? Even better, occasionally they spawn with overlapping systems and literally all out War happens with both fleets fighting each other AND New Eden. That'd bring some serious dynamics to Eve's "Raids". I'm all for sh*t going down at any time in any system that players have to deal with to continue business as usual, it adds not only to immersion but gives flexibility in the game and dynamic content (even though it's scripted content).
I realize there's a large part of Eve's community that would hate adding more dynamic content as they are happy to poo about their existence staring at mining lasers all day and night but I'm not one of them, I would welcome change always, keep the game interesting if nothing else.
Oh I can already hear the carebear tears and forums spamming about how some dynamic event is ruining their calm and cutting into their mining profits lol. That is all. |
Graelyn
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
465
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 07:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ghost, you've got a winner here. + Cardinal Graelyn + Owner/Operator, "The Summit" Amarr Loyalist of the Year --áYC113 |
Axel Kurki
Aseyakone
20
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 12:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
With a "migrating" Rogue Drone incursion, there could be a mechanic where an "unfinished" incursion (one that leaves on its own) will then cause the next incursion to spawn to be more severe in its effects. Not sure how much extra development time this would require, though. If there is a pattern that can be figured out where the incursions move, this could probably be metagamed in nullsec by willfully ignoring an incursion if there is a high chance that it's going to hit your neighbour next.
However, "challenge" is eventually tied in variety. And having more variants requires, if not more art assets then at least more game and "level" design time. If it is known beforehand what can be expected from site X, it doesn't matter if the incursion has Sansha, Rogue Drone, EoM or CONCORD rats. The people bringing the suitable "counter" will farm it.
Depending on the flexibility of the back end, there would be much promise on "factional incursions". This could be a tool for empowering lowsec, as well.
A CONCORD incursion in lowsec might make the area hisec-like. However, it should be - with some effort - possible to fight the law instead of the invincible CONCORD of hisec, as the organization is just establishing its operations. Its ships would spawn at key locations such as gates, special sites, belts and stations. The benefit would be another "kids' pool" for the more risk-averse people, possibly mixed with special sites. Some sites might be just rich resources/ISK with no effect on CONCORD presence (carrot to come to the constellation), some sites might be strengthening CONCORD presence, and some sites could be completed to weaken CONCORD presence. Naturally, opposing CONCORD couldn't reward CONCORD LP - it would probably have to reward LP to local pirate faction.
On the opposing side, various pirate factions could do incursions - but perhaps it is more suitable to deal with one idea at a time. (I went already off-topic from Rogue Drone incursions.) |
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
54
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 12:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Quote:the little buggers get every where like rabbits.
Laughed a little after the seriousness of the rest of the topic. Well done Ghost Hunter a good suggestion for adding some dynamic content. I'm not for a static universe and more DOES need to be done with Incursions to up the ante. Rogue Drones and Sansha maybe?
Well done Capsuleer, you get a +1 from me! My Feature\Idea:-áFast Character Switching "XP Stylee" |
Rayzilla Zaraki
Tandokuno
20
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 13:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
DeLindsay wrote:Why not both? Even better, occasionally they spawn with overlapping systems and literally all out War happens with both fleets fighting each other AND New Eden. That'd bring some serious dynamics to Eve's "Raids". I'm all for sh*t going down at any time in any system that players have to deal with to continue business as usual, it adds not only to immersion but gives flexibility in the game and dynamic content (even though it's scripted content).
I realize there's a large part of Eve's community that would hate adding more dynamic content as they are happy to poo about their existence staring at mining lasers all day and night but I'm not one of them, I would welcome change always, keep the game interesting if nothing else.
Oh I can already hear the carebear tears and forums spamming about how some dynamic event is ruining their calm and cutting into their mining profits lol.
I agree, why not both?
There is the storyline developing linking the Sansha incursions with the Jove somehow, I'd like to see that develop. But the farm-ability of adding in the rogue drones is a great idea. Maybe the Jove are causing them to go rogue to help their buddies the Sanshas? If nothing blew up, no one would buy your stuff. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1048
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 13:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
tbh i never understood the whole sansha incursion thing in the first place. i can get a borg-ish civilization that assimilates people as it goes along but why would they continue invading extremely hostile space for years after getting their cyborg asses handed to them time after time after time? with drones it's a whole other matter. anyone who ever used a computer can attest that it has no sense of self-preservation whatsoever, so the perseverance and failure to adapt can easily be explained by a "faulty strategic algorithm" or some such.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Ruby Amatucci
Tomorrowland Orphanage Shaktipat Revelators
42
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 14:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
Signed. |
DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
16
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 15:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
I like the idea.
The Drones strip a system clean of the roids. One payout would be that large amounts of alloys would be dropped as a mission reward.
Another drop would be new implants based upon Drone technology. Such implants would be similar to the implants that we already have.
To make your idea even more interesting I suggest that Rogue Drone Incursions be accessed only after a certain amount of LP from the Sansha Incursions have been won.
For example you would need 100,000 LP from the Sansha Incursions to purchase a Gate Key that allows you to enter the Rogue Drone area for a week.
From there you would need to secure special passes by taking out Drones in the asteroid belts that allow you access to the Rogue Drone complex sites.
Your idea would also fit in very nicely with DUST514 as an expansion patch. |
Ghost Hunter
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
102
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 18:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
Some good thoughts in here!
CCP Goliath GÇÅ@CCP_Goliath 8h wrote: @TSFGhostHunter @ccp_falcon @ccp_eterne @ccp_goliath Good post, but what problem are you trying to solve? Seems p.cosmetic
My initial idea is cosmetic - game design changes and the such are not my focal point with this post.
The problem as I perceive it is that the Sansha storyline is deadlocked, and that the Incursion mechanic is preventing its 'completion' or 'next step'. I could be entirely wrong, but this is the perception I and others in the community feel is the case.
During the precursor live events to Incursion, a lot of effort was put into hyping up the Sansha for their massive offensive against the Empires. This was effective, and then Incursion came - the first few attempts at running them had hilarious results. People were threatened by the unknown, because something new had come into the system. Then they adapted to it.
The threat of Sansha's Nation soon evaporated. Nowadays the only people troubled by it are the truly oblivious who aren't aware they ran into one. There's no teeth to Incursions save perhaps the Cynojammer effect in Nullsec. This at its heart is a game design issue - but it has a direct correlation to storyline value, as well.
If game design is willing to install mechanics into Incursions that make them 'dangerous', the storyline doesn't need a shift. To match the threat of the Sansha on their rampage, Incursions need to be able to carry that threat through. Elements players cannot build a perfect/optimal defense for need to be injected - otherwise it's your seasonal Sansha rains, followed by complimentary ISK.
If game design does not want to do that, then shifting Incursions towards Outbreak would be healthier for the storyline I think. The Rogue Drones are mysterious in their motives, but an epidemic to people when they go on their resource gathering sprees. They already do this in the story and game, so escalating that to Incursion's tier is not a stretch of the imagination. The Sansha become mobile in the storyline again, and the endless hordes nature of Incursion content is maintained for that community.
In essence, Sansha's Nation was built up to be a major villain - but they turned into a farming mechanic. Returning their story mobility can let them be the big villain again because they would be unpredictable. I get the impression from people they 'expect an end' to the Incursion storyline in some capacity. That can never come as long as game play needs the Sansha, though.
Correct me if I'm wrong, as I have no awareness how the high level planning occurs.
Daniel Plain wrote:tbh i never understood the whole sansha incursion thing in the first place. i can get a borg-ish civilization that assimilates people as it goes along but why would they continue invading extremely hostile space for years after getting their cyborg asses handed to them time after time after time? with drones it's a whole other matter. anyone who ever used a computer can attest that it has no sense of self-preservation whatsoever, so the perseverance and failure to adapt can easily be explained by a "faulty strategic algorithm" or some such.
Because the Nation is being sent by Sansha himself to attack civilized space - for revenge and other motives. Sansha are relentless in the same capacity as Rogue Drones; fatigue and morale are unimportant to them because of their cyborg nature. They can fit the mechanic very well, but its wall banging their storyline presence fiercely doing so.
DeLindsay wrote: Why not both? Even better, occasionally they spawn with overlapping systems and literally all out War happens with both fleets fighting each other AND New Eden. That'd bring some serious dynamics to Eve's "Raids". I'm all for sh*t going down at any time in any system that players have to deal with to continue business as usual, it adds not only to immersion but gives flexibility in the game and dynamic content (even though it's scripted content).
I realize there's a large part of Eve's community that would hate adding more dynamic content as they are happy to poo about their existence staring at mining lasers all day and night but I'm not one of them, I would welcome change always, keep the game interesting if nothing else.
Oh I can already hear the carebear tears and forums spamming about how some dynamic event is ruining their calm and cutting into their mining profits lol.
I imagine there would be technical limitations towards an 'overlap' that might be not worthwhile to pursue. Having Incursions and Outbreaks is an interesting idea, and could very well happen. The purpose of an Incursion would fundamentally change, however - dictated more by story need than random spawning mechanics. If a major Sansha Live Event was to occur, an Incursion could be spawned in that constellation for instance.
Outbreaks fulfill the need for a reliable game mechanic to cater to the community that enjoys Incursion-type content.
True Slave Foundations Overseer
-ò |
|
Swiftstrike1
Interfector INC. Fade 2 Black
27
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 18:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
I think replacing and/or augmenting some of the Sansha incursions with Rogue Drone "incursions" (Outbreaks) would be a very believable progression. I like the idea of Sansha fighting the Drones for resources too, but since Sansha slave soldiers are supposedly cybernetically enhanced human beings there's also the potential for Sansha to ally with the Rogue Drones. (Srs bad guy fleet = Live story event?)
I'd like to see new incursion sites and harsher penalties for not defeating an incursion too, but those idea are probably best posted in the Incursion forum... |
commander aze
Sub--Zero
4
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 20:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
I like the idea gives more to work with as not all the time incursions spawn in high sec this would give more options for incursion runners if there are more to run. keeping the similar difficulty as the incursions sites would be nice. same tiered setup as well. the 1, 10, 25 and 50 man fleets for sites is pretty nice. |
Zanzibar Heroshima
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
21
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 20:45:00 -
[13] - Quote
Overall seems like a fairly great idea
Ghost Hunter wrote: I hope you enjoyed my suggestion :)
This however both scares and confuses me. Ghost shouldn't use emotes. |
DeLindsay
Galaxies Fall
114
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 21:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
Quote:I imagine there would be technical limitations towards an 'overlap' that might be not worthwhile to pursue. Having Incursions and Outbreaks is an interesting idea, and could very well happen. The purpose of an Incursion would fundamentally change, however - dictated more by story need than random spawning mechanics. If a major Sansha Live Event was to occur, an Incursion could be spawned in that constellation for instance.
Outbreaks fulfill the need for a reliable game mechanic to cater to the community that enjoys Incursion-type content. Trion Worlds figured out how to do it in Rift, why can't CCP do the same in Eve. The normal event is either Incursion or Outbreak, each with their very own scripts. The "dynamic" effect would be when (at random, or scripted) the two events overlap by 1 or more systems and they have scripting written so that if the other fleet is in the same system they fight them as well as their normal scripting to fight player ships. Here's a logical example:
A: Sansha Incursion (scripting has them fighting player ships)
B: Rogue Drone Outbreak (scripting has them fighting player ships)
A+B: A attacks/defends against B while still attacking player ships, B attacks/defends against A while still attacking player ships. Scripting would allow for A+B to attack (primary) a single player ship simultaneously, although they wouldn't be coordinated, it'd just happen based on the roll of the proverbial dice (better have strong Logi and high EHP). That is all. |
Aracturus
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
131
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 00:09:00 -
[15] - Quote
I endorse this product and\or service. This is now a WIDOT thread! |
Caljiav Ocanon
12
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 00:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
Gets a +1 from me. More dynamic content would be a good thing. Though I fly through the valley of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am aligned to a safespot and warping out. - Me 2013 |
Frake Lomes
Century Citadel
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 01:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
It would be nice to have a little more dynamic stuff happening. +1 |
Onslaughtor
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
52
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 04:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
I support this Idea. +1 |
Sicks
Doom Generation THE H0NEYBADGER
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 07:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
My idea is too similar to your idea for it's own thread, so I'll contribute here
This should be what makes 0.0 space actually dangerous.
CCP schedules another event for some event like the Seyllin Incident that further jogs WH space and gives the sleepers a rattle. "Sleeper Incursions" start spawning . But not just any old sleepers. Nope. Sleeper Dreads. And Sleeper Dread incursions aren't like normal incursions. They warp to your poses and SBU's and TCU's and reinforce them. They shoot the modules and services. And they come back at the end of the reinforcement timer.
Obviously the frequency of such 'incursions' would need to be balanced. But it should be more frequent the longer a system is empty. This would mean that any 0.0 space with sov, needs to be lived in and defended regularly. Maybe then going for a 0.0 roam wouldn't be 50 jumps of dead systems before getting hotdropped
The appearance of Sleeper drones in K-space causes the normal Rogue Drones to go berserk, and start raiding all of New Eden. *diabolical laughter* |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
1232
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 11:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sicks wrote:My idea is too similar to your idea for it's own thread, so I'll contribute here This should be what makes 0.0 space actually dangerous. CCP schedules another event for some event like the Seyllin Incident that further jogs WH space and gives the sleepers a rattle. "Sleeper Incursions" start spawning . But not just any old sleepers. Nope. Sleeper Dreads. And Sleeper Dread incursions aren't like normal incursions. They warp to your poses and SBU's and TCU's and reinforce them. They shoot the modules and services. And they come back at the end of the reinforcement timer. Obviously the frequency of such 'incursions' would need to be balanced. But it should be more frequent the longer a system is empty. This would mean that any 0.0 space with sov, needs to be lived in and defended regularly. Maybe then going for a 0.0 roam wouldn't be 50 jumps of dead systems before getting hotdropped The appearance of Sleeper drones in K-space causes the normal Rogue Drones to go berserk, and start raiding all of New Eden. *diabolical laughter*
But ratting is really boring, and forcing people to do it is really not the way to keep them interested... |
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Sicks
Doom Generation THE H0NEYBADGER
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 00:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
Quote:But ratting is really boring, and forcing people to do it is really not the way to keep them interested...
+edit: This wouldn't really be ratting, it'd be an NPC attacking player owned structures in ways that can't be ignored.
Ratting won't be boring if it threatens your sov and supercapitals. WH escalations and Mothership incursions are probably the least-boring PVE in the game right now. |
Xavier Thorm
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
89
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 15:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
I like the sounds of this a lot. |
Daichi Yamato
Swamp Bucket Swamp Bucket Empire
761
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 16:31:00 -
[23] - Quote
NPC's with teeth sound fun. but what would stop us adapting to it all the same? are we just adding dps and tank to rats to make them harder? do we still have to warp to them in order for anything to happen or will they seek out and attack capsuleers and gate camp like real players?
the general powercreep of NPC's wont be enough to make them interesting.
Sicks wrote:Quote:But ratting is really boring, and forcing people to do it is really not the way to keep them interested... +edit: This wouldn't really be ratting, it'd be an NPC attacking player owned structures in ways that can't be ignored. Ratting won't be boring if it threatens your sov and supercapitals. WH escalations and Mothership incursions are probably the least-boring PVE in the game right now.
forgive me, but this would still be very boring. There are no vets in EVE. Only varying levels of Noobery. |
Ghost Hunter
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
113
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 17:40:00 -
[24] - Quote
Giving NPC's teeth may require more game design perspective than what I have.
For instance, pulling off the top of my head - emulate player behavior. Teach the NPCs to have roaming gank squads, or hotdrop in, or specifically 'probe out' and hunt players in missions/sites/etc. Allow them to have the same tools players use, and they become just as dangerous as other players.
But how do you program that? Is it a good idea to give NPCs the same potential as players? How will it affect the consumer base? etcetra.
The feature as a whole needs to be 'threatening' but not 'impossible'. It needs to be difficult and behave in nature similar to a campaign against players. You need to take out strategic targets and cripple the enemy, not sit in one range of sites and pad your wallet. Some parts of it should be profitable, but others should be driven by their threat value - not their isk value.
This can sound fairly obvious, but it represents a fundamental shift in how to look at the NPC environment. Players and developers alike I've spoken to are generally of the mind NPCs are 'lesser creatures'. In EVE, they exist to enable your game play against other players. The mentality you find in Guild Wars 2, or other MMOs, where NPCs are constructed to be seriously threatening, isn't found here.
Before we can pull out specific suggestions on how to make NPCs dangerous, we have to decide - are prepared to make them dangerous? The mentality that has prevailed in this game for a decade, where NPCs exist only to pad your wallet, would have to be removed entirely. Players would need to adapt to an environment where it is equipped and prepared to murder your multi-billion isk marauder if you aren't taking it seriously.
This is why I offer the Outbreak method - it is a continuation of the status quo. It can stabilize the Incursion area of the storyline with a healthier prospect that is nonvolatile. If we were to take the other route, and make Incursions 'dangerous', we would have to reevaluate fundamentals of the game. NPCs would have be redesigned, if not globally then locally, to have the tools that players cannot 100% anticipate. The idea you can get 'ganked' by the system like it was a player would have become accepted. The idea that some fights will just be 'unfair', like it can be with player fights, would have to become accepted.
In the end, giving Incursions real meat might simply be too daunting. It comes down to if the community wants to continue to treat NPCs as flying banks, or an actual challenge.
True Slave Foundations Overseer
-ò |
Freya Kaundur
Paradigm Shift.
23
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 17:59:00 -
[25] - Quote
I actually really like this idea. idk if this was said but you could tie this in with dust 514. have the outbreaks take place by planets. and this "infected" planets would be the drone pvp grounds for the dust bunnies to get isk and crafting materials. but these would not be like the "normal" pve ground. but much harder where it would actually take a focused squad and mabee some air support. it would be incursions on the ground. I think that would be very cool. and you could even tie it in with the current incursions. |
Sicks
Doom Generation THE H0NEYBADGER
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 22:25:00 -
[26] - Quote
Quote:but what would stop us adapting to it all the same?
I think you'll be hard pressed to find ANYTHING that stops us from adapting.
Quote:For instance, pulling off the top of my head - emulate player behavior. Teach the NPCs to have roaming gank squads, or hotdrop in, or specifically 'probe out' and hunt players in missions/sites/etc. Allow them to have the same tools players use, and they become just as dangerous as other players.
These might be a bit too much to expect from NPCs. Given that they are non-player characters, they do need to exhibit some manner of predictable behaviour, otherwise people will just avoid them entirely. It may be difficult to figure out, but there needs to be some pattern that will allow the player to come up with a solution for dealing with them.
The more I ponder this however, the more I think it'd be a great way to clean up empty 0.0.
Perhaps they only spawn in Sov space (or maybe just sleepers invade sov space? or "insert new dangerous force here"?). Perhaps in the sov window there could be an additional measurement for the amount of activity from the sov owner in that system. The less activity, the higher the chance sleepers or rogue drones invade and attack the sov structures of that system. Also, the MORE sov that sov owner has, the greater difficulty of the sleepers that spawn. So if a corp only has one or two systems, at most they'd be attacked by a couple dreads with battleship support. Alliances that own entire regions should need to mobilize supercaps against the invasion fleets that attack their unpopulated systems.
You just need to make the NPCs matter, just a little bit. Right now if you jump into a 0.0 system and there's rats on the gate, you don't care, because they aren't going to do anything to you. You're either going to warp off to your next destination, or you're going to farm them up because they're easy to kill. When sleeper rats set off my armor buzzer on a shiny fit archon, and I'm tackled and losing cap fast to neuts, pve actually gets kind of fun.
And just to be clear, I'm not currently a 0.0 pilot, and I've never really gotten very deep into the whole 'taking sov' business. I've done my time in 0.0 and my biggest peeve was the vast number of empty systems in apparent "sovereign" space. You shouldn't be able to drive 50 jumps through someone's space without running into them. If someone owns 50 systems you should be able to regularly find the owners of that space there. Not just holed up in one system stuck off in a corner somewhere. But since there may not be a good reason for other players to go and structure grind a bunch of systems with little tactical value, NPC's should do this sort of cleanup monotony for us. While making things a bit more interesting for the space owners at the same time. If sov starts being about taking systems you actually need, it would open 0.0 up to smaller groups that maybe don't have 200man supercap fleet required to actually hold key systems these days. |
Daichi Yamato
Swamp Bucket Swamp Bucket Empire
761
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 22:50:00 -
[27] - Quote
Sicks wrote:Quote:but what would stop us adapting to it all the same? I think you'll be hard pressed to find ANYTHING that stops us from adapting.
how about the need to keep adapting?
Quote:These might be a bit too much to expect from NPCs. Given that they are non-player characters, they do need to exhibit some manner of predictable behaviour, otherwise people will just avoid them entirely. It may be difficult to figure out, but there needs to be some pattern that will allow the player to come up with a solution for dealing with them.
why? why should i not have to adapt on the fly and bring equipment to be prepared for anything just like in a PvP scenario? if it just becomes something else where i can accurately predict enemy fleet composition, what dps i need, exactly what tank i need, spawn triggers etc then there isnt really any point in any of this. There are no vets in EVE. Only varying levels of Noobery. |
Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Extinction Level Event.
467
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 23:34:00 -
[28] - Quote
This is a really good Idea for a new feature!! also congratulation for the good text! Please read these! > New POS system > New SOV system |
Sicks
Doom Generation THE H0NEYBADGER
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 00:35:00 -
[29] - Quote
Quote:how about the need to keep adapting? Not sure what you mean... I was basically saying whatever they put into the game, people will adapt to.
Quote:why? why should i not have to adapt on the fly and bring equipment to be prepared for anything just like in a PvP scenario? if it just becomes something else where i can accurately predict enemy fleet composition, what dps i need, exactly what tank i need, spawn triggers etc then there isnt really any point in any of this. It's impossible to be "prepared for anything". When we're talking about players, if someone wants you dead, there will be a way for them to pull it off. Everything in eve has a counter. If a game doesn't have rules, objectives, or mechanics, it probably wont be fun.
I'm not saying there needs to be an eve-survival for every pve engagement, but it needs to at least be a system that can be explained and understood. In the example I provided in my last post, someone could be like "they attacked your tower because noone's been in that system for a week" which would mean you've either got to focus your operations in that system, or move out, or defend it every time it's challenged. If you're just running a normal anomaly somewhere and suddenly some rats decide to hotdrop into your site, bubble you, and scoop your loot and frozen corpse, without any rhyme or reason, that won't be fun. Most would report that as a bug. And saying "sometimes npcs will show up out nowhere and resize your rectal cavity" isn't much of a mechanic.
With any mechanic there needs to be consequences (good or bad) for whatever action (or inaction) you take. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1182
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Posted - 2013.06.07 08:59:00 -
[30] - Quote
Ghost Hunter wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:tbh i never understood the whole sansha incursion thing in the first place. i can get a borg-ish civilization that assimilates people as it goes along but why would they continue invading extremely hostile space for years after getting their cyborg asses handed to them time after time after time? with drones it's a whole other matter. anyone who ever used a computer can attest that it has no sense of self-preservation whatsoever, so the perseverance and failure to adapt can easily be explained by a "faulty strategic algorithm" or some such. Because the Nation is being sent by Sansha himself to attack civilized space - for revenge and other motives. Sansha are relentless in the same capacity as Rogue Drones; fatigue and morale are unimportant to them because of their cyborg nature. They can fit the mechanic very well, but its wall banging their storyline presence fiercely doing so.
i'm not an expert on lore but i faintly remember reading that at least sansha and his top officers have retained their free will and should be capable of making rational decisions (at some level at least). right now, the whole incursion story reminds me of blackadder goes forth...
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
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