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Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
417
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Posted - 2013.05.13 22:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hey folks!
So. Topic of discussion. We all like new, shiny ships to play with, blow up, build, etc. I don't think that's in doubt. However, I'm wondering what people think of the spike in liveried ships.
There are a large number liveried ships being handed out by CCP's marketing division as hooks for the special edition, as rewards for buddy program invites, as perks for buying various tickets or stream accounts, and so on; whether's it's various repainted Iterons, Catalysts, the rookie pirate frigates, various reskins of the Magnate, and so on, it's clear that a lot are going in.
For a long while, most of the limited edition and rare ships that existed in the world were things that appeared through in-game events as prizes, were given to the player base as a whole, and over time were integrated into LP stores as an additional, long-term objective for play that provided something that expanded the ship base as a whole. In the case of prize ships, these were often individual ships that phenomenally outperformed standard ships, and so were an object of immense value that the recipient could polish, fly, or sell as they liked; in the case of gifts, they've been hooked to anniversaries, the release of expansions, or other such things. The LP store is self-explanatory.
So. When Incarna was under development, the Art department, from what I hear, was absolutely swamped, churning out goods for the NEX store. While I think we'll generally agree that Incarna's failure was two-pronged (excessive focus on microtransactions over features; featureless, incomplete FiS deployment while FiS was being neglected), it's clear that there are art assets that haven't seen the light of day due to Incarna's initially flubbed release. To this end, CCP Art probably has a significant backlog of reskinned ships that haven't been released yet -- as evidenced by the appearance of Ishukone-liveried Scorpions in a couple recent events, one with ties back to the 2012 Fanfest charity poker game.
Here's the thing I'm wondering about. Many of these ships are being touted by Marketing as being limited edition. However, these ships are part of entire lines of faction-liveried vessels which are hidden away. I worry that Marketing is boxing itself in. Either it then breaks this vow when CCP gets around to allowing modifiable paint jobs (whenever -that- is), or it prevents CCP from giving people a vanity option they'd enjoy having.
So. What do people think about this? Is marketing overplaying the mothballed Incarna assets? Is it not important enough to care about? Should CCP find a more accessible and interesting way to integrate vanity ships into the game? Or should they generally scrap the concept due to its association with Incarna's AUR debacle? |
iskflakes
440
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Posted - 2013.05.13 23:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP marketing do not honor any promises about limited edition or unique ships. Every one that I know of has been re-released, usually in ridiculous quantities within about 6 months.
That gnosis you thought was so unique? There are already plans to create thousands of new BPCs as part of the collectors edition. That NEX item you got as part of a 20-PLEX promotion? Made available for 5m in unlimited quantities within a few months. The catalysts, quafe shirts (and everything else) all have been or will be re-released. - |
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
296
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Posted - 2013.05.13 23:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
Special edition != limited edition.
Simples. Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
Sometimes when I post, I look at my sig and wish that I'd follow my own god damned advice. |
Julius Priscus
104
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Posted - 2013.05.13 23:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
iskflakes wrote:CCP marketing do not honor any promises about limited edition or unique ships. Every one that I know of has been re-released, usually in ridiculous quantities within about 6 months.
That gnosis you thought was so unique? There are already plans to create thousands of new BPCs as part of the collectors edition. That NEX item you got as part of a 20-PLEX promotion? Made available for 5m in unlimited quantities within a few months. The catalysts, quafe shirts (and everything else) all have been or will be re-released.
what about the tourney ships? they have not been "re-released" have they? -»\_(pâä)_/-»-á Sup cracka ! |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
49
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Posted - 2013.05.13 23:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
SUPPLIES ARE LIMITED*
*supplies are not limited. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
3821
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Posted - 2013.05.13 23:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Just remember that you are special and unique, just like everybody else. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
iskflakes
440
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Posted - 2013.05.13 23:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
Julius Priscus wrote:what about the tourney ships? they have not been "re-released" have they?
They weren't used as part of a marketing promotion, but as a reward. Generally the limited edition rewards for ingame activity have stayed rare, but anything used in a promotion doesn't stay rare for long. - |
Tom Gerard
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1034
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Posted - 2013.05.13 23:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
I like the special edition ships.
I personally bought the CE because I wanted to give CCP more money, not even joking I give so many worthless assholes so much of my god damned money i might as well give it to people I like.
In other parts of the internet they are selling "founders" packages that give forum badges, etc.
I'd pay for a forum badge =) One of the oldest mission players in EVE designed a chart that explains stat priority in regards to mission running, compared Alpha, DPS, Ship Speed and Sig Radius and scores them. http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m24dbrfuWn1r86ax8o1_1280.jpg |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
1566
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Posted - 2013.05.14 00:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
I still think LP stores should be expanded with appropriate colors for ships. Quafe Corporation LP store should offer the full lineup of Quafe colored tech 1 ships, for example. No stat increases would come with the special colors, unless they are Navy ships. Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Sub-Director of Public Relations |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1087
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Posted - 2013.05.14 00:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
When they release customisable ship skins, maybe we'll be able to change the colour of a Magnate to the Sarum scheme, but it won't show up on the overview as a 'Sarum Magnate', just a normal Magnate that's coloured red? Having lots of ships on grid with names like 'Sarum Magnate' would make comprehending overview information too difficult anyway.
At the moment, it'd be great to actually use the Nefantar Thrasher in PvP as a change to the normal Thrasher, but you won't. Almost no-one will, because you don't want your collectible destroyed, and losing the ~billion isk? ship isn't really worth the novelty of the new colour scheme. If you could just change a normal Thrasher's colour to white, people could enjoy the colour (zoomed out all the way), but the Nefantar Thrasher would still be collectible.
iskflakes wrote:That gnosis you thought was so unique? There are already plans to create thousands of new BPCs as part of the collectors edition. That NEX item you got as part of a 20-PLEX promotion? Made available for 5m in unlimited quantities within a few months. The catalysts, quafe shirts (and everything else) all have been or will be re-released. In the Gnosis' case, the collector's edition BPC was announced at fanfest, way before the ship was released to anyone |
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Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
417
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Posted - 2013.05.14 00:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
I don't really care about Limited Edition as a thing, myself -- definitely not a collector. I'm just wondering if Marketing isn't going a bit nuts with the Incarna-created assets, when CCP could use those assets in a way that's more constructive for the player base.
Consider that Incarna items -- that's to say, Navy uniforms -- are available via FW LP stores. That sets precedent for other methods of distribution for vanity items. Alternatively, CCP could start exploring non-Navy faction versions, expanding the T1 ship line via specific corporation/faction vessels.
Basically, my whole bag is that these are EVE art assets which could be used more constructively than they are. |
Lord Mantus
Death Troopers Disaster Strikes
1
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Posted - 2013.05.14 00:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
iskflakes wrote:Julius Priscus wrote:what about the tourney ships? they have not been "re-released" have they? They weren't used as part of a marketing promotion, but as a reward. Generally the limited edition rewards for ingame activity have stayed rare, but anything used in a promotion doesn't stay rare for long.
Hey isk want to buy some 'limited edition' ships :D?
As isk said most ships given out at every major event such as anniversaries - Christmas etc gets 'rewarded to players' later on, general rule of thumb is to sell them while there new and the market has no 'average' and buy them for low cost while there is a lot in circulation then sell later on when there isn't many left.
I made about 6 bill off genosis's on the first day they were available mainly due to there being 500mill buy orders for them :P
i've been sold a few at 20-30 mill all over the place but i will just keep them for now and see how the market reacts in the next couple months especially after navy battle cruisers are released. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1087
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Posted - 2013.05.14 00:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
ah, what i'm trying to say is that releasing a limited 'sarum magnate' doesn't preclude releasing a 'sarum' colour scheme for a normal magnate |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3372
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Posted - 2013.05.14 06:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
iskflakes wrote:CCP marketing do not honor any promises about limited edition or unique ships. Every one that I know of has been re-released, usually in ridiculous quantities within about 6 months.
That gnosis you thought was so unique? There are already plans to create thousands of new BPCs as part of the collectors edition. That NEX item you got as part of a 20-PLEX promotion? Made available for 5m in unlimited quantities within a few months. The catalysts, quafe shirts (and everything else) all have been or will be re-released.
So mad.
I still haven't got an answer to the following question from you:
Why should your speculative investments be free from risk when no other investment in EVE is immune from the possibility of a sudden CCP nerf leaving the investor long in a falling market?
Or, if you're a collector, as you claim, why do you care what price the items you have collected would fetch if sold? This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Remiel Pollard
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
1464
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Posted - 2013.05.14 06:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Point of interest.
I haven't seen a Utu for a while. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
374
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Posted - 2013.05.14 06:36:00 -
[16] - Quote
Yeah, I like it more when the unique ships and skins come from truly rare sources, like alliance tournaments or specific events.
I'd rather keep birthday gifts/etc at the snowball/fireworks level, or something consumable like boosters. |
Julius Rigel
88
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Posted - 2013.05.14 08:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Should CCP find a more accessible and interesting way to integrate vanity ships into the game? I haven't read the concepts for customizable skins (if someone feels like pointing me towards these articles I'd love to skim them), but I don't think that this and the limited edition ships are related in any way.
Limited edition ships are limited edition ships. They are different items in the database. Whereas custom skins would be a system to put a personal touch on an existing ship.
I don't have a solid opinion on ship skins. But I think that limited ships are being abused by CCP to skew the events business, and it is hurting not only the competition (if you don't have a limited edition ship as a prize, you're paddling upstream in terms of exposure) but also is hurting the fundamental mechanisms of EVE:
EVE is a game built on the premise of a harsh, unforgiving sandbox space simulator, where the rules of the game environment (the game mechanics) are the only limit to what you can and cannot do, and the community and the social norms that are founded on those mechanics are being disturbed by this.
For example, a very important part of EVE is how trust works, and how you conduct your business with other players. A person can betray your confidence and run away with your money if you haven't covered your bases. It's an essential gameplay element in my opinion, and it is taken away from players such as TornSoul, who can't in the same fashion turn the BIG business into a scam in exchange for the built-up reputation, because of CCP's intervention. Along the same notion, players who play the BIG lottery don't have the same risk-reward consideration, because CCP is there, looming over the event with their power to keep everything in line.
As for a solution to this problem that would allow limited edition ships to stay a limited commodity, I don't have one off the top of my head, but it's only a matter of sitting down and hammering out ideas to find one that might work. Do YOU like to undock? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14260
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Posted - 2013.05.14 09:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
iskflakes wrote:That gnosis you thought was so unique? Who on earth thought it was GÇ£uniqueGÇ¥ in any way? A couple of hundred thousands will be directly seeded into the game; a couple of thousand more are being added later through BPCs.
An GÇ£everyone gets oneGÇ¥ ship is, by very definition, not unique.
Quote:CCP marketing do not honor any promises about limited edition or unique ships. GǪand they pretty much never label them as such either, so that works out ok. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2457
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Posted - 2013.05.14 17:59:00 -
[19] - Quote
Meh. I've been burned so many times on ship re-re-releases it's kind of silly. Still, I like seeing all of eve's ships in wider circulation. The only thing I would like to see is more silver magnates getting released, and for the love of F*#% issue out a bunch of Gold Magnates CCP. What the hell is the point of maintaining the ship's model and id in the DB if nobody can have one? Hell, there's thousands of the damn things on the Chinese server, serenity. CCP: Release the gold!!!
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Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
418
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Posted - 2013.05.14 19:26:00 -
[20] - Quote
Welll. The really super-rare ships? Like Revenents, Imperial, Federate, State issue...? If it's a reward achieved through competitive play, I don't see an issue. It's the marketing hooks that bug me -- because then it's just a shiny thing with irregular release, too rare to see flying around, but not so rare as to be special and denote either wealth or competitive prowess. |
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Azami Nevinyrall
Carbon Circle Tactical Narcotics Team
843
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Posted - 2013.05.14 19:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
Tom Gerard wrote:I like the special edition ships.
I personally bought the CE because I wanted to give CCP more money, not even joking I give so many worthless assholes so much of my god damned money i might as well give it to people I like.
In other parts of the internet they are selling "founders" packages that give forum badges, etc.
I'd pay for a forum badge =) F*CK the in game ****, I'm buying the CE JUST for the Rifter. I'm not entirely clear on the point of this, but I do have a sudden urge to jump in a catalyst and blow up a miner. Twitter! - @AzamiNevinyrall I'm half expecting a ban for this post. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2458
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Posted - 2013.05.14 20:13:00 -
[22] - Quote
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:Tom Gerard wrote:I like the special edition ships.
I personally bought the CE because I wanted to give CCP more money, not even joking I give so many worthless assholes so much of my god damned money i might as well give it to people I like.
In other parts of the internet they are selling "founders" packages that give forum badges, etc.
I'd pay for a forum badge =) F*CK the in game ****, I'm buying the CE JUST for the Rifter. heh... I'd do it just for a gold pod. Because I'm worth it.
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iskflakes
442
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Posted - 2013.05.14 22:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:So mad.
I still haven't got an answer to the following question from you:
Why should your speculative investments be free from risk when no other investment in EVE is immune from the possibility of a sudden CCP nerf leaving the investor long in a falling market?
Or, if you're a collector, as you claim, why do you care what price the items you have collected would fetch if sold?
No EVE player can ask for a risk free existence, would there be any fun in investing if rare items were guaranteed to stay rare? No, the only issue I have is with the misleading wording on CCP's advertisements and promotions, as well as the confusing name given to the market group in which most of these items live. The words "limited edition", "limited issue", "special edition", "limited release" and "unique" all have very similar meanings, and most players do not have the experience to realize that all of them mean "this item is actually not unique in any way, now or in the future".
As an investor and speculator I enjoy these re-releases as they are very good for business. The new items can be sold for a large profit immediately, and then rebought a few days later at a huge discount, only to be resold over the next 4 months at gradually increasing prices before finally being dumped to buy orders once the first news of the re-release appears.
While the re-releases are a boon for veteran players they are distinctly harmful to new players who have not learned the marketing doublespeak. My foremost concern is, of course, for them. As part of my efforts to help new players I would like to remind them that a promise made by CCP as part of a promotion is about as watertight as the promise of an ISK doubler who you encountered in Jita local chat -- both want your money and will say anything to get it.
New players are really the only ones who lose out here, and that is something I think should be changed. - |
Julius Priscus
105
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Posted - 2013.05.14 23:58:00 -
[24] - Quote
iskflakes wrote:[quote=RubyPorto]So mad.
would you stfu already???
the only true limited edition ships in eve are theones that were given out once.. IE tourney ships and special event ships.
the rest is ONLY gotten from give away events such as birthdays, Christmas etc.. and have no real way of the general populace of remaking them.. and imo should be bpc give aways to help chew through minerals etc.
now if you don't like how ccp seeds the limited "edition ships".. maybe I should give you a band aid for your rectum? ( just saying ) coz you sound seriously butt hurt over it all.
in the mean time its just a game so get over it :) -»\_(pâä)_/-»-á Sup cracka ! |
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