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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14263
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Posted - 2013.05.14 16:55:00 -
[31] - Quote
Vinzent Arran wrote:I think the real question we should be asking is "Are the guns locked to the inertial frame of the ship, or do they carry their own inertial frame?"
For example if someone was on the moon pointing at earth of course the guns will never actually have to track, since they're locked to the inertial frame of the moon, but what if the guns had a gyrostabilizer to lock them to their own inertial frame. They would now have to track the earth eventhough the moon is still always facing the earth. GǪyou mean like this? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
646
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Posted - 2013.05.14 16:59:00 -
[32] - Quote
Why don't you have to spin your ship to keep the engines pointing in the opposite direction from that which you want to accelerate in?
Why could they not just spin their ship in space to match your orbit, also not requiring them to move their guns to hit you?
How would a web actually work anyway?
Why can you bounce off things, taking no damage?
Why do our ships not require fuel?
How do projectiles and hybrids have infinite speed?
How to you mount a 1600 mm think armor plate to your battleship in like 1 second? The same 1600mm plate that you just took off your cruiser that is 1/10th the size of your battleship... but it fits perfectly...
If you start asking questions, the whole game breaks down. |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
970
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Posted - 2013.05.14 18:44:00 -
[33] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote: If you start asking questions, the whole game breaks down.
that is true... when talking about things that would otherwise break the game like not having a speed limit and slowing down after a pulse from a mwd
however this is a fundamental fact when talking about guns that rotate to track moving targets, that if i follow a ship perfectly behind him at the same speed and direction we both have zero tracking adjustments.
If missiles were treated the same way kiting condors wouldnt hit for **** just like the poor **** they are TDing and that definitely does not make any sense.....
Soooo why when if i fly to reduce my tracking am i penalized, when according to the math a perfect orbit would do the exact same for my broadsides as if i was stationary? Its a bit strange considering piloting your ship well is a big factor in the game and yet this is just... well broken.
orbit a NPC and shoot it while zoomed into your ship, you will see that as long as hes not going very fast and you are zooming round, while your guns dont seem to move at all yet your angular velocity on your overview will be horrendous! Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg CCP Hilmar CEO > "why am i sweating, why is this game doing this to me"
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NameWasTakenAlready
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.05.14 19:09:00 -
[34] - Quote
I like the number of posts that didn't understand the OP.
Let me explain simply. In real world physics you are correct OP. But this is eve and balance requires it. However I can explain WHY balance requires it. I want you to imagine the following. A rail or a arty fit Talos or Tornado, with a ceptor doing a zigzag approach. Can't hit right? Now imagine your proposed system. Now the Talos and Nado have istabs on them and set any incoming captors to keep at range 10000km. Their hulls begin to automatically "track assist" them, allowing them to rip the ceptors a new *******.
Now you see a sudden rise in power of high agility ships as the high agility ships track better. BUT WAIT, traditionally high agility ships already track better, as most of them are gallente or minmatar, which use high tracking blaster or tracking enhanced autos. Which leaves poor amarr completely broken and useless. And what about caldari hybrid ships? I mean the ferox just got its teeth back, and it would get its Wang cut off. It would neuter half the ships.
So yeah.
Also to the guy who asked why our ships don't need fuel, minmatar ships use their solar panels to replenish, and I think amarr burn antimatter or something. Tldr; we do, but its paid for by our space taxes. |
Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
98
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Posted - 2013.05.14 19:47:00 -
[35] - Quote
Because if it worked like this, the stationary vessel could just rotate their ship to keep the same side facing the orbiting vessel, and also wouldn't need to worry about tracking. |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
58
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Posted - 2013.05.14 23:00:00 -
[36] - Quote
Julius Rigel wrote:BoBoZoBo wrote:the ship is transversing and rotating to keep the guns in line at all times A conventional ship in a conventional fluid, such as a boat in water, a plane in air, a satellite in a vacuum, sure. But in jello-space, a spaceship is just a point with a radius, it has no directionality. Sure, the game tries its best to point the front of your UFO submarine's model in the direction of your movement vector, but the model has no other relation to the physics calculations, and it doesn't even do a particularly good job of pointing in the right direction. Try moving "backward" relative to your ship model some time, or establishing a tight, fast orbit around a small object, and if you have any frame of reference, something in the background, you'll see the ship model struggling to keep up with the vector.
Thanks for this. It shows exactly what I was trying to explain to someone last night about warp alignment, and why the attitude of the ship model has nothing to do with it. |
Vega Umbranox
Eternal Darkness. Fatal Ascension
5
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Posted - 2013.05.15 00:40:00 -
[37] - Quote
NameWasTakenAlready wrote:I like the number of posts that didn't understand the OP.
I cant tell if A) i explained terribly or B) alot of people got full throttle slammed into the ground as infants
[quote=Also to the guy who asked why our ships don't need fuel, minmatar ships use their solar panels to replenish, and I think amarr burn antimatter or something. Tldr; we do, but its paid for by our space taxes.[/quote]
I like to imagine amarr use slaves as their fuel source;)
and omfg above poster I spent a good hour and a half trying to convince the so called pro helpers in help channel THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS PASSIVE ALIGN they just.. could not grasp it!! |
Vega Umbranox
Eternal Darkness. Fatal Ascension
5
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Posted - 2013.05.15 00:49:00 -
[38] - Quote
Chris Winter wrote:Because if it worked like this, the stationary vessel could just rotate their ship to keep the same side facing the orbiting vessel, and also wouldn't need to worry about tracking.
if it happened it wouldnt be much different to any other strategy to lower transversal already employed by player. |
Britta Nolen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2013.05.15 04:03:00 -
[39] - Quote
way way too much text.
Question: Lets say me and my opponent are both orbiting the same object at the same distance and speed. The anchor we are orbiting is always right in between us. ex Me -----------------{Anchor}-----------------Opponent. What are the effects on tracking, radial velocity, & transversal velocity? |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
2764
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Posted - 2013.05.15 07:12:00 -
[40] - Quote
I did some field tests once with rifles and pistols and bringing them up to fast targets and hitting moving targets at various ranges.
You'd be surprised how hard it is to hit something fast and close with something heavy. Even for a gun.
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Vega Umbranox
Eternal Darkness. Fatal Ascension
6
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Posted - 2013.05.15 08:25:00 -
[41] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:I did some field tests once with rifles and pistols and bringing them up to fast targets and hitting moving targets at various ranges.
You'd be surprised how hard it is to hit something fast and close with something heavy. Even for a gun.
unless you were driving on a perfectly flat surface in a decent circle around it while shooting out the side i think u missed the point. pun not intended ;) |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
971
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Posted - 2013.05.15 09:54:00 -
[42] - Quote
well remember the guns do turn and so does the ship, as it is now, reducing the tracking necessary by flying your ship properly (think broadsides and pirate/naval sea ships) makes no difference to the tracking value needed.
and if i can spin my ship around as fast as something is orbiting me, why shouldn't i be able to hit it?
If a small target orbits something and im stationary some distance away, at some points in that orbit when the target is going directly towards or away from me, my guns will hit well in that window. this makes sense. Yet if i were to follow that targets orbit perfectly at the same range always keeping the same speed and direction, i actually make it worse for myself. Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg CCP Hilmar CEO > "why am i sweating, why is this game doing this to me"
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1745
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Posted - 2013.05.15 11:33:00 -
[43] - Quote
the short answer is that the server doesn't really track the ship orientation. It has the velocity vector but no "up" vector or anything since it isn't needed for any of the game logic (remember sidewards warping capitals?). All the submarine movement is client side - for the server you are a moving point, thats it.
and a point is not enough to calculate object relative tracking in 3d. The full 3d ship representation is required. eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
YuuKnow
Terra-Formers
800
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Posted - 2013.05.15 11:49:00 -
[44] - Quote
Eve would be more intersting if it had firing arcs like Homeworld2
yk |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
974
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Posted - 2013.05.15 12:12:00 -
[45] - Quote
We know that it does not work the logical way because of server stress, but that was years ago with the introduction of tracking (yes there was a time before tracking even existed)
But what about now, we have bigger better server with bigger better code, perhaps in the future we can have tracking that DOES take into account the position of the guns on the model and the tracking needed to stay on target? Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg CCP Hilmar CEO > "why am i sweating, why is this game doing this to me"
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