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Anthar Thebess
REPUBLIKA ORLA C0VEN
103
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Posted - 2013.05.16 10:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ok so why we have npc corps ? For newbies that need to learn how to play eve. I'm more than fine with this.
Still when i see 5yo alt flying vindicator, that never left this NPC corp - i think that something is wrong.
So my suggestion. Create new NPC corporations , one for each race. All characters older than 5 months will be moved to this new corporations.
Now the most important part. All this corps will be somewhat connected to race militia. Character sitting in this npc corp will be attacked by enemy npc militia in their systems, but not players in enemy militia.
This way - all those 50mil SP chars sitting in npc corps will be limited to 'friendly' space, or will have to join or create their own corporations.
As your Customers - we thank you - CCP. [1/17/2013 11:21:16 AM] seleene_ge: I don't even understand why CCP has a forum. No one at CCP reads it. <---- True Story. |
Velicitia
Nex Exercitus
1549
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Posted - 2013.05.16 11:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:Ok so why we have npc corps ? For newbies that need to learn how to play eve. I'm more than fine with this.
Still when i see 5yo alt flying vindicator, that never left this NPC corp - i think that something is wrong.
So my suggestion. Create new NPC corporations , one for each race. All characters older than 5 months will be moved to this new corporations.
Now the most important part. All this corps will be connected to race militia. Character sitting in this npc corp will be legal targets for the enemy militia
fixed it. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
hmskrecik
TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance
68
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Posted - 2013.05.16 11:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
As it's being mentioned countless times, EVE is a sandbox and anyone can choose what he wants to do.
As it's also being mentioned countless times, almost every activity in EVE is PVP.
Why do you want to force me to pew-pew? |
Velicitia
Nex Exercitus
1550
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Posted - 2013.05.16 11:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
hmskrecik wrote:Why do you want to force me to pew-pew?
You're already in a player-run corporation. The OP's idea is to essentially make it so you can't permanently hide in a noobcorp and mission/mine/etc with impunity*.
*or at least as much impunity as is provided by being in a noobcorp.
After reading it again, various other tweaks that can be applied:
1. all NPC corps that are not the noob-corp (e.g. Aliastra) are in the Militia. 2. all NPC corps that are not the Universities have a higher tax (to fund their militia stuff) One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
536
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Posted - 2013.05.16 12:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
why?? I guess you want to pay some ISK and shoot them, they dont want it. So why exactly should you be the one on receiving end? You can still suicide him. |
Onomerous
Shockwave Innovations Shockwave Sovereign Industries
83
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Posted - 2013.05.16 12:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
Wo0t for another thread to fix something which isn't broken!! Go Go fixers!!
Get over it. Some people don't want to play the way you do. Get over your desire for easy kills to boost your uber killboard as well. |
Drake Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
207
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Posted - 2013.05.16 12:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:why?? I guess you want to pay some ISK and shoot them, they dont want it. So why exactly should you be the one on receiving end? You can still suicide him.
If you want shooting anyone go to 0.0 or lowsec not hide in high sec, sitting in NPC corp forever is not abuse but intended use of NPC corps. Says who? Where has CCP specifically stated that Npc corps are for those special snowflakes that can't handle any pvp, this game is supposed to be a sand box correct? So why do certain people get to play outside the normal rules, if they can't play within the rules of the game that means it isn't for them plain and simple. If I didn't like the possibility of being, killed from orbit by someone I couldn't return the favor to in the same game, I wouldn't play Dust 514. Why should we have to suicide to even touch them when mechanics exist already to fight each other? "The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."-Vermaak Doe |
Rayzilla Zaraki
Tandokuno
30
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Posted - 2013.05.16 12:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
Anyone can play Eve the way they want - so long as it's the way this guy wants them to play.
/thread If nothing blew up, no one would buy your stuff. |
hmskrecik
TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance
69
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Posted - 2013.05.16 12:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
Velicitia wrote: You're already in a player-run corporation. The OP's idea is to essentially make it so you can't permanently hide in a noobcorp and mission/mine/etc with impunity*.
Yes, I am, and I even had my tiny piece of pew-pew action, but I still regard myself as carebear and I might as well be still in the noobcorp. If EVE is a sandbox, avoiding the fight should be valid choice. If you take away this option, you take away the sandbox.
And like Robert Caldera observed, the impunity is not absolute. |
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative Trans-Stellar Industries
255
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Posted - 2013.05.16 12:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
This topic gets brought up alot. Personally, I'm more for limiting basic abilities in NPC corps, but if players want to avoid war, they will find a way to avoid war. Including quitting.
The reason I feel very strongly about NPC corps is that, like it or not, running a good corporation is work. Player-made corporations largely get no respect unless they are Goon or Test, at which point, they are insulted and derived by half the playerbase for no real reason.
NPC corps, on the other hand, seem to be almost 'perfect' in what they offer that audience. It's hard for a player corp in hisec to compete with this. Why join a player corp with a 5% tax when you can be war-decced, awoxed, etc? For so many characters, there is simply no benefit in their hisec lifestyle of mission running and belt mining, industry and research, to warrant the move. They aren't running POS's, they've got more people to talk to in general chat then they can care for usually, and overall the experience of not being awox'd or war dec'd outweighs the lack of a corporate hangar, etc.
Player corporations in general suffer for this. It's essentially nigh-impossible to make a hisec, PvE corporation that is in any way better than the NPC corps.
I always propose a stiff rise in taxes to make it more obvious that the NPC player is, in fact, still paying for their security. This isn't to make their life worse. I have enough alts in NPC corps to be of that stance, too. But it is to transfer the sense of ownership, that security comes at a cost. This HAS to be conveyed better to new players.
As well, the concept of supporting your corporation, by upgrade corporate capabilities and options (even in hisec) should be considered. Adding in the ability of a corp to rent faction agents to provide better mission access to their corp mates? Or providing a public, managed stock market for investment to actually render a dividend and make corporate 'ownership' more valuable? Or how about providing more than POS (a buggy, costly, and altogether majorly useless system for a hisec occupant who can be patient a month for research) for corporation ownership, like deadspace rental?
Quite a few of these options can be found here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=235901&find=unread
But again, my point comes down to teaching players that avoiding war and living under that all-protective umbrella of the NPC corp should cost you significant amounts of your gross ... money you could otherwise spend on emergent gameplay which funds mercenaries and dedicated pvp players to fight for you instead.
The cost should equal out. If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality.-á That 'griefer/thief' is probably more sane than you are.-á How screwed up is that? |
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TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
208
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 12:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:Ok so why we have npc corps ? For newbies that need to learn how to play eve. I'm more than fine with this.
Still when i see 5yo alt flying vindicator, that never left this NPC corp - i think that something is wrong.
So my suggestion. Create new NPC corporations , one for each race. All characters older than 5 months will be moved to this new corporations.
Now the most important part. All this corps will be somewhat connected to race militia. Character sitting in this npc corp will be attacked by enemy npc militia in their systems, but not players in enemy militia.
This way - all those 50mil SP chars sitting in npc corps will be limited to 'friendly' space, or will have to join or create their own corporations.
Given the only real reason you want this is so that you can wardec and grief them.
Consider them sitting in the NPC corp them greifing you, and this post is your tears. ... |
Voith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 13:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
Show me on the doll where the bad NPC touched you. |
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
63
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 13:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
I'm honestly a little perplexed... what are the cons to just making your own corporation, other than the minimal cost of forming and the need to dissolve and reform if you get wardecced? Seems to me that those are outweighed by the NPC corp tax. Is the dissolving/reforming bit not that easy? |
1st-Garrentious WispBender
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
16
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Posted - 2013.05.16 13:33:00 -
[14] - Quote
Other people should play the game the way I want them too. True story. |
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative Trans-Stellar Industries
258
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 13:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
Zor'katar wrote:I'm honestly a little perplexed... what are the cons to just making your own corporation, other than the minimal cost of forming and the need to dissolve and reform if you get wardecced? Seems to me that those are outweighed by the NPC corp tax. Is the dissolving/reforming bit not that easy?
Cons of player made corporations include: - The ability for corp mates to attack you. - The ability to be war-dec'd. - The lack of a 500+ public chat channel to communicate to others in.
As I've found, most players in NPC corporations play mainly solo, mining and mission running in hisec. They don't like watching out for enemies all the time and feeling betrayed, and they absolutely hate the idea of being at the end of someone else's fun (it's not the war dec or pvp, generally, but the trash talking and insults that go with most hisec war-dec corps).
The tax is small change compared to the benefit. As well, even though a player is solo, doesn't mean they don't like having someone to talk to now and again. So while bringing other players into their corporation of alt evokes the risk of awox'ing (as well as the threat of war-dec's, to be honest), sitting in NPC corp chat does not.
If a NPC player wants to have a POS, they create a corp for a month, install one, and move back to NPC corp. Simple and easy. If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality.-á That 'griefer/thief' is probably more sane than you are.-á How screwed up is that? |
Velicitia
Nex Exercitus
1550
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 13:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
hmskrecik wrote:Velicitia wrote: You're already in a player-run corporation. The OP's idea is to essentially make it so you can't permanently hide in a noobcorp and mission/mine/etc with impunity*.
Yes, I am, and I even had my tiny piece of pew-pew action, but I still regard myself as carebear and I might as well be still in the noobcorp. If EVE is a sandbox, avoiding the fight should be valid choice. If you take away this option, you take away the sandbox. And like Robert Caldera observed, the impunity is not absolute.
hence the asterisk, and the caveat "well, as much impunity as is provided by being in a noobcorp". Pretty much though, people sitting that long in the noobcorps don't add anything to EVE ... and in general seem to be the ones who whine loudest about "nerfing hisec". Essentially, these are the people who want to play eve in singleplayer mode...
I have nearly 21 million SP in industry on this character (1 or 2 skills need finishing to L5). I prefer the drone of lasers to the earth-shattering kaboom of artillery. Even though I now fly with a "PVP Corp", I still focus my efforts in the support roles (logi/hero tackle/etc). The thing is, even though I myself may still be a "carebear", I can fully recognize the need for all walks in New Eden -- or at least those that want to play EVE in "Multiplayer" mode.
One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
536
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 13:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
Drake Doe wrote:Says who? Where has CCP specifically stated that Npc corps are for those special snowflakes that can't handle any pvp, this game is supposed to be a sand box correct? says CCP by acting. There arent any limits how long you can stay in NPC corporation, nor does CCP state any limit explicitely.
Drake Doe wrote:if they can't play within the rules of the game that means it isn't for them plain and simple. they DO play by rules absolutely fine, rules say if you're in NPC corp you cant be wardecced, so they enjoy this rule and never leave NPC corp.
Drake Doe wrote:Why should we have to suicide to even touch them when mechanics exist already to fight each other? the mechanics to fight you exist already in 0.0, why do I need to wardec you and pay money first prior shooting in high sec? what a bullsh*t!""! And on top, you can even evade my war by leaving corp. CCPPPPPPP FIX THISSSSSSSSSSSS
Ruze wrote:This topic gets brought up alot. Personally, I'm more for limiting basic abilities in NPC corps, but if players want to avoid war, they will find a way to avoid war. Including quitting. this |
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
63
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 13:44:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ruze wrote:Cons of player made corporations include: - The ability for corp mates to attack you. - The ability to be war-dec'd. - The lack of a 500+ public chat channel to communicate to others in. Those are the disadvantages of joining someone else's corp, but what about just making your own 1-man corp? Is there more to shedding wardecs than just dissolving the corp and making a new one (at far less cost than the wardec)? |
StoneCold
Somali Coast Guard BootCamp
179
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 13:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
While you-¦re at it:
Leaving a player-corp while at war should either leave the leaver be viable target as long as the war goes or shouldn-¦t be possible. My true stories |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
536
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 13:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
Zor'katar wrote: Edit: Oh, do you get a big chat channel in NPC corps? I guess that's what you were referring to. I guess that's valid, though there's always local for socializing.
but WHY should they do this? For dissolving it and creating a new one when wardecced by some fool?? Thats work, unneccessary work they simply dont do because they doesnt benefit from it. |
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Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
63
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 14:01:00 -
[21] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:but WHY should they do this? For dissolving it and creating a new one when wardecced by some fool?? Thats work, unneccessary work they simply dont do because they dont have any good from it. To avoid the NPC corp tax. I would think that occasionally having to reform your 1-man corp would be a very minor inconvenience compared to having a non-negligible portion of your income permanently go poof. |
Drake Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
207
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 14:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Drake Doe wrote:Says who? Where has CCP specifically stated that Npc corps are for those special snowflakes that can't handle any pvp, this game is supposed to be a sand box correct? says CCP by acting. There arent any limits how long you can stay in NPC corporation, nor does CCP state any limit explicitely. Drake Doe wrote:if they can't play within the rules of the game that means it isn't for them plain and simple. they DO play by rules absolutely fine, rules say if you're in NPC corp you cant be wardecced, so they enjoy this rule and never leave NPC corp. Drake Doe wrote:Why should we have to suicide to even touch them when mechanics exist already to fight each other? the mechanics to fight you exist already in 0.0, why do I need to wardec you and pay money first prior shooting in high sec? what a bullsh*t!""! And on top, you can even evade my war by leaving corp. CCPPPPPPP FIX THISSSSSSSSSSSS Juat because it hasn't been changed yet doesn't mean CCP wants to keep it, ever heard of off grid boosting? And why should they get a free ride when everyone else has to risk their ship? No words can describe your idiotic rant in the third post. "The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."-Vermaak Doe |
hmskrecik
TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance
69
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 14:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
Velicitia wrote: I can fully recognize the need for all walks in New Eden -- or at least those that want to play EVE in "Multiplayer" mode.
Fair enough. But why shoving this "multiplayer" down everyone else's throats? There is lowsec/WH where cooperation is strongly recommended. There is null where solo is not an option. This leaves hisec as an enclave, admittedly quite spacious, where single player mode of a sort is possible. What problem do you have with that?
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Miss Altiana
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.05.16 17:43:00 -
[24] - Quote
Drake Doe wrote:Robert Caldera wrote:Drake Doe wrote:Says who? Where has CCP specifically stated that Npc corps are for those special snowflakes that can't handle any pvp, this game is supposed to be a sand box correct? says CCP by acting. There arent any limits how long you can stay in NPC corporation, nor does CCP state any limit explicitely. Drake Doe wrote:if they can't play within the rules of the game that means it isn't for them plain and simple. they DO play by rules absolutely fine, rules say if you're in NPC corp you cant be wardecced, so they enjoy this rule and never leave NPC corp. Drake Doe wrote:Why should we have to suicide to even touch them when mechanics exist already to fight each other? the mechanics to fight you exist already in 0.0, why do I need to wardec you and pay money first prior shooting in high sec? what a bullsh*t!""! And on top, you can even evade my war by leaving corp. CCPPPPPPP FIX THISSSSSSSSSSSS Juat because it hasn't been changed yet doesn't mean CCP wants to keep it, ever heard of off grid boosting? And why should they get a free ride when everyone else has to risk their ship? No words can describe your idiotic rant in the third post.
Greetings,
Please forgive the lateness of this response.
There are no rules or restrictions in place that would prevent a character from staying in an NPC corp forever. If you feel more comfortable in an NPC corp, that is perfectly fine.
To clarify, there is nothing wrong with staying in the NPC corp and there is no action that Customer Support would ever take against a player who chooses to do so.
If you have any other issues or questions, please feel free to contact Customer Support further.
Best regards, GM Prometheus CCP Customer Support | EVE Online | DUST 514
Rather then inventing something that YOU want, i asked |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
536
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 17:54:00 -
[25] - Quote
you know quoting GM correspondence is prohibited by forum rules. you better remove relevant parts quick. |
Xavier Thorm
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
90
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 18:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
Miss Altiana wrote:There are no rules or restrictions in place that would prevent a character from staying in an NPC corp forever. If you feel more comfortable in an NPC corp, that is perfectly fine.
To clarify, there is nothing wrong with staying in the NPC corp
Rather then inventing something that YOU want, i asked
1): Right, that's what a lot of people want to see changed. Many people, including myself, consider it to be an abuse of the game that you can escape the repercussions of many actions by hiding out in an NPC corp. Personally I've always wanted a player to be able to belong to no corp, and have that be the default standing instead of going back to NPC corps, but I think the OP's suggesting is just as good if not better.
2): That is your opinion, and I do not agree with it. I think you will find that you are in the minority in holding that opinion, not that that makes you wrong, but I think it's worth considering.
3): I have no idea what you last sentence was supposed to mean.
As a general response to everyone saying that people advocating moving people are "trying to force them to x" well... yes I suppose that to an extent we are. We're trying to force them to participate in the game. NPC corps have restrictions on interacting them which exist for no other entities in EVE, and those restrictions are clearly and openly meant to protect new players. I do not think it is reasonable for seasoned players to be afforded the same protection. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
119
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 18:18:00 -
[27] - Quote
Why did I make a player corp? I wanted a POS. I wanted my own colors. I wanted to be something other than part of an enormous group. I didn't want to operate under the arbitrary unwritten "rules" set by others. Still, I spent plenty of time in CAS and I don't regret it. In fact, I have an alt that's specifically in CAS and will remain there just so I can stay in touch.
As a CAS alumni, I can say:
To hell with all haters. Player corps aren't the glorious shining beacons of multiplayer emergence that they're so touted to be.
If you're smart enough to join CAS during your character creation, you get an amazing multiplayer experience. Maybe other NPC corps are solo-oriented, I haven't been in any of them to find out. Center for Advanced Studies operates as a very large, fully-functional corp minus the specific perks (and god-awful nightmare headaches) that are reserved for player corporations. They have their own mining division under CAS Mining Alliance. They have a base of nullsec operations in Syndicate under CAS Combat Guild, who conducts monthly or biweekly roams all throughout Syndicate. They have alts in player corps in order to have things like research POSes, but their mains remain in CAS. CAS isn't quite everything it used to be years and years ago, but it's still one of the best - if not the best - newbie corporations in the game.
Why do people stay there in CAS, even though they could clearly operate a successful player corp and even though most of their "safety" is null and void by living in Syndicate? Because they don't want to leave their friends of 3, 5, 7, sometimes 10 years. Because there's nothing that being in a player-operated corp can offer that they don't already have via some other means. Because someone's got to teach the newbies, and do it correctly. Because despite the limitations, they're happy where they are. Because this is EVE, and nobody in EVE has the right to tell you what corp you're going to be in or how you're going to play the game.
This is EVE. You don't get to dictate how someone else builds their sandcastle. Now stop posting and biomass yourself. |
Rented
Hunter Heavy Industries
94
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 18:39:00 -
[28] - Quote
TheSkeptic wrote: Given the only real reason you want this is so that you can wardec and grief them.
Consider them sitting in the NPC corp them greifing you, and this post is your tears.
Epic truth. |
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
63
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 18:39:00 -
[29] - Quote
Xavier Thorm wrote:As a general response to everyone saying that people advocating moving people are "trying to force them to x" well... yes I suppose that to an extent we are. We're trying to force them to participate in the game. NPC corps have restrictions on interacting them which exist for no other entities in EVE, and those restrictions are clearly and openly meant to protect new players. I do not think it is reasonable for seasoned players to be afforded the same protection. They are participating in the game, just not in the way you want. But so what? What harm does their existence do to you or anyone else? Some people simply aren't interested in PvP. If you close off NPC corps to them, they'll just form their own solo corps and hop around when wardecced. If you close all the loopholes so that there's no way for them to mind their own business, they'll just find another game to play. How is that helpful?
Convince me that people who just want to mind their own business and blast some red crosses are ruining the game for anyone, and I'll campaign with you. I just don't see it. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
152
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 18:49:00 -
[30] - Quote
Xavier Thorm wrote: 2): That is your opinion, and I do not agree with it. I think you will find that you are in the minority in holding that opinion, not that that makes you wrong, but I think it's worth considering.
And that is your opinion, not that it makes you wrong, but it is worth considering. Seriously, is that really what you consider a solid argument?
Quote: As a general response to everyone saying that people advocating moving people are "trying to force them to x" well... yes I suppose that to an extent we are. We're trying to force them to participate in the game. NPC corps have restrictions on interacting them which exist for no other entities in EVE, and those restrictions are clearly and openly meant to protect new players. I do not think it is reasonable for seasoned players to be afforded the same protection.
They are participating, just in a way different than you prefer. And the restrictions you are talking about are minimal. So you can't war dec them. That is about it. BFD. Even if you could war dec them there is absolutely nothing that ensures you'll get to interact with them that way. They can simply not log in until you drop the dec. They can log in and spin in station. They could log in and if local is clear undock and safe up in a cloaky. The last one giving them some degree of pleasure knowing you came into system looking for them and left disappointed.
The poster who wrote:
Quote:Anyone can play Eve the way they want - so long as it's the way this guy wants them to play.
Pretty much sums it up. |
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