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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
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Eshtir
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Posted - 2005.10.17 14:29:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Jasmine Constantine
Note for the mods: could we have this thread cleaned of OOC material please? I can't see any valid reason for an alt to be posting about his real life experience with software vendors in an IC press release on an IC forum.
(buddrows comment also has some non IC stuff that could do with snipping truth to tell)
Thanks in advance.
Greetings Citizen,
I have recieved your request, however, next time send your request to our secure frequency at [email protected] please.
Thank you!
-Eshtir
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Veskrashen
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Posted - 2005.10.17 14:31:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Kane Jacobs So who's gonna burn it down for you?
Oh, we'll be throwing a few matches in soon. We've been taking shots at RAZOR and IRON all week, and we've got some fun times planned for the near future.
You're more than welcome to come on up and join the fun!
Architect of Change |
pershphanie
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Posted - 2005.10.17 15:18:00 -
[63]
Iron 4tw! |
Kyoko Sakoda
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Posted - 2005.10.17 17:06:00 -
[64]
You know, I'm really depressed that I'm missing out on all the fun now ever since I joined Band of Brothers. I joined BoB because I wasn't seeing enough action after all the "ceasefires." Now I'm pretty much stuck down in and around Delve when this happens. I'd rather be side by side with JF fighting up North.
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Imran
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Posted - 2005.10.17 17:43:00 -
[65]
Down with tyranical regional claims!1! rahhhh
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Blacklight
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Posted - 2005.10.17 17:51:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Blacklight on 17/10/2005 23:19:34 TBH much as I give them grief about it sometimes I quite like the fact that IRON try mix things up with their neighbours a bit. Although picking on JF when you have so many other clowns living nearby seems a little unnecessary and you had agreed to CF them and everyone knows they've always had us on positive so you are going back on your own agreement.
Eve Blacklight Style
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Karmae
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Posted - 2005.10.17 18:46:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Veskrashen Oh, we'll be throwing a few matches in soon. We've been taking shots at RAZOR and IRON all week, and we've got some fun times planned for the near future.
JF don't appear able to achieve much by themselves...*snip* They'll have to rally the troops to fight the evil menace of the north!
Originally by: Veskrashen
You're more than welcome to come on up and join the fun!
(see above)
Anyone else experiencing deja vu?
Please do not link to external kill records. They make a mess and cause tempers to flare, and we'd rather not have to forcibly cool people down. See this link for a reminder. -Omniscience ==================== There is 10 types of people in this world... Those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
Kalast Raven
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Posted - 2005.10.17 19:06:00 -
[68]
Karmae, our training against your guys has been a blast and the lessons learned well worth the cost.
------- K. Raven
Director, Agent of Destruction |
Veskrashen
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Posted - 2005.10.17 19:07:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Karmae JF don't appear able to achieve much by themselves... They'll have to rally the troops to fight the evil menace of the north!
Ah, yes. We're at the "JF suck in PvP" point of the argument, right? Oh, removed your flameworthy killboard link - you know better than that.
Yes. JF totally sucks in PvP. As is absolutely apparent from the killmails that your board tracks, we only undock in shuttles, never take on bigger odds, and never, ever fly BSes. And you'll never see us shooting at anything more threatening than a hauler. You don't even have to bother insuring your ships or losing them to our pilots, at all, cuz we suck.
Because the only thing that matters is the ship you fly and the ships you kill, right? Words mean nothing, friendships mean nothing. All this chatter on the forums? Pointless and irrelevant. Never changes anyone's mind, never hurts anyone's image. Never causes the start of massive, cluster changing events like the Great Northern War.
Nope. Not at all.
Sleep well, dearie.
Architect of Change |
Imran
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Posted - 2005.10.17 19:26:00 -
[70]
freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedoommmmmmmmmmmmmm
*looks for his hailberg*
(think i spelled that wrong)
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Karmae
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Posted - 2005.10.17 19:38:00 -
[71]
Heh, flameworthy? I think not, and sincerely not intended to be such. It is a factual indication that despite the big talk on the forums, JF as a corp is fundamentally a weak player in terms of actually achieving much in 0.0 space first hand.
Hence my comment that you'll be having to draft in corps to fight your crusade on your behalf. Only I hope that corps considering such action look at the Jerichos previous 'Successes' in shooting the standing-enclosurist-territorialistic-mineral-cartel-dictatorship-snakes in the head usually works out badly for anyone associated with you. Unfortunately many people aren't so adept at weaseling into ceasefires with all around as JF are once the temperature rises.
Lead from the front on this crusade, maybe you'll get some respect. Your gonna have to start fighting instead of just talking if you are to maintain some form of credibility. ==================== There is 10 types of people in this world... Those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
Reiisha
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Posted - 2005.10.17 19:52:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Karmae Heh, flameworthy? I think not, and sincerely not intended to be such. It is a factual indication that despite the big talk on the forums, JF as a corp is fundamentally a weak player in terms of actually achieving much in 0.0 space first hand.
Hence my comment that you'll be having to draft in corps to fight your crusade on your behalf. Only I hope that corps considering such action look at the Jerichos previous 'Successes' in shooting the standing-enclosurist-territorialistic-mineral-cartel-dictatorship-snakes in the head usually works out badly for anyone associated with you. Unfortunately many people aren't so adept at weaseling into ceasefires with all around as JF are once the temperature rises.
Lead from the front on this crusade, maybe you'll get some respect. Your gonna have to start fighting instead of just talking if you are to maintain some form of credibility.
Derailing a thread is always nice, isn't it?
Nice one to try and cover up IRON's hypocricy, and your own now aswell....... JF's ability to fight has nothing to do at all with the issue at hand.
Save Darwinia! |
Karmae
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Posted - 2005.10.17 19:55:00 -
[73]
Hardly derailing a thread when we have already been cited as target practice :P
Don't be so touchy! ==================== There is 10 types of people in this world... Those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
Veskrashen
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Posted - 2005.10.17 20:01:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Karmae Heh, flameworthy? I think not, and sincerely not intended to be such. It is a factual indication that despite the big talk on the forums, JF as a corp is fundamentally a weak player in terms of actually achieving much in 0.0 space first hand.
JF has never argued that we are a powerhouse fleet of death waltzing through space spreading fear throughout the northern alliances. We tend to small unit actions, and tend to avoid blobbage. We also don't tend to keep track of our kills and losses on any sort of organized basis.
We fight for ideals, for hearts and minds. And we do it well.
Quote: Only I hope that corps considering such action look at the Jerichos previous 'Successes' in shooting the standing-enclosurist-territorialistic-mineral-cartel-dictatorship-snakes in the head usually works out badly for anyone associated with you.
Yup. All of our former allies are crushed carebear corporations living in empire, destitute and alone. Why, RKK, BNC, ATUK - noone remembers ineffective pansies like THAT anymore.
Quote: Lead from the front on this crusade, maybe you'll get some respect. Your gonna have to start fighting instead of just talking if you are to maintain some form of credibility.
Sigh.
Karmae, we fly, we fight, we win, we lose. We don't ask people to fight for us. We simply state here why we fight, who we fight, and when. We tell people why we think it's a bad idea for an alliance to conduct their affairs this way, why things could be better if they tried a different tack. We talk to people when they ask, help them if they're gunning for the same people as us. Nothing more.
The fact that other corporations are more enthusiastic about putting big honking antimatter rounds into you, and have more people and time to do it with, does not mean that we don't fight at all. You know this, you always have. The fact that you are unable to stand on your own to feet on this field of battle does not mean it is less important.
Architect of Change |
Veskrashen
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Posted - 2005.10.17 20:03:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Karmae Hardly derailing a thread when we have already been cited as target practice :P
Don't be so touchy!
It is derailment when your feud with us was not part of this announcement, now isn't it? I'd be more than happy to continue this little bit of banter on your own announcement thread if you like, should you care to stop trolling this one. Or maybe that thread on your own forums, you know - the one you walked away from as well?
Architect of Change |
Karmae
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Posted - 2005.10.17 20:17:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Veskrashen It is derailment when your feud with us was not part of this announcement, now isn't it?
RAZOR was something you (Veskrashen) felt the need to refer to within the context of this discussion, and as such I felt compelled to reply. Simple.
Evidently not derailment then
==================== There is 10 types of people in this world... Those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
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Eshtir
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Posted - 2005.10.17 20:22:00 -
[77]
For your clarification:
Quote: The posting of killmails or use of killboard links will be considered as trolling or off-topic, and subject to removal or warning.
There will be no discussion allowed of privately run killboard issues/accuracies taking place in this forum. It has been proven that such discussions inevitably invite ill-spirited comments and off-topic issues. It is recommended that you contact the administrator of the private killboard wherein an error is perceived.
Thanks!
I hope the point is clear now i also updated the A Freiendly Reminder thread. Also stay "In Character". Out of character posts will be snipped out or deleted.
-Eshtir
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Veskrashen
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Posted - 2005.10.17 20:23:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Karmae RAZOR was something you (Veskrashen) felt the need to refer to within the context of this discussion, and as such I felt compelled to reply. Simple.
Evidently not derailment then
Ah, so I did. I said we were shooting you. Which, evidently, is correct according to your records. Thank you for providing concrete evidence that we do as we say we will do. It always warms my heart to see even our enemies acknowledge our reputation for honesty.
How's that forcing us out of Pure Blind an destroying our corporation thing going, anyway?
Architect of Change |
Karmae
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Posted - 2005.10.17 20:45:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Veskrashen
How's that forcing us out of Pure Blind an destroying our corporation thing going, anyway?
Well it's nice to see you've changed your mind on our input to this thread, and indeed you appear to be attempting to derail your own thread, but what the heck I'll humour you.
Assuming it's a goad: The killboard says it all really, but tbh your corp isn't that much of a priority most of the time. There is several ASCN corps recently to be seen in Pure Blind that have been able to get outside of docking range often enough to merit interception and attack. Thanks for asking.
Assuming it's good humour: Yes indeed you have been shooting us, although apparently the sheer weight of ammunition has mostly been heading towards [JERIC] ships where they are found.
Now back to the topic of the thread...
Go IRON!!! ==================== There is 10 types of people in this world... Those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
Chris Henry
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Posted - 2005.10.17 21:28:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Chris Henry on 17/10/2005 21:29:31
Originally by: Czardas It probably isn't just you, but you'd be fired from my negotiating team for being an asshat. Think JF got anything positive out of this apart from fanboys?
They're still word-twisting snakes. I won't deal with anyone whose principal negotiating position is trying to tell me what my principles are.
[CZ]
OOC Removed - Eshtir
Now here's me hoping to get a nice freindly reply without being called some childish name.
I don't believe JF have ever told you what to believe and if you can't deal with and respond to a reasonable argument based on idealogical principals and politics then I would imagine you need to stop reading GalNet.
Surely they cannot be word twisting snakes whilst laying their principals out on the table 100%? I have never EVER caught a JF member going back on his/her word/promise/statement and for this I respect them.
Now I'm gonna stop posting before JF actually think I like them and Cochise kicks my ass for saying good things about teh ebil terrorists
Go JF. --------------- (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Kill the Bunny. |
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Echo147
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Posted - 2005.10.17 23:45:00 -
[81]
More targets \o/
No wait, we were shooting you before... and this announcement is for?
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Czardas
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Posted - 2005.10.18 00:56:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Chris Henry I don't believe JF have ever told you what to believe and if you can't deal with and respond to a reasonable argument based on idealogical principals and politics then I would imagine you need to stop reading GalNet.
Surely they cannot be word twisting snakes whilst laying their principals out on the table 100%? I have never EVER caught a JF member going back on his/her word/promise/statement and for this I respect them.
Of course they can. That is a classic symptom of the philosophically militant ideologue. It's not something I respect, though - such abstract castle-building achieves nothing, and I respect results, not position papers.
Here's a straightforward example of JF wordplay:
Originally by: JF JF> We're trying to see if your policy is uniform or biased, you make quite a big thing about the automatic -10 for anyone + standings to BOB, all we're pointing out is that your rules don't seem to be followed uniformly.
What's going on here? The statement is "We think your principles are unsound. Here's our interpretation of your own position. If you don't like it, we're going public!"
It's weaselly, and I don't like it.
I dislike even more anyone who publicly discloses diplomatic negotiations - it means you can never privately discuss hypotheticals or tentative agreements without the risk of publication.
On the other hand I don't have a specific problem with the overall sense of this JF announcement, which can be summarised as "OMGWTF WE DON'T WANNA BE TARGETS". That's a perfectly reasonable thing to say. It just shouldn't take a philosophy treatise to say it.
[CZ]
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Demarcus
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Posted - 2005.10.18 01:44:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda You know, I'm really depressed that I'm missing out on all the fun now ever since I joined Band of Brothers. I joined BoB because I wasn't seeing enough action after all the "ceasefires." Now I'm pretty much stuck down in and around Delve when this happens. I'd rather be side by side with JF fighting up North.
Who is forcing you to stay there? Better let someone in JF know so they can go fight the oppresion. ------------------------------------- You are all worthless, and weak.
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Herko Kerghans
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Posted - 2005.10.18 02:03:00 -
[84]
*scratches head*
Lemme see, Czardas... our original post basically says that every time we make a non-agression pact with IRON, it gets broken by IRON (a claim that, if you read this thread carefully, no IRON diplomat has denied as of yet; nobody from IRON has said "that is not true, JF shot IRON first")
We end the original post by saying:
Originally by: The Cosmopolite This time there will be no relenting in the struggle. We understand now that for the North to be free it must be burned down and made ash to nourish the hope of true freedom.
I know that less-than-300-char-long messages are not our strenght (althouhg RAZOR set upon themselves to teach us about the subject), but how on EVE could you translate our message to:
Originally by: Czardas ...this JF announcement, which can be summarised as "OMGWTF WE DON'T WANNA BE TARGETS".
is well beyond me.
As you know we in JF are very interested in wordplay... care to explain how you managed the above one?
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The Fox, the Rock, and the Buzzard |
Jasmine Constantine
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Posted - 2005.10.18 02:17:00 -
[85]
I think some people are failing to read the press release. The reason the diplomat exchange was made public (albeit with the names occluded to protect their blushes) was that our corporation has quite literally had enough of IRON and their double dealing treachery. We've had enough of ceasefire's that last only until the IRON directors have a strop, we've had enough of IRON vassals flip-flopping their standings every 3 weeks, we've had enough of "accidents", weak justifications and bullying. We've certainly had enough of talking nicely to people that really don't have clue about diplomacy or the apparently tricky concept of "actually keeping your word" in diplomatic negotiations.
We never wanted to be cosy friends with IRON, we never bought into their territorialism or their standings regime. We offered them ceasefire simply because Buddrow annouced he wanted to turn over a new leaf in this public announcement and Jericho Fraction is the kind of corporation to grant second chances and hold out the hand of truce.
Now of course, almost everything Buddrow said in that announcement has proved false. Compare and contrast these statements for example:
Quote: "We will not be adopting a NBSI policy, so if you donĘt shoot us, we wonĘt shoot you." - Buddrow (2005.09.08 19:57:00)
And
Quote: "we kill everyone But NBSI, G, Razor, The Rock, PA - although there has been a ton of **** going around about PA shoot us and our residents and us shooting them, Dek residents" - Buddrow (2005.10.17 01:15:00 )
Five weeks on and IRON have turned 180 and flip-flopped their entire foreign policy and turned a "no shoot neutrals" ROE into a "not blue shoot it" ROE.
You tell me how anyone is supposed to trust an organisation that does this sort of U-turn routinely and is completely unaccountable for its given word or public statements?
(Would any pro-IRON poster to this topic like to explain how IRON justify posting one policy and practising the exact opposite?)
So, (for anyone who is confused) the point of this thread in general is to say "we're never intending to have diplomatic contact with IRON alliance again and we hope they die a richly deserved death"
The reason for the chatlog and the link to Buddrow's previous press release for IRON (that the chatlog completely contradicts) is to show proof that IRON is a deceitful regime that cannot be relied upon to keep its word. We hope this proof will persuade other corporations in IRON's sphere of influence to abandon their false banner. We hope it will show neutral corporations they cannot trust IRON's word, and we hope it will encourage people with the urge to fight oppression to come and join us in fighting IRON and their lackeys in Pureblind and the North. Yes Jericho Fraction is a small corporation. Yes we have barely a twentieth of the apparent strength of IRON (let alone Razor+Rock+whatever allies IRON brings to blob). Yes we are the underdogs and yes its likely we'll never manage a decisive military victory on our own.
All that is very true. But it doesn't disprove a single argument made in this press release and it doesn't improve the IRON reputation one degree. If you believe might and numbers makes right and you don't care about the value of personal reputation and keeping your word with consistant leadership and agreements then by all means stand with IRON and applaud their management style.
If on the other hand you do believe that honour and honesty and personal faith means something, well, its likely you'll see the point made from the opening posts of this press release and we'll have done a service in illustrating to the star cluster exactly what calibre of men rule space in Deklein.
And thats the whole deal. War is more than clicking weapons icons on your virtual targ. Betray JF and discover what else is involved.
_________________
Shoot Tyrants - join Jericho Fraction! |
McDan
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Posted - 2005.10.18 05:29:00 -
[86]
Jericho Fraction have been witness to the treachery of the northern alliances on more than just a few occasions. I understand that the names of the alliances up there may have changed a few times, however, it is clear to see that they are the same people who have been forced out before and for very similar reasons.
I am surprised that you even attempt to Interject any degree of reason in your talks with them. The only time IRON and the rest will abide to a compromise is when they have no other choice. Their time claiming territory is coming to an end; many of them will regret ever having imposed their policies on others.
Make a point of noting every decision they make, it will not take long to come to the conclusion that they are just kids playing at politics. Very few of them command any degree of respect.
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McDan
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Posted - 2005.10.18 14:38:00 -
[87]
I understand completely, I made that post after having read through page upon page of hypocrisy. I usually like to have an objective as is humanly possible outlook, but sometimes itĘs just too hard. I apologize if it seemed as if I was inciting flame, it was not my intention.
It may not count for much but I sympathize with your cause, your resolve obviously cannot be shattered. Given a few weeks I am sure a can help with more than just moral support. Keep up the fight Jericho, you guys are a great asset to the EVE community.
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Chris Henry
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Posted - 2005.10.18 15:28:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Inbred Edited by: Inbred on 18/10/2005 09:16:27
Originally by: Chris Henry I believe what theyre actually trying to do is inform everyone that they are going to shoot IRON lots. I understood that as soon as I read the first eloquently written post, and I am frankly worried that so many didn't.
hardly surprising you'd say that, wasn't Xelas alliance forcefully removed from the north for being Bob supporters too?
can you say 'biased'?
and no, their intention wasn't 'inform everyone that they are going to shoot IRON lots'. read the first post again, its a blatent attempt to completely discredit them in front of everyone to try and gain some kind of moral victory.
fact is people are smarter than that but 10 out of 10 for effort.
Mr. Alt,
No, we left because the PA became hostile after they found out we weren't -10 to BoB. Im not sure what this has to do with BoB anyway - JF a(not BoB) are going to shoot IRON (not BoB).
I think the second part of your reply is just a matter of opinion - I think that first post reads 'We're (JF, not BoB) going to shoot IRON (not BoB) lots. This is because they are very nasty people, here is an example. Just to clarify We're going to shoot them lots!'.
Imo this makes for quite a good press release - Statement, reason, example to back up reason and clarification of statement. Nice and clear.
Chris (a real character) --------------- (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Kill the Bunny. |
Veskrashen
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Posted - 2005.10.18 15:37:00 -
[89]
Originally by: McDan I understand completely, I made that post after having read through page upon page of hypocrisy. I usually like to have an objective as is humanly possible outlook, but sometimes itĘs just too hard. I apologize if it seemed as if I was inciting flame, it was not my intention.
No, not at all. I was more expanding upon the issue and explaining why we continued to attempt diplomatic means, even after a lot of people would have stopped. But, even for us, there comes a time when we stop banging our heads against the wall and start shooting people instead.
Feel free to contact myself or any of the other Jericho Fraction driectors, or stop by our public forums. We'd be glad to help you and your corporation make the move up north as easy as possible.
Architect of Change |
Imran
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Posted - 2005.10.18 16:14:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Imran on 18/10/2005 16:14:53
Originally by: Darko1107 Im the 1 that made the agreement to nap each other in the first place, then joined bob a day later . Oh how funny things turn out.
nooblar.
edit:
<3^^
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