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Altaen
Calamitous-Intent
56
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Posted - 2013.05.17 15:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is a request for clarification, combined with a suggestion.
I am now encountering Orbital Bombardment ops in Molden Heath, with the dawn of Planetary Conquest battles. I have not been involved with FW since before DUST had an impact there, so this post is based on my very first handful of encounters with ships engaged in planetary bombardment.
The majority of the ships I have encountered so far have been Destroyers, which I expected. What I didn't expect was for the majority of those destroyers to have both a cloak and warp core stabilizers fit.
It seems their method is to cloak up on grid with the district, decloak only as needed to perform bombardment, and then to recloak.
This isn't much of a major problem, as the delay before they can recloak is plenty sufficient to kill them (evidenced by the fact that I killed them and discovered their fits~), but what is a bit bothersome is that they aren't suffering the same penalties as a ship fit for ship versus ship combat would by fitting a cloak and stabs.
It seems there is absolutely no accounting for decloak lock delay from the cloak or scan resolution penalties from the warp core stabs as it regards their ability to deliver a planetary strike. I suggest that this should not be the case.
Fortunately, there were quite a number of bombardment gangs out there that brought small defense gangs (usually 2 BCs and a Recon to defend 2-3 destroyers, but in the case of E-UNI, a 75 man blob) but I fear that once pilots start to catch on that they can cover more districts with less manpower by simply cloaking up with stabs, the in-space content creation of this awesome feature is going to die off considerably.
Is this working as intended? Should planetary bombardment ships be able to operate at their full unpenalized potential despite being cloaked and warp core stabilized? |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
137
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Posted - 2013.05.17 15:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Content does not mean "I get to bop a brother over the head". You can't win them all, and often in EVE you won or lost with the choices you made upon undocking.
It's never fails to amuse when I see EVE's culture of ambush predators go hungry due to the smarter tactics of their prey. |
Altaen
Calamitous-Intent
56
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Posted - 2013.05.17 15:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:Content does not mean "I get to bop a brother over the head". You can't win them all, and often in EVE you won or lost with the choices you made upon undocking.
It's never fails to amuse when I see EVE's culture of ambush predators go hungry due to the smarter tactics of their prey.
Make no mistake, no one is going hungry, and this isn't a complaint about smart tactics. This is a request for clarification regarding whether the very powerful abilities of fitting a cloak and having superior warp strength should have the same penalties for planetary bombardment as they do for ship versus ship combat.
Edited to add: this thread would not exist if the ships engaged in planetary bombardment had just as much delay in connecting to a district as they would have locking a ship after decloaking.
Simply put, cloaks make you effectively invincible and undetectable, in exchange you move slower and can't lock immediately after decloaking. Warp Core Stabs are a hard counter to warp disruptors. In exchange, your scan res goes to ****.
These same penalties should apply to Planetary Bombardment, that's all. It would not reduce how clever the tactic is, nor how effective it is. It will merely balance the power addition with appropriate drawbacks, same as they do for ship v ship combat. |
Pannax Ni
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
4
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Posted - 2013.05.17 16:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
A smart player would know that they have to be within 10km of the satelite, 2-3 guys orbiting at 8k should de-cloak anything there. Then fit 2 scrams, as most of the popular destroyers for this only have 3 lows.
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Altaen
Calamitous-Intent
56
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Posted - 2013.05.17 16:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
Pannax Ni wrote:A smart player would know that they have to be within 10km of the satelite, 2-3 guys orbiting at 8k should de-cloak anything there. Then fit 2 scrams, as most of the popular destroyers for this only have 3 lows.
That's not the problem. Anything with a sebo and artillery will kill them. It doesn't mean they should be discouraged from bringing a gang to defend them because they can bombard just as well with a cloak as without. |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2864
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Posted - 2013.05.17 16:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
There is currently a bit varied situation with the activation of modules after decloaking. You used to be able to engage a HIC bubble immediately after dropping cloak, but it was recently patched out. You can still launch a dictor probe right away. I'm not sure how smarties work, but ideally decloaking delay should probably cover all offensive modules.
Don't they need to target the planet?
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Altaen
Calamitous-Intent
57
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Posted - 2013.05.17 17:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
Roime wrote:There is currently a bit varied situation with the activation of modules after decloaking. You used to be able to engage a HIC bubble immediately after dropping cloak, but it was recently patched out. You can still launch a dictor probe right away. I'm not sure how smarties work, but ideally decloaking delay should probably cover all offensive modules.
Don't they need to target the planet?
They simply mouse over and click the district in order to connect and accept bombardment requests, there is no lock the same as ships lock other ships, but this would be a good way to fix this. If they made the district a lockable object with a battleship or even capital-sized signature radius I would consider this problem resolved 100% |
Altaen
Calamitous-Intent
57
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Posted - 2013.05.17 17:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Oh, and I don't want this to devolve into a whine thread. I am very, very happy about the Planetary Conquest feature. It has already created a ton of interesting content.
Creating more reasons for people to be in space in low-sec is a VERY good thing, and my fellow low-sec veterans and I are having an absolute blast dealing with the huge population increase in Molden Heath.
I only posted this because I see the feature having a huge potential for massive amounts of fun, but I fear a lack of drawbacks for bombarding from cloaked ships to decrease that potential. |
Marxzo Andoun
EVE University Ivy League
17
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Posted - 2013.05.17 17:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
Altaen wrote: Fortunately, there were quite a number of bombardment gangs out there that brought small defense gangs (usually 2 BCs and a Recon to defend 2-3 destroyers, but in the case of E-UNI, a 75 man blob) but I fear that once pilots start to catch on that they can cover more districts with less manpower by simply cloaking up with stabs, the in-space content creation of this awesome feature is going to die off considerably.
Is this working as intended? Should planetary bombardment ships be able to operate at their full unpenalized potential despite being cloaked and warp core stabilized?
70 man, actually XD And we only got a single bombardment request from our ground force
Yes, we also noticed a cloak on an opposing bomber's cata we popped.
There is at least the penalty of reduced bombardment effect. The only factor in determining effectiveness currently is the number of turrets used in the strike, so 1 must be sacrificed to fit a cloak. I'm not sure if this is a sufficient penalty given the ease of bombing it provides.
A bit if a side note, as most of us were twiddling our thumbs, someone mentioned how great it would be if ground force battles were broadcast on billboards - or potentially from the planetary interface to the district. Sure there out-of-game methods to achieve this, but it's a bigger hassle and the in-game version would give a much more of a connected feeling to our DUST counterparts.
In addition, it would be a distraction to give incoming gankers an opportunity to strike. Fun all around /end hijack |
Nicholas Aideronnne
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.05.17 20:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
The end of the line is if CCP saw that as a possibility or not. If CCP overlooked the ffects when making it it would be considered a bug or glitch and be fixed, CCP doesn't care how 'unfair' it is. |
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