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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Gordon Esil
Strategic Tactics And Recon Academy Strategic Tactics And Recon Corporate Alliance
21
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Posted - 2013.05.23 12:38:00 -
[151] - Quote
I got my noob miner ready and an empty jump clone on standby!
Say when and where and I'll come with tackling procurer |
Treborr MintingtonJr
The Knights of Spamalot
4
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Posted - 2013.05.23 14:02:00 -
[152] - Quote
This idea reminds me of shooting fish in a barrel with a rocket launcher... |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
49
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Posted - 2013.05.23 16:07:00 -
[153] - Quote
Joxxy wrote:+1
I fully endorse this idea.
We should all go and invade 0.0.
With combat Iterons and Hulks of DOOM !
exactly!! venture of death incoming too! :DD OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
49
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Posted - 2013.05.23 16:10:00 -
[154] - Quote
Gordon Esil wrote:I got my noob miner ready and an empty jump clone on standby! Say when and where and I'll come with tackling procurer
thats what i want to hear! :DD already thought about a venture fleet as well, maybe we should do a run and mine infront of their bases :DD but we still need some more! I keep you posted! OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
280
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Posted - 2013.05.23 19:07:00 -
[155] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:we do this carebear style
Which means the first 2 weeks of the campaign will be dedicated to begging 95% of the Carebear Coalition how to download Teamspeak and get on it while logged in? Not today spaghetti. |
Totalrx
NA No Assholes
100
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Posted - 2013.05.23 19:20:00 -
[156] - Quote
OP has obviously never in his game life tried to build up and much less organize a fleet in high sec.
If he had, then he would not have started this thread. |
JamnOne
Jammin Corp
3
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Posted - 2013.05.23 19:21:00 -
[157] - Quote
This would have been a great idea if they didn't nerf the crap out of the Hulk. You could still have one mining laser going while attacking. |
E-2C Hawkeye
State War Academy Caldari State
195
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Posted - 2013.05.23 19:30:00 -
[158] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Harry Forever wrote:I say it's time for all carebears to gather all recources and invade that null sec space, clean out all gate campers, rats and whatever else we find... lets loot their ships destroy their bases, fight the biggest war ever in new eden
we do this carebear style in such an overwhelming force that nobody of us will be hurt, and out of all those wrecks we leave behind CCP can create a monument to honor our victorious play style
let me know who's in and we plan this biggest mobilisation in EVEs history The problem with this is that is requires the skill "ballsack" to be trained to at least one, most floks in high sec haven't gotten around to it yet.... What you
What you need is the skill plexiglassautomyGǪ.thatGÇÖs where a part of your stomach is replaced with plexi glass so like normal when you have your head up your rear end you can see where you are going. |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
18
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Posted - 2013.05.23 20:37:00 -
[159] - Quote
We will await patiently. I suggest skipping lowsec however, since the local pirates may just kill every single one of you before we can. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet? |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
49
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Posted - 2013.05.23 20:45:00 -
[160] - Quote
Totalrx wrote:OP has obviously never in his game life tried to build up and much less organize a fleet in high sec.
If he had, then he would not have started this thread.
did you see all this in your crystal ball right? OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
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Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
49
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Posted - 2013.05.23 20:48:00 -
[161] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:We will await patiently. I suggest skipping lowsec however, since the local pirates may just kill every single one of you before we can.
sorry i wanted to create something exciting and wake you up from your deep sleep OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Fernando MRuiz
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
66
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Posted - 2013.05.23 22:22:00 -
[162] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:Fernando MRuiz wrote:I'm still curious as to what a 'carebear style' invasion of nullsec would be like. I just keep picturing a bunch of exhumers trying to take out ganker ships with strip miners and their own explosions. not more will be needed, look at the star map man, no fights in null sec, i hardly believe they find the fire button when we arrive
Oh! Well in that case, can I suggest you start your nullsec invasion by pushing into Delve or Syndicate? Should be easy to gain a foothold there... "One must, in one's life, make a choice between boredom and suffering." - Mme. Germaine de Sta+½l |
Huang Mo
Tianxia Inc
7
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Posted - 2013.05.24 04:27:00 -
[163] - Quote
Shao Huang wrote: One of the common assertions is the game would not run without 'carebears'. Test that.
Interesting.
Sun Tzu says "So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss"
What do we know about our enemies ? We know that they are experienced PvP players, good at working together and with vast resources in manpower, ships, ammo, skills, logistics etc. However, they are notoriously bad at counting ISK, don't know how create a business plan, have never heard of market PvP, can't tell a vertical business from a horizontal, and have never used a ranged buy order
What do we know about ourselves ? We suck at PvP. Our ships suck at PvP. Our skills suck at PvP. But our biggest weakness is that we are hopelessly unorganized. Our strengths are that the almighty Concord is on our side, our understanding of the market, and our ability to run a business. Some also control vast resources in ISK, minerals, or products
Sun Tzu says "He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious"
We can't fight in no-sec, lets not waste time entertaining that idea, and instead focus on where we can fight: We can fight on the market and under the protection of Concord.
If we for a moment ignore our main weakness, lack of organization, we can dream of strangulating no-sec by denying them our business and thus force them into carebearing themselves. If we can somehow reach that point, we will win because the fight will be on our chosen battlefield: The Market.
The problem is the lack of organization. We cannot establish a trade embargo because competitors would come running to fill void. We cannot manipulate the market because everyone would underbid/overbid each other. Traders are often fiercely independent and competitive and don't like to be subject to some grand strategy. If they did, they would have fleeted up with the no-sec'ers a long time ago.
This leads us to the conclusion that to defeat no-sec we have to conqueror or at least neutralize high-sec. |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
914
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Posted - 2013.05.24 06:09:00 -
[164] - Quote
Huang Mo wrote:Sun Tzu quotes There's a lot wrong with your post but I will concentrate on just one point:
0.0 players are also empire players.
I am a 0.0 player - by which I mean I spend ~70% of my gametime in high-sec farming level 4 missions. But the other 30% during which I pvp in 0.0 are what I see as defining of my playstyle and that's why I'd violently refuse being labeled as a "carebear".
I have not just one but two characters for mission running, I have a Hulk pilot, I have a freighter, I have an Orca, I have 2 trade alts, ....
I do all the things high-sec carebears do and if you did observe any of my empire characters for a few hours you would probably come to the conclusion that I am a fairly typical carebear.
The distinguishing factor is not what I do but why I do it. A carebear does his carebaring for its own sake, I do it because I need ISK to fund my pvp activities.
And I am not untypical. A large share of the "carebears" you observe in high-sec - running missions, doing mining ops, freightering stuff around, playing market games, ... - are the alts of 0.0 players. We don't tend to talk much about these activities as we don't define ourselves through them (in contrast to "real" carebears) but we do them just like you.
We understand the markets, we know how to run a business, we have vast stocks of resources, and you don't have to force us into carebearing as we do it already (and do it in high-sec as the risk vs reward balance for carebearing in 0.0 is just bad).
I'm certain there is some fancy Sun Tzu quote about the dangers of thinking you understand something when in fact you do not have a clue. Please look it up and apply it to yourself, Thanks. TEST alt - don't trust. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7979
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Posted - 2013.05.24 06:17:00 -
[165] - Quote
Huang Mo wrote:However, they are notoriously bad at counting ISK, don't know how create a business plan, have never heard of market PvP, can't tell a vertical business from a horizontal, and have never used a ranged buy order
let me make assertions about a group of players that i don't know a thing about based on my preconceived notions while disregarding the fact that they manage to buy ships like titans (they don't know how to make isk!) mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7979
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Posted - 2013.05.24 06:21:00 -
[166] - Quote
industrialists who aspire to buy t2 bpos which optimistically take at least 2-3 years to pay for themselves are notoriously good at creating business plans, apparently mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Chokichi Ozuwara
Sons Of Alexander AL3XAND3R.
534
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Posted - 2013.05.24 06:30:00 -
[167] - Quote
The funniest part of the OP is where carebears work together for common goals. Hilarious. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
50
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Posted - 2013.05.24 06:59:00 -
[168] - Quote
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:The funniest part of the OP is where carebears work together for common goals. Hilarious.
the biggest problem with this are not the carebears, its more the null sec people who keep telling me with every comment they make: "please mr. carebear don't do this, we want to keep our place nice and quiet so we can keep spinning our ships in the hangar" OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Huang Mo
Tianxia Inc
7
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Posted - 2013.05.24 07:54:00 -
[169] - Quote
I seem to have hit a nerve here...
I didn't want to imply that no-sec'ers don't do high-sec stuff. I think we misunderstand each other because we disagree on the definition of "carebearer".
To me, a miner or a mission runner is not a carebearer. A carebearer is the one who buys ore from the miner or stuff from the mission runner, collect the resources and produce ships from it that is then sold back to the miners and mission runners. Or that provides services that support it, like RedFrog. But that is only my understanding of the term "carebearer", the general consensus may be different.
In my view, the biggest difference between the two groups is the motivation: Miners & mission runners want ISK to spend on their PvP activities. The people I'm talking about want ISK to invest and make even more ISK. They really don't play EvE, they play a giant Monopoly game that happens to be inside EvE.
Vera Algaert wrote:I spend ~70% of my gametime in high-sec farming level 4 missions. But the other 30% during which I pvp in 0.0 are what I see as defining of my playstyle Compare that to my play style: 90% staring on the market. 10% writing contracts. I never mine, I avoid moving stuff around myself, and I only run missions when I absolutely need to. I have never fired on another player, but I am damn good at market PvP.
Assume we have the same talent for business, then who do you think will win ? The one who do it part time or the one who do it full time ? The one who do it as a mean to do other and more fun stuff, or the one that do it because it is the game they play ?
All of this naturally depends on a few things. Most importantly that this game depends on carebearers, as have been theorized. If no-sec can do without them, then the whole thing is moot. Secondly, many heavy-weight high-sec'ers have to work together, and thirdly, a way to monopolize the market have to be found.
I don't say it is possible, and I have no intention of trying, but the core of the argument is that if high-sec want to fight low-sec, then the battle should take place inside Jita 4-4.
BTW: This is best way to inflate an ego and ruin a discussion:
Vera Algaert wrote:I'm certain there is some fancy Sun Tzu quote about the dangers of thinking you understand something when in fact you do not have a clue. Please look it up and apply it to yourself, Thanks. Smartass insults.... It is kinda immature and really annoying but typical no-sec attitude, I suppose ? |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
914
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Posted - 2013.05.24 09:27:00 -
[170] - Quote
Quote:I seem to have hit a nerve here... You really do try hard to conform to the stereotype of the Sun Tzu quoting high-sec pubbie. "Someone tells me I am full of ****, therefore I must have been right", next-level analytical thinking right there.
How successful you are at business in EVE depends very little on whether you spend 3h or 8h per day staring at market screens.
What matters is your ability to create buzz, your ability to control supply, your ability to stay current on blue posts/patch notes/... and to anticipate CCP moves, ... you won't be able to do that if you only spend 10 minutes per day on it but you don't need to babysit orders 23/7.
We can speculate all day about what percentages of high-sec market moguls are part of pvp alliances but if you look at who actually has pulled off successful large-scale manipulations and cartels you are looking at the likes of the Goonswarm Cabal or KwarK.
On the other hand maybe other things are not equal, maybe your statement is true and these players are just smarter than your regular high-sec carebear (and that's why they manage to combine being in a pvp alliance with being successful at playing the markets).
After all it does seem reasonable that highly skilled individuals would also try to be competitive in other aspects of the game (such as pvp) or appreciate all the advantages that only a large, well-organized 0.0 alliance can offer them (such as the ability to control/intercept the supply of critical inputs, political power, a few hundred people who will buy what you tell them when you tell them, ...). Maybe some sort of self-selection does occur and the best don't stay carebears for long.
Anyways, what I am trying to is that the skills high-sec carebears have is a subset of the skills found in any sizeable 0.0 alliance. You don't have any single advantage over them because they play your game the same way you do - but you refuse to play their game.
Quote:I don't say it is possible, and I have no intention of trying. Then why do you post? Do you think someone else will read your post and say "OMG I never thought of this, I am going to sink all my eleventy trillion ISK into this strategy that is so convincing not even its creator is willing to give it a shot?"
These threads do hit a nerve with 0.0 players - they start out looking all promising and action-y but inevitably end in a bunch of high-sec pubbies making big words while waiting for someone to do something, never lifting a finger themselves.
We would unironically love for someone to bring it on. We would love for some attempt to get at least to the level where it can fail hilariously - but all we get is abortions and stillborns. |
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Huang Mo
Tianxia Inc
7
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Posted - 2013.05.24 10:44:00 -
[171] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:You really do try hard to conform to the stereotype of the Sun Tzu quoting high-sec pubbie. "Someone tells me I am full of ****, therefore I must have been right", next-level analytical thinking right there.
Ok. Lets stop the discussion right there.
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