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Bishop Remise
Freelance Mining Enterprises
0
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Posted - 2013.05.18 00:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
i'm trying to see myself mining in 0.0 space with Odyssey and I was wondering if this what I came up with is correct.
Atm as a pvper you worp in a system pin point the miners loc (lets say there are 10 belts). worp to them and hope for the best. Now if the system is upgraded the miners prob will be at the hidden belt because they are great to mine and they are relative safe for your orca to be at. because a ganker won't find you that easy. I don't know if this is 100% correct please tell me what i'm missing.
Now with Odyssey if i'm not mistaken hidden belts won't be hidden? so when a pvper shows up in a system and lets say its lvl 1 (indus). he would know pretty much 100% sure where to file with no scanning nothing. giving the miners how much time to respond? assuming the miners are in the hidden belt that is.
Now if this is correct does this not seem like a problem? would it not be safe to assume people would take the gamble to jump to the hidden belt within the first seconds they enter a system??
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Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
1787
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Posted - 2013.05.18 00:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sure, but hope there isn't a bubble gang waiting for you setting up a trap for the greedy. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
1831
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Posted - 2013.05.18 00:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mining in nullsec is far less risky than hisec or lowsec.
You don't go mining in random nulsec systems: you mine in upgraded systems that people have invested time and ISK into. For the most part you can tell at a glance if there is a hostile in system, even if they managed to not get reported on the intel channels first.
One can even anchor conveniently placed bubbles as the warp-in is known, and buy the miners time to escape. |
DeLindsay
Galaxies Fall
171
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Posted - 2013.05.18 06:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Quote:You don't go mining in random nulsec systems Why not, it's the very best way to meet the owners of said random nullsec. Make no mistake about it, you mine/rat/plex/mission in a nullsec not belonging to your Corp and the owners will stop by to say hello, they might even bring along some fireworks for your viewing pleasure. The Operative:-á"There are a lot of innocent people being killed in the air right now".
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds:-á"You have no idea how true that is". |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3404
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Posted - 2013.05.18 08:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Mining in nullsec is far less risky than hisec or lowsec.
Only if they behave differently from the miners in HS.
If you're mining AFK or semi-AFK in nullsec, you're almost certainly going to lose your ship far more often than someone doing the same in HS.
If you're at the keyboard and attentive (required for any Nullsec mining to be not suicidal), you can be virtually uncatchably by suicide gankers in HS. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Haulie Berry
735
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Posted - 2013.05.18 14:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Quote:Now if this is correct does this not seem like a problem?
Wait. Waitwaitwait. Miners... miners might get blown up because of this change?
How could they have missed this huge and clearly unintended side effect of the Odyssey changes?!?!? |
Mulani Keikira
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.05.18 15:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:Quote:Now if this is correct does this not seem like a problem? Wait. Waitwaitwait. Miners... miners might get blown up because of this change? How could they have missed this huge and clearly unintended side effect of the Odyssey changes?!?!?
Legit miners are being thrown out with water filled with the rampant afk'ing ice field botting miners. This part I'm sure is just collateral damage to dealing with botting since no one in EVE values miners anyways. |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
795
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Posted - 2013.05.18 16:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Mining in nullsec is far less risky than hisec or lowsec.
You don't go mining in random nulsec systems: you mine in upgraded systems that people have invested time and ISK into. For the most part you can tell at a glance if there is a hostile in system, even if they managed to not get reported on the intel channels first.
One can even anchor conveniently placed bubbles as the warp-in is known, and buy the miners time to escape. says the person who wets himself at the thought of going outside highsec
it's always the people terrified of leaving highsec talking at length about how safe null is |
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance
933
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Posted - 2013.05.18 17:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
Not a fan of the change but doesn't seem like it'll change. WH miners get really screwed.
What I would like us all belts show on scan, no more warp in locations. That would be fine with me. Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! |
Sabriz Adoudel
AWOXalypse
350
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Posted - 2013.05.19 08:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
DeLindsay wrote:Quote:You don't go mining in random nulsec systems Why not, it's the very best way to meet the owners of said random nullsec. Make no mistake about it, you mine/rat/plex/mission in a nullsec not belonging to your Corp and the owners will stop by to say hello, they might even bring along some fireworks for your viewing pleasure.
Two words. Cyno bait. AWOXalypse is coming! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2898431 Buy shares: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=226618 An enemy is a friend you stab in the front. |
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Raiz Nhell
Kangaroo Ate my baby Orchestrated Alliance
267
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Posted - 2013.05.20 04:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sorry... I fail to see how this changes anything for 0.0 miners...
Nuet/red appears in local, or more likely on intel several systems away... Miners dock up/safe up... regardless of whether they are in a hidden belt or not... Miners undock in PVP ships under command of FC in defense fleet... Nuet/red is dealt with or we all die in a fire...
This happens now, and will happen after Odyssey... The only change will be that those jetcans full of spod will be hauled back to the station rather than shot/abandoned.
There is no such thing as a fair fight...
If your fighting fair you have automatically put yourself at a disadvantage. |
Honest Blob
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2013.05.20 06:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
I just see it as sad that ccp is making it easyer for a defenceless industrial ship to be killed. Not enough our resists were ****** about a patch ago but now the belts are instawarps? |
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance
933
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Posted - 2013.05.20 11:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
Raiz Nhell wrote:Sorry... I fail to see how this changes anything for 0.0 miners...
Nuet/red appears in local, or more likely on intel several systems away... Miners dock up/safe up... regardless of whether they are in a hidden belt or not... Miners undock in PVP ships under command of FC in defense fleet... Nuet/red is dealt with or we all die in a fire...
This happens now, and will happen after Odyssey... The only change will be that those jetcans full of spod will be hauled back to the station rather than shot/abandoned.
Regarding jet cans, Mack's will be the mining ship of choice and hulks will become largely useless. No one is going to park a rorqual in the belt to scoop cans in the case a red pops in system...you'll never get warped in time.
I still don't get he point of this change. It looks more like 'coding things differently is hard so let's just make up a bs justification for it like we thought this through'. Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! |
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
167
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Posted - 2013.05.21 12:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
Zifrian wrote:Not a fan of the change but doesn't seem like it'll change. WH miners get really screwed.
Setting up will take longer but WH miners still won't be screwed.
I don't know how other people go about this but when I'm mining in the WH I take some precautions.
1) I bubble the exit and only mine when we have one exit (which in our WH is most of the time) 2) I put a cloaky scout in a blackbird on the exit so I can see when people come in and possibly warp in the cavalry in a throw-away ship. The scout also has combat probes out to watch for possible new exits spawning that I don't have scouted (the only thing that has ever gotten me ganked) 3) I put all the other characters in belt at different roids (not all on the same one) so if a lone cloaky happened to be camping in the WH, worst case is that I lose one mining ship 4) all the miners have ecm drones and an ECM module. (for a lone cloaky you can align, hope for a hit on time and warp)
Conversely, all of the miners I kill now I get by pre-scanning the grav sites and leaving a cloaky in their WH watching the POS while I do other things. Sometimes people log on and go mining but I don't need probes to find them.
In other words, for me personally things won't change much after the patch.... aside from that people will probably be mining less due to doing more ice mining and fears of gankers, so I'll probably make more isk.
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Wasse
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
12
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Posted - 2013.05.21 14:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
Zifrian wrote:Raiz Nhell wrote:Sorry... I fail to see how this changes anything for 0.0 miners...
Nuet/red appears in local, or more likely on intel several systems away... Miners dock up/safe up... regardless of whether they are in a hidden belt or not... Miners undock in PVP ships under command of FC in defense fleet... Nuet/red is dealt with or we all die in a fire...
This happens now, and will happen after Odyssey... The only change will be that those jetcans full of spod will be hauled back to the station rather than shot/abandoned.
Regarding jet cans, Mack's will be the mining ship of choice and hulks will become largely useless. No one is going to park a rorqual in the belt to scoop cans in the case a red pops in system...you'll never get warped in time. I still don't get he point of this change. It looks more like 'coding things differently is hard so let's just make up a bs justification for it like we thought this through'.
Sure they will. Roquals have a few great things.
1. Capital Tractor Beams 2. Cloaking Devices 3. Jump drives.
I warp my rorqual in, 100kms off the grav site. I tractor beam into that. Neut hops in? I can:
1. be prealigned, and warp back to the pos. 2. Cloak up. 3. Jump to a cyno beacon.
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Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
627
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Posted - 2013.05.21 14:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:Sure, but hope there isn't a bubble gang waiting for you setting up a trap for the greedy. lol, yeah because PVPers actually sit on their thumbs protecting miners with the hopes a ganking fleet will come by and attack them.
I have been on many null sec mining ops, at most there is one combat ship just there tp pop the rats so the mining fleet can fit for max yield, and that is usually an Alt/main of one of the miners. When I solo mined it was with 3-4 accounts, and I would have my ORCA in belt with a combat ship or two in the Ship Maintenance Bay just in case it was needed. But neither of these fleets was set up for protection against ganks. When under threat from a roaming gang we would warp to a POS. This did not happen often as the hidden belts we were in had to be scanned down. We would all be watching D-scan for probes when ever a neut was in system. If we saw probes we warped.
With the new system you can not rely on watching D-scan as there will be no probes to see. The threat is usually from cloaky campers so you will not see their cloaked ship on D-scan either. On June 4th null sec mining in hidden belts will go from enough warning of a threat to warp out, to not knowing until they decloak right beside you. This is not something a defensive fleet can solve, that cloaky canper likely has a cyno. Even if the PVPers were willing to sit there and protect you, which most are not. |
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
93
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Posted - 2013.05.30 16:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:Abrazzar wrote:Sure, but hope there isn't a bubble gang waiting for you setting up a trap for the greedy. lol, yeah because PVPers actually sit on their thumbs protecting miners with the hopes a ganking fleet will come by and attack them. I have been on many null sec mining ops, at most there is one combat ship just there tp pop the rats so the mining fleet can fit for max yield, and that is usually an Alt/main of one of the miners. When I solo mined it was with 3-4 accounts, and I would have my ORCA in belt with a combat ship or two in the Ship Maintenance Bay just in case it was needed. But neither of these fleets was set up for protection against ganks. When under threat from a roaming gang we would warp to a POS. This did not happen often as the hidden belts we were in had to be scanned down. We would all be watching D-scan for probes when ever a neut was in system. If we saw probes we warped. With the new system you can not rely on watching D-scan as there will be no probes to see. The threat is usually from cloaky campers so you will not see their cloaked ship on D-scan either. On June 4th null sec mining in hidden belts will go from enough warning of a threat to warp out, to not knowing until they decloak right beside you. This is not something a defensive fleet can solve, that cloaky canper likely has a cyno. Even if the PVPers were willing to sit there and protect you, which most are not.
So not being 100% safe from reds in system while mining is a serious issue? I don't think having that mining-content in nullsec completely safe will do much good further. Got POSes already as a safehouse, it's normally the same spot ratters use to wait out reds. |
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