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Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
499
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 15:12:00 -
[91] - Quote
Andski wrote:The only effect this will have is people switching from paying their subs the regular way to paying an extra $2.50 every month to cash in on the redeemables. They're not going to use them, they're going to sell them, and if it's an actual ship it'll depress the price of that ship to the point where industrialists can't compete. The alternative is that CCP creates a whole new line of ships to be redeemed by buying PLEX, which creeps into "premium non-vanity items" territory. Do I have to remind you what happened when CCP merely hinted at creating a "premium" line of ships redeemable through the NeX store?
Sub is $15 per month for 1 month at a time, and it goes down a lot if you buy time in bulk. So the difference between a sub and a PLEX is $5 at a minimum. I think the type of people who are paying subs and buying PLEX sometimes are not so "careful" with their in game stuff either. For myself I would continue to buy game time in bulk and might buy a PLEX every now and then. I'm sure CCP has a better idea of how people react and exactly what measures would have to be taken in order to balance things out.
As for the "premium" ships, yeah the "kick scream and whine" crowd spoke right up. But really CCP has been catering to them for far too long anyway. The game has places to go and things to do, can't hold back for a few poor sports.
Micro transactions are the monetization model for DUST already, so in fact we will be seeing the influence that this type of program has. I bet its wildly successful there and easily incorporated into the overall Eve economy.
-áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7925
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 15:29:00 -
[92] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:As for the "premium" ships, yeah the "kick scream and whine" crowd spoke right up. But really CCP has been catering to them for far too long anyway. The game has places to go and things to do, can't hold back for a few poor sports.
Yeah it's time for CCP to give their core players the finger, simply because "the game has places to go and things to do." Just like Sony did with SWG! mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
7
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 15:36:00 -
[93] - Quote
I have bought plex to fund ships. I was working 70 hour weeks and it made little sense to raise isk in game at the time when I could buy isk legally and pvp instead. |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
499
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 15:41:00 -
[94] - Quote
Andski wrote:Corey Fumimasa wrote:As for the "premium" ships, yeah the "kick scream and whine" crowd spoke right up. But really CCP has been catering to them for far too long anyway. The game has places to go and things to do, can't hold back for a few poor sports.
Yeah it's time for CCP to give their core players the finger, simply because "the game has places to go and things to do." Just like Sony did with SWG!
That's not their core players, its a vocal minority that has managed to carve out a nitch by complaining about things that they don't like.
The core players are the ones who send CCP money to keep the servers up and the staff payed. If the forums are any indication that crowd is a lot more easy going. They seem to pay happily and spend some time looking around in Eve and having a good time challenging themselves against the hazards and complexities there.
Those are the people a game wants more of. And a shift in creating more in game value for those types of player will get more of them engaged with the game. -áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7926
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 15:46:00 -
[95] - Quote
Yes well I guess CCP should also add redeemable skillpoints to every PLEX sale because "**** da haters" am i right???
CCP didn't need forum whining to confirm that the playerbase was unhappy about Incarna, the PCU drop that took 2 1/2 years to recover from spoke for itself. mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7926
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 15:57:00 -
[96] - Quote
But hey if you think your excellent ideas need to be implemented ASAP but CCP is too dumb or scared to do so, maybe you should go start a development house and design an MMO around your amazing ideas. If you're right, you'll be successful and vindicated. If not, you'll be deep in debt and starving. But that won't happen, right? mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Velicitia
Nex Exercitus
1561
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 16:00:00 -
[97] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Andski wrote:The only effect this will have is people switching from paying their subs the regular way to paying an extra $2.50 every month to cash in on the redeemables. They're not going to use them, they're going to sell them, and if it's an actual ship it'll depress the price of that ship to the point where industrialists can't compete. The alternative is that CCP creates a whole new line of ships to be redeemed by buying PLEX, which creeps into "premium non-vanity items" territory. Do I have to remind you what happened when CCP merely hinted at creating a "premium" line of ships redeemable through the NeX store? Sub is $15 per month for 1 month at a time, and it goes down a lot if you buy time in bulk. So the difference between a sub and a PLEX is $5 at a minimum.
and a PLEX is ~17.50 (34.95 for a 60d GTC from shattered crystal et. al.).
17.5 less 15 = 2.50, which happens to be less than 5. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
500
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 16:08:00 -
[98] - Quote
Andski wrote:Yes well I guess CCP should also add redeemable skillpoints to every PLEX sale because "**** da haters" am i right???
CCP didn't need forum whining to confirm that the playerbase was unhappy about Incarna, the PCU drop that took 2 1/2 years to recover from spoke for itself.
We really have no idea what their metrics were and what took place in their conference rooms during that time. Perhaps the player uproar was anticipated and they went through with it anyway just for the media attention. Maybe 80% of the the accounts that were deactivated were secondary accounts and they wanted to thin those out anyway. So an apology and some great work on ship rebalance and numbers are back up, and maybe the new accounts are paying individuals.
I have seen a ton of people coming back after long away times since Incarna, and a lot of brand new players taking up the game. Perhaps that is a result of the media attention from Incarna. CCP doesn't share those figures, its interesting that certain people always assume that they are bad numbers, that CCP is losing subscriptions that they wanted to keep and that Eve is dying. Rather than consider the fact that player turn-over is part of the game and that maybe CCP is working that angle to get a new and different type of player in game. That is after all how Eve creates content. -áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3372
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 16:08:00 -
[99] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Look. Chances are if you are buying plex with isk, you are most likley earning less than minimum wage in a sense.
I earn far more than minimum wage, but I still get satisfaction from adding game time using PLEX that I bought with ISK. I don't get paid overtime, so it's not like I can just tell the boss, "I'm working an extra hour today so you can pay me the extra money I need to support my EVE Online hobby."
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami Moon Warriors
359
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 16:10:00 -
[100] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:I'm not a big buyer of in game currency. It always seems like cheating to me and ends up taking away more opportunity to interact with the game than it provides.
I have purchased currency in other games just to see what that would be like. The coolest part was the actual transaction, it felt like a shady deal in a dark alley where I was getting something that I wanted for a good price.
But after the fact the currency and the items that I bought with it felt empty of meaning in a way. I stopped playing that character soon after and left that game for a while.
In Eve PLEX is part of the game. Buying a few PLEX to start an investment is a great option, that can pay off in the long run because the investment could eventually start to buy PLEX to play. I think it can be argued that PLEX is one of the most innovative and important innovations in the history of gaming.
there have been a few times that I have thought about buying one; an investment that would have probably returned the money in a year or so, an expensive ship that I wanted to buy, and a few times just for the experience of dealing in one. To this point I have not, 20$ for .5 billion ISK never seemed to be worth it.
I was thinking about PLEX the other day and wrote out some of the pro's and cons, I'm not going to bore you with the details. The bottom line however was intersting, it came out to 2 billion ISK.
What is your bottom line?
I'd buy a plex when they sold for 400mil.
It's only 1 hr of RW work to afford a quick ship when I'm strapped for isk. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
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Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
500
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 16:18:00 -
[101] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote: I'd buy a plex when they sold for 400mil.
It's only 1 hr of RW work to afford a quick ship when I'm strapped for isk.
Its funny how thats post #100 Murk, you are one of the few people that actually just answered the question! A good sign I think
-áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3373
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 16:31:00 -
[102] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:As for the "premium" ships, yeah the "kick scream and whine" crowd spoke right up. But really CCP has been catering to them for far too long anyway. The game has places to go and things to do, can't hold back for a few poor sports.
The "kick scream and whine" crowd were only all the PvPers and industrialists who cared enough to complain that the game was going to be ruined. They were the people who unsubbed and stopped playing. CCP listened to them because the money supply started disappearing. The "few poor sports" are the ones that stopped funding CCP to the point that CCP had to let 20% of their staff go.
I'm pretty sure you're actually in the minority here, being an EVE player who thinks that "premium ships" would in any way be a good idea or add something interesting to the game. If you want World of Tanks style gameplay, go play World of Tanks.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami Moon Warriors
361
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 17:27:00 -
[103] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:I guess it might cause the destruction of some game wealth, but Eve is partly about loss and overcoming difficulties. And honestly if doing so would sell more PLEX and not change the current dynamic of "sandbox gameplay" at all it just seems like there would be more money coming in to the Eve side of CCP which is good for the game. It will get more funding as far as manpower for the next xpac.
I would hate to see trit hit 7,000 isk per unit to be honest.
PLEX and isk is not the only relationship isk has in this game. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
500
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 17:32:00 -
[104] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Corey Fumimasa wrote:As for the "premium" ships, yeah the "kick scream and whine" crowd spoke right up. But really CCP has been catering to them for far too long anyway. The game has places to go and things to do, can't hold back for a few poor sports. The "kick scream and whine" crowd were only all the PvPers and industrialists who cared enough to complain that the game was going to be ruined. They were the people who unsubbed and stopped playing. CCP listened to them because the money supply started disappearing. The "few poor sports" are the ones that stopped funding CCP to the point that CCP had to let 20% of their staff go. I'm pretty sure you're actually in the minority here, being an EVE player who thinks that "premium ships" would in any way be a good idea or add something interesting to the game. If you want World of Tanks style gameplay, go play World of Tanks.
There was a lot more behind that movement than just rumors of "premium" ships. Dust is going to be funded on money for gear, so there is going to be some of this type of system affecting Eve anyway. It will be very interesting to watch that process unfold.
At any rate selling more PLEX and having more going on in Eve would be a good thing. Its a shame that players with little real time are relegated to being second class citizens because they don't have the time to interact with and develop their accounts as fully as more engaged players.
Increasing the value of PLEX to levels that are closer to what a standard 2 account fully engaged box can produce would put more players on similar levels and create more conflict at those levels. This doesn't take anything away from anyone except perhaps the illusion that the Eve economy is totally free from regulation. -áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami Moon Warriors
361
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 17:38:00 -
[105] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Andski wrote:Keep in mind that the OP was previously suggesting that CCP make PLEX scams a bannable offense because in his opinion, they should be treated differently from other items. Also something about it driving away "the kids" or some nonsense
Now he's complaining that the price of PLEX is too low for him to consider buying and he thinks CCP should buy up thousands of units of PLEX and floor it at 2b
These two ideas are a bit, well, conflicting My point there, and here is that when a paying customer buys an item they have some expectation of that item. If the item fails to meet those expectations then people generally don't buy more. I think PLEX should have a subsidized "floor" under it so that it is a consistently good product. And the result of that last thread wasn't that PLEX scams should be banned; rather that PLEX should be a riskier but more valuable item than Time Code. Time Code would be the default way for people to buy in game currency and it would have protections. In this way only older more savvy players would be dealing in PLEX and they would get a premium for doing so. Players brand new to the game or players who receive Time code as a gift would be protected in that transaction. I was very happy with that thread, and I still think its a great idea.
Well, if you go to CCP's website, and go through the plex purchasing process... you get the item you paid for. Your choice to use it for isk generation or for game time.
But you still paid real money for an ingame item. That ingame item's monetary value has ZERO to do with the real money transaction from the website.
Otherwise, we WOULD see isk purchasing bundles on their website.
The expectation you mention, is in fact, met. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
500
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 17:42:00 -
[106] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:Corey Fumimasa wrote:I guess it might cause the destruction of some game wealth, but Eve is partly about loss and overcoming difficulties. And honestly if doing so would sell more PLEX and not change the current dynamic of "sandbox gameplay" at all it just seems like there would be more money coming in to the Eve side of CCP which is good for the game. It will get more funding as far as manpower for the next xpac. I would hate to see trit hit 7,000 isk per unit to be honest. PLEX and isk is not the only relationship isk has in this game.
Wont happen. Heck for all we know CCP is already buying back PLEX to keep the price at a certain level. People don't notice because it blends right into the game. There's plenty of room for the Eve economy to accelerate and always new and interesting stuff to buy and get blown up or collect or whatever.
-áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami Moon Warriors
361
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 17:51:00 -
[107] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Andski wrote: You don't have an answer, because you completely made that **** up and you're dodging the question to avoid eating crow, realizing that it makes absolutely no sense. It's like saying that if gas prices go from $3/gallon to $12/gallon overnight, people would keep buying gas guzzling SUVs.
Also, yes, CCP has complete and total control over the economy. Completely correct. However, the extent to which they exercise their control is a completely different question. It's simple: they don't, with very few exceptions like removing ISK from botters or taking PLEX from the hangars of permabanned players and putting them on the market (which has the opposite effect of spawning 1 trillion ISK to inflate PLEX prices to 2 billion per unit, if you bother to rub a couple of brain cells together)
You just missed one of the earlier posts and I didn't catch it. The ISK price for PLEX remains exactly the same, CCP only subsidizes the value by adding redeemable goods packages to the PLEX up front. So I buy a PLEX, I get the PLEX plus whatever redeemable Items that I choose from the options available. I still put the PLEX on the market to get actual ISK for it. Destiny pointed out that this is a great deal and more people will probably buy PLEX which is part of the goal. But with more PLEX hitting the in game market the price will fall. The solution to that is for CCP to have buy bots that purchase PLEX directly from the market until the price gets where it needs to be. This does inject some ISK into the markets that will have to sink out. But not as much as you might think because the majority of ISK being used to buy the PLEX will still be player generated. And the accelerated economy will also accelerate existing sinks. This is just envelope math, but the idea is sound. Its very similar to the way central banks accelerate the economy right now, and CCP has even more tools to limit inflation on the back end.
I get a free trit with every noobship I spawn when I dock in a station.
Doesn't mean I want to lose my ships to get that free trit instead of reprocessing a looted wreck. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
500
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 17:53:00 -
[108] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote: Well, if you go to CCP's website, and go through the plex purchasing process... you get the item you paid for. Your choice to use it for isk generation or for game time.
But you still paid real money for an ingame item. That ingame item's monetary value has ZERO to do with the real money transaction from the website.
Otherwise, we WOULD see isk purchasing bundles on their website.
The expectation you mention, is in fact, met.
The thread Andy was referencing started because a kid came to help chat and explained how his parents were going to be very angry because he traded his gifted PLEX for nothing in a station trade scam. I'm all for scams, but neither this kid nor his parents knew how to handle a PLEX in game. I think people like that should have a safe option to use real money to buy ISK just so they buy more again!
The best solution that came out of that thread was to make timecode a less effective way to get ISK, but have protections on it so that the purchaser was guaranteed to at least get some cool stuff for their money. And have ISK be available as more effective way to get ISK but also one that included risk. It just seemed like an interesting way to protect brand new players and encourage them to send money to CCP while still offering all the risks and possibilities of PLEX to more seasoned gamers. -áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami Moon Warriors
362
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 17:56:00 -
[109] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Murk Paradox wrote: I'd buy a plex when they sold for 400mil.
It's only 1 hr of RW work to afford a quick ship when I'm strapped for isk.
Its funny how thats post #100 Murk, you are one of the few people that actually just answered the question! A good sign I think
Yea since I stopped drinking and partying, I find I spend a lot more money on games (for my kids too through playstion store) and still doesn't equate to what I'd spend at a bar in one night.
When I lost a legion a month ago, I redeemed 2 plexes and bought another. Wasn't going to be bothered with collecting all my pi and hit the ice for a couple of hours to do it. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami Moon Warriors
362
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 17:59:00 -
[110] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:Corey Fumimasa wrote:I guess it might cause the destruction of some game wealth, but Eve is partly about loss and overcoming difficulties. And honestly if doing so would sell more PLEX and not change the current dynamic of "sandbox gameplay" at all it just seems like there would be more money coming in to the Eve side of CCP which is good for the game. It will get more funding as far as manpower for the next xpac. I would hate to see trit hit 7,000 isk per unit to be honest. PLEX and isk is not the only relationship isk has in this game. Wont happen. Heck for all we know CCP is already buying back PLEX to keep the price at a certain level. People don't notice because it blends right into the game. There's plenty of room for the Eve economy to accelerate and always new and interesting stuff to buy and get blown up or collect or whatever.
The people selling the plex that gets bought from the market know though.
If I decided to buy a bundle of 300 plex and seed the market and saw "CCP (insertname) has purchased...."
I'd make a post on these forums in a heartbeat. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
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Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami Moon Warriors
362
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 18:04:00 -
[111] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Murk Paradox wrote: Well, if you go to CCP's website, and go through the plex purchasing process... you get the item you paid for. Your choice to use it for isk generation or for game time.
But you still paid real money for an ingame item. That ingame item's monetary value has ZERO to do with the real money transaction from the website.
Otherwise, we WOULD see isk purchasing bundles on their website.
The expectation you mention, is in fact, met.
The thread Andy was referencing started because a kid came to help chat and explained how his parents were going to be very angry because he traded his gifted PLEX for nothing in a station trade scam. I'm all for scams, but neither this kid nor his parents knew how to handle a PLEX in game. I think people like that should have a safe option to use real money to buy ISK just so they buy more again! The best solution that came out of that thread was to make timecode a less effective way to get ISK, but have protections on it so that the purchaser was guaranteed to at least get some cool stuff for their money. And have ISK be available as more effective way to get ISK but also one that included risk. It just seemed like an interesting way to protect brand new players and encourage them to send money to CCP while still offering all the risks and possibilities of PLEX to more seasoned gamers.
You know, strangely enough, my kids once hit the buttons on their mother's laptop and spent $60 worth of facebook credits.
Because it was an accident, we were able to talk to their CS and get it resolved (we never spent any of it).
However!, your comment has a kid, who through his parents, bought isk for a specific reason, and he used that isk for a different reason, and got burned for it.
The old adage "you can't cheat an honest man" still holds true.
And to be honest, his parents should have checked to see what they were buying. My kids ask for bundles from ps store all the time for their little big world and disney adventure games all the time.
If I just handed them a credit card without handling it myself, and someone convinced them over ps3 to givbe them my login info... that's my fault isn't it if my stuff I paid for got stolen.
If those parents do NOT care, that they feel justified in spending that money regardless of what happened to it, then it's on the kid for wasting his "allowance". Welcome to Eve, don't do it again.
BUT, that does not have any effect on CCP's business model for plex/gtc and why it should be changed unfortunately. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
Anne Dieu-le-veut
State War Academy Caldari State
14
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 18:06:00 -
[112] - Quote
If you think people currently funding their accounts with PLEX wouldn't drop like a rock at 2B ISK vs 520M-ish ISK a month, I really don't think we can agree on anything. I know if I'm buying beer for $5.20 and the price suddenly goes to $20, I'd probably start brewing my own.
Seeing how CCP doesn't seem to have a problem selling PLEX when they're going for 520M, I doubt they're going to artificially inflate the price to 2B any time soon. |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
500
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 19:01:00 -
[113] - Quote
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:If you think people currently funding their accounts with PLEX wouldn't drop like a rock at 2B ISK vs 520M-ish ISK a month, I really don't think we can agree on anything. I know if I'm buying beer for $5.20 and the price suddenly goes to $20, I'd probably start brewing my own.
Seeing how CCP doesn't seem to have a problem selling PLEX when they're going for 520M, I doubt they're going to artificially inflate the price to 2B any time soon.
The thread is about CCP subsidizing the value of PLEX so that external buyers get more for their money. This most likely lower the cost of PLEX overall as it would remove the need to keep the ingame price for PLEX high enough so that people would buy it.
The drawbacks are that players have to acknowledge that CCP is medling with the economy in order to do this. But the way I see it they already meddle in the economy, so really nothing changes.
TL/DR Cost of PLEX will go down for people PLEXing their accounts if CCP includes some goods with the purchase of a PLEX. -áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami Moon Warriors
363
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 19:05:00 -
[114] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:If you think people currently funding their accounts with PLEX wouldn't drop like a rock at 2B ISK vs 520M-ish ISK a month, I really don't think we can agree on anything. I know if I'm buying beer for $5.20 and the price suddenly goes to $20, I'd probably start brewing my own.
Seeing how CCP doesn't seem to have a problem selling PLEX when they're going for 520M, I doubt they're going to artificially inflate the price to 2B any time soon. The thread is about CCP subsidizing the value of PLEX so that external buyers get more for their money. This most likely lower the cost of PLEX overall as it would remove the need to keep the ingame price for PLEX high enough so that people would buy it. The drawbacks are that players have to acknowledge that CCP is medling with the economy in order to do this. But the way I see it they already meddle in the economy, so really nothing changes. TL/DR Cost of PLEX will go down for people PLEXing their accounts if CCP includes some goods with the purchase of a PLEX.
Cost in regards to isk as the method of payment? Yes, the value of the isk will go down with the prices of plex. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Tribal Band
514
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Posted - 2013.05.20 19:09:00 -
[115] - Quote
Shadow Lord77 wrote:BadAssMcKill wrote:I can see your point , but however look at it from CCP's point of view. How many players would buy plex to keep their accounts going if they cost 2 billion?
I think 500-600 million is a decent middle ground ^ I think PLEX is actually undervalued. The real reason why it's so low is that everytime it peaks above 600M CCPs economic designers begin to dump all their confiscated/bought-in-game PLEX on the markets. CCP doesn't put PLEX on the market, and they don't adjust its price. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
500
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Posted - 2013.05.20 19:13:00 -
[116] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:....
BUT, that does not have any effect on CCP's business model for plex/gtc and why it should be changed unfortunately.
Yeah despite all of my very well constructed arguments they never have! That doesn't mean its not a good idea. It just means that they havn't gotten to the PLEX part of the inbox yet!
His parents bought him the credits/tokens/coins/PLEX thinking that's how the game is played and that it would be a fun gift. None of them understood that the entire Eve trade system has room for scams, that's just the way its built.
I don't think that a player should be forced to use an in-game market that is mechanically designed to allow shell games and dishonest dealings in order to redeem game tokens/credits/PLEX that they paid for. Give them some goods or ISK upfront and let people scam that a bit at a time away from them. $20 is too much to lose that way.
And I don't want the Eve markets and trade options to be dumbed down, they are perfect right now.
So, when someone buys game credits/tokens/plex they should have another option to redeem that. But if CCP were heavily subsidizing PLEX as this thread suggests it would not be such a big deal to lose the PLEX itself anyway. So you fix two things with one change. -áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
500
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Posted - 2013.05.20 19:29:00 -
[117] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote: The people selling the plex that gets bought from the market know though.
If I decided to buy a bundle of 300 plex and seed the market and saw "CCP (insertname) has purchased...."
I'd make a post on these forums in a heartbeat.
And what if they just used the random name generator to pick a new name for the bot with every purchase?
CCP has complete and total control of the Eve economy. They can do what they need to when the need to:
Too much ISK around, well turn down the rat bounties by .3% intermittently over the course of a few months. No one would notice and tons of ISK would disappear. Ships getting too expensive? Just alter the drop drop rates for their components, walla ship prices go down. PLEX prices too high in ISK terms? Offer a PLEX bundle for a discount. Miners bringing in too many minerals? Stop partial cycles from entering the ore hold if a pilot warps off without shutting down the laser. A specific ship looking too good for PvP? lower its stats and raise the mineral cost to make it.
This list goes on without end, CCP can and does control the Eve economy. They have complete and total authority to do so under the EULA. That doesn't change the game at all. -áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami Moon Warriors
363
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Posted - 2013.05.20 19:38:00 -
[118] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:....
BUT, that does not have any effect on CCP's business model for plex/gtc and why it should be changed unfortunately. Yeah despite all of my very well constructed arguments they never have! That doesn't mean its not a good idea. It just means that they havn't gotten to the PLEX part of the inbox yet! His parents bought him the credits/tokens/coins/PLEX thinking that's how the game is played and that it would be a fun gift. None of them understood that the entire Eve trade system has room for scams, that's just the way its built. I don't think that a player should be forced to use an in-game market that is mechanically designed to allow shell games and dishonest dealings in order to redeem game tokens/credits/PLEX that they paid for. Give them some goods or ISK upfront and let people scam that a bit at a time away from them. $20 is too much to lose that way. And I don't want the Eve markets and trade options to be dumbed down, they are perfect right now. So, when someone buys game credits/tokens/plex they should have another option to redeem that. But if CCP were heavily subsidizing PLEX as this thread suggests it would not be such a big deal to lose the PLEX itself anyway. So you fix two things with one change.
If it was for gametime, you can opt to buy a block of time directly through CCP's website and also opt to not have recurring charges on the credit card.
You do not have to use plex ingame in order to get more playtime.
Beyond that, in regards to scams... that is for a different thread, and forum. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami Moon Warriors
363
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 19:40:00 -
[119] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Murk Paradox wrote: The people selling the plex that gets bought from the market know though.
If I decided to buy a bundle of 300 plex and seed the market and saw "CCP (insertname) has purchased...."
I'd make a post on these forums in a heartbeat.
And what if they just used the random name generator to pick a new name for the bot with every purchase? CCP has complete and total control of the Eve economy. They can do what they need to when the need to: Too much ISK around, well turn down the rat bounties by .3% intermittently over the course of a few months. No one would notice and tons of ISK would disappear. Ships getting too expensive? Just alter the drop drop rates for their components, walla ship prices go down. PLEX prices too high in ISK terms? Offer a PLEX bundle for a discount. Miners bringing in too many minerals? Stop partial cycles from entering the ore hold if a pilot warps off without shutting down the laser. A specific ship looking too good for PvP? lower its stats and raise the mineral cost to make it. This list goes on without end, CCP can and does control the Eve economy. They have complete and total authority to do so under the EULA. That doesn't change the game at all.
Doesn't mean they do.
Hell, they could turn off the server if they wanted. Doesn't mean they do just because they can.
There's a certain level of trust involved when you give someone your money to play with their toys. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3374
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Posted - 2013.05.20 20:57:00 -
[120] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:At any rate selling more PLEX and having more going on in Eve would be a good thing. Its a shame that players with little real time are relegated to being second class citizens because they don't have the time to interact with and develop their accounts as fully as more engaged players.
Am I a second class citizen just because I don't play the way someone else plays? How is CCP relegating people like you or me to "second class" citizen status?
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Increasing the value of PLEX to levels that are closer to what a standard 2 account fully engaged box can produce would put more players on similar levels and create more conflict at those levels. This doesn't take anything away from anyone except perhaps the illusion that the Eve economy is totally free from regulation.
With 1 PLEX to your name, you can easily double its value in a month with about 20 minutes a day of playing. I have managed to do this in the past, and I am looking forward to doing the same when I return from leave. That same 20 minutes a day can produce remarkable increases in wealth as your pool of liquid capital becomes larger. As you trade more and more items, that 20 minutes a day returns greater dividends. Check out the Making ISK guide for more ideas on how to make ISK.
How would CCP go about increasing the value of PLEX? At present a single PLEX is worth as much as an account can raise without really trying each month: a few hours of ice harvesting a day, a few hours of mining, or an hour or two of mission running, or half an hour playing the market and engaging in speculative hauling. PLEX is worth this much for a reason: that reason is that the people buying the PLEX are doing the least amount of work possible to keep funding their accounts through PLEX.
For PLEX to be worth 2B ISK, that 30 hours of work a month would have to be worth 2B ISK. That would mean that the ships that you wish to buy with that 2B ISK will all cost about six times as much as they do now (because the miners want to buy that PLEX with around 30 hours of work a month). Which means that you're not really ahead. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
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