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Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
362
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 11:30:00 -
[61] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:Nyancat Audeles wrote: It seems that there is no Command Ship buff coming in Odyssey.
Correct. And good thing, too, since it would probably involve a minigame. I think we are going to have to do a burn Jita, but this time in opposition to the proliferation of mini games as opposed to micro transactions. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2091
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 11:36:00 -
[62] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Posting to confirm that all successful military forces put their top leaders in shiny vehicles and send them to the front lines during actual combat operations. General Dannat used to fly to the front line in Afghanistan bumming tabs off squaddies in a chinook to see the lads off. Prince Harry flew in an Apachi in his second tour of afghan. Prince Andrew flew a Linx in the Falklands war. Admiral Sir John Jellicoe was on HMS Iron Duke at the battle of Jutland. Lord Nelson was in the heart of the battle of Trafalgar on HMS Victory. Yes, and Alexander the Great bravely charged an elephant despite being so Irish that he literally sweats Guinness.
Look, exceptions to a rule don't invalidate the rule. And the rule here is that you don't put your top military leaders and command and control systems within earshot of the enemy firing line.
Also, since when are British royalty brats the top leaders of anything? I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
362
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 11:40:00 -
[63] - Quote
Usually troops do get a moral boost from being led from the front line. Now if Eve implemented morale effects for spaceships, perhaps spaceships would feel bolstered if their leader was fighting next to them, then the on grid argument would be appropriate. But from a purely tactical and intelligence point of view, there is little reason why commanders need to be on the actual field of battle if they can observe everything from afar. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9457
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 11:40:00 -
[64] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Posting to confirm that all successful military forces put their top leaders in shiny vehicles and send them to the front lines during actual combat operations. General Dannat used to fly to the front line in Afghanistan bumming tabs off squaddies in a chinook to see the lads off. Prince Harry flew in an Apachi in his second tour of afghan. Prince Andrew flew a Linx in the Falklands war. Admiral Sir John Jellicoe was on HMS Iron Duke at the battle of Jutland. Lord Nelson was in the heart of the battle of Trafalgar on HMS Victory.
So you don't have any examples of actual commanding happening in the heart of a battle more recent than...1916?
1 Kings 12:11
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War Kitten
Panda McLegion
1986
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 11:42:00 -
[65] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:Nyancat Audeles wrote: It seems that there is no Command Ship buff coming in Odyssey.
Correct. And good thing, too, since it would probably involve a minigame.
I remember CCP Soundwave mentioning something about Candy Crush recently.
Perhaps the fleet window would turn into a grid and the booster in the CS has to drag 3 Minmatar ships into a line to give them boosts? Then drag 4 Caldari ships in a line to get a super shield boost. And then match that with another super boost to doomsday everything in a 10k radius!
(Maybe a little too far...)
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
362
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 11:46:00 -
[66] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:Nyancat Audeles wrote: It seems that there is no Command Ship buff coming in Odyssey.
Correct. And good thing, too, since it would probably involve a minigame. I remember CCP Soundwave mentioning something about Candy Crush recently. Perhaps the fleet window would turn into a grid and the booster in the CS has to drag 3 Minmatar ships into a line to give them boosts? Then drag 4 Caldari ships in a line to get a super shield boost. And then match that with another super boost to doomsday everything in a 10k radius! (Maybe a little too far...) When the command link is activated, then a spray of cans are released in the vicinity of the target boosted ship. The target boosted ship has to open as many as possible and the more they manage to open before the expire will mean they get more of a boost.
I think that would work and would be fun gameplay mechanics. :) |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2091
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 11:47:00 -
[67] - Quote
I never asked for this. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |
Othran
Route One
500
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 11:53:00 -
[68] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:baltec1 wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Posting to confirm that all successful military forces put their top leaders in shiny vehicles and send them to the front lines during actual combat operations. General Dannat used to fly to the front line in Afghanistan bumming tabs off squaddies in a chinook to see the lads off. Prince Harry flew in an Apachi in his second tour of afghan. Prince Andrew flew a Linx in the Falklands war. Admiral Sir John Jellicoe was on HMS Iron Duke at the battle of Jutland. Lord Nelson was in the heart of the battle of Trafalgar on HMS Victory. So you don't have any examples of actual commanding happening in the heart of a battle more recent than...1916?
Calling what happened at Jutland "actual commanding" is stretching credulity
Oh and as far as the "royals" go, if anyone wants them then you can have them. We got hundreds of the parasites |
Yokai Mitsuhide
Smegnet Corp
4075
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 12:03:00 -
[69] - Quote
When they eventually get to rebalancing command ships, I reeeeeeeeeeeally hope they buff the Nighthawk so it doesn't feel like a 200+ million isk Drake. |
Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts Hegemonous Pandorum
173
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 12:47:00 -
[70] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Posting to confirm that all successful military forces put their top leaders in shiny vehicles and send them to the front lines during actual combat operations. General Dannat used to fly to the front line in Afghanistan bumming tabs off squaddies in a chinook to see the lads off. Prince Harry flew in an Apachi in his second tour of afghan. Prince Andrew flew a Linx in the Falklands war. Admiral Sir John Jellicoe was on HMS Iron Duke at the battle of Jutland. Lord Nelson was in the heart of the battle of Trafalgar on HMS Victory.
Englishmen in charge of having full slave sets. |
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Lord Ryan
Donkey Hats
793
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 12:49:00 -
[71] - Quote
Probably a nerf coming.
Do not assume-áanything above this line-áwas typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.
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Jerick Ludhowe
JLT corp
453
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 13:36:00 -
[72] - Quote
Last i heard command ship rebalance (the ships, not on grid links) is to come in the first point release after summer xpack.
What I would like to see is a reduction in the number of turrets/launchers across the class and a 75% to 100% role dmg bonus to turrets/launchers similar to what marauders have. This would enable similar levels of dps while also freeing up highs for Links to be used on grid in combat fits. I'd also like to see all commands normalized at "fleet commands" t2 resistances rather than the "field commands".
Chances are we will also see their base hp values increased to levels beyond that found in their tech1 hulls. Currently a Brutix has higher base hp values than an astarte which is rather out of place in the t1 to t2 progression. I would not be surprised if the commands have 10-15% more base hp than their t1 counterparts. |
Invisusira
The Rising Stars The Initiative.
154
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 13:51:00 -
[73] - Quote
Had a fantastic FC that led small-ish (10-30) Oracle fleets from his probing, boosting Damnation. He never lost it, despite sometimes being jumped by fleets twice our size. Not saying anything on rule vs exception, just saying.
Also, ibf "cva lol," but he's one of the best FCs I've ever had the pleasure of serving under. Core Skills - train em up train em up! |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7923
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 14:01:00 -
[74] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:I see no reason why they shouldn't reverse that change (that's not true, I actually see a lot of reasons).
"neutral triage carriers" mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
890
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 14:12:00 -
[75] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:Nyancat Audeles wrote: It seems that there is no Command Ship buff coming in Odyssey.
Correct. And good thing, too, since it would probably involve a minigame.
LOL, gotta love CCP-¦s "clever" ideas ... NOT! Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco |
baltec1
Bat Country
6536
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 14:29:00 -
[76] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote: Yes, and Alexander the Great bravely charged an elephant despite being so Irish that he literally sweats Guinness.
Look, exceptions to a rule don't invalidate the rule. And the rule here is that you don't put your top military leaders and command and control systems within earshot of the enemy firing line.
Also, since when are British royalty brats the top leaders of anything?
The queen is head of the military...
Also Every single fleet the UK has every sent to war has had its admirals in the fleet on the front line. Every single army has had it command go with it. You cant command these forces in a battle from London. |
Draqone an'Alreigh
EVE University Ivy League
40
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 14:33:00 -
[77] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:What are they going to do, make boosting non-corp-members give you a suspect flag?
Oh, ****.
Quite fun... i suggested a slightly more detailed version of that not long ago and the feedback was generally positive. Inducing the proliferation of common sense throughout EVE Official forums since April 27th, 2013. |
baltec1
Bat Country
6536
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 14:41:00 -
[78] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:
So you don't have any examples of actual commanding happening in the heart of a battle more recent than...1916?
Rear-Admiral J. 'Sandy' Woodward was in charge of the carrier battlegroup in the Falklands war in 1982. |
Nerva Auris
Southern Cross Empire Flying Dangerous
14
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 14:51:00 -
[79] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Posting to confirm that all successful military forces put their top leaders in shiny vehicles and send them to the front lines during actual combat operations.
Posting to confirm that all successful military forces consist of people living inside goo-filled eggs that take flash copies of their minds when they die and activate them in a new clone so they can get back into their spaceships and fly across the galaxy to blow stuff up. |
Othran
Route One
500
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 16:49:00 -
[80] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Also Every single fleet the UK has every sent to war has had its admirals in the fleet on the front line. Every single army has had it command go with it. You cant command these forces in a battle from London.
Ummm Northwood. AKA The Hole. You can indeed command a battle from London, even in 1982.
Also we have dozens of admirals and bugger all ships these days - in fact I think the last time we had less admirals than ships was the 1960s
Gods, well OT again |
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Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
377
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 18:06:00 -
[81] - Quote
Ive always envisioned links as being more of a speed booster for the systems of ships in the fleet than as a dedicated command and control network, like a backup node in a network it gives an additional amount of resource for the complete system to use.
Based on that design I think requiring on grid links makes sense, after all you need to have a fast and stable link to the system you intend to boost and provided you have the tech to make the link in the first place being right near its physical location is one of the best ways to ensure that.
All of which is IMO, theoretical, based on how I think the systems work in the lore etc etc Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin
you're welcome |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4157
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 19:02:00 -
[82] - Quote
A couple of random, yet pertinent, points:
1: Command ships will be rebalanced to be highly capable fighting vessels, especially if you choose to forego links entirely. Point being it becomes a valid tactic to have a large number of them on hand, and the enemy will likely have no idea which ones are fleet boosters and which ones are combat only grunts.
2: Why would your FC need to be flying your Command ship if you think it might be vulnerable to Alpha. Anyone can be designated fleet booster. If the only Command ships you are going to have present are a couple for boosting purposes, don't put your FC in one.
3: Raw tanking ability is not the only key to survival, whether it is done from a Command ship or a T3. Keeping range and being fast enough (in the case of the T3) is often the safest way to fit, depending on what the enemy is flying. Just stay close enough to provide boosts, and remain situationally aware.
Just a few points that are being conveniently overlooked. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
671
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 19:42:00 -
[83] - Quote
Point one is made null and void by graphics, or did they pull the link effect again?
The fun starts when you run into 20+ CC's, using two triple link ships and the rest being all death and hellfire running a single link to mess up visual inspection/scouting .. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2106
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 20:22:00 -
[84] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:The queen is head of the military...
Also Every single fleet the UK has every sent to war has had its admirals in the fleet on the front line. Every single army has had it command go with it. You cant command these forces in a battle from London. The command goes too (how would you have a fleet without an admiral?), but that doesn't mean they get thrown into the trenches with everyone else, unless the trenches are very, very safe. And in the case of a fleet, by the time they get to the admiral's ship, he's not really needed anymore anyway.
Nerva Auris wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Posting to confirm that all successful military forces put their top leaders in shiny vehicles and send them to the front lines during actual combat operations. Posting to confirm that all successful military forces consist of people living inside goo-filled eggs that take flash copies of their minds when they die and activate them in a new clone so they can get back into their spaceships and fly across the galaxy to blow stuff up. A living commander can keep commanding, instead of having to fly twenty jumps back in a new ship. Our current system is more analogous to a Roman emperor running to the front of the line, stealing a centurion's fancy hat while yelling "psych!", and then charging into battle with the cohort. That just doesn't really happen.
To everyone else, I urge you to consider what putting links on-grid would do for game balance between smaller and larger forces fighting each other. Whereas in the current system, both get the benefit of links and are equalized on that front, on-grid boosting will mean that smaller forces will no longer be able to retain this advantage in neutrality.
If you're in a large alliance and this would affect you positively, please carry on with the "noob pvp"/mother's basement accusations. :V I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |
baltec1
Bat Country
6546
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 20:59:00 -
[85] - Quote
Othran wrote:Also we have dozens of admirals and bugger all ships these days - in fact I think the last time we had less admirals than ships was the 1960s Gods, well OT again
We do this every time before a big war starts |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4158
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 21:11:00 -
[86] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Point one is made null and void by graphics, or did they pull the link effect again? The fun starts when you run into 20+ CC's, using two triple link ships and the rest being all death and hellfire running a single link to mess up visual inspection/scouting .. Link graphical effects "might" give you away in a small gang situation, but who has time to look at each ship of a given type in a large fleet... Usually you're looking at brackets and that's it. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2106
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 21:36:00 -
[87] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote:Point one is made null and void by graphics, or did they pull the link effect again? The fun starts when you run into 20+ CC's, using two triple link ships and the rest being all death and hellfire running a single link to mess up visual inspection/scouting .. Link graphical effects "might" give you away in a small gang situation, but who has time to look at each ship of a given type in a large fleet... Usually you're looking at brackets and that's it. A larger force shooting a smaller force has plenty of time to look at such things. Oh no, wait, they'll just shoot whatever booster ships are on grid first and then the latter will become ever smaller.
Yeah, big fleets is exactly the thing we need more of in this game. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
671
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 21:39:00 -
[88] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:...A living commander can keep commanding, instead of having to fly twenty jumps back in a new ship. Our current system is more analogous to a Roman emperor running to the front of the line, stealing a centurion's fancy hat while yelling "psych!", and then charging into battle with the cohort. That just doesn't really happen.... Augustus participated in a few suppression campaigns after he took power, but all others stopped being soldiers the minute they got their toga's .. in the same vein as today's politicians (fat-ass generals are just politicians with uniforms) are technically commanders.
Command in actual fighting is very much on the front line; Corporals, Sergeants and Lieutenants primarily, they have an immediate effect on outcome as their placement warrants.
The higher ups (ie. the aforementioned fat-asses) contribute with broader, non combat specific effect by shuffling assets around, generally making sure the troops are fed and where they need to be .. your roman Emperor (my Politicians) are more like the Titans in Eve, they get to press the button and provide generic bonuses to all under their command.
As for the plea: For every fight (when the moon is blue) against a numerically superior foe your off-grid links allows, a hundred fights never happen because of the self-same links.
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baltec1
Bat Country
6546
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 21:40:00 -
[89] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote: A larger force shooting a smaller force has plenty of time to look at such things. Oh no, wait, they'll just shoot whatever booster ships are on grid first and then the latter will become ever smaller.
Yeah, big fleets is exactly the thing we need more of in this game.
Its the logi that dies first along with tackle, Comand ships tend to die later on in the fight as the DPS trails off. |
Arronicus
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
634
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 21:45:00 -
[90] - Quote
Nyancat Audeles wrote:Hello, It was a couple months ago when they announced that they would fix off-grid boosting
Nope. What they said was, they would like to fix it, once they ever find a way to do so without breaking things horribly. |
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