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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
myFORUMalt alts
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.10.20 11:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
First, id like to state that if rogue drones were designed to be the poorest npc to rat, then this post doesnt matter. But, if all npc were supposed to be equal, then we have an issue.
In bounty rat space, a sanctum will yeild between 28 and 34 mil depending on if you do the ring or the station. So you fly in, kill everything, and then you get a bounty tic that adds up to 28-34 mil when youve completed it. if you go back and salvage and loot it all, its upwards of 40 mil, sometimes higher depending on the randomness of valuable loot drops. Of course salvaging increases the time it takes to rat. We move to drone space, where you have to salvage everything in order to get paid, which to completely salvage a sight, focusing on nothing but salvaing, takes about 8 minutes per sight. So, The average horde, equivilent to a sanctum, yeilds 29.2 mil in compounds and alloys based on jita prices. Seems fair. However, lets break some things down. I can run 4 sanctums in an hour in my tengu/thanatos combo I can run 4 hordes in an hour in my tengu/thanatos combo So, in bounty space, in one hour i make approx 120 mil, a little less but approximately. In roge drone space, i have to spend the first hour killing, then almost another 40 minutes salvaging, warping sight to sight, docking and unloading. that extra fourty minutes is atleast another 60 mil in bounty space. In addition, if it were apples to apples and i salvaged bounty rats, that fouty minutes of salvaging would give me an extra 40 mil in loot and salvage material. So, its like a compounded deficiency for my effort.
On a final note, Drone sentient spawns, are the worst in the game. I actually loose isk by having them come up. They yeild drone components worth less then normal compounds and alloys, and their salvage is worth less than a single armor plate.
My resolve, drone hordes should be worth 40-43 mil per horde to compensate for the increased salvage time and lack of extras like modules.
Anyone else have thoughts on this.
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CCP Spitfire
C C P C C P Alliance
270
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Posted - 2011.10.20 11:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
Thank you for the feedback. How would you feel about this idea?
CCP Spitfire | Russian Community Coordinator @ccp_spitfire |
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Signal11th
140
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Posted - 2011.10.20 11:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
myFORUMalt alts wrote:First, id like to state that if rogue drones were designed to be the poorest npc to rat, then this post doesnt matter. But, if all npc were supposed to be equal, then we have an issue.
In bounty rat space, a sanctum will yeild between 28 and 34 mil depending on if you do the ring or the station. So you fly in, kill everything, and then you get a bounty tic that adds up to 28-34 mil when youve completed it. if you go back and salvage and loot it all, its upwards of 40 mil, sometimes higher depending on the randomness of valuable loot drops. Of course salvaging increases the time it takes to rat. We move to drone space, where you have to salvage everything in order to get paid, which to completely salvage a sight, focusing on nothing but salvaing, takes about 8 minutes per sight. So, The average horde, equivilent to a sanctum, yeilds 29.2 mil in compounds and alloys based on jita prices. Seems fair. However, lets break some things down. I can run 4 sanctums in an hour in my tengu/thanatos combo I can run 4 hordes in an hour in my tengu/thanatos combo So, in bounty space, in one hour i make approx 120 mil, a little less but approximately. In roge drone space, i have to spend the first hour killing, then almost another 40 minutes salvaging, warping sight to sight, docking and unloading. that extra fourty minutes is atleast another 60 mil in bounty space. In addition, if it were apples to apples and i salvaged bounty rats, that fouty minutes of salvaging would give me an extra 40 mil in loot and salvage material. So, its like a compounded deficiency for my effort.
On a final note, Drone sentient spawns, are the worst in the game. I actually loose isk by having them come up. They yeild drone components worth less then normal compounds and alloys, and their salvage is worth less than a single armor plate.
My resolve, drone hordes should be worth 40-43 mil per horde to compensate for the increased salvage time and lack of extras like modules.
Anyone else have thoughts on this.
Move?
Serious note though the sanctums I have ever run have only yeiled 24-30mil(both types, I usually get 24/25 out of ring barring faction spawn an 30 from the other one) so can you tell me where your 28-34 ones are?
Like a lot of things in EVE you either like it hate it or do something else. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
myFORUMalt alts
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.10.20 12:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
move, Even though im bitching, im happy with my corp and our location for what i do in eve. I just wanted to get other peoples ideas and if they feel that drones are inferior as well.
As for the dev post about putting bounties on drones. i support that. Or there is another route to go. Lower the bounties on all the other rats, and make their loot and salvage equal to the approx value of what the drones are now. That would lower the inflation in eve and make loot and salvage more critical than it is now in the bounty rat space. A pro ratter in bounty space doesnt bother salvaging because he makes more just creating more wrecks. |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
194
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Posted - 2011.10.20 12:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
The perceived worthlessness of drone rats and the drone regions made the DRF the pwnwagon it is today. Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
Frozen Eddie Johnson
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2011.10.20 12:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Renan Ruivo wrote:The perceived worthlessness of drone rats and the drone regions made the DRF the pwnwagon it is today.
That's because bots don't care how much isk/hour it is, they just like the 23/7 minerals. |
March rabbit
Ganse Shadow of xXDEATHXx
16
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Posted - 2011.10.20 13:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
to OP: have you ever heard about T2 salvaged materials? You know: when you see Sentient drone you got luck. It can be small luck or it can be great luck.
Let's say: i personally once got 6 capacitor consoles from 1 sentient BS from horde. This is like 120mils. And i'm not one who have had such luck.
Other rogue drone bonus: living in dronelands means you don't need to haul low-value minerals from Jita or mine veldspar to build ships. You get minerals from rogue drones. |
myFORUMalt alts
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2011.10.20 14:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
if you got 120 mil in t2 salvage from one sentient bs, you hit the jackpot. Ive had six, and less then 1 mil in salvage combined. and suggesting that the bonus to the drone region is you dont have to haul low end minerals from empire to null is like looking at a really crappy painting, and sayin, i like this shade of green. Sure there may be a small bonus, but i heard the same thing when the noctis originally came out was going to flood the market with low grade modules, that would be refined and destroy mineral values
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Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
70
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Posted - 2011.10.20 14:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
CCP Spitfire while I thank you guys for posting here, you need to make up your mind about F&I, either THE POSTS SHOULD GO THERE ... or they shouldn't!
As to Drones, I think they should be SALVAGE |
myFORUMalt alts
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2011.10.20 14:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
Apollo Gabriel wrote:CCP Spitfire while I thank you guys for posting here, you need to make up your mind about F&I, either THE POSTS SHOULD GO THERE ... or they shouldn't!
As to Drones, I think they should be SALVAGE
why should drones just be salvage. Again, the first line in the post is, if drones are designed to be inferior, then it makes sense, but if all npc are supposed to be equal, why should they just be salvage
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CCP Spitfire
C C P C C P Alliance
278
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Posted - 2011.10.20 14:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
Apollo Gabriel wrote:CCP Spitfire while I thank you guys for posting here, you need to make up your mind about F&I, either THE POSTS SHOULD GO THERE ... or they shouldn't!
Uhm, good point. Apologies; we have been a little preoccupied today.
CCP Spitfire | Russian Community Coordinator @ccp_spitfire |
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Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
70
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Posted - 2011.10.20 14:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
What do I get when I blow up another person's drones? nothing
Blowing them up should leave parts and pieces, aka salvage.
As to equity with other rats, that's for CCP to figure out a balance. Add more drones, have them swarm, have them hide off overview ... |
Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
70
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Posted - 2011.10.20 14:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
CCP Spitfire wrote:Apollo Gabriel wrote:CCP Spitfire while I thank you guys for posting here, you need to make up your mind about F&I, either THE POSTS SHOULD GO THERE ... or they shouldn't!
Uhm, good point. Apologies; we have been a little preoccupied today.
Sorry to sound like such an ashat.
I get the preoccupation, it's tough losing coworkers, really tough. |
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CCP Spitfire
C C P C C P Alliance
278
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Posted - 2011.10.20 14:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
Apollo Gabriel wrote:CCP Spitfire wrote:Apollo Gabriel wrote:CCP Spitfire while I thank you guys for posting here, you need to make up your mind about F&I, either THE POSTS SHOULD GO THERE ... or they shouldn't!
Uhm, good point. Apologies; we have been a little preoccupied today. Sorry to sound like such an ashat. I get the preoccupation, it's tough losing coworkers, really tough.
You've got nothing to apologize for -- rules are rules, after all.
CCP Spitfire | Russian Community Coordinator @ccp_spitfire |
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myFORUMalt alts
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2011.10.20 14:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
Apollo Gabriel wrote:What do I get when I blow up another person's drones? nothing
Blowing them up should leave parts and pieces, aka salvage.
As to equity with other rats, that's for CCP to figure out a balance. Add more drones, have them swarm, have them hide off overview ...
I really dont see the connection, other than in name, between player drones and npc rogue drones. |
myFORUMalt alts
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2011.10.20 14:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
Apollo Gabriel wrote:CCP Spitfire wrote:Apollo Gabriel wrote:CCP Spitfire while I thank you guys for posting here, you need to make up your mind about F&I, either THE POSTS SHOULD GO THERE ... or they shouldn't!
Uhm, good point. Apologies; we have been a little preoccupied today. Sorry to sound like such an ashat. I get the preoccupation, it's tough losing coworkers, really tough.
whats F&I |
Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
70
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Posted - 2011.10.20 14:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
I confused your thread with the other thread spitfire linked.
Are drones more work than normal belt rats, yes. I think that belt rats are the problem though, they shouldn't pay bounties except in empire, they should be tags instead.
That would make this system more equal, although not likely in the direction you want. |
myFORUMalt alts
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2011.10.20 14:30:00 -
[18] - Quote
Apollo Gabriel wrote:I confused your thread with the other thread spitfire linked.
Are drones more work than normal belt rats, yes. I think that belt rats are the problem though, they shouldn't pay bounties except in empire, they should be tags instead.
That would make this system more equal, although not likely in the direction you want.
the direction i want is just balance. Im not saying i want to make more money per hour of effort, just my hour of effort in drone region should be worth as much as the other npcs. Im all for lowering rat bounties, or other solutions to make things more balanced. Tags would be an awesome solution. or have them drop enough loot to equal 500k-1.85 mil in refined minerals. many solutions, just a post about balancing.
still, whats F&I
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Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
71
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Posted - 2011.10.20 14:51:00 -
[19] - Quote
Features and Ideas |
Sri Bolyn
Disciples of the Void
1
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Posted - 2011.10.20 15:38:00 -
[20] - Quote
Regarding Rogue Drones and their worth, why not:
1) Have a massive one off Rogue Drone Incursion (potentially with several live events).
2) During this incursion Rogue Drones go from a far off menace in the eyes of the Empires to an imminent threat and Concord applies the appropriate bounties.
3) Assuming the drones are defeated (wink wink) they fall back to the Drone regions to assess the related data. The first conclusion they come to is that the material they drop would be better served being processed into more weapons and mods for their own war effort. Now they would have similar drops to "normal rats".
4) This gives CCP the opportunity to change Rogue Drones in a way that makes sense and more importantly will be seen as fun (to some).
5) Appropriate faction loot would have to be developed...Drone mods etc...
Thx for reading |
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gfldex
9
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Posted - 2011.10.20 15:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
CCP Spitfire wrote:Thank you for the feedback. How would you feel about this idea?
So what are the metrics? How much of all minerals comes from drones? If it's more then 5% it's a big can of worms. At the other hand removing a source of mega and zydrine from empire is very welcome in my books. How about making a difference between belt and complex/mission drones?
The biggest problem I see with changing all drones from mins to ISK is that mineral compression was nerfed and replaced with a completely pointless system. If you go for changing all drones to ISK you have to change the Rorqual compression from ore to mins at the same time. In that case I would look at fuel consumption as well. Have a small (in volume) fuel thingy that is made from heavy water and all isotopes. That would give a good boost to ice mining. You can then go and fiddle with rare ice to provide more heavy water. So you get a nice flow of income between 0.0 ice mining and low min mining in empire that goes back to compressed mins that can go back to 0.0 .
Since you can only compress with a rorqual you would give smallish corps a reason to use one in lowsec to compress the mins for 0.0 dwellers. |
SFM Hobb3s
Vanguard Frontiers Intrepid Crossing
2
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Posted - 2011.10.20 17:05:00 -
[22] - Quote
Hm. The ONLY good thing about drone regions is the ability for its resident alliances to build. There's nothing else. Even exploration is broken (drone mag sites require codebreakers hah!!!)
So by taking away the drone goo, this will definitely remove the major source of building materials for these alliances, negating the sole benefit of being in these regions in the first place. And to top it all off, yes, your min prices will go up, so will everything else, making pvp that much more expensive. |
Khan D'Amarr
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2011.10.20 18:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
Sri Bolyn wrote:Regarding Rogue Drones and their worth, why not:
1) Have a massive one off Rogue Drone Incursion (potentially with several live events).
2) During this incursion Rogue Drones go from a far off menace in the eyes of the Empires to an imminent threat and Concord applies the appropriate bounties.
3) Assuming the drones are defeated (wink wink) they fall back to the Drone regions to assess the related data. The first conclusion they come to is that the material they drop would be better served being processed into more weapons and mods for their own war effort. Now they would have similar drops to "normal rats".
4) This gives CCP the opportunity to change Rogue Drones in a way that makes sense and more importantly will be seen as fun (to some).
5) Appropriate faction loot would have to be developed...Drone mods etc...
Thx for reading
Quality idea! |
Mirak Nijoba
Gamers Corner
1
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Posted - 2011.10.20 19:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
Sri Bolyn wrote:Regarding Rogue Drones and their worth, why not:
1) Have a massive one off Rogue Drone Incursion (potentially with several live events).
2) During this incursion Rogue Drones go from a far off menace in the eyes of the Empires to an imminent threat and Concord applies the appropriate bounties.
3) Assuming the drones are defeated (wink wink) they fall back to the Drone regions to assess the related data. The first conclusion they come to is that the material they drop would be better served being processed into more weapons and mods for their own war effort. Now they would have similar drops to "normal rats".
4) This gives CCP the opportunity to change Rogue Drones in a way that makes sense and more importantly will be seen as fun (to some).
5) Appropriate faction loot would have to be developed...Drone mods etc...
Thx for reading
They would still be Drone Sized and at most a Frigate / Fighter Sized Craft - Swarms of them.
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draconothese
Independant Celestial Enterprises Pink Fluffy Pussycats
1
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Posted - 2011.10.20 19:14:00 -
[25] - Quote
to be honest i think drone space needs a nerf even less drops |
Strongo
Absolution Of Darkness Army Of Darkness.
0
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Posted - 2011.10.20 19:21:00 -
[26] - Quote
I would have to say keep rethinking, drones were place their for reason to be different, think you need to look other places to change or improve it some way else. Allow more ore in belts, less to upgrade it's drones. Maybe place NPC, race in their like every were else their is. |
Skullair
Red Bat Inc. Union 0f Revolution
3
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Posted - 2011.10.20 19:52:00 -
[27] - Quote
Well instead of just selling the minrals u can make around 5%+profit building some ships in this game even more for the flavors of the mounth in null 10-15% so over selling ou use the mats to build stuff ur hourly income would roughly go up 10% and if your really smart and sell on weekends u can make 20%.... So use the minrals how there ment to be used and the income is blanced a lot more then first glance look
DRF buys mats ... Builds supers.... Space Jews buy supers at 30% hike of price = good bussniess plan
Tradering = Profting off of people being lazy....
Dont be lazy and you shall make more isk
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uglybass
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2011.10.20 23:23:00 -
[28] - Quote
Only reason I could support this, Is that it MAY have affect on mineral values which are dragging at insurance level. Mineral values werent allways this low, I suppose you could see posts here demanding nerf on drone regions back on those days...Something good turning into something bad doesnt allways require balancing actions.
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zxsteel
Darkness Of Absolution Army Of Darkness.
5
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Posted - 2011.10.21 14:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
May be for the best, but remember you made this space to be different from other area's. Just because one group moved and had plan to use it dont mean you should nerf, it down. |
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CCP Spitfire
C C P C C P Alliance
303
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Posted - 2011.10.21 14:35:00 -
[30] - Quote
Still here, reading feedback and passing it on. Please keep the discussion going.
CCP Spitfire | Russian Community Coordinator @ccp_spitfire |
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