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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
criativa
Zugleich Techniken
64
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Posted - 2013.05.21 02:21:00 -
[61] - Quote
Quote: Imagine how a fleet of 20 miners under control of IS boxer could affect the local market mineral prices,
Do you have any idea of how hard it is to manage 20 mining accounts at the same time?
I would agree with you before the fanfest on Ice harvesting, however after odyssey it'll be very hard for multiboxers to get some spot as the anomalies have little Ice qty and the spawn is set to four hours after the current ones gets depleted. There is also the scenario where they do get a fresh anomaly and harvest it dry, but, again, they will have to wait sit for the next 4 hours or be lucky to find fresh anomalies in close systems. In either case it won't be profitable for multiboxers as long as they can't have a fixed incoming rate.
For Ore harvesting it would be a nightmare to have 20 accounts. Even on skiffs you would have to switch targets at such a rate that it would be impossible for one person to handle it all. If you consider mining in null sec (as the roids are bigger) it will now be too much a risk too because grav sites will be also moved to anomalies, so I don't think people will be dumb enough to risk losing 20 ships in a blink. And if they do, well, better for the market.
Quote: Imagine how a fleet of PvP ships could take down your T3 ship if you didn't have to alt tab all the while or even worse, you have two gangs of tacklers IS boxing to keep your ship jammed/scrammed etc while the rest of the fleet guns you down.
Imagine how a fleet of real players would out-smart and out-maneuver any multiboxer fleet as this [multiboxer] guy can't execute simultaneous mixed strategies decisions at the same rate as a single FC with a single human on each sit of his fleet . If your rage is about not having a way to fight back multiboxers you are seeing things from the wrong perspective: it is very easy for them to kill things, and even easier to get killed. Think about it. If it was an all manned fleet would it be different? Would you survive?
Personally I understand that it seems unfair that someone can replicate keys through many game clients like that, and for any other game I would agree with you, but in EVE it is not just a matter of raw power (mostly) as it would be in WoW where you can AoE entire guilds down with a single key stroke, no, you have to coordinate and change tactics at much faster rates in order to survive. Actually, can anybody here tell me about any successful multiboxer PvPer in EVE? Are there any stories about the multiboxer one who camped a gate solely and could take any incoming fleet? |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1644
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Posted - 2013.05.21 04:06:00 -
[62] - Quote
Hahaha yeah I hope this thread works out for ya. |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2898
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Posted - 2013.05.21 07:12:00 -
[63] - Quote
Ban ISBotters
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1227
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Posted - 2013.05.21 07:20:00 -
[64] - Quote
My view is that this topic has been done to death.
Unless CCP change their mind, ISBoxer would appear to be here to stay. This is not a signature. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9469
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 08:32:00 -
[65] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:My view is that this topic has been done to death.
Unless CCP change their mind, ISBoxer would appear to be here to stay.
1 Kings 12:11
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
671
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Posted - 2013.05.21 10:38:00 -
[66] - Quote
CCP loves alts, as alts bring in the dough. ISBoxer and its virtualization ilk smoothes the handling of alts. Ergo: CCP loves them.
Furthermore .. how much are you willing to wager that the Eve client will at some point natively support virtualization/multiboxing in a manner similar to the 3rd party options. CCP developed a thin client for testing purposes, they are opening up for plex fueled multi-training on single accounts (ie. alt nurseries), mechanics invariably favour 'more is better' as alternatives are often restrictive and they have already crossed the 3rd party bridge when they revamped the fitting interface with an expressed desire to outright mimic 3rd party fitting tools at some point.
Rolling a virtualization client into the main client makes perfect business sense .. hell, they could/should buy one of the companies responsible for such clients if only to save IP fees.
PS: Think about it. Tinfoil accessories not recommended as it interferes with logic/reasoning.
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saltrock0000
Obsessive Compulsive Diasaster
101
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Posted - 2013.05.21 10:39:00 -
[67] - Quote
Clearly OP can only afford to maintain 1 character and is mad at everyone else for being better then him. \'''\<(o_O)>/'''/ |
Shaco LaRusko
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2013.05.21 11:19:00 -
[68] - Quote
Jassmin Joy wrote:Shaco LaRusko wrote:Ya but 20 miners is 20 accounts. You could do far better with 20 real players. The bigger question is does 1 account = 1 player. Could that same 20 account isboxer take down a fleet of 20 equally armed players? Probably not. You mean could a fleet of 20 ships who all follow primes, fire at the same time and dont do stupid **** like jumping gates solo or burning off, beat a group of 20 players that have the ability to do what they want? sure.
True but how do you spread ewar to multiply targets? You cant effeciently. Whats the point of 20 people pointing the same guy? and if you only have 1 or 2 pointers its easy to figure out which and kill them off quickly. |
Jassmin Joy
Fairlight Corp Rooks and Kings
127
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Posted - 2013.05.21 12:33:00 -
[69] - Quote
Obunagawe wrote:Jassmin Joy wrote:Shaco LaRusko wrote:Ya but 20 miners is 20 accounts. You could do far better with 20 real players. The bigger question is does 1 account = 1 player. Could that same 20 account isboxer take down a fleet of 20 equally armed players? Probably not. You mean could a fleet of 20 ships who all follow primes, fire at the same time and dont do stupid **** like jumping gates solo or burning off, beat a group of 20 players that have the ability to do what they want? sure. Could a fleet of 20 players who can manually pilot their ships, control range, individually warp off when taking damage, use ammo types selectively for best range, and run combined-arms fleets w/ logi and ewar and so on defeat an isboxer fleet of all 1 shiptype? Certainly. Good fleet > isboxer fleet > scrubs
There are legitimate ways to work in logistics to isboxer too, takes a bit of messing around but it's workable.
However yes, This is a pretty fair way of putting it. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14757
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 13:28:00 -
[70] - Quote
Ellen Thrace wrote:ISD LackOfFaith wrote:If a click of yours immediately causes a click in 10 clients, that is not automation. With all due respect , that is clearly an automation, simply because its not humanly possible to do that. With all due respect, you are wrong. It's duplication, not automation.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
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Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami Moon Warriors
367
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 13:49:00 -
[71] - Quote
Danni stark wrote:the new thread button should redirect to the search function.
that way we don't have to read waste of time threads like this one.
we ******* know isboxer is fine, ccp have said so in numerous threads.
I knew what this thread was about by reading the title. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
151
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 14:09:00 -
[72] - Quote
Goldiiee wrote:OP you should have started a thread called: 'General Discussion' should have its name changed to 'For Trolls And Unhelpful Responses'. )
I fully endorse this product and/or service.
Quote:Is using IsBoxer to Cloak all your ships at the same time so you can AFK in 0.0 against the Laws of the Internets?!
I HEARTILY endorse this product and/or service.
.......I find your IDS LackOfFaith disturbing........
Also:
Why hasn't anyone linked Zkeh Kromtor yet?
Quote: I would agree with you before the fanfest on Ice harvesting, however after odyssey it'll be very hard for multiboxers to get some spot as the anomalies have little Ice qty and the spawn is set to four hours after the current ones gets depleted. There is also the scenario where they do get a fresh anomaly and harvest it dry, but, again, they will have to wait sit for the next 4 hours or be lucky to find fresh anomalies in close systems. In either case it won't be profitable for multiboxers as long as they can't have a fixed incoming rate.
Mine the ice, mine ore while waiting for ice, mine the ice, etc. Part of me wants to have 20 accounts all mining in tandem, then "accidentally" have all of them say the exact same thing at the exact same time in local. or in a trade hub.
I wonder what would happen if I went to Jita and spammed scams with 20 accounts at the same time......would anyone notice?
Quote:For Ore harvesting it would be a nightmare to have 20 accounts. Even on skiffs you would have to switch targets at such a rate that it would be impossible for one person to handle it all. If you consider mining in null sec (as the roids are bigger) it will now be too much a risk too because grav sites will be also moved to anomalies, so I don't think people will be dumb enough to risk losing 20 ships in a blink. And if they do, well, better for the market.
keep an eye on local.
pfft.....that's hilarious. you K-spacers are cute with your local and all.
Keep a Cov Ops with probes on alert for new signatures, and you're golden. Ships will be lost, it's as much a part of Wspa--er, EVE as anything else.
But seriously?
Zhek Kromtor. |
Rosewalker
Khumaak Flying Circus
18
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Posted - 2013.05.21 16:08:00 -
[73] - Quote
Himnos Altar wrote: I wonder what would happen if I went to Jita and spammed scams with 20 accounts at the same time......would anyone notice?
Chribba would
The Nosy Gamer - Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength - Eric Hoffer |
Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
65
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Posted - 2013.05.21 16:56:00 -
[74] - Quote
Either way I just don't care.... |
ian papabear
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
80
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 17:05:00 -
[75] - Quote
you are a big crybaby, crying about something that doesnt even affect you. let the gm's deal with this issue, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNReV76PtqM |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1793
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 18:27:00 -
[76] - Quote
Dub Step wrote:It's bullshit for them to claim this is somehow OK, but multiple accounts mean more money for CCP so don't expect them to care about it.
Roime wrote:Ban ISBotters
Give it up. CCP makes the rules. CCP says you're wrong. It's time to stop spitting into the wind - it's futile, it's messy, and it won't do anything good for you. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
3986
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 18:28:00 -
[77] - Quote
How is this thread still not locked?
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami
368
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 19:19:00 -
[78] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:FFs. How can you people not see this? It's not illegal, and it shouldn't be. The guy in that tutorial pays for 7 accounts. He boasts about how much he makes ratting with Isoboxer, but if you want to tell what he really earns divide it by seven. That's right... he is earning exactly the same as you. If he wants 7 times the income at 7 times the cost, then who cares? He's paying CCP for it after all, and you could do the same with your 1 account by buying plex. Multiboxers don't affect you in any way. Just get on with your sad stupid existences and ignore them like everyone else. Ellen Thrace wrote:ISD LackOfFaith wrote:If a click of yours immediately causes a click in 10 clients, that is not automation. With all due respect , that is clearly an automation, simply because its not humanly possible to do that. Actually... clicking isn't possible at all in Eve without external automating software. Those softwares are called drivers, and you can't operate a modern computer without them. Technically you can't operate Eve at all without the influence of external non-client "automating" (under your definition) software. I certainly don't see you typing out commands for your Eve in binary. The EULA is there to protect CCP, so that they can say what they will and wont allow. CCP has said they will allow multiboxers and that's that.
Then he should be doing 7x the work.
He isn't. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami
368
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 19:31:00 -
[79] - Quote
Mortimer Civeri wrote:Ellen Thrace wrote:ISD LackOfFaith wrote:If a click of yours immediately causes a click in 10 clients, that is not automation. With all due respect , that is clearly an automation, simply because its not humanly possible to do that. http://i.imgur.com/egFbwL5.jpg Game set and match. All the multiboxing software does is this exact same thing except with software rather than dowels, tape and nails, it is not automation, it is taking an input and sending it to multiple computers. You know what just google "y adapter" and that is what the software does. or THIS
So uhm, your take is that a non motorized robot is not automation?
1=1 1+1 >1
Just a simple bit of math. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami
368
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 19:34:00 -
[80] - Quote
dark heartt wrote:Othran wrote: Snipped deleted off topic post. -- ISD LackOfFaith
Personally I've never used the s/w but it clearly gives an advantage over even keyboard/mouse macros.
CCP should have dealt with it years ago but they didn't and what are they supposed to do now - ban a sizable chunk of their subscribers?
Clearly alts are a major part of CCP's business plan (and have been for a LONG time) or we wouldn't be getting dual training, so expecting CCP to ban people using "alt management" software which they have used for years is naive to say the least.
In an ideal world ISBoxer would be banned. Eve isn't ideal so it isn't banned. How? How does it give an advantage? It's no different to having a physical setup that allows you to run a mouse on two computers.
Well, for 1) It gives an advantage of doing less work for more results. 2) it IS different. 1 simple explanation is that a pure mechanical rig is not enforcable by CCP. Multiboxing software is.
Also, using multiple clients is encourages sure, but that has nothing to do with CCP endorsing purchasing 3rd party software to help with that, and in fact also touch on the fact they do not allow 3rd party software to assist in your gameplay!
But we cannot make CCP enforce their own rules, so we complain about it. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
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Danni stark
324
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 19:37:00 -
[81] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:more trolling. get back to work murk.
your trolling was just as bad the first time this came up, and then got locked with a comment about isboxer being fine. just, quit while you have some dignity. Ice Mining Skill Plan. |
Klymer
Hedion University Amarr Empire
253
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 19:52:00 -
[82] - Quote
OP if you spot someone you think is doing something against the EULA then petition it instead of whining on the forums. |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2902
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 19:53:00 -
[83] - Quote
ISBotters broke EVE
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Lexar Mundi
DYNAMIC INTERVENTION ORPHANS OF EVE
45
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 20:00:00 -
[84] - Quote
I'm not sure why so many people get so upset over multiboxers...
Is it the lack of money to run more than 1 or 2 accounts? The lack of knowledge on how to use the multibox programs?
To ban or make these things against the rules would be against any game creators best interest. Every game I play has multiboxing and the people who complain about it.
The thing is this.
Multiboxer has probably 6+ accounts I have seen some with 24 accounts
Non-Multiboxers maybe have 1 or 2 accounts
Do the math and see what side CCP will choose. |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami
368
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 20:05:00 -
[85] - Quote
criativa wrote:Quote: Imagine how a fleet of 20 miners under control of IS boxer could affect the local market mineral prices,
Do you have any idea of how hard it is to manage 20 mining accounts at the same time? I would agree with you before the fanfest on Ice harvesting, however after odyssey it'll be very hard for multiboxers to get some spot as the anomalies have little Ice qty and the spawn is set to four hours after the current ones gets depleted. There is also the scenario where they do get a fresh anomaly and harvest it dry, but, again, they will have to wait sit for the next 4 hours or be lucky to find fresh anomalies in close systems. In either case it won't be profitable for multiboxers as long as they can't have a fixed incoming rate. For Ore harvesting it would be a nightmare to have 20 accounts. Even on skiffs you would have to switch targets at such a rate that it would be impossible for one person to handle it all. If you consider mining in null sec (as the roids are bigger) it will now be too much a risk too because grav sites will be also moved to anomalies, so I don't think people will be dumb enough to risk losing 20 ships in a blink. And if they do, well, better for the market. Quote: Imagine how a fleet of PvP ships could take down your T3 ship if you didn't have to alt tab all the while or even worse, you have two gangs of tacklers IS boxing to keep your ship jammed/scrammed etc while the rest of the fleet guns you down.
Imagine how a fleet of real players would out-smart and out-maneuver any multiboxer fleet as this [multiboxer] guy can't execute simultaneous mixed strategies decisions at the same rate as a single FC with a single human on each sit of his fleet . If your rage is about not having a way to fight back multiboxers you are seeing things from the wrong perspective: it is very easy for them to kill things, and even easier to get killed. Think about it. If it was an all manned fleet would it be different? Would you survive? Personally I understand that it seems unfair that someone can replicate keys through many game clients like that, and for any other game I would agree with you, but in EVE it is not just a matter of raw power (mostly) as it would be in WoW where you can AoE entire guilds down with a single key stroke, no, you have to coordinate and change tactics at much faster rates in order to survive. Actually, can anybody here tell me about any successful multiboxer PvPer in EVE? Are there any stories about the multiboxer one who camped a gate solely and could take any incoming fleet?
You're kidding right? 20 skiffs with hobgoblin IIs would easily clear out the rats in a highsec anom. Set 1 main ship as drone assist and go to town. Hell my rookie miner pilot has not even 3m sp and is already over 30k ehp with half fitted stuff on a t1 barge.
And yes, there is a youtube video (complete with thread here in GD) from 1 week ago of a guy using isboxer to single play an incursion. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami
368
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 20:08:00 -
[86] - Quote
Shaco LaRusko wrote:Jassmin Joy wrote:Shaco LaRusko wrote:Ya but 20 miners is 20 accounts. You could do far better with 20 real players. The bigger question is does 1 account = 1 player. Could that same 20 account isboxer take down a fleet of 20 equally armed players? Probably not. You mean could a fleet of 20 ships who all follow primes, fire at the same time and dont do stupid **** like jumping gates solo or burning off, beat a group of 20 players that have the ability to do what they want? sure. True but how do you spread ewar to multiply targets? You cant effeciently. Whats the point of 20 people pointing the same guy? and if you only have 1 or 2 pointers its easy to figure out which and kill them off quickly.
Set your specific ewar to same hotkey, and have different ships equip different ewar? Not hard to figure out. You don't need a fleet armed with target painters, maybe just 1 or 2 ships. Same with TDs, WDs, Webs, sensor damps, etc.
Any maintarget is locked down hardcore. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami
368
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 20:09:00 -
[87] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Ellen Thrace wrote:ISD LackOfFaith wrote:If a click of yours immediately causes a click in 10 clients, that is not automation. With all due respect , that is clearly an automation, simply because its not humanly possible to do that. With all due respect, you are wrong. It's duplication, not automation.
That doesn't make it different. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami
368
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 20:11:00 -
[88] - Quote
Danni stark wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:more trolling. get back to work murk. your trolling was just as bad the first time this came up, and then got locked with a comment about isboxer being fine. just, quit while you have some dignity.
It's a valid discussion. And you are not contributing. So I guess it isn't me who is trolling. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
Danni stark
325
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 20:15:00 -
[89] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:Danni stark wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:more trolling. get back to work murk. your trolling was just as bad the first time this came up, and then got locked with a comment about isboxer being fine. just, quit while you have some dignity. It's a valid discussion. And you are not contributing. So I guess it isn't me who is trolling.
when ccp have already said your position is wrong, it's not a discussion it's a redundant thread. this thread is only contributing to spam and wasted space. Ice Mining Skill Plan. |
Cambarus
Aliastra Gallente Federation
323
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 20:24:00 -
[90] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:Mag's wrote:Ellen Thrace wrote:ISD LackOfFaith wrote:If a click of yours immediately causes a click in 10 clients, that is not automation. With all due respect , that is clearly an automation, simply because its not humanly possible to do that. With all due respect, you are wrong. It's duplication, not automation. That doesn't make it different. It kind of does...
Having used ISBoxer a fair amount in the past I'll throw my 2 cents in here:
Cent # 1)Running multiple clients is a lot harder than running one, even with ISBoxer. Back when incursions first came out I was running ISBoxed tengus to clear vanguards. I soon changed over to a lone vindi and a pair of basilisks, without boxing them, just because it was easier and the difference in performance was surprisingly small. Even now if I had to multibox, I'd do it manually for anything under 6-7 accounts, because it's just easier.
Cent # 2) If you've never used ISBoxer or some other variation of it, please don't theorycraft and tell everyone how easy/simple it is to run a pvp fleet with it. Literally the only upside to having used it in the past for me was it got me to the point where I didn't spend so much time on each aspect of an engagement (watching the health bars, getting into orbit, finding warpouts, keeping an eye on everyone on the field etc) because multiboxing forces you do divide your attention in so many ways it's insane.
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