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The Bear08
Ancient Malevolence Rage Alliance
9
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Posted - 2011.10.20 18:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Good evening,
I am asking this question having just tackled a White Noise Obelisk on a lowsec gate. It had a Vaga and a Tengu escorting it and there were 4 of us so we took the gateguns and engaged the Vaga whilst pointing the freighter. Once the Vaga was down we turned our efforts to the Obelisk since the Tengu was doing pitiful DPS. I didn't actually see the self destruct message pop up but the pilot must have initiated it almost as soon as he was tackled him. Needless to say, he self destructed whilst in low structure
I feel that if a ship is tackled, it should not be able to initiate the self destruct procedure. I am aware that there would have to be a slight change in mechanics in order to stop griefer's holding down ships for indefinite periods of time.As it is now, if the pilot wishes to escape then they can eject and warp. Perhaps having a self destruct mechanism on capsule's only would be a possible solution.
What do you think? |
SC0T1SH WARRIOR
Zero For 0wned
25
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Posted - 2011.10.20 18:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
Didn't get the kill? UMad?
The thing is, its all in prep, you need to take into consideration that it is a possibility and a perfectly viable one at that.
It is his ship, if he wants to SD himself then there should be no reason why you holding him there and not killing him fast enough should stop that. Next time you go to tackle something like that, bring more DPS to blow it before the timer, or when its low enough, and you are confident you have everywhere covered (you took out his escort) let him warp off, this cancels the timer and you can hope you will be faster than him and you know where he is warping to, and if you catch him again, you should have done enough damage for the timer to mean nothing if he starts it again.
look at all Sci-fi movies, when **** hits the fan, self destruct the ship and run to the escape pod. Dont mind me, -ájust touching your stuff. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
115
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Posted - 2011.10.20 18:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
The entire point of self-destructing during battle is to deny the attacker loot and a killmail. Just take solace in the fact that you have relieved White Noise of an Obelisk filled with god-knows-what. "Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate
5
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Posted - 2011.10.20 18:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
I would be ok with it if they didn't get an insurance payout when self destructing, but yeah as it is now the mechanic is a little annoying Is sexy time? |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2011.10.20 22:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
1. Known fact, ship self destruct is 2 minutes
2. Known fact, "fly what you can afford" -- slighty off topic but it applies to the idea "you have knowledge of the situation at hand, therefore you are responsible for the resulting actions"
3. According to 1, you have 2 minutes to destroy a ship. According to 2, you have knowledge of 1 and are responsible to counter 1. That means, you either plan to bring WTFBBQFACEPUNCH!!!11!!! DPS or you loose the fight.
No one is responcible or obligated to provide you killmails. You failed to target the freighter by focusing on the Vagabond and the freighter pilot did the first thing he deemed necessary, that is to prevent the loot from falling into enemy hands. And **** you off in the process, cause killmails are so highly prized but tears are worth more. If you want the freighter killmail, then you should aim for the freighter but since you failed and shot the Vagabond then you are at fault for making a bad decision. Don't forget that in EVE, there are consequences to your actions and you choose poorly. |
Jude Lloyd
Heretic Army
150
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 23:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Aqriue wrote:1. Known fact, ship self destruct is 2 minutes
2. Known fact, "fly what you can afford" -- slighty off topic but it applies to the idea "you have knowledge of the situation at hand, therefore you are responsible for the resulting actions"
3. According to 1, you have 2 minutes to destroy a ship. According to 2, you have knowledge of 1 and are responsible to counter 1. That means, you either plan to bring WTFBBQFACEPUNCH!!!11!!! DPS or you loose the fight.
No one is responcible or obligated to provide you killmails. You failed to target the freighter by focusing on the Vagabond and the freighter pilot did the first thing he deemed necessary, that is to prevent the loot from falling into enemy hands. And **** you off in the process, cause killmails are so highly prized but tears are worth more. If you want the freighter killmail, then you should aim for the freighter but since you failed and shot the Vagabond then you are at fault for making a bad decision. Don't forget that in EVE, there are consequences to your actions and you choose poorly.
lose* Heretic Army CEO Host of Frigfry Fridays
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Dynast
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
10
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Posted - 2011.10.20 23:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
Aqriue wrote:No one is responcible or obligated to provide you killmails. You failed to target the freighter by focusing on the Vagabond and the freighter pilot did the first thing he deemed necessary, that is to prevent the loot from falling into enemy hands. And **** you off in the process, cause killmails are so highly prized but tears are worth more. If you want the freighter killmail, then you should aim for the freighter but since you failed and shot the Vagabond then you are at fault for making a bad decision. Don't forget that in EVE, there are consequences to your actions and you choose poorly. This, pretty much. If you want mechanics added to grant you your "fair" killmail, perhaps you'd like some mechanics added as well that only allow "fair" fights? That'd be awfully silly, though. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
149
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Posted - 2011.10.21 00:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
With the coming end of the logoffski, I think we'll see supercapitals being self-destructed to deny killmails when things hit the fan. I recently had a proposal thread in the Assembly Hall to have self-destructs generate killmails for this very reason. Killmails are an integral part of how people gauge success in Eve. CCP has now confirmed my stance:
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2922
Quote:Killmails are great. They serve as reminders of good fights (or dubious mistakes). They let you measure losses inflicted on your enemy in cold hard ISK. They also demonstrate some interesting choices in ship fitting, or cargo-movement attempts. If you're so inclined, they provide a way to track your kill/death ratio, and measure it against your peers...
In other words, killmails as they exist today are working as intended. Now they plan on adding lost implants to the killmail system. It's high time self-destructions get killmails as well, to create a clearer picture for all the reasons listed by CCP Masterplan. |
Super Chair
Hell's Revenge
17
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Posted - 2011.10.21 00:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
Griefing would be taken to a whole new level if you could point someone and hold them for as long as you'd like if they couldn't self destruct. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
149
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Posted - 2011.10.21 01:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
Super Chair wrote:Griefing would be taken to a whole new level if you could point someone and hold them for as long as you'd like if they couldn't self destruct. Get aggression, point, go afk. Post logs later.
Yeah, bad idea. |
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mxzf
Shovel Bros
32
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Posted - 2011.10.21 01:38:00 -
[11] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Super Chair wrote:Griefing would be taken to a whole new level if you could point someone and hold them for as long as you'd like if they couldn't self destruct. Get aggression, point, go afk. Post logs later. Yeah, bad idea.
lol, if someone were to point me and go AFK, I'll get together everyone I know to gank the sucker. Either that or fly out of range of the point. So, yeah, point me and AFK, I promise I won't self destruct :p |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
150
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Posted - 2011.10.21 02:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
mxzf wrote:lol, if someone were to point me and go AFK, I'll get together everyone I know to gank the sucker. Either that or fly out of range of the point. So, yeah, point me and AFK, I promise I won't self destruct :p If you're able to put together a group to gank them, you probably aren't going to be suckered into getting aggression in the first place.
Flying out of range wouldn't be an option because this would be done using a ship that could pace you, and would probably put webs on you.
It's not something you could do where they could hit a gate or station, so you're largely limited to belts and deadspace. |
Mekhana
Spiritus Draconis
205
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Posted - 2011.10.21 04:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
Yes but not a ship under aggression timer. I wish. |
Bad Messenger
draketrain
7
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Posted - 2011.10.21 05:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
Without self destruct you could grief people by holding pod tackled for ever. |
Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
3
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Posted - 2011.10.21 09:09:00 -
[15] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:Without self destruct you could grief people by holding pod tackled for ever.
I think I once held Ankh's pod tackled well over an hour. I quess she didnt know that self-destruct existed. I was, of course, griefing her on purpose if you took her word for it...
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March rabbit
Ganse Shadow of xXDEATHXx
17
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Posted - 2011.10.21 10:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
The Bear08 wrote:What do you think? grow some balls and engage real targets?
sorry but you asked
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Freighter Kate
Space Pods Inc
1
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Posted - 2011.10.21 16:10:00 -
[17] - Quote
Why not? If you're in your car and surrounded by cops, should you not be allowed to shoot back? If you had a bomb, should you not be allowed to detonate it?
Make a reasonable argument and we'll talk. Just stamping your foot because you lost out on a killmail is just embarassing (for you). |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
172
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Posted - 2011.10.21 18:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
you saved on ammo and still got the loot
killmails are worthless. |
Wylee Coyote
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
18
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Posted - 2011.10.21 19:00:00 -
[19] - Quote
"Should a tackled ship be able to self destruct?" - Yes, it's a final act of defiance. |
Dark Pangolin
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
12
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Posted - 2011.10.21 19:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
Now what would be nice is if self destruct did damage to other ships...like a smart-bomb...but BIGGER...SO MUCH BIGGER! |
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Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
76
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Posted - 2011.10.21 19:26:00 -
[21] - Quote
Dark Pangolin wrote:Now what would be nice is if self destruct did damage to other ships...like a smart-bomb...but BIGGER...SO MUCH BIGGER!
^this |
The Bear08
Ancient Malevolence Rage Alliance
9
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Posted - 2011.10.21 19:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:The Bear08 wrote:What do you think? grow some balls and engage real targets? sorry but you asked
I'll just let that freighter pass through next time.
Also, I've popped a fair few of you guys recently,so many in fact that you dropped a Nyx on us when we had 3 BC and a Loki. Or don't you guys count as real targets? |
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
76
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Posted - 2011.10.21 19:42:00 -
[23] - Quote
The Bear08 wrote:March rabbit wrote:The Bear08 wrote:What do you think? grow some balls and engage real targets? sorry but you asked I'll just let that freighter pass through next time. Also, I've popped a fair few of you guys recently,so many in fact that you dropped a Nyx on us when we had 3 BC and a Loki. Or don't you guys count as real targets?
You should self destruct your bcs. |
The Bear08
Ancient Malevolence Rage Alliance
9
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Posted - 2011.10.21 19:54:00 -
[24] - Quote
I actually escaped somehow... |
Jita Shopper86
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.24 06:50:00 -
[25] - Quote
The Bear08 wrote:Good evening, I am asking this question having just tackled a White Noise Obelisk on a lowsec gate. It had a Vaga and a Tengu escorting it and there were 4 of us so we took the gateguns and engaged the Vaga whilst pointing the freighter. Once the Vaga was down we turned our efforts to the Obelisk since the Tengu was doing pitiful DPS. I didn't actually see the self destruct message pop up but the pilot must have initiated it almost as soon as he was tackled him. Needless to say, he self destructed whilst in low structure I feel that if a ship is tackled, it should not be able to initiate the self destruct procedure. I am aware that there would have to be a slight change in mechanics in order to stop griefer's holding down ships for indefinite periods of time.As it is now, if the pilot wishes to escape then they can eject and warp. Perhaps having a self destruct mechanism on capsule's only would be a possible solution. What do you think? Ppl self-destruct b/c they're chicken and don't want to harm their kill efficiency. Pretty lame. Yeah sure, let them self-destruct but also generate a killmail to whoever did top damage. Easiest solution.
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March rabbit
Ganse Shadow of xXDEATHXx
25
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Posted - 2011.10.24 09:28:00 -
[26] - Quote
The Bear08 wrote:March rabbit wrote:The Bear08 wrote:What do you think? grow some balls and engage real targets? sorry but you asked I'll just let that freighter pass through next time. Also, I've popped a fair few of you guys recently,so many in fact that you dropped a Nyx on us when we had 3 BC and a Loki. Or don't you guys count as real targets? me is only 1 person and i wasn't killed for quite some time.... And i haven't nyx (yet).
So i have no ideas who were that guys you killed
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eatsbabies cienfuegos
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2011.10.25 06:39:00 -
[27] - Quote
yes |
Lemok Sonji
Little Miss Duck
2
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Posted - 2011.10.25 06:53:00 -
[28] - Quote
Hey, even on star-trek they tried to self-destruct the enterprise several times. If they can do that to scam for insurance money or "screw you, you don't this ship!" move, so why shouldn't an EvE pilot?
Its a legit move. |
Joshua Aivoras
Tech IV Industries
6
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Posted - 2011.10.25 08:03:00 -
[29] - Quote
Dynast wrote: This, pretty much. If you want mechanics added to grant you your "fair" killmail, perhaps you'd like some mechanics added as well that only allow "fair" fights? That'd be awfully silly, though.
*Expansion notes for winter-
any fleet can only have one Capital in system at a time
lul
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Christine Peeveepeeski
T.R.I.A.D
24
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Posted - 2011.10.25 14:09:00 -
[30] - Quote
The Bear08 wrote:Good evening, I am asking this question having just tackled a White Noise Obelisk on a lowsec gate. It had a Vaga and a Tengu escorting it and there were 4 of us so we took the gateguns and engaged the Vaga whilst pointing the freighter. Once the Vaga was down we turned our efforts to the Obelisk since the Tengu was doing pitiful DPS. I didn't actually see the self destruct message pop up but the pilot must have initiated it almost as soon as he was tackled him. Needless to say, he self destructed whilst in low structure I feel that if a ship is tackled, it should not be able to initiate the self destruct procedure. I am aware that there would have to be a slight change in mechanics in order to stop griefer's holding down ships for indefinite periods of time.As it is now, if the pilot wishes to escape then they can eject and warp. Perhaps having a self destruct mechanism on capsule's only would be a possible solution. What do you think?
I think you killed it, and he did you a favour by expediting the process...................
Was the reason in attacking him not for him to lose his ship? |
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