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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 82 post(s) |
Niding
Polaris Project Curatores Veritatis Alliance
31
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Posted - 2013.06.25 09:58:00 -
[811] - Quote
I appriciate the need for change of the game as things are updated, be it client or ingame mechanics.
I have never complained about changes to mechanics that has affected me and the time I spent ingame, cause for the most part it makes sense. Plus "mechanics" doesnt change the CORE feeling/hands-on execution of the game. Shipchanges and sov mechanics needs to be tweaked as it becomes apparent the "old" one is outdated vs the realities ingame. When titans and supercarriers where changed, it affected ships I had spent many months to aquire. But it was required changes as the profilication of said ships where making them "gamebreaking".
So why do I moan about direct client changes? Cause it changes the framework of physical movement comfort. In your workplace you have Human Resource Managment (HRM) looking at how to make processes more efficient and "human" friendly. With the Unified Inventory change it LOOKED much better, but the actual execution of it nullified/ruined PLAYSTYLES due to the HRM of it. Slow, ackward and "clunky". It actually required a 6 months break and a CHANGE in my playstyle for me to appriciate the new Unified Inventory. Now I like the system, but Im not sure if a forced change in playstyle was intended to be required for players to accept the new system.
Same goes for this new launcher. Its "attacking" the HRM part of the game. Like Unified Inventory it LOOKS nice, but it makes core processes slower for multiaccounting, and the only "change" in playstyle that will end up making it acceptable is to log on fewer accounts or less frequently. The problem with this is that It might make x amount of people ask themselves; "why do I even have this many accounts when I no longer can be bothered logging them on like I used to?".
You can hope that the strong attachment players have to their accounts/characters will stop most from taking drastic measures, but on the flipside selling characters will net you xx billions on the Bazaar. You will have all the isk you need to pay for the toys for your remaining 1 account with 3 characters on etc.
The reason why I keep harping on about this is that I dont get the impression you "get it" with regards to the core HRM issue. Its comparable to these detailed things like at the workplace where you change the chair at your workplace. Your old chair was perfect egronomically for the work you do and the form of your desk, but your boss decides to swap your chair. It doesnt affect the rules of the work, but changes the core framework.
Im going to extreme detail mapping it out, but I somehow get the sense that many DEVS just doesnt play the game as much as the costumers to see the longterm effects for core changes. Ofcourse that makes sense, since DEVS should be busy programming this game You then are dependant on feedback from players on SISI, and if said player advice is ignored (unintentionally or not) then you WILL get these kinds of reactions. |
Par'Gellen
261
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Posted - 2013.06.25 12:23:00 -
[812] - Quote
Alphea Abbra wrote:I actually wonGÇÖt berate you for not rushing out the fixes. I will berate you for rushing out a launcher with a number of issues, and then using the patience excuse for not rushing out the fixes. To me, it does seem like CCP learns just enough about QA after each screw-up to slow down fixes, but not enough for it to last until the next major screw-up. When I called you a liar before, it was for the combination that CCP has done these screw-ups before and afterwards claimed that GÇ£we have learned; your voices were heard; we will improveGÇ¥ GÇô and that for a long time you did avoid engaging with the critics of design issues, while still being active about bugs, and yet promising to make improvements for all. The first part of that is still an issue, and IGÇÖm not seeing the promised results of any learning. These few sentences sum up the core of my problem with CCP and their QA process in general regarding new features. Well said.
CCP, I understand that "To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto... |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
250
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Posted - 2013.06.26 00:22:00 -
[813] - Quote
Oraac Ensor wrote:Oraac Ensor wrote:Once again, the patch installation fails because it can't update the launcher, the repair tool says all launcher files are missing and it can't install them afresh.
Yet I have a working launcher!!!
This is just too bizarre for words. And again . . . This is getting tedious.
CCP Atropos wrote:For the record, you can still view the old EVE Launcher landing page here. Not on my screen. There are random bits of the old launcher screen scattered to the four corners of my monitor with a great expanse of black nothingness in the middle and no launching function whatsoever. And what's the point of just being able to look at it, anyway?
P.S. I'm still waiting for the Eve-mail you led me to expect. |
Salpun
Paramount Commerce
511
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Posted - 2013.06.26 01:29:00 -
[814] - Quote
I am getting timed out trying to log in to the server. With a new launcher it kicks over to the old log in screen and a logging in failed message shows up "
Could not connect to the specified address. Odds are that you have not established an internet connection, the server isn't running, or the server address or port number was wrong."
Its not a launcher issue but I am getting status and server unknown return and having to wait for the info to show up so logging in will finish up. then the token times out some times. This just started over the last two days. |
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
629
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Posted - 2013.06.26 09:06:00 -
[815] - Quote
CCP Atropos wrote: With the release of Dust 514, and the need for more than one product to be able to log into the EVE Universe, we evolved our login mechanics to rely upon industry standard systems and libraries (OAuth) rather than our own proprietary libraries. Since the EVE Launcher had an embedded browser already, it wasn't a great leap to combine the two to allow OAuth based logons in the EVE Launcher, allowing us to clean up a layer of our networking stack (ie: reduce code complexity and maintenance in our own libraries) and move to single logon methodology across all our products.
I think that you can just concentrate on making the launcher work with EVE, and not be concerned about DUST. By all accounts it is falling on its ass and may not be worth worrying about for much longer. |
Par'Gellen
262
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Posted - 2013.06.26 12:46:00 -
[816] - Quote
Rommiee wrote:CCP Atropos wrote: With the release of Dust 514, and the need for more than one product to be able to log into the EVE Universe, we evolved our login mechanics to rely upon industry standard systems and libraries (OAuth) rather than our own proprietary libraries. Since the EVE Launcher had an embedded browser already, it wasn't a great leap to combine the two to allow OAuth based logons in the EVE Launcher, allowing us to clean up a layer of our networking stack (ie: reduce code complexity and maintenance in our own libraries) and move to single logon methodology across all our products.
I think that you can just concentrate on making the launcher work with EVE, and not be concerned about DUST. By all accounts it is falling on its ass and may not be worth worrying about for much longer. I agree. This is what they get for making it PS3 only. Serves them right.
CCP, lets focus on PC Internet Spaceships (like Hilmar promised) and forget about this time wasting console garbage. Especially when it affects things that are directly related to said PC Internet Spaceships (like the login process).
*sigh* It's like watching a bad Benny Hill episode... CCP, I understand that "To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto... |
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CCP Atropos
C C P C C P Alliance
375
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Posted - 2013.06.26 13:37:00 -
[817] - Quote
Oraac Ensor wrote:CCP Atropos wrote:For the record, you can still view the old EVE Launcher landing page here. Not on my screen. There are random bits of the old launcher screen scattered to the four corners of my monitor with a great expanse of black nothingness in the middle and no launching function whatsoever. And what's the point of just being able to look at it, anyway? P.S. I'm still waiting for the Eve-mail you led me to expect. Well, yea, you're viewing a webpage designed for the smaller EVE Launcher window size in what I imagine is a full screen browser, so of course it's going to be of an odd ratio/perspective.
As for the EVEMail, I don't know the dispatch date; it will go out as part of a general player base survey that we run every year, I believe. Product Owner, EVE Launcher | Team Special Circumstances |
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Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
630
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Posted - 2013.06.26 14:32:00 -
[818] - Quote
Par'Gellen wrote:*sigh* It's like watching a bad Benny Hill episode...
LOL, yeah....but nowhere near as funny. At least that was meant to be a disaster. |
Smoking Blunts
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
606
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Posted - 2013.06.26 22:38:00 -
[819] - Quote
CCP Atropos wrote:Oraac Ensor wrote:CCP Atropos wrote:For the record, you can still view the old EVE Launcher landing page here. Not on my screen. There are random bits of the old launcher screen scattered to the four corners of my monitor with a great expanse of black nothingness in the middle and no launching function whatsoever. And what's the point of just being able to look at it, anyway? P.S. I'm still waiting for the Eve-mail you led me to expect. Well, yea, you're viewing a webpage designed for the smaller EVE Launcher window size in what I imagine is a full screen browser, so of course it's going to be of an odd ratio/perspective. As for the EVEMail, I don't know the dispatch date; it will go out as part of a general player base survey that we run every year, I believe.
how do you rate this expansion..blar blar.... this survey that is just trash?
how about asking multiboxers directly what they want from a launcher, like you said you were doing in response to my past posts?
are you that bothered that most answers will be to get away from your current POS launcher that you wont actually do this? OMG when can i get a pic here
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Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
630
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Posted - 2013.07.01 11:08:00 -
[820] - Quote
Any updates?
Or is the GÇ£move the thread somewhere that is difficult to find and people will forget about itGÇ¥ thing working for you ?
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Balder Verdandi
Czerka. WHY so Seri0Us
171
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Posted - 2013.07.01 21:32:00 -
[821] - Quote
Rommiee wrote:Any updates?
Or is the GÇ£move the thread somewhere that is difficult to find and people will forget about itGÇ¥ thing working for you ?
Sadly, expect this more than any worthwhile updates ...... Long live the failure of "Unified Inventory"! Player Owned Station fix dated back to 2006!
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CCP Atropos
C C P C C P Alliance
377
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Posted - 2013.07.02 10:10:00 -
[822] - Quote
Balder Verdandi wrote:Rommiee wrote:Any updates?
Or is the GÇ£move the thread somewhere that is difficult to find and people will forget about itGÇ¥ thing working for you ?
Sadly, expect this more than any worthwhile updates ...... I'm watching this thread, so it's not disappeared; I simply don't have anything to update you with. Product Owner, EVE Launcher | Team Special Circumstances |
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Par'Gellen
262
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Posted - 2013.07.02 12:30:00 -
[823] - Quote
CCP Atropos wrote:I'm watching this thread, so it's not disappeared; I simply don't have anything to update you with. No progress at all? CCP, I understand that "To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto... |
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
291
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Posted - 2013.07.02 13:50:00 -
[824] - Quote
Par'Gellen wrote:CCP Atropos wrote:I'm watching this thread, so it's not disappeared; I simply don't have anything to update you with. No progress at all? Well, it could seem that the changes that led to my new direction was temporary.
Atropos can your latest post be interpreted in any other way than a statement that the work is essentially done? I find it relevant to know if you at least meant it to be interpreted otherwise.
I was still waiting for the continuation of our civil discourse. |
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CCP Atropos
C C P C C P Alliance
377
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Posted - 2013.07.02 14:07:00 -
[825] - Quote
Par'Gellen wrote:CCP Atropos wrote:I'm watching this thread, so it's not disappeared; I simply don't have anything to update you with. No progress at all? Nothing that I want to talk about, no.
Alphea Abbra wrote:Par'Gellen wrote:CCP Atropos wrote:I'm watching this thread, so it's not disappeared; I simply don't have anything to update you with. No progress at all? Well, it could seem that the changes that led to my new direction was temporary. Atropos can your latest post be interpreted in any other way than a statement that the work is essentially done? I find it relevant to know if you at least meant it to be interpreted otherwise. I was still waiting for the continuation of our civil discourse. There weren't any questions in your last reply, so I didn't feel the need to reply. Did you want to ask something further? Product Owner, EVE Launcher | Team Special Circumstances |
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Par'Gellen
263
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Posted - 2013.07.02 14:27:00 -
[826] - Quote
CCP Atropos wrote:Par'Gellen wrote:CCP Atropos wrote:I'm watching this thread, so it's not disappeared; I simply don't have anything to update you with. No progress at all? Nothing that I want to talk about, no. So you guys consider the launcher issues closed and done? This is what your response seems to indicate; a basic lack of caring anymore. CCP, I understand that "To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto... |
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CCP Atropos
C C P C C P Alliance
377
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Posted - 2013.07.02 14:31:00 -
[827] - Quote
Par'Gellen wrote:CCP Atropos wrote:Par'Gellen wrote:CCP Atropos wrote:I'm watching this thread, so it's not disappeared; I simply don't have anything to update you with. No progress at all? Nothing that I want to talk about, no. So you guys consider the launcher issues closed and done? This is what your response seems to indicate; a basic lack of caring anymore. Not at all. I'm saying that I don't have anything I wish to talk about, not that there isn't anything to talk about. Product Owner, EVE Launcher | Team Special Circumstances |
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Par'Gellen
263
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Posted - 2013.07.02 14:31:00 -
[828] - Quote
CCP Atropos wrote:Alphea Abbra wrote:Well, it could seem that the changes that led to my new direction was temporary.
Atropos can your latest post be interpreted in any other way than a statement that the work is essentially done? I find it relevant to know if you at least meant it to be interpreted otherwise.
I was still waiting for the continuation of our civil discourse. There weren't any questions in your last reply, so I didn't feel the need to reply. Did you want to ask something further? I saw a pretty direct question in Alphea Abbra's reply. Why ignore it?
CCP, I understand that "To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto... |
Par'Gellen
263
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Posted - 2013.07.02 14:33:00 -
[829] - Quote
CCP Atropos wrote:Par'Gellen wrote:CCP Atropos wrote:Par'Gellen wrote:CCP Atropos wrote:I'm watching this thread, so it's not disappeared; I simply don't have anything to update you with. No progress at all? Nothing that I want to talk about, no. So you guys consider the launcher issues closed and done? This is what your response seems to indicate; a basic lack of caring anymore. Not at all. I'm saying that I don't have anything I wish to talk about, not that there isn't anything to talk about. So are you saying you're withholding updates out of spite? I'm very disappointed after the previous positive turn of the thread Keep in mind this entire mess was due to keeping us out of the loop in the first place. CCP, I understand that "To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto... |
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CCP Atropos
C C P C C P Alliance
377
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Posted - 2013.07.02 14:45:00 -
[830] - Quote
Par'Gellen wrote:CCP Atropos wrote:Alphea Abbra wrote:Well, it could seem that the changes that led to my new direction was temporary.
Atropos can your latest post be interpreted in any other way than a statement that the work is essentially done? I find it relevant to know if you at least meant it to be interpreted otherwise.
I was still waiting for the continuation of our civil discourse. There weren't any questions in your last reply, so I didn't feel the need to reply. Did you want to ask something further? I saw a pretty direct question in Alphea Abbra's reply. Why ignore it? I guess I missed it, I'll go back and check it out. Product Owner, EVE Launcher | Team Special Circumstances |
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CCP Atropos
C C P C C P Alliance
377
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Posted - 2013.07.02 14:47:00 -
[831] - Quote
Par'Gellen wrote:CCP Atropos wrote: Not at all. I'm saying that I don't have anything I wish to talk about, not that there isn't anything to talk about.
So are you saying you're withholding updates out of spite? I'm very disappointed after the previous positive turn of the thread Keep in mind this entire mess was due to keeping us out of the loop in the first place. I'm very disappointed in the tone this has taken, too. Silence doesn't mean nothing is happening, nor does it mean that we've abandoned work on the Launcher and have gleefully wandered off to other things; I merely don't think the minutia of setting up team backlogs, migrating between defect tracking systems, and the prioritising of work for several teams is what this thread is intended for. Product Owner, EVE Launcher | Team Special Circumstances |
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Par'Gellen
263
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Posted - 2013.07.02 15:06:00 -
[832] - Quote
CCP Atropos wrote:I'm very disappointed in the tone this has taken, too. Silence doesn't mean nothing is happening, nor does it mean that we've abandoned work on the Launcher and have gleefully wandered off to other things; I merely don't think the minutia of setting up team backlogs, migrating between defect tracking systems, and the prioritising of work for several teams is what this thread is intended for. Look at it from our point of view. We don't know what you guys are doing so when you fall silent for several days we can only perceive this as nothing happening since that is all we can see. Telling us you are hard at work addressing the issues and then after several days saying there is nothing new to report only compounds this and comes across very very very bad.
If it were me and I knew I had disappointed a massive portion of the playerbase (and probably impacted the revenue of the company I work for in a negative way) I'd be on here at least daily with an update on whatever issue(s) I had addressed or any new ideas or requested features I had worked on. I'd also detail the direction my project was taking with specifics and request feedback on each item.
Trying to read our minds while sitting in the shadows and working in secret is not the way to do it. Even if that isn't what you are doing that is the way it appears to the customers. We are here and more than willing to help! For the love of all things holy USE US!
Hell, even the vague update you gave just now about the current workflow indicates something is being done and that we haven't been forgotten and I appreciate it. CCP, I understand that "To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto... |
Par'Gellen
263
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Posted - 2013.07.02 15:19:00 -
[833] - Quote
CCP Atropos wrote:Was that the question you were referring to, or am I missing something? The rest of the two post reply is replies to my statements, and not further questions as far as I can see. I was talking about the question in the reply that you quoted. You have since answered it in response to my own questions but I couldn't figure out how you missed it when you had just quoted it.
Here is the question I was referring to:
Alphea Abbra wrote:Atropos can your latest post be interpreted in any other way than a statement that the work is essentially done? I find it relevant to know if you at least meant it to be interpreted otherwise. CCP, I understand that "To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto... |
Texty
State War Academy Caldari State
72
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Posted - 2013.07.02 15:35:00 -
[834] - Quote
Excuse me, can we have the "Your CapsLock is on" notifing feature for the ID/password field? |
Seth Toralen
Generic Alt Corporation 421
6
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Posted - 2013.07.02 18:05:00 -
[835] - Quote
Texty wrote:Excuse me, can we have the "Your CapsLock is on" notifing feature for the ID/password field?
That's a good idea. Work that in when you can.
Atrophos, is there any further testing that I can do for you guys to determine the cause of the 324 errors? As far as I know, you guys have still not been able to replicate it despite numerous players clearly having the issue. I would be happy to try more things for you guys if you have ideas.
The latest theory handed down from you guys came to me from GM Karidor and then a support petition response a couple days later. You guys wanted me to try resetting my IP/TCP stack. I did; it didn't work for me. No one else has responded to GM Karidor's forum post as to whether or not it worked for them (the thread he replied to had been quiet for 3 weeks prior to his post though). That it didn't work didn't particularly surprise me; that seems much more like a local machine fix. I'd love to try any other theories though. |
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
291
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Posted - 2013.07.02 18:39:00 -
[836] - Quote
CCP Atropos wrote:Alphea Abbra wrote:Atropos can your latest post be interpreted in any other way than a statement that the work is essentially done? I find it relevant to know if you at least meant it to be interpreted otherwise.
I was still waiting for the continuation of our civil discourse. There weren't any questions in your last reply, so I didn't feel the need to reply. Did you want to ask something further? It really strikes me as odd that you would reply to questions but not comments.
CCP Atropos wrote:I'm very disappointed in the tone this has taken, too. Silence doesn't mean nothing is happening, nor does it mean that we've abandoned work on the Launcher and have gleefully wandered off to other things; I merely don't think the minutia of setting up team backlogs, migrating between defect tracking systems, and the prioritising of work for several teams is what this thread is intended for. To be frank, I can't see how your disappointment is justified. The minutiae of individual tasks in several teams and projects might not be the intend of this thread, but when you drop silent (Especially after having been silent for a while before your latest replies and the move of the thread) you can't be surprised when you're called out for ignoring the concerns and complaints of customers. Adding, of course, a history of CCP where actions such as these are the precursor of dropping interest in the subject and ignoring it for (a) year(s). I said before that you have a very short list of actions that will stop the criticism: - Fix the issues. - Close threads/remove posts/censorship in general. - Stop looking at criticism/ignore it for long enough. - Ban critics.
I'm not trying to be insulting or defacing here, but it's really hard to bubblewrap the results of the new launcher in a way that isn't either toothless or insulting to those who did it. The following actions of neither community rep.s nor dev.s have alleviated the anger or issues.
If your work, or work you're responsible of overseeing, is shoddy and you get called out for it, the human reaction is often denial, defense or returning harsh words. Especially if the call-out is public, very vocal and at times very insensitive - as has been the case here. The human reaction just won't solve the problems. A responsible reaction will.
When you get part of the flak for years of bad QA / usecasetesting / ignoring users / going with "future awesome" over "works currently" / showing how out-of-touch you are / and many other complaints, you don't get them because customers can't understand the work (Or results thereof) that is done, you get it because the customers can. |
Nicen Jehr
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
206
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Posted - 2013.07.02 20:14:00 -
[837] - Quote
this thread... CCP: Hey guys we are giving y'all FREE JETPACKS! Fuel costs are included in your $15/mo. Hater 1: WTF, YOU ONLY MADE THREE COLORS!? Hater 2: I spent two years crafting my bicycle and you obsolete it with zero warning? This is merely the latest entry in the long list of ways CCP shafts its loyal players. I've had enough, I quit CCP: Damn! We found a problem that causes the jetpack to get stuck on in 0.1% of cases. Affected players must manually switch off the fuel pump before upgrading the firmware, it should be fixed automatically for the other 99.9%. Sorry for the inconvenience everybody, these jetpacks are pretty complicated! Hater 3: Christ, the old bicycles didn't have firmware and they never broke down. Hater 4: Remember that time all the jetpacks were knocked out of the sky by some act of God? It took nearly a quarter of an hour for me to reset everything and get back in the air. I can't believe this, what a hassle, i guess the anti-bicycle devs are spending their time creating problems instead of fixing them Little Things to improve GëíGïüGëí-á| My Little Things posts |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
259
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Posted - 2013.07.03 00:42:00 -
[838] - Quote
Oraac Ensor wrote:Oraac Ensor wrote:Oraac Ensor wrote:Once again, the patch installation fails because it can't update the launcher, the repair tool says all launcher files are missing and it can't install them afresh.
Yet I have a working launcher!!!
This is just too bizarre for words. And again . . . This is getting tedious. And still more tedious going through the same process yet again.
CCP Atropos wrote:As for the EVEMail, I don't know the dispatch date; it will go out as part of a general player base survey that we run every year, I believe. I don't understand this reply. When our conversation ended you still had no idea what was causing my problem and asked if it was ok to Eve-mail me. Why would you need to ask my permission to send me a general player base survey and how would it help with my problem?
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Lion Arthie
Rise of the Bunnies Punkz 'n Monkeys
0
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Posted - 2013.07.03 13:08:00 -
[839] - Quote
Greetings all.
- Came back from a 5 months break and reinstalled the game; - Having issues related to the launcher (not launching at all!); - On facebook CCP Manifest advised to send a ticket; - Paid for subscription (in dollars, not plex); - Sent the ticket; - Still awaiting a reply...; - Phoned CCP in iceland, where lady operator initially told me my computer has issues without even knowing my hardware (lol) and that I will have to await a week for a solution!
So dear CCP, I have already paid you. Are you going to compensate me for the game time/days I am losing while you fix my issue? If no, please refund me my money. I am sure to find another game to pay for.
Ty.
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Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
631
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Posted - 2013.07.03 13:55:00 -
[840] - Quote
Lion Arthie wrote:Greetings all.
- Came back from a 5 months break and reinstalled the game; - Having issues related to the launcher (not launching at all!); - On facebook CCP Manifest advised to send a ticket; - Paid for subscription (in dollars, not plex); - Sent the ticket; - Still awaiting a reply...; - Phoned CCP in iceland, where lady operator initially told me my computer has issues without even knowing my hardware (lol) and that I will have to await a week for a solution!
So dear CCP, I have already paid you. Are you going to compensate me for the game time/days I am losing while you fix my issue? If no, please refund me my money. I am sure to find another game to pay for.
Ty.
You missed the part of the EULA which basically says that once they have your money they can do what they want, and there are no refunds. Its irrelevant if you can play or not. |
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