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Paikis
Vapour Holdings
855
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Posted - 2013.06.16 22:07:00 -
[31] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:Hamatitio wrote:They should remove capital class missiles from the game, give the phoenix bonus to hybrids, and be done with it.
wouldnt that just turn it into a moros
It'd turn into a bad Moros, because they'd give it optimal range instead of tracking.
@OP: Deal. With. It. |
Kayemeh
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
3
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Posted - 2013.06.17 00:50:00 -
[32] - Quote
Joan Greywind wrote:The problem is, if they refund your sp they will have to refund it in many other cases, which will make it unrealistic. If the basis of the argument is if due to design changes I stopped using a particular module or ship and hence I should be reimbursed applies to a lot of changes.
Thanks for taking the time to provide good examples. The Specific Shield comp skill changes were far more serious and frustrating than my complaint. However, I think the Naglfar problem is unique: I didn't choose to stop using a module - I actually can't use it unless I train another racial Dreadnought. It's obviously very minor among impacts to players caused by patches/changes, but I may as well try to see if the devs think it should be fixed.
Joan Greywind wrote: I think you should ask yourself the question, did the changes improve the ship you fly notwithstanding the skill cost or not? the question here is obviously yes. Before the changes you were willing to put 542k extra skill points in a worse ship. Now you have a better ship for less skill cost and you should have an increase in overall utility
The Naglfar change was obviously intended to make the ship competitive and balance it as far as skill points. Great. The problem is that exisitng Naglfar pilots (or am I the only one?) still have the same amount of skill points invested. I think it's a bit of a botched job, and the present configuration is largely due to the graphic model of the Naglfar and the desire to prevent it from flying as a missile only boat. If they'd had an extra hardpoint to play with they might have implemented the same type of bonuses/ hardpoint allocation for split weapons they used on the crusier class. Maybe this is what they'll do in the future. |
Khanid Voltar
Third Way Retirement Corp
11
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Posted - 2013.06.22 19:21:00 -
[33] - Quote
I think it's a valid point you are making, but I think you are forgetting the fact that in order to be a Naglfar pilot you have by definition been prepared to take it up the ass from CCP for years already and so why should things change now.
For instance:
1. Everyone complaining that split weapon system is bullcrap and CCP should just make the Nag pure guns. CCP art department categorically refuse and instead pilots get a 3rd weapon to train aka citadel cruise missiles.
2. CCP admitting that TSM is effectively useless to train to 5 so they reduce capital shield operation pre-reqs to 4. Asks pilots to 'watch this space' about the TSM skill (3-4 years later still watching). Noone who previously had trained it to 5 gets a refund. Rumours abound that CCP will reduce the skill rank and refund but rumours account for nothing.
3. CCP admitting the Hel has no real role and that it needs a better bonus.
In effect, if yoiu are a Minmatar capital pilot you have by now gotten so used to being dicked about by CCP with regard to capital ships you aren't going to get up on arms about yet another change, because your feelings werent cared about before so why should they be now.
Only way to get around it is to trade fo a different character! |
Alpheias
Euphoria Released Verge of Collapse
2212
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Posted - 2013.07.12 07:08:00 -
[34] - Quote
Khanid Voltar wrote:I think it's a valid point you are making, but I think you are forgetting the fact that in order to be a Naglfar pilot you have by definition been prepared to take it up the ass from CCP for years already and so why should things change now.
For instance:
1. Everyone complaining that split weapon system is bullcrap and CCP should just make the Nag pure guns. CCP art department categorically refuse and instead pilots get a 3rd weapon to train aka citadel cruise missiles.
2. CCP admitting that TSM is effectively useless to train to 5 so they reduce capital shield operation pre-reqs to 4. Asks pilots to 'watch this space' about the TSM skill (3-4 years later still watching). Noone who previously had trained it to 5 gets a refund. Rumours abound that CCP will reduce the skill rank and refund but rumours account for nothing.
3. CCP admitting the Hel has no real role and that it needs a better bonus.
In effect, if yoiu are a Minmatar capital pilot you have by now gotten so used to being dicked about by CCP with regard to capital ships you aren't going to get up on arms about yet another change, because your feelings werent cared about before so why should they be now.
Only way to get around it is to trade fo a different character!
Or start branching off for something else, like a Revelation or Moros, if you have the skills. Allow me to be frank. You will not like me. You will not like me now, and you will not like men++ a good deal less as we go on. |
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
889
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 07:12:00 -
[35] - Quote
Have to remember as well that capital balancing is coming "Soon(tm)" at which point, having the ability to use a semi-well trained Phoenix may prove useful. The Phoenix is useless currently, but in a year's time, we might all be wishing we'd trained for one. |
Linda Shadowborn
Dark Steel Industries
220
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Posted - 2013.07.12 18:05:00 -
[36] - Quote
I finished training capital torps and cruises (just in case you know) JUUST as they announced the nag would lose its launchers. so i never even got to fire them
Am I mad about that? Nope, not in the least. As people say, you never know what the future holds and having it trained is always nice. You at least got use out of your capital missile skills, I still havent fired a single capital missile.
Things change, and as long as the skill is still useful and it is then why whine. I swear it is like super pilots and drones all over again but on a much smaller scale. |
Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises Fidelas Constans
237
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Posted - 2013.07.12 19:10:00 -
[37] - Quote
OP,
You need PLEX for Removal of Unwanted Skills!
You can remove any skills that you have no use for & mess up your other perfectly looking skill sheet.
btw, You DO NOT get reimbursed for the skill points R.I.P. Vile Rat |
GTN
BALKAN EXPRESS
32
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Posted - 2013.07.15 09:28:00 -
[38] - Quote
As a Naglfar pilot I think that, for the sake of fairness, CCP should reimburse the now useless capital missile skills that Naglfar pilots trained. They are useless because in order to use them, great sacrifices have to be made to fly a phoenix, which performs worse than the Naglfar. I expect people to complain to me that I should be happy that my naglfar performs better than a phoenix, but just anything performs better than a phoenix, and no one would ever train for one. |
Kayemeh
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
11
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Posted - 2013.07.18 02:59:00 -
[39] - Quote
GTN wrote:As a Naglfar pilot I think that, for the sake of fairness, CCP should reimburse the now useless capital missile skills that Naglfar pilots trained. They are useless because in order to use them, great sacrifices have to be made to fly a phoenix, which performs worse than the Naglfar. I expect people to complain to me that I should be happy that my naglfar performs better than a phoenix, but just anything performs better than a phoenix, and no one would ever train for one.
Well said.
I think it's logical that reimbursing the cap missile skills should have been part of the Naglfar fix. It's a shame that so many Minmatar pilots are inured to this kind of treatment by CCP - this thread needs more support. |
Kayemeh
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
11
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 10:31:00 -
[40] - Quote
Linda Shadowborn wrote:I finished training capital torps and cruises (just in case you know) JUUST as they announced the nag would lose its launchers. so i never even got to fire them
Am I mad about that? Nope, not in the least. As people say, you never know what the future holds and having it trained is always nice. You at least got use out of your capital missile skills, I still havent fired a single capital missile.
Things change, and as long as the skill is still useful and it is then why whine. I swear it is like super pilots and drones all over again but on a much smaller scale.
Linda, this was one of the most perplexing posts I've read in quite a while. Did you seriously train Citadel Cruise to 5 after already having Torps 'finished' and never having flown a Naglfar to test them? If so then I'm pretty sure you planned to train for the Phoenix anyway. I predict you never fly either of those dreads, but will think that it's nice that you can if you ever should have to. If my saying this motivates you to actually buy one (it won't) then I hope you get tackled by a t1 frigate pilot who laughs at your lack of drones.
My own position on this has already been called a 'whine' by several posters and I can accept that. However, you have failed to think objectively and your condescending attitude is hard to tolerate. Instead of sharing your bland conformism here, please face the fact that all your capital ship skills are wasted and go mourn those months of lost time in private. |
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Khanid Voltar
Third Way Retirement Corp
15
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Posted - 2013.07.20 19:00:00 -
[41] - Quote
An alternative example to consider might when stealth bombers switched from being fit with cruise missiles to being fit with torp missiles, its almost a direct comparison to this example.
Again CCP made no refund, it just won't happen this time either.
You know it's sad but true. |
Clementina
Coreli Corporation
87
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Posted - 2013.07.23 04:28:00 -
[42] - Quote
I do see the original poster's point.
However CCP should not refund the points. Instead there should be two Minmatar dreads, a gun one and a missile one. |
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