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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Petrus Blackshell
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
8
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Posted - 2011.10.20 22:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ship spinning, supercap nerf, AF buff, hybrid balancing, pod killmails, engine trails, generic patcher, etc etc. CCP is delivering a whole ton of things that players have asked for. However, on top of all that, they are also moving forward with WiS (with all the new stations), new ships, and of development of other features and Dust 514. All is well, right? Well...
Some people are (rightfully) questioning why all of these small awesome things that CCP is doing have been ignored for so long -- years, in some cases -- just to all be done all of a sudden when CCP got in trouble. It's suspicious, isn't it? "Don't CCP play their own game?" to quote many people.
That is probably not what happened. Being a software developer myself, I have been on projects where everything was going so super-well that everyone felt like they were on a roll. New features were being developed left and right, and the future looked bright! However, as inevitably happens in very fast development of software, there are bugs, loopholes, and other minor annoyances pile up.
That is where the problems begin. We developers consider our time to be extremely valuable, and when given the choice of developing an exciting new feature or fixing a boring bug with a possibly tedious solution, we will almost always pick the former. This leads to a product feeling incomplete and half-assed, most likely with a userbase disillusioned with the developers. I suspect this is likely the same chain of events leading to other famously crappy-at-first products, like Windows Vista.
In Eve's case, this bubble popped with Incarna. Riots, mass quittings, and other things ensued. Since player satisfaction wasn't going to be fixed by adding more new features, they were practically forced to look at the "little things" that piled up over years, and they are now getting fixed.
The bigger problem remains, though. While I'm sure we all understand CCP's enthusiasm for always making the Eve universe bigger and better (this includes Dust 514, by the way), rushing out new feature after new feature without looking back only leads to eventual catastrophic explosion of player dissatisfaction.
Team BFF was one of the best things that happened to EVE in a long, long time. However, as it were, it was too little, too late. While it had its merits, it did not address a ton of very long-standing problems. Be that because of lacking manpower, expertise (BFF is supposed to address all little things wrong in EVE -- that's a lot of variety in programming expertise needed!), or direction, I can't tell.
What I can tell is that we need more of it. Just like this Winter expansion will address a million little things, there need to be hotfixes for nuisances in gameplay constantly -- bug fixes, rebalances, whatever. As evidenced by the plans for this upcoming expansion, you can do it, CCP. So keep doing it. For the whole future of EVE, not just in times of crisis.
And players, don't go too hard on the devs. While "greed is good" may have been the motto for EVE's finance department (it's sort of their job), the only thing the devs (and maybe even Hilmar) did wrong is loving to see EVE grow too much.
tl;dr: CCP: More BFF stuff now and forever more in EVE, for great justice and a happy playerbase. Players: CCP screwed up, and are scrambling to fix things. Curb the rage, give them some time to act on their :words: and try to see it from their perspective sometime. |
Darth A30NZ
Society Of New Eden Studies Violent Society
5
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Posted - 2011.10.20 23:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
I hope it's a tech II Damage Control. |
Jada Maroo
Mysterium Astrometrics BRABODEN
306
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Posted - 2011.10.20 23:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
I don't care what mode they're in: I like it |
KamikazeBrAzIl
Crimoria Co Vera Cruz Alliance
3
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Posted - 2011.10.20 23:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
Oh well... it's like a honey moon with CCP
don't let me wake up |
Rhaegor Stormborn
BURN EDEN Northern Coalition.
121
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Posted - 2011.10.21 00:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Maybe they have learned their lesson. I hope so, because if they just do this for one expansion (this winter), and then start being retards again, they will experience the exact same issues. |
RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous
93
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Posted - 2011.10.21 00:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
What Im worried about is once they stabalized everything that they will slide right back into Ignoring EvE to work on other projects again. |
Rhaegor Stormborn
BURN EDEN Northern Coalition.
121
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Posted - 2011.10.21 00:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:What Im worried about is once they stabalized everything that they will slide right back into Ignoring EvE to work on other projects again.
Me too, but I don't think they can afford to at this point, and I think they FINALLY know it. Two years too late, millions of dollars in wasted resources, so much wasted time, so many lost customers, but I hope, I pray, that they finally realize their mistakes. |
Alara IonStorm
Caldari State
90
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Posted - 2011.10.21 00:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Now that CCP has finally listened to us when we said that you should always fit a Dmg Control when you PvP they might actually win for once.
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The Apostle
The Black Priests
600
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Posted - 2011.10.21 00:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:What Im worried about is once they stabalized everything that they will slide right back into Ignoring EvE to work on other projects again. Why are you even playing? I have never seen anyone so negative about everything. It's strangely disturbing.
There are people who actually have a reason for long faces today and I bet even they are still trying to smile.... A little bit.
Lighten up and smile. Go on. Smile. Go on......There.... That's better....
See, you feel better already
Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
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RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous
93
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Posted - 2011.10.21 00:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:RougeOperator wrote:What Im worried about is once they stabalized everything that they will slide right back into Ignoring EvE to work on other projects again. Why are you even playing? I have never seen anyone so negative about everything. It's strangely disturbing. There are people who actually have a reason for long faces today and I bet even they are still trying to smile.... A little bit. Lighten up and smile. Go on. Smile. Go on......There.... That's better.... See, you feel better already
CCP gave me and has continued to give me every reason to be negative.
Many wish to know what you are on that warps reality for you so much.
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Headerman
Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
250
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Posted - 2011.10.21 00:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
Meh... it's the same with Dell.
Dell think their stuff is awesome. From Servers, and switches down to phones and cables. All of it is ace.
Meanwhile, many customers think Dell is crap, usually when it's not working.
People have different points of view. Most of the time, they are all correct in their view. [img]http://i53.tinypic.com/bebnf8.jpg[/img] |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
600
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Posted - 2011.10.21 02:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:The Apostle wrote:RougeOperator wrote:What Im worried about is once they stabalized everything that they will slide right back into Ignoring EvE to work on other projects again. Why are you even playing? I have never seen anyone so negative about everything. It's strangely disturbing. There are people who actually have a reason for long faces today and I bet even they are still trying to smile.... A little bit. Lighten up and smile. Go on. Smile. Go on......There.... That's better.... See, you feel better already CCP gave me and has continued to give me every reason to be negative. Many wish to know what you are on that warps reality for you so much. Could be 'cos I came to the realization long ago that it's only a game and being part of any game is optional. If it makes you so sad and so bitter then maybe this is not the "game" for you. Dunno. I didn't major in pyschology.
But it's getting kinda tiresome watching and reading grumble-bums all day. Every post, every thread I read in the hope that someone, somewhere is actually bloody happy.
Maybe this is the wrong game for me. Serious business this spaceship stuff. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
59
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Posted - 2011.10.21 03:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
The OP has some valid points. The main one is let's see what CCP does with the winter expansion?
My only question is why does everyone always list the tl;dr: at the bottom of the post? You end up reading the entire post anyway before seeing it. |
Alara IonStorm
Caldari State
93
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Posted - 2011.10.21 03:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:The OP has some valid points. The main one is let's see what CCP does with the winter expansion?
My only question is why does everyone always list the tl;dr: at the bottom of the post? You end up reading the entire post anyway before seeing it. I am thinking it is a Trick, get us all excited then 10min before release they will blow up the Servers, claim it was an accident then claim the insurance and Run!
Ether that or release Space Dragons as a pet that follows your ship around.
Damnit now I am hoping for Space Dragons. |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
29
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Posted - 2011.10.21 03:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:The OP has some valid points. The main one is let's see what CCP does with the winter expansion?
My only question is why does everyone always list the tl;dr: at the bottom of the post? You end up reading the entire post anyway before seeing it. I am thinking it is a Trick, get us all excited then 10min before release they will blow up the Servers, claim it was an accident then claim the insurance and Run! Ether that or release Space Dragons as a pet that follows your ship around. Damnit now I am hoping for Space Dragons.
Another dev gets drunk and kicks the plug out of the wall?
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mxzf
Shovel Bros
32
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Posted - 2011.10.21 03:23:00 -
[16] - Quote
Yeah, as a programmer myself I do completely understand creeping featurism, it's regrettable but somewhat inevitable. I do like the current refocus they seem to be going through and I'm hoping that they can follow through with this. The latest news about Customs Offices makes me worry a bit that they might already be loosing touch with the playerbase again, but I'm willing to see how it turns out before passing too much judgement on it. |
Petrus Blackshell
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
10
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Posted - 2011.10.21 04:36:00 -
[17] - Quote
Rouge and Apostle, I'm not saying I'm not cynical, or that cynicism is a bad thing. I'm just saying that pessimism in this case, at least from my perspective as a software engineer, is unnecessary. Also, blame is getting put in all the wrong places and for the wrong reasons.
Hmm... Is playing for almost 2 years enough to give me bittervet status? Maybe I need to stop the optimism.
DeMichael Crimson wrote:My only question is why does everyone always list the tl;dr: at the bottom of the post? You end up reading the entire post anyway before seeing it.
You are absolutely right. I actually saw a thread with the tl;dr at the top earlier today, and it made me incredibly happy. I'll keep that in mind whenever I write any more tl;drs. |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
29
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Posted - 2011.10.21 04:38:00 -
[18] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Hmm... Is playing for almost 2 years enough to give me bittervet status? Maybe I need to stop the optimism.
Sry, takes 4 |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
71
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Posted - 2011.10.21 05:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
There was an issue with parsing this post's BBCode We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
non judgement
Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance
96
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Posted - 2011.10.21 05:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:tl;dr: CCP: More BFF stuff now and forever more in EVE, for great justice and a happy playerbase. Players: CCP screwed up, and are scrambling to fix things. Curb the rage, give them some time to act on their :words: and try to see it from their perspective sometime. I agree with this. People these days (maybe just the young people) are so quick to pass judgement on something without thinking about how much effort went into it. I'd hate to try making something and have most of the people from these forums comment on it. People at CCP have commented before about how they have made something and how the people have used in a way they didn't think they would.
And to finish I'd like to use this Primus song called The Hecker:
Through the door it slithers in, Accompanied by its peers. Always groveling for attention, While no one really hears. In its mind it's full of wit And quite the social king. It plants itself among the rest, to give its deadly sting.
It's just a matter of opinion.
Further now there's a man of taste. Of talent and precision. To work and strive at his artform. Has been his life's decision. The stage is set. The perfect show Is put before the mass. Only to be ridiculed by some slimy, pompous ass.
It's just a matter of opinion.
Afterthought: Are CCP using the tech2 version of damage control? |
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Hershman
G-Weezy
7
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Posted - 2011.10.21 05:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
whoa... FRAAAAAT!!! |
Petrus Blackshell
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
12
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Posted - 2011.10.21 06:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
non judgement wrote:Kids these days...
Well, for those kids out there: imagine you really screwed up your grades at some point in your schooling, and your parents made your life hell because of it. This is the whole shebang: no more allowance, social life, and constant berating about why you're not doing any better yet. You have, however, studied as hard as you could for upcoming tests, did your homework perfectly (and even showed it to them!), and other things. However, they just won't stop going on about how your grades are still bad, and there's nothing you can do about that until those tests come around.
The analogy breaks down somewhat when CCP is the "child" and the EVE playerbase is the "parents", but the same sort of attitude is there.
Give them a second chance, kiddies.
non judgement wrote:Afterthought: Are CCP using the tech2 version of damage control?
They better be! They've lost 20% struct already! |
Vaffel Junior
NorCorp Security
64
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Posted - 2011.10.21 06:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
Its that nerf monster that pisses ppl off.... Why not come up with new ships and weapponsystems instead ?
Too mutch work I guess....... |
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CCP Spitfire
C C P C C P Alliance
298
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Posted - 2011.10.21 07:01:00 -
[24] - Quote
Vaffel Junior wrote:Its that nerf monster that pisses ppl off.... Why not come up with new ships and weapponsystems instead ? Too mutch work I guess.......
Please let me quote a post made by CCP Navigator yesterday:
CCP Navigator wrote:Let me give you guys a little more information on what is coming. Starting next week we will be producing a series of 'In Development' video blogs which will look at what the various teams are planning for Winter 2011. I want to stress that these videos will not contain release dates as we are aiming to provide a lot of stuff and do not want to commit to a date we cannot keep. These will include:
Engine trails - Yes, that's right we are adding engine trails to EVE and we will show the work in progress so far.
New ships - Recently we featured a shot of the Tornado, the Deviant Art contest winner, on the EVE Facebook page. We were not happy with just giving out one ship so we will be showcasing all four new ships.
New nebulae - These new background sin the EVE universe are stunningly beautiful and will add to the immersion and feeling of being in deep space.
Team BFF - This team should be Best Features Fullstop and CCP Soundwave will give an overview of what his team has in store. Capital ship balancing, balancing hybrids, assault ships bonuses and much more will be added during winter.
Customer Relations - The Lead GM's will talk about changes to how petitions are handled, more options for Stuck petitions and how we aim to deal with your issues as fast as possible.
We are not just going to stop there. We will bring you more video blogs about what is in development for EVE Online.
CCP Spitfire | Russian Community Coordinator @ccp_spitfire |
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Florestan Bronstein
The Waterworks
120
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Posted - 2011.10.21 07:02:00 -
[25] - Quote
I like damage control mode and think CCP should do more of it
Vaffel Junior wrote:Its that nerf monster that pisses ppl off.... Why not come up with new ships and weapponsystems instead ? Too mutch work I guess....... not like the the CSM (as rep of the community) did explicitly ask for fixes to be prioritized over shiny new features/content...
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Petrus Blackshell
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
12
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Posted - 2011.10.21 07:08:00 -
[26] - Quote
Vaffel Junior wrote:Its that nerf monster that pisses ppl off.... Why not come up with new ships and weapponsystems instead ? Too mutch work I guess.......
That is exactly the wrong thing to be encouraging them to do.
Petrus Blackshell wrote:We developers consider our time to be extremely valuable, and when given the choice of developing an exciting new feature or fixing a boring bug with a possibly tedious solution, we will almost always pick the former. This leads to a product feeling incomplete and half-assed, most likely with a userbase disillusioned with the developers.
Until the current bugs and imbalances are fixed, new ships are only going to compound the problem. New ships aren't going to make passive shield tanking balanced, nor are they going to make blasters useful. New weapon systems aren't going to make the Prophecy worth flying, and they aren't going to make EVE any less laggy.
Florestan Bronstein wrote: not like the the CSM (as rep of the community) did explicitly ask for fixes to be prioritized over shiny new features/content...
^^ This. We have our new features and content, but they (and some preexisting content) are rather broken. Once those work well, then the shiny new things should come forth. |
Vaffel Junior
NorCorp Security
64
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Posted - 2011.10.21 07:14:00 -
[27] - Quote
CCP Spitfire..... I want to beleve you.... I want to beleve you..... I want to beleve you.... I w...... nah..... I hope im wrong |
DarkAegix
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
113
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Posted - 2011.10.21 07:19:00 -
[28] - Quote
Vaffel Junior wrote:CCP Spitfire..... I want to beleve you.... I want to beleve you..... I want to beleve you.... I w...... nah..... I hope im wrong I believe that you cannot spell. |
Vaffel Junior
NorCorp Security
64
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Posted - 2011.10.21 07:22:00 -
[29] - Quote
DarkAegix wrote:Vaffel Junior wrote:CCP Spitfire..... I want to beleve you.... I want to beleve you..... I want to beleve you.... I w...... nah..... I hope im wrong I believe that you cannot spell.
As a native Norwegian... I refuse to spell english corectly
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March rabbit
Ganse Shadow of xXDEATHXx
17
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Posted - 2011.10.21 07:33:00 -
[30] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:CCP gave me and has continued to give me every reason to be negative. maybe you should grow a little? unsub and find other stuff to spend money?
Or it feels better to be negative, pay and cry instead?
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