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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5185
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Posted - 2013.05.28 06:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP removes Deep Space Scan Probes CCP promises that this will be okay because the scan overlay and discovery scanner are a good replacement for how DSP find cosmic signatures (and how people can differentiate between them by signal strength) CCP then, a week before the expansion, removes the signal strength display in the scanner and the overlay based on some perceived issue that nobody had complained about, significantly reducing the scanning functionality once again.
Giving players no options to find this information represents a pretty significant nerf to scanning. I'm at a loss for words just how terrible this change is. -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
5099
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Posted - 2013.05.28 06:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ok. |
Xercodo
Xovoni Astronautical Manufacturing and Engineering
2334
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Posted - 2013.05.28 06:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
And there's only a handful of you that care really. The Drake is a Lie |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5187
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Posted - 2013.05.28 06:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Xercodo wrote:And there's only a handful of you that care really. So you think just removing a function from the game that a lot of people find really useful (and no, not a handful) for almost no reason is fine? Get out. -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3424
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Posted - 2013.05.28 06:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
Xercodo wrote:And there's only a handful of you that care really.
Just like POSes. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
74
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Posted - 2013.05.28 06:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
+1
There is an overzealousnouss at work here to make things more accessible, ruining the finer art of probing in the process.
I am also concerned about the new modules that will be required (from what I've gathered) to match the current performance of our probes: are these active modules? Does it mean that I *have* to uncloak to get a good reading?
That in itself would be another nerf to combat probing. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
5099
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 07:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Xercodo wrote:And there's only a handful of you that care really. So you think just removing a function from the game that a lot of people find really useful (and no, not a handful) for almost no reason is fine? Get out. Seems to me it's a nerf to site farming. I'm going to be honest here. It was very handy and I'm certainly going to try to reproduce that functionality through whatever means available, but I'm not going to shed any tears even if that ability gets permanently removed from the game. |
Lexmana
960
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Posted - 2013.05.28 07:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
Without DSPs there is not much use of exact signal strength. So it all comes down to wether DSPs were useful enough to be considered OP in areas of space where players should be able to sneak in and hide. Where they? |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5191
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 07:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:Without DSPs there is not much use of exact signal strength. Uh, what? DSPs were used to find signal strength in the first place.
Lexmana wrote:So it all comes down to wether DSPs were useful enough to be considered OP in areas of space where players should be able to sneak in and hide. Where they? Perhaps, but that has nothing to do with this discussion because the scan overlay and the discovery scanner only produce this information for cosmic signatures. -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5191
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Posted - 2013.05.28 07:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Xercodo wrote:And there's only a handful of you that care really. So you think just removing a function from the game that a lot of people find really useful (and no, not a handful) for almost no reason is fine? Get out. Seems to me it's a nerf to site farming. I'm going to be honest here. It was very handy and I'm certainly going to try to reproduce that functionality through whatever means available, but I'm not going to shed any tears even if that ability gets permanently removed from the game. It's also a nerf to pretty much anybody who lives or does exploration in wormholes, because it makes it that much more difficult to find a specific type of site or a wormhole. It'll also make that wormhole you forgot to bookmark a lot harder to find, too. -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
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poppeteer
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
10
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Posted - 2013.05.28 07:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
Hmm? Just checked and signal strength is there (3.3mb patch since yesterday) for me. Could you explain further? |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5194
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 07:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
Because it hasn't been removed yet. They're going to remove it, however. This and the next post. -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
694
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Posted - 2013.05.28 07:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Xercodo wrote:And there's only a handful of you that care really. So you think just removing a function from the game that a lot of people find really useful (and no, not a handful) for almost no reason is fine? Get out. mandatory HTFU/STFU/Adapt or die?
It's not any different from any other thread "CCP broke XXX or YYY". |
poppeteer
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
10
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Posted - 2013.05.28 07:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
Oh. Bugger. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5194
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 07:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Xercodo wrote:And there's only a handful of you that care really. So you think just removing a function from the game that a lot of people find really useful (and no, not a handful) for almost no reason is fine? Get out. mandatory HTFU/STFU/Adapt or die? It's not any different from any other thread "CCP broke XXX or YYY". Yes, yes it is. Go get a ******* clue. -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
Kyra Quinn
We Are Really Scary
41
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Posted - 2013.05.28 08:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
I'm quite worried about the changes to exploration, apart from what the OP has mentioned (and other stuff as well) it just doesn't feel like exploration anymore; there's no "hidden riches" feeling and it's just all very mundane and boring even. It sure has pretty colours but it's lacking in depth in my opinion. The adventures of a newbie: http://kyraquinn.wordpress.com/ |
Shaden Nightwalker
Tryblium Sanguinis
1185
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Posted - 2013.05.28 08:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
I consider this change a move in the wrong direction.
I do like that they remove T3s from 3/10s and 4/10s, however making any kind of site harder to distinguish from others is just plainly baffling.
This makes it necessary to have a ship absolutely dedicated to scanning, analyzing and codebreaking, which rules out most shield tanking ships because of the additional need for the new modules in the mid slots.
Everything else would be inefficient, since scanning, ruling out, scanning, ruling out, scanning, doing the type of site you're out for, scanning, ruling out, etc...takes way too much time.
I am eagerly waiting to see how this will work out. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
5100
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 09:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
Kyra Quinn wrote:I'm quite worried about the changes to exploration, apart from what the OP has mentioned (and other stuff as well) it just doesn't feel like exploration anymore; there's no "hidden riches" feeling and it's just all very mundane and boring even. It sure has pretty colours but it's lacking in depth in my opinion. Sounds exactly like current exploration. A few usability issues aside and ignoring the questionable loot spewing mechanic, it sounds like a significant improvement over what we have now. People seem to have a strange nostalgia about the current system and make it out to be some skill intensive deep system, when it actually is just a shallow treasure farming system, where the important player skill is to have the common sense to use a DSP to severely filter out unwanted sites. |
J'Poll
Phoibe Enterprises
2226
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Posted - 2013.05.28 09:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tears of site farmers now that they actually have to put effort into scanning....I like When a WoW player leaves to return to WoW, the avg. IQ of both games rises. Request to CCP: Please patch stupidity out of the game for Winter 2013. Professional Forum Thread locker. |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
774
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 09:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
inb4 the cherry picker's tears ... oh wait op already filling the bucket This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
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Kyra Quinn
We Are Really Scary
41
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Posted - 2013.05.28 09:15:00 -
[21] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:Kyra Quinn wrote:I'm quite worried about the changes to exploration, apart from what the OP has mentioned (and other stuff as well) it just doesn't feel like exploration anymore; there's no "hidden riches" feeling and it's just all very mundane and boring even. It sure has pretty colours but it's lacking in depth in my opinion. Sounds exactly like current exploration. A few usability issues aside and ignoring the questionable loot spewing mechanic, it sounds like a significant improvement over what we have now. People seem to have a strange nostalgia about the current system and make it out to be some skill intensive deep system, when it actually is just a shallow treasure farming system, where the important player skill is to have the common sense to use a DSP to severely filter out unwanted sites.
No nostalgia here as I'm new but in the current system they're just more "hidden" and they take a bit more work to find them which I like as that means it feels a bit special and you're actually looking for "lost treasure". The new system is just much more obvious about it, it's a lot easier and removes a bit of the "profession specialisation" idea. I know that all sounds a bit vague but perception is reality; the new system makes it feel a lot more like chaining missions. The adventures of a newbie: http://kyraquinn.wordpress.com/ |
Shaden Nightwalker
Tryblium Sanguinis
1186
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Posted - 2013.05.28 09:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:Kyra Quinn wrote:I'm quite worried about the changes to exploration, apart from what the OP has mentioned (and other stuff as well) it just doesn't feel like exploration anymore; there's no "hidden riches" feeling and it's just all very mundane and boring even. It sure has pretty colours but it's lacking in depth in my opinion. Sounds exactly like current exploration. A few usability issues aside and ignoring the questionable loot spewing mechanic, it sounds like a significant improvement over what we have now. People seem to have a strange nostalgia about the current system and make it out to be some skill intensive deep system, when it actually is just a shallow treasure farming system, where the important player skill is to have the common sense to use a DSP to severely filter out unwanted sites.
I agree that the idea of the new system (and for a big part also the implementation) is an improvement over the old "launch DSP, hit scan, filter out sites, recall dsp, launch 7 core probes, scan sites, do sites, repeat".
With this current change, though, either the array of usable ships (at least if you want to be effective) shrinks, or, if you limit yourself to doing certain types of sites, the time to find these will be considerably increased because you have to scan through every site in a system instead of being able to rule anything out. |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2963
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Posted - 2013.05.28 09:31:00 -
[23] - Quote
Pretty much everything about the new scanning system is poorly planned and implemented in a rush.
I don't cherrypick sites, but had other high value unique uses for DSPs.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5196
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Posted - 2013.05.28 09:37:00 -
[24] - Quote
The formations are good. The discovery scanner is good (except how it scans whenever you jump, undock, or come out of warp even with the overlay turned off). The new scanning modules are probably pretty good.
Automatically returning probes when docking or leaving the system is ambiguous (some people had applications for leaving probes behind, coming back, reconnecting, and scanning). The Astrometrics skill changes are ambiguous.
Forcing players to launch all of their loaded probes up to 8 is bad design. Forcing the probe "focus" (that is, the default location of the probe's initial scan after launch) directly onto the sun in every case is bad design. Forcing players to launch into formation at all is very bad design. Removing DSPs, replacing this functionality with an added function on the discovery scanner/overlay, and then removing this functionality a week before release, is very, very bad design and shows pretty poor judgment. -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
Shaden Nightwalker
Tryblium Sanguinis
1194
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 09:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
Roime wrote:Pretty much everything about the new scanning system is poorly planned and implemented in a rush.
I don't cherrypick sites, but had other high value unique uses for DSPs.
Which ones, if I may ask, now that they will be gone soon, anyway?
I don't cherrypick much, either, except if I am online at times where there isn't much traffic. I'm mostly doing some Codebreaking/Analyzing in Lowsec, but this change still hurts to a certain degree. |
baltec1
Bat Country
6686
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Posted - 2013.05.28 09:43:00 -
[26] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote: It's also a nerf to pretty much anybody who lives or does exploration in wormholes, because it makes it that much more difficult to find a specific type of site or a wormhole. It'll also make that wormhole you forgot to bookmark a lot harder to find, too.
People have spent the last two years saying exploration was being made too easy... |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5196
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Posted - 2013.05.28 09:45:00 -
[27] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote: It's also a nerf to pretty much anybody who lives or does exploration in wormholes, because it makes it that much more difficult to find a specific type of site or a wormhole. It'll also make that wormhole you forgot to bookmark a lot harder to find, too.
People have spent the last two years saying exploration was being made too easy... And yet it still wasn't a very good method of income, was it? -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
Kyra Quinn
We Are Really Scary
41
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Posted - 2013.05.28 10:12:00 -
[28] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:baltec1 wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote: It's also a nerf to pretty much anybody who lives or does exploration in wormholes, because it makes it that much more difficult to find a specific type of site or a wormhole. It'll also make that wormhole you forgot to bookmark a lot harder to find, too.
People have spent the last two years saying exploration was being made too easy... And yet it still wasn't a very good method of income, was it?
In high sec it's very profitable, which is what I've been doing, the profit from that comes from supply vs demand in regards to the loot and as such it's player managed and I don't see any problems with it. Apart from that I don't see why exploration should be "punished" because there's much more problematic forms of income going on and many of them are faucets which exploration really isn't.
The adventures of a newbie: http://kyraquinn.wordpress.com/ |
baltec1
Bat Country
6686
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 10:14:00 -
[29] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote: And yet it still wasn't a very good method of income, was it?
Makes more than my brutix bpo |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5196
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 10:39:00 -
[30] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote: And yet it still wasn't a very good method of income, was it?
Makes more than my brutix bpo And less than chaining anoms, which doesn't require scanning of any kind apart from "press butan, receive warpin". -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
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