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Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1131
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 11:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
so i read the dev blog. most of the changes i actively approve and/or can live with. but this:
Quote:The recall and expire options have been changed a bit GÇô recall is now instantaneous and happens automatically on system jump or dock. Probes still have a timer, but instead of being lost when the timer is out, they automatically recall instead. The system remembers your last probe setup before they were automatically recalled so they can be quickly deployed again in the same pattern (by activating the launcher). No more forsaken probes in space!
...is a bad change. bad, bad, bad, bad, BAD! how would the devs justify it? would you claim that it increases accessibility? no it doesn't. if a newbie forgets his probes this means he is already probing, you have already won! he will also learn a valuable lesson about paying attention to detail, which should be and generally still is a valuable feature which distinguishes EVE from other MMOs. the only effect of this change is that sloppy and/or forgetful (read: bad) players are now spared the consequences of their actions. imagine the client would automatically insure your ship and upgrade clone for you one second before you explode. is this the direction you want to go with his game?
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Scuzzy Logic
Midnight Elites United Federation of Commerce
13
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Posted - 2013.05.29 12:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:so i read the dev blog. most of the changes i actively approve and/or can live with. but this: Quote:The recall and expire options have been changed a bit GÇô recall is now instantaneous and happens automatically on system jump or dock. Probes still have a timer, but instead of being lost when the timer is out, they automatically recall instead. The system remembers your last probe setup before they were automatically recalled so they can be quickly deployed again in the same pattern (by activating the launcher). No more forsaken probes in space! ...is a bad change. bad, bad, bad, bad, BAD! how would the devs justify it? would you claim that it increases accessibility? no it doesn't. if a newbie forgets his probes this means he is already probing, you have already won! he will also learn a valuable lesson about paying attention to detail, which should be and generally still is a valuable feature which distinguishes EVE from other MMOs. the only effect of this change is that sloppy and/or forgetful (read: bad) players are now spared the consequences of their actions. imagine the client would automatically insure your ship and upgrade clone for you one second before you explode. is this the direction you want to go with his game?
To be honest I would want a big shiny button to automatically upgrade my clone, because it honestly grinds my gears when I have to scroll down and buy a new one when I should be playing station games with the local roam.
Automatic ship insurance would be bad, because of the expiration nature of the service (which makes no sense considering most insured ships explode within 6 hours of being insured.) |
Raven Solaris
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
202
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Posted - 2013.05.29 12:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
It's actually kind of comical, if you recall your probes manually you're waiting for them to warp back to you, and sometimes they get stuck.
Hop through a gate or wormhole, or dock and they just appear in your cargo hold. |
Salpun
Paramount Commerce
502
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Posted - 2013.05.29 16:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
please go post in the correct feed back thread please. |
Solutio Letum
Terpene Conglomerate
110
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 18:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Then in that case i want my drones to dock in my drone bay when i warp off. oh wait... would that not mean they had to go to my ship some how? Same for probes, you are removing the immersion of having probes in space, and to be fair the forced formation **** is bullshit to, i want to be able to set 2 groups of probes on different parts of a system sometimes, but i wont be able to.... Stop ******* simplifying **** or no one will ever die or **** up again. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris
1915
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Posted - 2013.05.29 18:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lets compare drone recall to probe recall.
In both cases, once you deploy them 99% of the time you are going to recall them. Any action you have committed to doing 99% of the time is an action that is a candidate for automation as part of "The War on Clicks".
Drones can take a long time to return. That time is tactically important. Removing it by having an instant recall would be a big change. In addition, drone movement is animated. Adding instant movement to them would be a big change and would look odd to see in the middle of a battle. Thus even though automatic instant drone recall is a candidate for automation, its rejected.
Probes travel fast. Most of the delay you see when they are getting into position is really just the server making sure they are where you want them and updating the database. Their movement is not animated in space, they just disappear when the move. Giving them automatic instant recall changes little either tactically or in terms of what is seen in space. Hence this candidate case is accepted.
In addition, I think CCP wants to reduce items cluttering the database. Getting rid of lost probes does a little of that. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Erloas
Unorthodox Operations
0
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Posted - 2013.05.29 18:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
There are no forced formations, there are only 2 (at this point) default formations that cover 2 basic use cases, a full grid search and an overlapped narrowing down formation. It even says in the DevBlog that these aren't necessarily the ideal formations and you will often want to use your own. It also says they are wanting to (but haven't yet) add the option of creating and saving your own formations |
Cekle Skyscales
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.05.29 19:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
I don't see a problem here. Ease of use decreases frustration for new players, decreases the learning curve, and makes the game more accessible as a result. A more accessible game means more new subscribers. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1132
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 20:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Drones can take a long time to return. same as probes.
Vincent Athena wrote:That time is tactically important. Removing it by having an instant recall would be a big change. same as with probes.
Vincent Athena wrote:In addition, drone movement is animated. Adding instant movement to them would be a big change and would look odd to see in the middle of a battle. i agree 100%.
Vincent Athena wrote: Thus even though automatic instant drone recall is a candidate for automation, its rejected.
again, agreed
Vincent Athena wrote: Probes travel fast.
irrelevant; they also travel greater distances.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1132
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 20:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Most of the delay you see when they are getting into position is really just the server making sure they are where you want them and updating the database. irrelevant. the question is if instant deployment would make sense or not. i argue no.
Vincent Athena wrote: Their movement is not animated in space, they just disappear when the move.
thus logic dictates that the only correct way of fixing the problem would be to give probes a warp animation.
Vincent Athena wrote: Giving them automatic instant recall changes little either tactically or in terms of what is seen in space.
clearly you never were ambushed while scanning a system. you also never thought of leaving behind combat probes to make your opponent paranoid. you probably also never saw a 'stuck in Jxxxxxx' thread.
Vincent Athena wrote: Hence this candidate case is accepted.
the conclusion is not justified, because your premises are flawed.
Vincent Athena wrote:In addition, I think CCP wants to reduce items cluttering the database. Getting rid of lost probes does a little of that. this may or may not be the case. if it is, the proper way to solve it would be to upgrade the hardware to be able to handle the load, not to kill a lightweight, immersive and interesting game mechanic.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
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Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1132
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 20:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cekle Skyscales wrote:I don't see a problem here. Ease of use decreases frustration for new players, decreases the learning curve, and makes the game more accessible as a result. A more accessible game means more new subscribers. if ease of use and a flat learning curve are our goals, maybe we should replace our space ships with angry birds and slingshot them at space pigs in wooden fortresses?
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Brainless Bimbo
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
57
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Posted - 2013.05.29 23:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
Cekle Skyscales wrote:I don't see a problem here. Ease of use decreases frustration for new players, decreases the learning curve, and makes the game more accessible as a result. A more accessible game means more new subscribers.
ever heard the expression:
Quality over Quantity
nuff said. CCP-¦s New Motto: Shiny over Substance |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
372
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 03:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
+1 to the OP. This change is completely immersion breaking for me. |
Solutio Letum
Terpene Conglomerate
111
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 04:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Lets compare drone recall to probe recall.
In both cases, once you deploy them 99% of the time you are going to recall them. Any action you have committed to doing 99% of the time is an action that is a candidate for automation as part of "The War on Clicks".
Drones can take a long time to return. That time is tactically important. Removing it by having an instant recall would be a big change. In addition, drone movement is animated. Adding instant movement to them would be a big change and would look odd to see in the middle of a battle. Thus even though automatic instant drone recall is a candidate for automation, its rejected.
Probes travel fast. Most of the delay you see when they are getting into position is really just the server making sure they are where you want them and updating the database. Their movement is not animated in space, they just disappear when the move. Giving them automatic instant recall changes little either tactically or in terms of what is seen in space. Hence this candidate case is accepted.
In addition, I think CCP wants to reduce items cluttering the database. Getting rid of lost probes does a little of that.
Probes disappear from space after 1 hour, this will only minimally change the server Probes need to warp in space, they dont jump drive around, what is this? a science fantasy game now? they clearly have warp drives and have a maximum top speed to move at. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1155
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 16:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:+1 to the OP. This change is completely immersion breaking for me. frankly, i don't even care about immersion that much. the bigger problem is that this new feature is taking another small chunk of EVE's uniqueness among MMOs.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
384
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 16:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
I care about the immersion, and also like the fact you could get trapped in WHs by forgetting them and little mistakes can lead to all kinds of interesting things happening. Just take the battle of Akasi, if CCP had their way then the Titan pilot would have got a confirmation box asking if he is sure he wants to titan jump into null instead of bridge. |
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