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Damon Payne
Ipso iure
0
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Posted - 2011.10.21 11:55:00 -
[31] - Quote
We all have freedom to do what we want. It is your choise to unsub. I personaly will not. I love this game. Nothing so complex and beautiful like EVE is on market, so i stay and play, until i have no fun in it.
You forgot about 1 thing. The World is in a global economic crysis, WHY you think it can not affect CCP too? Are they imune ? CCP is a company, and they can do what ever it takes to prosper.
I fully support my masters from CCP |
Lexmana
Imperial Stout
38
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Posted - 2011.10.21 12:11:00 -
[32] - Quote
Some people just can't get enough drama.
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Hundo Kay
Great White North Exploration Gryphon League
12
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Posted - 2011.10.21 12:17:00 -
[33] - Quote
I assume you will also be taking the keys to your car back to the dealership, returning the clothes you wear back to the store, unsubscribing to you phone and cable, and returning most everything you purchase that needed a plane, train, or semi to haul it somewhere for you to buy it. I mean principals should be applied everywhere and not just to a game.
A company like CCP makes a virtual product and as such has little to no ability to control its costs through inventory reduction, reduced manufacturing, or other avenues. Sure it would be nice for all the CCP senior staff to take a paycut to save 20% of the workforces jobs, but this looks much more like the abandonment of a product then the "do more with less".
If CCP made the decision to abandon development of a platform/game, then why would they not let the people working on it go? Its called a business decision, and when you own a business you get to make those hard decisions.
So kudos for caring, but grow up, the world is a harse place and your "stand" of unsubscribing to a game really is insignificant. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
615
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Posted - 2011.10.21 12:20:00 -
[34] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:20% staff cuts is understandable.
20% staff cuts without laying off the NeX store idiots -> not so much.
The NeX folks are earning their keep. The staff cuts are due to the lack of income. They have to thin down the teams that aren't directly income-earning.
How would you describe a member of the barstaff at your local who is so obnoxious to the customers that around 20% of them quit coming in.
Technically yes, the member of staff is still pouring drinks and "earning" his keep. But in real terms ? He just lost you your profit margin.
NeX is NOT earning its keep. It actually came close to kiling this game. It makes negative profit for CCP by costing subscriptions.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jada Maroo
Mysterium Astrometrics BRABODEN
309
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Posted - 2011.10.21 12:23:00 -
[35] - Quote
Unsub? Hell I might get another account if they keep their promises this time. They're finally doing what we wanted. Time to reward them (if they deliver), not punish them. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
615
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Posted - 2011.10.21 12:27:00 -
[36] - Quote
Jada Maroo wrote:Unsub? Hell I might get another account if they keep their promises this time. They're finally doing what we wanted. Time to reward them (if they deliver), not punish them.
Well if this winter expansion arrives with the promised content and they can manage to avoid putting anything in the NeX store (most especially ship skins) then I'll be resubbing Jade on genuine credit card payments rather than Plex by way of reward for the show of faith.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
313
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Posted - 2011.10.21 12:34:00 -
[37] - Quote
OP, I am sure that you find fellow WoD supporters from this forum who agree with you. However I wish you could try and understand something...
The lay-offs might actually have something to do with WOD draining CCP's resources too thin for EvE and Dust. Continuing in that road without taking necessary actions would just make the situation worse.
Developing 3 games at same time would be great challenge to much more bigger companies than CCP. Eve started to lose subscriptions because players didn't get bang for their buck. These lay-offs are probably inevitable results of global recession and corporate decisions to commit to that previously mentioned vampire game.
It has taken long time for things to escalate down to their current situation. As far I see it, what Hilmar is doing now - he is doing to fix the bad decisions and save the company.
I am sad so see you go, but if you do - at least do it for right reasons (and yes, could I have you stuff?)
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Messoroz
AQUILA INC
41
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Posted - 2011.10.21 12:35:00 -
[38] - Quote
I swear you pubbies try and cry over EVER little thing you that see CCP doing. |
Cpt Fina
The Tuskers
50
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Posted - 2011.10.21 12:40:00 -
[39] - Quote
How can any of us sit on high horses about being moral when instead of playing internet spaceships we could've simply donated our money to people dying in droves from dirty water? |
Comy 1
Ore Mongers Indecisive Certainty
49
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Posted - 2011.10.21 12:42:00 -
[40] - Quote
Headerman wrote:ITT: An idiot OP who somehow got his 'license to use a computer' in a breakfast cereal box
We really should have this. Whatever political party that promise me a licence to use internet in Sweden will have my vote next election. |
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Demetri Slavic
Veto. Veto Corp
3
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Posted - 2011.10.21 12:58:00 -
[41] - Quote
Ciar Meara wrote:
CCP dropbears live events not being axed and killmails for pods indlucing implants (and in the future boosters/SP loss I hope) made me believe they believe and I believe faith needs to be supported.
Live events will be difficult given the team that was running them was content in Atlanta. Most of that team has been fired. |
DatzSik
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.21 12:59:00 -
[42] - Quote
I'm able to post here because Zycuntis was escorted out! I'm one of 2 accounts that were reactivated in celebration of this, the greatest week in Eve. The return of ship spinning and the removal of Zycuntis. I know alot of people are all butthurt over this, but I'm ecstatic! |
March rabbit
Ganse Shadow of xXDEATHXx
17
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Posted - 2011.10.21 13:19:00 -
[43] - Quote
Dradius Calvantia wrote:The choice is not "Cut 20% of our employees or go out of business." There are most likely dozens of other ways that CCP could reduce costs if they really needed to. Probably the best of which is a slight reduction in upper management pay scales. sorry, but i don't believe in your life story. People above school MUST understand that upper management is ALWAYS RIGHT.
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Astor Daeoli
Eye of God Moon Warriors
7
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Posted - 2011.10.21 13:37:00 -
[44] - Quote
Dear Dradius Calvantia,
I don't understand why you wish people to unsub.
Players have argued before you that people should unsub because CCP is not developing meaningful content nor fine tuning the existing core game of EVE. This was a symptom of CCP focusing most of their resources into developing two new titles (WOD and Dust) and a much hated micro transaction system and financing these developments from EVE subscriptions. I understand the logic for unsubing for this.
I do not understand your argument for unsubing from EVE because CCP is laying off staff who are developing WOD. If CCP CAN NOT afford to continue the development of BOTH EVE AND WOD then why unsub from EVE if CCP drops WOD? Why not stay subbed to EVE and send in donations to CCP to keep developing WOD. Dradius Calvantia, if you are rich enough, why not help produce WOD or help CCP find new financing for it?
Regards,
Astor |
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
86
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Posted - 2011.10.21 13:39:00 -
[45] - Quote
Goodbye then. Personally I enjoy playing Eve, but if you dont, then best to unsub, good luck finding a new hobby. |
Lord Ryan
Derailleurs
63
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Posted - 2011.10.21 13:46:00 -
[46] - Quote
sorry, but i don't believe in your life story. People above school MUST understand that upper management is ALWAYS RIGHT. [/quote]
I'm not sure what you just said. In my country the customer is always right or the guy with the Glock. -á
I want to fly a badass Mon Calamari stlye-ácruiser painted to match my Tron clothes. |
Barakkus
862
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Posted - 2011.10.21 13:50:00 -
[47] - Quote
I dunno, over the summer I found a good group of people finally to hang with after playing solo for the most part for 5 years. I've finally gotten into pvping and have a nice way to fund pvping in shiny ships so I've become way more involved in EVE over this past summer than ever before.
...that being said...the CSM is probably one thing that would make me unsub actually...I'm tired of watching these fools ruin a really good game for the rest of us... |
stoicfaux
311
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Posted - 2011.10.21 13:57:00 -
[48] - Quote
Dradius Calvantia wrote: CCP has recently laid off 20% of its workforce; programmers, artists, community managers. Hilmar has labeled this mass lay-off as part of an attempt to "refocus" CCP's priorities. In other words, the people at CCP who have actually listened to our concerns, who have put in the work making EVE what it is, who have in many cases advocated on our behalf are the ones who are paying for the mistakes of CCP's upper management.
Either * CCP doesn't have the money/income to support 20% of its workforce, or * CCP has given up on WoD and no longer needs the WoD resources, so might as well lay them off to save money.
Given that CCP let some prominent Eve people go, it's a safe bet that CCP is having money/income problems.
Quote:This is sadly something that happens all the time, in every industry. When companies start to run into financial pressure, they do not look to upper management to cut payroll costs. Instead they immediately go to the bottom of the pay scale, to the people who are actually being productive. They cut positions where the most harm to the companies capabilities per dollar is done. It is corporate culture at its very worst. That does not mean that it is something I simply accept as the status quo. I do not support companies that treat employees like this.
Meh, you're wrong and waaaaaay too cynical about business. You're essentially assuming that 20% of a private company represents bloated management salaries, top heavy management, gold plated executive toilets, etc., and can be cut without harming the little guy. It's a completely unrealistic assumption.
20% is simply a *huge* number for a layoff. Cuts of that magnitude will hurt a lot, no matter how you slice it.
Tinfoil. It should be at the top of everyone's food pyramid.
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Demetri Slavic
Veto. Veto Corp
3
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Posted - 2011.10.21 14:19:00 -
[49] - Quote
ITT people who think that the EVE Community Team and the EVE content team were working on WOD.....aka Idiots. |
Thomas Abernathy
Viziam Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2011.10.21 14:20:00 -
[50] - Quote
It's so funny that people really believe the "Refocus" stuff. You'd think after all the lies and mis-information that CCP put out earlier this year, some people would be suspicious? You don't refocus by cutting 20% of your staff. You cut 20% of your staff because you made some very bad mistakes and now your paying for it financially.
If you kiddies want this sugarcoated over, due to your inability to understand business concepts, keep believing....but cutting 20% indicates a company in trouble...
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Lexmana
Imperial Stout
39
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Posted - 2011.10.21 14:28:00 -
[51] - Quote
Thomas Abernathy wrote:It's so funny that people really believe the "Refocus" stuff. You'd think after all the lies and mis-information that CCP put out earlier this year, some people would be suspicious? You don't refocus by cutting 20% of your staff. You cut 20% of your staff because you made some very bad mistakes and now your paying for it financially. If you kiddies want this sugarcoated over, due to your inability to understand business concepts, keep believing....but cutting 20% indicates a company in trouble...
No kidding. You think they have financial problems???
I for one think they are doing it right by refocusing on their core business. |
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
86
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Posted - 2011.10.21 14:30:00 -
[52] - Quote
Thomas Abernathy wrote:It's so funny that people really believe the "Refocus" stuff. You'd think after all the lies and mis-information that CCP put out earlier this year, some people would be suspicious? You don't refocus by cutting 20% of your staff. You cut 20% of your staff because you made some very bad mistakes and now your paying for it financially. If you kiddies want this sugarcoated over, due to your inability to understand business concepts, keep believing....but cutting 20% indicates a company in trouble...
Right, thanks Mr Business COnsultant. I assume you will also be unsubbing before CCP collapses? Is that the sky I hear falling? Oh no sorry its the sound of all the idiots stomping around trying to sound relevent/clever. |
Ana Vyr
86
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Posted - 2011.10.21 14:34:00 -
[53] - Quote
We aren't here to keep these guys in business. We are here to play the game we love playing. If CCP chooses to screw with that, then they reap what they sow, sadly. |
MaxxOmega
Temporal Mechanics
0
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Posted - 2011.10.21 14:47:00 -
[54] - Quote
That would be the day I'd quit the game I love over job losses.
The company I worked for got sold and 95% of us lost our jobs, like 4000 people. For the first time in 20 years I was out of work. I ended up in a better job in a better company, which is true of many of us.
A few people had to sell their furniture to eat but I didn't like them anyways... |
Partsking
Ardent Spirits BricK sQuAD.
11
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Posted - 2011.10.21 14:49:00 -
[55] - Quote
It's a business thang. OP wouldn't understand.
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Igualmentedos
Shadow Veil Industrial Shadow Directive
23
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Posted - 2011.10.21 15:57:00 -
[56] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:It sucks, but it's not really our business how CCP is run. We should really only be interested in how EVE is run.
PS Since you're posting that from a PC, which will be largely made from parts produced in Chinese factories who literally work their staff to death, your concern with supporting corporate cultures seems to be unevenly applied, to say the least.
Holy ****. Will you have my babies Malcanis?
I'm glad someone on these forums is not ********. OP, stop being such a little *****. It's extremely unfortunate what happened (my regards go out to those without a job), but let's be honest, the economy is dragging and CCP made mistakes which they now have to fix. **** happens. Unsubbing because a business is doing it's best to stay afloat is so far off the mark it's ********. What if enough people unsub and CCP fires everyone? Will you feel like captain humanity after that? Damn man. |
Montevius Williams
Trigger works
10
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Posted - 2011.10.21 16:01:00 -
[57] - Quote
Dradius Calvantia wrote:Despite the fact that I did not agree with the direction that CCP was taking with EVE, I never unsubed my account during NeXgate. In the end, this came down to the fact that I still had fun playing EVE. The game play that I had enjoyed for so long was still compelling, and I enjoyed spending my free time blowing up spaceships with my friends. I advocated strongly for my positions on MT and the state of FIS, but I never stopped playing the game.
That may change next month.
Up until this point, every objection I have had towards CCP has been on the basis of game mechanics, or where they put their development time. They were differences of opinion about somethings that in all honesty are not that terribly important. Now however, CCP has done something that I find moral reprehensible; something that has an impact on more than a hundred peoples lives.
CCP has recently laid off 20% of its workforce; programmers, artists, community managers. Hilmar has labeled this mass lay-off as part of an attempt to "refocus" CCP's priorities. In other words, the people at CCP who have actually listened to our concerns, who have put in the work making EVE what it is, who have in many cases advocated on our behalf are the ones who are paying for the mistakes of CCP's upper management.
This is sadly something that happens all the time, in every industry. When companies start to run into financial pressure, they do not look to upper management to cut payroll costs. Instead they immediately go to the bottom of the pay scale, to the people who are actually being productive. They cut positions where the most harm to the companies capabilities per dollar is done. It is corporate culture at its very worst. That does not mean that it is something I simply accept as the status quo. I do not support companies that treat employees like this.
This means, that come next month when my subscription is up I will not be continuing my account. This is a terrible shame, as this comes at a time when I could not be happier with the direction the game seems to be heading. Some things are more important than internet space ships however.
A large number of the people I fly with are also considering letting their subs lapse. A few people in Rote went inactive during the summer, but it was not because they were outraged at CCP. It was in most cases simply because they had gotten bored with the game. It was not something we had huge discussions about, occasionally someone would just mention that they were unsubbing to take a break for a while. Some of them have come back and are flying with us again, some of them are waiting until this winter. Either way, it was never something that significantly disrupted alliance operations.
This time around, there are quite a few people in Rote who are livid over CCP's actions. People are actively trying to get others to unsub with them over this, and a 10 page thread about this poped up nearly instantly on our forums (which usually go weeks with out much more than a few CTA threads.) I can tell you, those of us who have friends at CCP, and those of us who have been affected by the same upper management mentality care about this.
EVE has a lot of emo people. Dude, HTFU or GTFO.
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Race Drones
13th Squadron E C L I P S E
3
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Posted - 2011.10.21 17:10:00 -
[58] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:It sucks, but it's not really our business how CCP is run. We should really only be interested in how EVE is run.
+1 |
Kirith Vespira
Just Abide
3
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Posted - 2011.10.21 17:13:00 -
[59] - Quote
Yeah, bring on more failquitters who fail to quit. It was quite amusing last time. :) |
Raquel Smith
Freedom-Technologies The Jagged Alliance
17
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Posted - 2011.10.21 17:14:00 -
[60] - Quote
Dradius Calvantia wrote:This means, that come next month when my subscription is up I will not be continuing my account.
Sweet.
Can I have your stuff? |
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