Originally by: Ithildin

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Originally by: franny

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can we get a clearafication on the ships with small bays
the enyo currently has a 5m3 dronebay
halfing the dronebay to 2.5m3 = 0 drones, gallente are drone race, prettymuch all our ships(indys excluded) have space for at least 1 drone

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They'll be rounded up. Go back a few pages and you'll see Tuxford answering this question.

Originally by: Jim Raynor

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Originally by: Tuxford

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Changing racial damage types to all damage types.

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Ishtar with max skill does almost about 20% more damage with drones than my Cerberus does with 5 heavy launcher II, and 4 dread gurista ballistic control, and only if I use scourge missiles and maxed out launcher skills.. and the Ishtar can fix weapons and drone modules on top of that..

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Except that there's no such thing as drone modules. And that drones are even less direct damage weapons than missiles. And that drones don't do same damage as same sized drones but with different damage type.

Otherwise you are correct that something needs be done about missiles in order for the kinetic missiles to do most damage, but maintain attractiveness of other missiles by other bonuses (such as doing more damage against smaller targets, but less against larger).

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Originally by: Forsch

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Originally by: Maya Rkell

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Diverse damage ALLWAYS has a price in total done. It's why the minmatar have a lower overall damage. Going from +10% thermal to +10% all is too potent. +5% to all, +7.5% thermal and +2.5% others or even, if you must, +10% thermal and +5% others would be far more appropriate.

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The damage should stay the same as it is now. For all drones. If it means +10% damage then it should be +10%.
Stop trying to get others nerfed just because you are unhappy with the weapons you use.

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Originally by: Forsch

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Originally by: franny

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can we get a clearafication on the ships with small bays
the enyo currently has a 5m3 dronebay
halfing the dronebay to 2.5m3 = 0 drones, gallente are drone race, prettymuch all our ships(indys excluded) have space for at least 1 drone

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Tuxford said already, those numbers will be rounded up.

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Quote:

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Except that there's no such thing as drone modules. And that drones are even less direct damage weapons than missiles. And that drones don't do same damage as same sized drones but with different damage type.

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Quote:

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Otherwise you are correct that something needs be done about missiles in order for the kinetic missiles to do most damage, but maintain attractiveness of other missiles by other bonuses (such as doing more damage against smaller targets, but less against larger).

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Quote:

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Except that there's no such thing as drone modules. And that drones are even less direct damage weapons than missiles. And that drones don't do same damage as same sized drones but with different damage type.

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Quote:

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Otherwise you are correct that something needs be done about missiles in order for the kinetic missiles to do most damage, but maintain attractiveness of other missiles by other bonuses (such as doing more damage against smaller targets, but less against larger).

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Originally by: Farjung

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Originally by: Ithildin

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Except that there's no such thing as drone modules.

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Um, but there will be. What with this thread being called "New drones, modules and what not" ;p

Originally by: Blog

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What about modules?

Well they are not many and not that complex. So far there are three of them. One increases the damage output of all combat drones, one increases your drone control range and another boosts the optimal range and tracking on drones.

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Originally by: Dethra

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Edited by: Dethra on 01/11/2005 21:01:17
Edited by: Dethra on 01/11/2005 21:00:23
let me start out by saying you'll have to forgive me; I didn't read all 700ish posts (23 pages) first. I know, someone's probably already posted this.

Here's the problem: The thermal damage bonus only.
Since it's percentage based, you can only use drones that do thermal damage, like the gallente specific ones. Thus, only ogres are affected by this bonus; which, you coudl say is cool, because they're gallente drones, and gallentes are the oens with all the drone stuff.

HOWEVER, there are other races that have drone-boats. Arbitrator, Typhoon, etc. These boats now have to use ogres too, if htey want their drones to do as much as gallente drones do (with drone interfacing at any level, since it's thermal damage only.) This means it's utterly pointless to train for tech 2 drones besides ogres. You are in effect eliminating the point of having any drones besides gallente drones from the game.

My main point, restated, is this: The thermal damage bonus will only affect gallente drones, meaning for anyone specializing in other drone types, drone interfacing is pointless, thus if you specialize in other drone types, you will always do less damage than gallente drones (because drone interfacing wont affect your drones.) This means it's pointless to use any drones besides gallente for damage. (may as well throw away your berserker II's, Wasp II's, and Praetor II's now.)

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Originally by: Dethra

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Edited by: Dethra on 01/11/2005 21:00:23
let me start out by saying you'll have to forgive me; I didn't read all 700ish posts (23 pages) first. I know, someone's probably already posted this.

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Originally by: Dethra

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Edited by: Dethra on 01/11/2005 21:01:17
Edited by: Dethra on 01/11/2005 21:00:23
let me start out by saying you'll have to forgive me; I didn't read all 700ish posts (23 pages) first. I know, someone's probably already posted this.

Here's the problem: The thermal damage bonus only.
Since it's percentage based, you can only use drones that do thermal damage, like the gallente specific ones. Thus, only ogres are affected by this bonus; which, you coudl say is cool, because they're gallente drones, and gallentes are the oens with all the drone stuff.

HOWEVER, there are other races that have drone-boats. Arbitrator, Typhoon, etc. These boats now have to use ogres too, if htey want their drones to do as much as gallente drones do (with drone interfacing at any level, since it's thermal damage only.) This means it's utterly pointless to train for tech 2 drones besides ogres. You are in effect eliminating the point of having any drones besides gallente drones from the game.

My main point, restated, is this: The thermal damage bonus will only affect gallente drones, meaning for anyone specializing in other drone types, drone interfacing is pointless, thus if you specialize in other drone types, you will always do less damage than gallente drones (because drone interfacing wont affect your drones.) This means it's pointless to use any drones besides gallente for damage. (may as well throw away your berserker II's, Wasp II's, and Praetor II's now.)

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Originally by: Jim Raynor
Considering Gallente drone ships (which do more damage than caldari missile ships) can do any damage type with any drone and maintain their bonuses, I see no reason why caldari missile ships should not get their bonus applied to all missiles.

If Gallente were constrained to thermal, i'd be okay with Caldari being "stuck" with kinetic as well. Seeing as how CCP has changed their mind on Gallente ships, I'd really like them to consider changing their mind on that kinetic missile bonus on Caldari ships too.[/quote

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Because for missiles it was a bonus. For the drones, it is just keeping them up to par with the damage that they do now. In effect, the +1 drone per level and the 10% extra damage per level is the same bonus. No one complained when they got an extra drone per level.

Originally by: Jim Raynor
Considering Gallente drone ships (which do more damage than caldari missile ships) can do any damage type with any drone and maintain their bonuses, I see no reason why caldari missile ships should not get their bonus applied to all missiles.

If Gallente were constrained to thermal, i'd be okay with Caldari being "stuck" with kinetic as well. Seeing as how CCP has changed their mind on Gallente ships, I'd really like them to consider changing their mind on that kinetic missile bonus on Caldari ships too.[/quote

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Because for missiles it was a bonus. For the drones, it is just keeping them up to par with the damage that they do now. In effect, the +1 drone per level and the 10% extra damage per level is the same bonus. No one complained when they got an extra drone per level.

Originally by: Hllaxiu

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Originally by: Dethra

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Edited by: Dethra on 01/11/2005 21:00:23
let me start out by saying you'll have to forgive me; I didn't read all 700ish posts (23 pages) first. I know, someone's probably already posted this.

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Thats all 20 pages of posts are because around page 20 Tuxford posted that it was going to be all damage types instead of just thermal/em.

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Originally by: Hllaxiu

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Originally by: Dethra

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Edited by: Dethra on 01/11/2005 21:00:23
let me start out by saying you'll have to forgive me; I didn't read all 700ish posts (23 pages) first. I know, someone's probably already posted this.

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Thats all 20 pages of posts are because around page 20 Tuxford posted that it was going to be all damage types instead of just thermal/em.

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Quote:

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Because for missiles it was a bonus. For the drones, it is just keeping them up to par with the damage that they do now. In effect, the +1 drone per level and the 10% extra damage per level is the same bonus. No one complained when they got an extra drone per level.

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Quote:

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Because for missiles it was a bonus. For the drones, it is just keeping them up to par with the damage that they do now. In effect, the +1 drone per level and the 10% extra damage per level is the same bonus. No one complained when they got an extra drone per level.

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Originally by: Jim Raynor

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Quote:

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Because for missiles it was a bonus. For the drones, it is just keeping them up to par with the damage that they do now. In effect, the +1 drone per level and the 10% extra damage per level is the same bonus. No one complained when they got an extra drone per level.

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Cerberus:
*Max Skills (heavy missile spec 4)*
5 Heavy Launcher II w/ non scourge = 135.7 DPS
5 Heavy Launcher II w/ scourge = 169.6 DPS

Ishtar:
*Max Skills*
15(5) Ogre II = 396 DPS

Considering heavy missile launcher IIs actually take fitting, the Cerberus looks rather pathetic straight out of the box, adding 4 faction ballistics will get you in the 325 DPS ballpark.. still less than an Ishtar who justs puts drones in his bay and sends them at you. Good luck fitting those t2 ballistics, 40 cpu pretty much ruins your setups, which were hardly overpowering to begin with, thanks CCP.

So really, throwing the Caldari that 5% all missile damage bone, wouldn't exactly imbalance much, considering the pathetic DPS of launchers at the moment.

While this certainly isn't a missile thread, I just find it lame that Gallente and their stupid drones might have been balanced out a bit, and they too would have to deal with racial constraints just like Caldari ships must deal with, but it seems CCP would rather just put that burden on Caldari ships and no one else, well, whatever.

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Originally by: Jim Raynor

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Quote:

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Because for missiles it was a bonus. For the drones, it is just keeping them up to par with the damage that they do now. In effect, the +1 drone per level and the 10% extra damage per level is the same bonus. No one complained when they got an extra drone per level.

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Cerberus:
*Max Skills (heavy missile spec 4)*
5 Heavy Launcher II w/ non scourge = 135.7 DPS
5 Heavy Launcher II w/ scourge = 169.6 DPS

Ishtar:
*Max Skills*
15(5) Ogre II = 396 DPS

Considering heavy missile launcher IIs actually take fitting, the Cerberus looks rather pathetic straight out of the box, adding 4 faction ballistics will get you in the 325 DPS ballpark.. still less than an Ishtar who justs puts drones in his bay and sends them at you. Good luck fitting those t2 ballistics, 40 cpu pretty much ruins your setups, which were hardly overpowering to begin with, thanks CCP.

So really, throwing the Caldari that 5% all missile damage bone, wouldn't exactly imbalance much, considering the pathetic DPS of launchers at the moment.

While this certainly isn't a missile thread, I just find it lame that Gallente and their stupid drones might have been balanced out a bit, and they too would have to deal with racial constraints just like Caldari ships must deal with, but it seems CCP would rather just put that burden on Caldari ships and no one else, well, whatever.

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Originally by: Jim Raynor

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While this certainly isn't a missile thread, I just find it lame that Gallente and their stupid drones might have been balanced out a bit, and they too would have to deal with racial constraints just like Caldari ships must deal with, but it seems CCP would rather just put that burden on Caldari ships and no one else, well, whatever.

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Originally by: Jim Raynor

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While this certainly isn't a missile thread, I just find it lame that Gallente and their stupid drones might have been balanced out a bit, and they too would have to deal with racial constraints just like Caldari ships must deal with, but it seems CCP would rather just put that burden on Caldari ships and no one else, well, whatever.

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Originally by: Luc Boye

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drone range is also greater then cerberus range... oh wait, it isnt.

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Quote:

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Also, when cerberus is about to get scrambled it can warp off, but unfortunately it leaves its launchers behind... oh wait it doesn't.

And so on.

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Originally by: Luc Boye

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drone range is also greater then cerberus range... oh wait, it isnt.

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Quote:

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Also, when cerberus is about to get scrambled it can warp off, but unfortunately it leaves its launchers behind... oh wait it doesn't.

And so on.

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Originally by: Jim Raynor
Well having 0 grid 0 cpu 400 DPS weapons should have some drawbacks.. no?[/quote

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It's called running out of ammo when the ammo gets hit twice by a large smartbomb.