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Theodore Giumbix
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.06.01 13:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
The title pretty much says it all. An AFK / IDLE icon next to or above players standing icon in local chat for players AFK more than 5 minutes. Similar like in IRC. Would REALLY improve chatting in local The Tek - a show that covers hardware, pc games, indie games, legal policies that pertain to technology, the internet, and nerd culture at https://teksyndicate.com |
Omnathious Deninard
The Scope Gallente Federation
1097
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Posted - 2013.06.01 14:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
I have a better idea, remove local. Ideas For Drone Improvement Repourpose Deep Space Scanner Probes |
Theodore Giumbix
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.06.01 14:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:I have a better idea, remove local.
And then how would I chat and connect with the people I meet? The Tek - a show that covers hardware, pc games, indie games, legal policies that pertain to technology, the internet, and nerd culture at https://teksyndicate.com |
Ellendras Silver
Axial tilt
17
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Posted - 2013.06.01 14:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:I have a better idea, remove local.
move to WH space and you are granted your wish. removing local in other spaces would be bad for eve |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
771
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Posted - 2013.06.01 14:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:I have a better idea, remove local.
And then complain about 150km radius around the null sec gates full of bubbles and cloacky alts scouting them to gank you at will. Believe it or not if local was to be removed from null sec you couldn't go anywhere or do whatever and what would be the point of such bad idea without the protection of depletable huge sand castles like wh's gates?
Local is as informative to the attacker as it is to the defender, thus no need for changes in null sec or low sec or high sec. But I'd like to light a cyno in wh's and bridge in large fleets from null if you're ok to have some more fun and pvp, show us how bad we are or complain a couple months later why you got back to high sec.
Yep, we can't have the cake and eat it I know, wh's are there for this. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Theodore Giumbix
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.06.01 14:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ellendras Silver wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:I have a better idea, remove local. move to WH space and you are granted your wish. removing local in other spaces would be bad for eve My lady you are quoting from CCP Soundwave: EVE Fanfest 2013: Game Design - Balancing Tears & Laughter The Tek - a show that covers hardware, pc games, indie games, legal policies that pertain to technology, the internet, and nerd culture at https://teksyndicate.com |
Omnathious Deninard
The Scope Gallente Federation
1097
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Posted - 2013.06.01 14:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
Then deal with afk players like the rest of us do, or is this a stealth nerf afk cloaking thread? Ideas For Drone Improvement Repourpose Deep Space Scanner Probes |
Theodore Giumbix
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.06.01 14:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Then deal with afk players like the rest of us do, or is this a stealth nerf afk cloaking thread? No Sir, this is a thread designed to improve communication in EVE Online between players and help them connect faster. The Tek - a show that covers hardware, pc games, indie games, legal policies that pertain to technology, the internet, and nerd culture at https://teksyndicate.com |
Omnathious Deninard
The Scope Gallente Federation
1097
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Posted - 2013.06.01 14:46:00 -
[9] - Quote
Theodore Giumbix wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Then deal with afk players like the rest of us do, or is this a stealth nerf afk cloaking thread? No Sir, this is a thread designed to improve communication in EVE Online between players and help them connect faster. then I could see this feature in, Corp, Alliance, and any player opened chat channel but not local. Ideas For Drone Improvement Repourpose Deep Space Scanner Probes |
Theodore Giumbix
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.06.01 14:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:then I could see this feature in, Corp, Alliance, and any player opened chat channel but not local. So if I am a newbie I'm not allowed to benefit from this feature and chat with other newbies in local chat in my lovely high-sec constellation? This makes no sense. The Tek - a show that covers hardware, pc games, indie games, legal policies that pertain to technology, the internet, and nerd culture at https://teksyndicate.com |
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Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
178
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Posted - 2013.06.01 14:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Then deal with afk players like the rest of us do, or is this a stealth nerf afk cloaking thread? It's actually a "buff afk cloaking" thread. For the first couple times people will be at ease once they see the AFK icon. And then they will end up getting ganked when they go about their business. Soon afterwards we will get "nerf AFK cloaking & AFK icons" thread.
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Omnathious Deninard
The Scope Gallente Federation
1097
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Posted - 2013.06.01 15:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
Theodore Giumbix wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:then I could see this feature in, Corp, Alliance, and any player opened chat channel but not local. So if I am a newbie I'm not allowed to benefit from this feature and chat with other newbies in local chat in my lovely high-sec constellation? This makes no sense. Corp chat Ideas For Drone Improvement Repourpose Deep Space Scanner Probes |
Theodore Giumbix
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.06.01 15:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Theodore Giumbix wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:then I could see this feature in, Corp, Alliance, and any player opened chat channel but not local. So if I am a newbie I'm not allowed to benefit from this feature and chat with other newbies in local chat in my lovely high-sec constellation? This makes no sense. Corp chat Because you say so? See I don't like to be told what to do or with who to speak or not in a game for which I pay to play with my own money.
This thread was made to support an idea. You should argue why this is a good idea or not, not to tell me what to do or not to do. The Tek - a show that covers hardware, pc games, indie games, legal policies that pertain to technology, the internet, and nerd culture at https://teksyndicate.com |
Omnathious Deninard
The Scope Gallente Federation
1097
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 15:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
Theodore Giumbix wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Theodore Giumbix wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:then I could see this feature in, Corp, Alliance, and any player opened chat channel but not local. So if I am a newbie I'm not allowed to benefit from this feature and chat with other newbies in local chat in my lovely high-sec constellation? This makes no sense. Corp chat Because you say so? See I don't like to be told what to do or with who to speak or not in a game for which I pay to play with my own money. This thread was made to support an idea. You should argue why this is a good idea or not, not to tell me what to do or not to do. It is a bad idea as it provides even more intel for local chat, if only applied to Corp chat, Alliance Chat, and Player Created Chat channels. Ideas For Drone Improvement Repourpose Deep Space Scanner Probes |
T'Laar Bok
81
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Posted - 2013.06.01 15:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
If it gets implemented at all it should only be available while in station. Amphetimines are your friend.
http://eveboard.com/pilot/T'Laar_Bok |
Theodore Giumbix
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 15:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:It is a bad idea as it provides even more intel for local chat, if only applied to Corp chat, Alliance Chat, and Player Created Chat channels. And why more intel is bad? A system full with AFK people is the same thing as an empty system, which helps you by not wasting time and this is the only extra thing you get as "intel". How is this bad exactly? The Tek - a show that covers hardware, pc games, indie games, legal policies that pertain to technology, the internet, and nerd culture at https://teksyndicate.com |
Astroniomix
Cryptic Meta-4
457
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Posted - 2013.06.01 15:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Then deal with afk players like the rest of us do, or is this a stealth nerf afk cloaking thread? It's actually a "buff afk cloaking" thread. For the first couple times people will be at ease once they see the AFK icon. And then they will end up getting ganked when they go about their business. Soon afterwards we will get "nerf AFK cloaking & AFK icons" thread. No it's a nerf because the cloaked ship is going to have to move before he can do anything. (unless the victim somehow wandered within point range on his own) So everyone is going to see the "afk" tag disappear and dock up. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
2543
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Posted - 2013.06.01 17:06:00 -
[18] - Quote
Theodore Giumbix wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:It is a bad idea as it provides even more intel for local chat, if only applied to Corp chat, Alliance Chat, and Player Created Chat channels. And why more intel is bad? A system full with AFK people is the same thing as an empty system, which helps you by not wasting time and this is the only extra thing you get as "intel". How is this bad exactly? OP... welcome to a game where the ENTIRE playerbase has a notorious reputation to abuse and twist any mechanic that gives them a distinct advantage AND any mechanic change (even a well intended one) has repercussions that go above and beyond the original scope of its intent.
Having more intel tools is good... when you actually have to put effort into using them. Simply getting more intel because of a mechanic that is always there, cannot be fooled, and cannot be turned off (see: Local) is one sided and bad.
Your idea... while well intended... will cause issues for cloakers, miners, ambush tactics, bait tactics, bluff tactics, etc (because they all rely on patience and/or misinformation). Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
84
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Posted - 2013.06.01 17:11:00 -
[19] - Quote
And if you'd searched you could've prevented the flaming you are getting right now.
No to this in Local, Yes to this for Corp, Private and Alliance chats. My Feature\Idea:-á Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee"
Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |
Ellendras Silver
Axial tilt
17
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Posted - 2013.06.01 17:19:00 -
[20] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Theodore Giumbix wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Theodore Giumbix wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:then I could see this feature in, Corp, Alliance, and any player opened chat channel but not local. So if I am a newbie I'm not allowed to benefit from this feature and chat with other newbies in local chat in my lovely high-sec constellation? This makes no sense. Corp chat Because you say so? See I don't like to be told what to do or with who to speak or not in a game for which I pay to play with my own money. This thread was made to support an idea. You should argue why this is a good idea or not, not to tell me what to do or not to do. It is a bad idea as it provides even more intel for local chat, if only applied to Corp chat, Alliance Chat, and Player Created Chat channels it would be fine.
you sir are pathetic in every post that remotly is about cloaking, intel, PVP or afk tactics you post the remove local well newsflash no local is bit of the point of WH space. i do agree that its intel part is too strong but i think the same about afk cloakies not that i am annoyed by them as i live in WH space. |
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Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
1771
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 17:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
Don't put words into CCP's mouth. Cherry picking over his words to suggest that he agrees with you is very disingenuous.
I watched that, and his point was not removing local would be bad, but that it performed a function as an intel tool that would need to be replaced and verified as viable as a replacement. And he also specified that null / empire / wormholes were all completely different play experiences.
It is highly misleading to claim the only significant difference between Null & WH space is the presence of local chat. The suggestion moving to WH space solves this interest for null players is equally foolish.
For those who may not be aware of differences beyond local: How else is Null different from a WH:
Live and stable gate connections to other sections of space, and between internal systems. Outposts, NPC and player built both. This includes the sub category of med clones and jump clones as an additional difference. The Market. Present in all it's glory, even if only stocked by player activity and some minor NPC items. Cyno capability, both covert and regular. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Ellendras Silver
Axial tilt
17
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 17:22:00 -
[22] - Quote
Maximus Aerelius wrote:And if you'd searched you could've prevented the flaming you are getting right now.
No to this in Local, Yes to this for Corp, Private and Alliance chats.
riddle me this, why dont you move to WH space as you hate local so much |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
1771
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 17:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ellendras Silver wrote:you sir are pathetic in every post that remotly is about cloaking, intel, PVP or afk tactics you post the remove local well newsflash no local is bit of the point of WH space. i do agree that its intel part is too strong but i think the same about afk cloakies not that i am annoyed by them as i live in WH space. Then this has no impact on you, why are you interfering with other play styles? Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
1771
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 17:25:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ellendras Silver wrote:Maximus Aerelius wrote:And if you'd searched you could've prevented the flaming you are getting right now.
No to this in Local, Yes to this for Corp, Private and Alliance chats. riddle me this, why dont you move to WH space as you hate local so much Why are you suggesting wormhole space is the same as null except for local?
As one claiming to play there, are you truly oblivious to the other differences? Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Ellendras Silver
Axial tilt
17
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 17:34:00 -
[25] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Ellendras Silver wrote:Maximus Aerelius wrote:And if you'd searched you could've prevented the flaming you are getting right now.
No to this in Local, Yes to this for Corp, Private and Alliance chats. riddle me this, why dont you move to WH space as you hate local so much Why are you suggesting wormhole space is the same as null except for local? As one claiming to play there, are you truly oblivious to the other differences?
i am not suggesting that WH space is the same as null except local, i am just saying that if someone hates local so much that he has to stick his remove local as the solution to everything that he would be better off to move to WH space that are my words and nothing less and nothing more |
Astroniomix
Cryptic Meta-4
458
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 18:27:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ellendras Silver wrote: i am not suggesting that WH space is the same as null except local,
Then stop telling people to go there. |
Theodore Giumbix
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 20:23:00 -
[27] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:I watched that, and his point was not removing local would be bad, but that it performed a function as an intel tool that would need to be replaced and verified as viable as a replacement.
INTEL IS GOOD. PERIOD. Think like that. We here on Earth, in this modern age, we have a social security number, a home address, medical status, schools we went, work history, data is created and collected about you since the day you are born and lots of stuff about you can be found on internet or other places if you know what and where to look for. Also every electronic device that is connected to the internet or to a network collects data about you. These days you can't live and not be known about.
EVE IS FROM THE FUTURE. You think in the future people will stop collect data? In EVE you are born in a stations made by men, you fly ships made by men, travel through gates made by men, live in a community formed by men, data is being collected by you whatever you like it or not. Local was made so we all find out about each other existence, to get to know each other and to bond.. or hate each others. It's a very useful and normal intel tool in a MMORPG. How do you think people would god to know each other if local wouldn't existed at all? We would all convo each others in stations? Spamming few thousand of players in one NPC corp chat? Dropping cans in space and naming them "hey i was here"? This all "local is bad" is pure bullshit. We would all be living in dark without knowing of each other existence. Having intel about you existence and presence is very normal and GOOD. You want people in EVE to not know about you? Then delete your eve client. The Tek - a show that covers hardware, pc games, indie games, legal policies that pertain to technology, the internet, and nerd culture at https://teksyndicate.com |
Astroniomix
Cryptic Meta-4
459
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 21:42:00 -
[28] - Quote
Theodore Giumbix wrote:Nikk Narrel wrote:I watched that, and his point was not removing local would be bad, but that it performed a function as an intel tool that would need to be replaced and verified as viable as a replacement. INTEL IS GOOD. PERIOD. Think like that. We here on Earth, in this modern age, we have a social security number, a home address, medical status, schools we went, work history, data is created and collected about you since the day you are born and lots of stuff about you can be found on internet or other places if you know what and where to look for. Also every electronic device that is connected to the internet or to a network collects data about you. These days you can't live and not be known about. EVE IS FROM THE FUTURE. You think in the future people will stop collect data? In EVE you are born in a stations made by men, you fly ships made by men, travel through gates made by men, live in a community formed by men, data is being collected about you whatever you like it or not. Local was made so we all find out about each other existence, to get to know each other and to bond.. or hate each others. It's a very useful and normal intel tool in a MMORPG. How do you think people would got to know each other if local wouldn't existed at all? We would all convo each others in stations? Spamming few thousand of players in one NPC corp chat? Dropping cans in space and naming them "hey i was here"? This all "local is bad" is pure bullshit. We would all be living in dark without knowing of each other existence. Having intel about your existence and presence is very normal and GOOD. You want people in EVE to not know about you? Then delete your eve client. None of this is a valid argument for why local needs to tell you whether someone is afk or not. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
1773
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 21:46:00 -
[29] - Quote
Theodore Giumbix wrote:Nikk Narrel wrote:I watched that, and his point was not removing local would be bad, but that it performed a function as an intel tool that would need to be replaced and verified as viable as a replacement. INTEL IS GOOD. PERIOD. Think like that. We here on Earth, in this modern age, we have a social security number, a home address, medical status, schools we went, work history, data is created and collected about you since the day you are born and lots of stuff about you can be found on internet or other places if you know what and where to look for. Also every electronic device that is connected to the internet or to a network collects data about you. These days you can't live and not be known about. EVE IS FROM THE FUTURE. You think in the future people will stop collect data? In EVE you are born in a stations made by men, you fly ships made by men, travel through gates made by men, live in a community formed by men, data is being collected about you whatever you like it or not. Local was made so we all find out about each other existence, to get to know each other and to bond.. or hate each others. It's a very useful and normal intel tool in a MMORPG. How do you think people would got to know each other if local wouldn't existed at all? We would all convo each others in stations? Spamming few thousand of players in one NPC corp chat? Dropping cans in space and naming them "hey i was here"? This all "local is bad" is pure bullshit. We would all be living in dark without knowing of each other existence. Having intel about your existence and presence is very normal and GOOD. You want people in EVE to not know about you? Then delete your eve client. Thank you for spelling that out so neatly. It saves me from needing to establish many of those points myself.
You misunderstand if you assume I want players acting without intel. You are also confused if you think I want to collect kill mails. I am a miner.
I want the miners in other corps to explode more often, so I can make the effort they failed at and compete. My ore sales have more value when they don't have ore to sell.
As you point out we have high technology, and amazing automated potential. Yet we find PvP to be disturbingly manual in orientation. We know from NPC examples that they can perform ship control at many levels of skill with automation. From easy to beat up to coordinated and lethal. But we want to compete, and so it is under our control.
Then we have intel. Local hands it to us, in such a reliable and absolute form, it is possible for PvE pilots to use it and avoid all hostiles so long as they prepared. The PvP pilot cannot counter this, but they can cloak and force a stalemate of frustration.
We should have intel tools requiring effort to use, and as such allowing us to fail to use them when needed. The side with the best effort will have an advantage when they PvP then, it would not hand them free kill mails. But it would help them earn these, if they did it right. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
2545
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 21:49:00 -
[30] - Quote
Theodore Giumbix wrote:This all "local is bad" is pure bullshit. We would all be living in dark without knowing of each other existence. Having intel about your existence and presence is very normal and GOOD. You want people in EVE to not know about you? Then delete your eve client. You seem to be missing the context that the argument of "get rid of Local" stems from.
Right now...
in 0.0 space people exist in an environment where if Local chat is not completely populated by "blue people" (see: "friendlies") everyone docks up and/or logs off.
This reality has been the bane of "conventional" skirmish warfare because as soon as you enter a system, you show up in Local chat and the entire system is aware of your presence... resulting in everyone doing the above (running, hiding, and logging off). And your announcement in system is so fast (before you even load completely) that it's damn near impossible to catch people who don't want to fight (unless they're being stupid and/or afk).
Enter cloaking ships.
In order to get around the "Local problem" people now get a ship with a cloak into a system, fly it to a deep safespot, and keep it "active" and cloaked everyday from downtime to downtime. This presents the local inhabitants a choice; do they stay docked up doing nothing... or do they take the chance that the cloaking ship might actually be active and that it will find them, lock them down, and kill them (either solo or by bridging in a larger force)? Can they get a PvP support gang if they choose the latter option? Should the modify their PvE ships to better defend themselves? Is the cloaked ship even capable of attacking or is it a bluff?
Right now there is a balance (however twisted) with the current state of things. They know you are there, but they don't know what you are doing.
What your "afk indicator" does is upset this balance. It gives people who are leery of cloaking ships the ability to see if they are active or simply bluffing. If a cloaking ship is stated as being afk in local, and then stops being so... everyone docks up and we're back to people being perfectly safe behind Local's omnipresent intel.
Orwell's future may be coming true in the real world... but it makes for bad play in a game. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
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