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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Roedrene
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Posted - 2005.11.03 20:32:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Roedrene on 03/11/2005 20:37:39 Afternoon all. Wanted to let everyone know about a brand new way to make ISK in Eve that Senior GM Grimmi told me about today.
A few days ago I bought a set of bookmarks via escrow. As you know, when you inspect an escrow you can usually see what each item is -- however, in the case of instas/bookmarks, you can only see a count of how many marks are in the escrow, and NOT see the name of each.
Being fairly new to the game, I plunked down my millions and headed over -- only to find that the container held hundreds of copies of the same bookmark. Ouch. Last time I'll do that. Let's put a stop to it...
I petitioned and supplied all the information the GMs would need to stop the seller and return the ISK -- but instead, I was told that this is legal and GM-approved!
So reduce those mining trips and stop missioning -- you're one of the first to hear about this new approved way of making ISKs. Load up your escrows with fake bookmarks, spread 'em around, and earn easy ISK the "legally scamming" way.
Rather than act on this scam, the GMs are approving it for all. Shame that my ISK couldn't be returned, and instead the scam has been blown open game-wide with open arms for all to take advantage of.
Here's the info from my last message on my petition, have at it. Couldn't be any clearer:
"Hi Roedrene. Senior GM Grimmi here. We senior GMs have discussed this issue and our finding is that we cannot give you back the ISK since this is simply a case of legal scamming that is allowed in EVE and I fear we cannot intervene on your part. We regret the loss you have suffered and wish you a speedy recovery from this setback and the best of luck in the world of EVE as well as the real one. Best regards, GM Grimmi"
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Zeromancer
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Posted - 2005.11.03 20:47:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Zeromancer on 03/11/2005 20:48:19 This isn't very new. been going on for months.
Buy your bm's from a char called Madame BM. He/she sells bm's from Renyn on escrow and they are perfecty fine.
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Al Thorr
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Posted - 2005.11.03 20:50:00 -
[3]
Feel for you bud , but you shouldnt post GM responses - youll only get a locked thread.
Regards Al Thorr
I Am in shape, ROUND is a shape |
Roedrene
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Posted - 2005.11.03 20:55:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Roedrene on 03/11/2005 20:55:27 Locked? Why? This is something a GM called a legal scam -- no reason to stop everyone knowing that it's going on and is 100% sanctioned by CCP.
Our conversation is open for all to see -- and more peeps will lose ISK. Until they see that this "legal scamming" is anything but, the only way to make them change their ways is to raise the alert level so enough voices ask them to do their job and stop scammers.
Nuff said.
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Brisi
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Posted - 2005.11.03 21:03:00 -
[5]
*Sigh*
Escrow scamming, in every shape or form, has been allowed since day 1. Please do not think you're the first one to get scammed, people get scammed/cheated/whatever every day in EVE. This is probably the only MMO where it's possible, and it adds a whole lot of complexity to the game.
Simply don't buy bookmarks from some alt on escrow...how hard can it be? Don't tell me that you expected every single bookmark on escrow to be perfect, fine and dandy? If you did, then it was probably not the last time you got scammed.
Ohh, and posting GM conversations is a big no-no. This will get locked very fast.
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Roedrene
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Posted - 2005.11.03 21:08:00 -
[6]
I understand.
However, the game does offer a very broken inspection process. So by rights, programmers should figure out a way to show at least the names of each bookmark -- so when a buyer does the right thing, and checks it out, they'll know what they're buying.
As it is, the system is set to encourage and reward scamming. Period. No reason to not spread the word that this can be done, and is encouraged.
Sorry state of affairs indeed.
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Roedrene
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Posted - 2005.11.03 21:15:00 -
[7]
Please delete this thread, it violates the forum rules. Shame, really.
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FireFoxx80
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Posted - 2005.11.04 10:55:00 -
[8]
Don't delete the thread, it's useful.
Just remove your communication with GM's, dont mention them by name, and remove the quoted email and replace it with a paraphrase.
You're right though, you cannot see the quality of BMs on escrow. The only thing I can suggest is that you warn everyone about who sold you those BMs and so people can avoid that person in the future. Anyway, instas are no replacement for a decent afterburner and some skills I am afraid.
23? # Missile Tool # ex: P-TMC : USAC |
Masu'di
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Posted - 2005.11.04 11:26:00 -
[9]
there are some reputable book mark makers out there if you research them up. can't remember the names off the top of my head though.
POS Drug Refinery |
Emily Spankratchet
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Posted - 2005.11.04 13:38:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Roedrene So by rights, programmers should figure out a way to show at least the names of each bookmark -- so when a buyer does the right thing, and checks it out, they'll know what they're buying.
That wouldn't really solve the problem, you realise. It would just mean that the scammer would have to create a set of bookmarks with plausible sounding names.
Sure, it would be hard work. But what's harder work - making up BM names or actually making the BMs in the first place? It might mean that scammers have to invest a little more effort but it wouldn't stop people scamming.
And, as people have sad above, escrow is not guaranteed to be scam-free. Caveat emptor, and all that.
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Roedrene
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Posted - 2005.11.04 15:41:00 -
[11]
Ok, good idea. Instead of killing the thread, please remove my direct quote of truth from the source Senior GM since it's against the forum rules to spread correct info cited to real employees about real isses.
Wow, these folks should work for Prez. Bush in the US. No need to verify info or cite it to an accurate source there either. And telling the truth gets your CIA employee wife outed and your campaign manager indicted -- but heck, let's cover everything up.
Yes folks, I've lost focus. Nothing to see here. Passive aggressive mode disengaged.
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Kaemonn
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Posted - 2005.11.04 21:29:00 -
[12]
Gave a little scrub to the thread.
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Roedrene
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Posted - 2005.11.04 22:22:00 -
[13]
I appreciate that the forum gods did not outright kill the thread but instead have allowed it to live on so the inside information about this legal scam can be announced openly.
I'm impressed -- thanks.
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Ruffio Sepico
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Posted - 2005.11.05 16:04:00 -
[14]
Being in the days of optimizing and such, wonder how much extra load on the system all the escrow scams make.
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
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Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2005.11.05 16:26:00 -
[15]
Buying bms off escrow is sorta dumb ------------------
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Smokey Joe
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Posted - 2005.11.05 17:02:00 -
[16]
That's odd. I've been refunded a couple times for buying fake bookmarks.
You need to tell the GM to send it to a Senior GM.
Most escrow scams shouldn't be refunded, but there is no way to see that the item is a fake before you buy it. All you see is 'bookmark' when you look at the escrow.
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Galk
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Posted - 2005.11.06 10:56:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Smokey Joe That's odd. I've been refunded a couple times for buying fake bookmarks.
You need to tell the GM to send it to a Senior GM.
Most escrow scams shouldn't be refunded, but there is no way to see that the item is a fake before you buy it. All you see is 'bookmark' when you look at the escrow.
This does not suprise me in the slightest.
I don't even bother to get upset over these things after my own experiences now, i have no faith what so ever in the system. ----------- When they asked me if i knew you, id smile and say you were a friend of mine.
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Roedrene
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Posted - 2005.11.06 17:56:00 -
[18]
It's a Senior GM who told me about this "legal scam" and that it's sanctioned as part of the game. No refunds.
I'm a new player to Eve, less than 30 days.
I've learned my lesson, and in the mean time have gotten leads on non-scam sellers should I need more in the future.
Call me dumb. Call me a noob. Whatever -- we all were new to this game at one time. And now I know that CCP likes this scam.
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Wyke Mossari
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Posted - 2005.11.06 18:52:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 06/11/2005 18:54:41 Pretty much every bookmark on ESCROW is a scam and the only people who fall for it are newbies.
The GM's are encouraging it because they want to eradicate BM'ing. Most of the serious Corps will supply you with free bookmarks for empire space as part of your membership. If not find a better corp or pool them with friends. Some corps are even giving them away to potential customers to promote trade to their HQ stations and POS in low sec space.
In short you shouldn't pay anything for BM's they have no ISK value.
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without
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Posted - 2005.11.07 02:04:00 -
[20]
lots of the bookmarks are real, more and mroe of them thesedays are fake though
oh and just cos u where conned doesnt mean everone and his dog wants to hear about it
go cry in the corner
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Decairn
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Posted - 2005.11.07 02:25:00 -
[21]
Just wait till you go to use one in a low security system and find yourself warping to a hostile POS. --Decairn |
Tiuwaz
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Posted - 2005.11.07 03:07:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Decairn Just wait till you go to use one in a low security system and find yourself warping to a hostile POS.
lol that gotta be priceless
to the original poster or other newbies, ask older players which ppl sell "good" BM's or just make friends and get BM's from those
also any good corp should have BM's of the region/s they operate in hangar for their members, but thats just my opinion
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Tortuga Reborn
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Posted - 2005.11.17 00:32:00 -
[23]
Ok then so dose anyone have decent BM's? could you post a lost of the honourable one from escrow?
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Kerushi
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Posted - 2005.11.17 00:45:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Zeromancer Edited by: Zeromancer on 03/11/2005 20:48:19 This isn't very new. been going on for months.
Buy your bm's from a char called Madame BM. He/she sells bm's from Renyn on escrow and they are perfecty fine.
for what ever it`s worth, i`ll vouch aswell, using all the regions and works perfectly ________________
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.11.17 02:05:00 -
[25]
Anyone in The Cartographer's Union, Madame BM, Xunarkane, etc is trustworthy. - Proud member of the [23].
Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
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Nihn Lemai
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Posted - 2005.11.18 12:35:00 -
[26]
Arent they going to remove those pesky instas soon? Oh happy day!
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Cynthia
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Posted - 2005.11.18 23:16:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 06/11/2005 18:54:41 Pretty much every bookmark on ESCROW is a scam and the only people who fall for it are newbies.
The GM's are encouraging it because they want to eradicate BM'ing. Most of the serious Corps will supply you with free bookmarks for empire space as part of your membership. If not find a better corp or pool them with friends. Some corps are even giving them away to potential customers to promote trade to their HQ stations and POS in low sec space.
In short you shouldn't pay anything for BM's they have no ISK value.
This is not right to say, some of us have worked VERY hard on making bookmarks of EVE. Yes, the scammers and the resellers makes us in a "untrusting" market, but I feel that people need to know that there are legit mappers out there that sell good bookmarks.
Way to tell if they are a scammer:
1) The character that is listing the BM is new, meaning they just created the character for the sole purpose of selling the fake bookmarks on escrow. This way, if they are caught, they just delete the character and make a new one.
2) The character selling the bookmark are new AND has a name that is built around bookmarking. There are only 2 original bookmarkers that have bookmark in their name, BookmarkKing and Bookmark Babe that I know of. Both have been very close associates of mine for at least the last 6 months, and now are part of our bookmark corp.
3) The price in which they are selling the bookmarks. If you see "Genesis Region" listed for 7m, and the you see one listed for 4m, the 4m is prolly the scam. They are almost 100% of the time the lowest price on the market. This actually helps us, because people buy the lowest priced bookmarks, get scammed, then come to us for the right one. Its just sad that they have to do through that, and spend that much isk on it.
4) Tag lines that ALMOST match the real ones. If someone lists a bookmark saying " -Genesis Region, complete-" They would list it ALMOST identicale, so it would be confused as one of the original posts, and people may be confused and buy it. Again, these are sometimes a few isk cheaper, getting the customer to buying it over the real one.
5) Character names that ALMOST match the real ones. For example, say a legit seller was called "bookmaster", someone would create a character called "bookmasterr". First look, they are the same, but one has false maps. This HAS happened before.
Bottom line, I just need to let people know there is valid bookmarks out there. And yes, it is true that if you buy a scam you cannot get your money back. It has been explained to me that they ARE selling a bookmark, so it is valid, just to bad it 300 of the same one. Write to them, ask them to give you a couple to check out, ask them for a screenshot, ask them to give you 2 or 3 people you have sold to before. These are all valid questions you can ask to not get scammed. Prices for bookmarked regions are not cheap, dont loose your life savings on getting scammed.
Oh, and just to rant about prices. Picture a corporation spending hundreds of hours mapping out a region (like domain), which has well over 1400 maps in the region. Then, picture that corp releasing the sets to the public, for a fair price, so each of the corp members can be compensated for the time they have spent on mapping. Then picture someone buying that region, making a copy of it, and putting it back on the public market for a few million less.
We call em resellers..
Be carefull of the second row of scammers in reselling. Hence, not all resellers are scammer, and some are and they dont know it. There is a talent to copy large sets, and some of the time they get it off, resulting in a copy that does not have all of them in it. So on the domain region, you may get 1300 of the 1400+, more then likely the one your missing will be the one you will die on :)
My 2 isk worth
CYN Cynthia
-= Original Created Bookmarks =-
Solitude - RELEASED (contact me for a set) Molden Heath - ON SALE (get on the list) Devoid - ON SALE (get on the list) Derelik - ON SALE (get on the l |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.11.19 02:13:00 -
[28]
Generally most buyers don't buy from resellers as they are bound to lose a few BMs in the copy process, and they cannot be guaranteed to be good. - Proud member of the [23].
Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
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Elfaen Ethenwe
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Posted - 2005.11.21 10:58:00 -
[29]
Roedrene.
I will sell you BM regions via the forums so no possible scam.
eve mail me in game and I will give you a list and cost per region.
Once we agree I will post a for sale to Roedrene thread in teh sales forum and we can take it from there.
In my experience most of teh BM sellers are con artists.
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Solant
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Posted - 2005.11.24 03:01:00 -
[30]
Fact is, if the GM's were to ever take action agaisnt Escrow scams, people could exploit it to no end? Who is to say what a fair price on ANY item in the game is? The GM's can't read minds, so if you want to be completely safe, always inspect escrows- or use the market. THe escrow system was never meant to be used in the fashion it is used today, GMs have stated this many times =P
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