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CCP Prime
C C P C C P Alliance
41
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Posted - 2013.06.05 19:32:00 -
[31] - Quote
Bridgette d'Iberville wrote:Quick related question (that I think I know the answer to but wanted to check): Are the spew cans (the cans released after you've hacked/analyzed) owned by the hacking ship? Or can anyone grab them once they're in space?
I've heard about bringing a partner, but was wondering if the more piratical minded could take advantage.
Edit: Anyone know if you can snag a can while cloaked? LOL
If you set your safety level to partial or less then you can take anyone's can, provided you are not cloaked. Programmer Team Prototyping Rocks |
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Bridgette d'Iberville
Better Killing Through Chemistry
191
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Posted - 2013.06.05 19:50:00 -
[32] - Quote
Prime: Are these considered cans? They don't show up in the overview anywhere as far as I have been able to tell, so I wasn't sure. Lighting a cyno to my ladyparts |
Atomic Option
Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness
58
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Posted - 2013.06.05 20:04:00 -
[33] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:I agree. Already playing a game, don't need a mini game within this game. If I wanted to play 'The Matrix Online' I'd be there already. DMC
The Matrix Online was shut down a few years ago. Couldn't play it anymore if you wanted to. :( |
Murlio
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.06.05 21:35:00 -
[34] - Quote
While i think the changes in hacking system are great step in the right direction, making the whole process interactive and interesting, the current implementation has some rather big flaws.
First of all the spewing of cans on successful hack. You are actually getting penalized for succeeding in activity if you try it alone (no matter that you invested considerable amount of SPs) .
I can't say i had much experience with the new system but i did few sites in 0.0 and i can safely say if you didn't do some research or haven't played much that type of games in order to know some tactics that will improve your chances, you have pretty good chances to fail at some hacking attempts.
I've managed to fail on 2 containers twice each, from around 12-13 total. Both containers exploded on the second fail. I have max skills and use t3 with the right subsystem, and i'm not a drooling idiot - meaning i won't attack an 60/40 antivirus node on 40 coherence. Still when i come upon a mini game that has almost all the possible nodes active, there is some chance you will get cornered at the beginning or mid game with no options to continue.
You start one route and come upon 60/40 antivirus, go another way to preserve coherence there you encounter another, go the third way just to come upon third. You open one data cashe hoping for utility and end up with suppressor. So i can say there is some chance (i can't say how big from my limited experience so far) that you will end up with the container blowing up in your face.
Sorry for the tirade but it was to illustrate the point that after you actually beat the skill based game (which takes in account your skills - via coherence and strength and your strategy at the game itself) instead of profiting for it, you get hit by the RNG bat and can actually lose the nice loot you have just won. Even with scanning the container and scooping only the right cans you still can miss the big prize. Which levees you wondering why do you even bother.
The second reason is the need for second person (lets not kid our self - in most cases second account). Encouraging team play is great but in the current implementation the second person does not contribute at all with the whole mini game . He only sits there and waits for the container to spew the goods. In the unlikely event that this second pilot is an actual player he will get bored to hell very fast and soon go for something more interesting like afk mining. And this defeats the whole purpose of encouraging team play.
And since i don't like just to drop critique without any constructive suggestions i'll share my ides for future improvement on the hacking game and mechanic as a whole.
To encourage team play you can actually implement some kind of remote module. It can have 1 per ship limit and can be activated on a ship or on container that is current being hacked. It can give some bonuses to the person who is actually doing the hacking. Or you can go even further and take into account the skills of the second player. Maybe giving him another instance of the minigame. If the person hacking the can fails his attempt his module will continue to cycle and the second pilot will have a chance of finishing the game. If he secedes the container will give the same loot as if the first have finished. But if both succeed the second pilot will receive some small amount of bonus loot. The spewing mechanic will become obsolete. If you like to do hacking alone you go do it and if you hack container you get the loot you deserve. If you bring someone else with you, and he actually contributes to the hacking, then you get bonus loot. You can have the container spew one can for each player that finishes the hack.
This way you increase the potential loot a container can give by team of players, making a site with lets say an average reward of 25 mil when done by a single player to have average value of 40mil when done by two, 50 by three players and so on. This makes for far better scallability and will actually encourage teamplay.
Not to mention that this can contribute for some great EVE moments.
As an up and coming hacker you have just found the next from a series of great data sites and start to hack the containers in your shiny new buzzard. You are half through the minigame, so concentrated in your effort, that you notice the loki that has decloaked next to you only after you hear the sound of targeting and it's too late. As the loki finishes targeting you think "Whell it was a good run". Then you notice that the loki has activated a module on you. but it's not the warp scramble you have expected but instead it is Remote Hacking Amplifier and he is actually helping you hack the container. Thinking "What a great guy, now we can both hack finish the hack and get bonus loot, we can share and become BFFs forever" you finish your hack wait for him to finish his instance so you can share the spoils. And since this is EVE as soon as he finishes his hack and the container ejects the bonus loot, you get pointed and destroyed promptly.
This is my view of how the system can be improved, and since there are a lot smarter ppl than me working for CCP i hope they will come up with even better system, which will promote actual teamplay, taking into account all the players participating and engaging them in the game, not one where one player is scaning and hacking and only actinge as a loot mu |
DotheBarrel Roll
4
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Posted - 2013.06.05 22:22:00 -
[35] - Quote
CCP Prime wrote:Bridgette d'Iberville wrote:Quick related question (that I think I know the answer to but wanted to check): Are the spew cans (the cans released after you've hacked/analyzed) owned by the hacking ship? Or can anyone grab them once they're in space?
I've heard about bringing a partner, but was wondering if the more piratical minded could take advantage.
Edit: Anyone know if you can snag a can while cloaked? LOL If you set your safety level to partial or less then you can take anyone's can, provided you are not cloaked. I agree with the not being able to loot while cloaked thing but it seems to me that even if you are not in fleet with another party and have safety set to green it is possible to get 1 or 2 containers right before the pinata contis expire. I had that happen with two other buzzards on grid and we even managed to somehow pull the same conti with at least two people at the same time(no idea who got the loot, btw is there a log?). Might even be that the tractor beam of pilot 1 (who hacked the conti, and was not in my fleet) made it possible for me to grab it at the same time.
Also: if you lock pinata contis while tractoring one, the one you tractor will haunt you and deny any other contis from being tractored.
You might want to check that again.
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LittleTerror
Illuminated Foundation Trust
72
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Posted - 2013.06.05 23:21:00 -
[36] - Quote
Garresh wrote:New system is awesome for everyone. play a minigame instead of afking to watch futurama while my analyzers cycle. Distacts bears for raoming gankers to potentially catch em with their pants down. And if you know what you're doing the isk/hour went up, not down. Anyone who is having issues with the new system either hasn't learned it yet, wants afk income, or is stupid.
but its ******* shite...
the hacking game is ok, sort of but it does not require any sort of skill... The loot flying around in space is ****, ruins it for me because its annoying and stressful. |
DotheBarrel Roll
4
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Posted - 2013.06.05 23:27:00 -
[37] - Quote
LittleTerror wrote:Garresh wrote:New system is awesome for everyone. play a minigame instead of afking to watch futurama while my analyzers cycle. Distacts bears for raoming gankers to potentially catch em with their pants down. And if you know what you're doing the isk/hour went up, not down. Anyone who is having issues with the new system either hasn't learned it yet, wants afk income, or is stupid. but its ******* shite... the hacking game is ok, sort of but it does not require any sort of skill... The loot flying around in space is ****, ruins it for me because its annoying and stressful. "What do we say to the loot fairy?" "Not today." |
Eloy Alduron
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
0
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Posted - 2013.06.06 07:29:00 -
[38] - Quote
Sc4venge wrote:seriously wtf -- dock -- refit menu-- remove hacker & analyzer -- undock -- thanks ccp, there's another two useless modules i don't hav 2 worry 'bout, and just when i had lvl5 in both.
Couldn't agree with you more What this does is lower your isk per hour ratio.. CCP killing your income yet again so they can sell more plex's If you're in W-space ... you now have to kill sleepers salvage them stay alive fiddle with this damn mini game OH and look I'm getting jumped by a group of people b/c I dropped the ball on D-scanning thanks to this minigame taking up too much time and attention.
like seriously was in a C3 relic site tonight ... I deserved to get jumped soooo bad with all the time I was taking .. I just said screw it and left with nothing but the sleeper loot... not going to lose 3 tech 3 cruisers (multiboxin) b/c this minigame is taking up too much of my attention.
and you wonder why these guys get DDOS'd |
Saheed Cha'chris'ra
Krautz WH Exploration and Production
73
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Posted - 2013.06.06 07:43:00 -
[39] - Quote
Eloy Alduron wrote: What this does is lower your isk per hour ratio.. CCP killing your income yet again so they can sell more plex's If you're in W-space ... you now have to kill sleepers salvage them stay alive fiddle with this damn mini game OH and look I'm getting jumped by a group of people b/c I dropped the ball on D-scanning thanks to this minigame taking up too much time and attention.
like seriously was in a C3 relic site tonight ... I deserved to get jumped soooo bad with all the time I was taking .. I just said screw it and left with nothing but the sleeper loot... not going to lose 3 tech 3 cruisers (multiboxin) b/c this minigame is taking up too much of my attention.
and you wonder why these guys get DDOS'd
The sites had sleepers before. In an early build on Sisi they removed the sleepers from the data and relic sites, but the community demanded them back, because the sleeper are the main income for a lot of wormhole-dwellers.
Also: You are multiboxing 3 t3s? Wormholes are dangerous, and you should get a group to farm them. Without scouts & playing three accounts at the same time is greedy. Yes, you deserve getting jumped on. Get some friends. So they can spam D-Scan while you hack.
If you can't handle multiboxing your expensive ships, don't do it. Or Bob will kill you. |
Eloy Alduron
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
0
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Posted - 2013.06.06 12:00:00 -
[40] - Quote
"Wormholes are dangerous"
NAWW REALLY ? =) GÖÑ
Yet after almost a year in a C6 I maintain a kill efficiency in the upper 90's and am approaching 1000 kills on the corp KB cumulatively with all my toons. A handful of those killmails have all 3 of my chars on em ^^ so we won't count those twice/thrice
Most of the time I welcome getting jumped, but not when I don't have a web n scram fitted. Which won't be a problem anymore since I'm dropping the analyzer
P.S. according to CCP greed is good. |
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Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
184
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Posted - 2013.06.06 13:24:00 -
[41] - Quote
CCP Prime wrote:Bridgette d'Iberville wrote:Quick related question (that I think I know the answer to but wanted to check): Are the spew cans (the cans released after you've hacked/analyzed) owned by the hacking ship? Or can anyone grab them once they're in space?
I've heard about bringing a partner, but was wondering if the more piratical minded could take advantage.
Edit: Anyone know if you can snag a can while cloaked? LOL If you set your safety level to partial or less then you can take anyone's can, provided you are not cloaked.
Wait a minute, I guess I really didn't think about this one when it was on Sisi, but are you saying that the person I bring along to do this loot spew with me like it's designed to encourageGǪ is going to turn suspect to me (and everyone else for hat matter) as soon as he grabs stuff from the cans? |
Saheed Cha'chris'ra
Krautz WH Exploration and Production
74
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Posted - 2013.06.06 13:30:00 -
[42] - Quote
@Eloy Alduron
You Noho guys should be enough people in your holes ;) When we are flying the new sites in Anoikis, we hack the container after killing the sleepers with someones cov ops alt + hacking skills, and since some of us are staying in the site to guard our noctis they can also help catching all the scattering cans afterwards.
Can't see any problem there. Yes, if you do it alone, the new mechanic needs more of your attention then before. You can watch D-Scan while hack, because you don't have to hurry while hacking, the only time my attention drops during flying one of the new sites in lowsec is when i try to catch as many containers as possible.
And yes, greed is good. Get your t3's safe after killing the sleepers, all you can loose after that is your relatively cheap hacking ship. Nothing to complain about.
Praise Bob!
(Off topic: Good KB stats Eloy, last time we almost worked together was some days ago. Your Alliance tried to get Hole Control in a C5 which was under siege to get the reinforcements in, but arr... bloody russians. Next time! :-D)
Manssell wrote: Wait a minute, I guess I really didn't think about this one when it was on Sisi, but are you saying that the person I bring along to do this loot spew with me like it's designed to encourageGǪ is going to turn suspect to me (and everyone else for hat matter) as soon as he grabs stuff from the cans?
Shouldn't happen if you are in the same fleet, isn't it? |
Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
184
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Posted - 2013.06.06 13:53:00 -
[43] - Quote
Saheed Cha'chris'ra wrote:Manssell wrote: Wait a minute, I guess I really didn't think about this one when it was on Sisi, but are you saying that the person I bring along to do this loot spew with me like it's designed to encourageGǪ is going to turn suspect to me (and everyone else for hat matter) as soon as he grabs stuff from the cans?
Shouldn't happen if you are in the same fleet, isn't it?
Yea, the fleet should be fine. I was thinking of just inviting someone via private convo and not fleeting them up |
Saheed Cha'chris'ra
Krautz WH Exploration and Production
74
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Posted - 2013.06.06 13:56:00 -
[44] - Quote
Or even more evil: Flying into highsec, hack a container and wait til someone is coming to you. Then open it, let the stuff flow, maybe your opponent isn't aware of the suspect-thing and he clicks one of the cans... and you can shoot him.
What happens if you try to hack a container which is already being hacked by someone else at the same time(in fleet or not?)?
Is it just not working or am i becoming suspect too if I try to hack the container? |
Nam Dnilb
Universal Frog
22
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Posted - 2013.06.06 14:29:00 -
[45] - Quote
Alright 0.0 sites can kick ones rear quite hard!
I have a bonused ship and rigged and implanted it, but no T2 equipment. Still, some sites are too hard for me. Four restoration nodes and a suppressor after nine turns is a bit disheartening. Poof go capacitor consoles and I am sure I heard Soundwave's mad laughter in the system. I am also very scared of opening data caches now, after having found restore nodes in three out of four.
0.0 really is designed with those T2 analyzers in mind I guess.
Looking at the loot I am not exactly impressed, the mini game is quite a time sink and I surely would have made more running the combat plexes and anoms in system. It does give very new players respectable income for very few skill points invested, even if they lose a can every once in a while. So, success, if that was the plan.
In conclusion I don't see me doing these sites in the future, but my cargo hold is still half-empty. I'll give my final judgment once my cargo hold is full. |
Philalexandros
Eternal Darkness. Fatal Ascension
1
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Posted - 2013.06.06 15:23:00 -
[46] - Quote
The mini-game I can live with...barely.
The scattering mechanic MUST GO. Immediately. This spew-job thing makes me seriously consider anomalies for the first time in a very long time.
What you've done is made exploration much more difficult and time consuming but have not increased the rewards at all.
Carbon? Hydrogen batteries? You're f---ing kidding me. |
Cypher Decypher
Caldari Deep Space Ventures Tribal Band
17
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Posted - 2013.06.06 19:18:00 -
[47] - Quote
I can't see what the fuss is all about. The minigame takes 30-60 secs. Alright I have T2 kit, but only two crates have blown up on me.
I distinctly remember sometimes having to wait five fricking minutes for that oh-so-slow Data Analyzer to finally crack one of the old crates. And so many more of them were actually empty too.
I like the minigame, and I like the fact that it IS a minigame and therefore subject to some fairly easy tweaks in future patches should CCP want to balance it or add more features. |
WOlfaneA3
LightningStrikesTwice Elemental Tide
0
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Posted - 2013.06.06 19:24:00 -
[48] - Quote
Whenever I see someone raging it makes me happy. That person will likely quit exploration leaving more sites for us non-ragers.
I personally find null relic sites to be quite rewarding, even solo. With a bit of patience you can understand the tactics required to win the mini game, literally the only can I haven't been able to hack is the "ruins" can in relic sites. I use a covert ops with T1 modules. I have yet to get a cargo scanner and my hacking and archaeology skills are at 4.
Also, I understand that more explorers means more sites, but there is likely a minimum number of sites. |
Craig Bennett2th
Bennett Corp Epsilon Shimmy Alliance
14
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Posted - 2013.06.06 19:36:00 -
[49] - Quote
Sc4venge wrote:seriously wtf -- dock -- refit menu-- remove hacker & analyzer -- undock -- thanks ccp, there's another two useless modules i don't hav 2 worry 'bout, and just when i had lvl5 in both.
The only thing I think they need to change is how the cans come out. I think if you screw up then the cans go out everywhere like they are. I think if you can get it right then you get everything in 1 wack. |
Garresh
Team Chicken and Waffles
240
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Posted - 2013.06.06 22:31:00 -
[50] - Quote
^Not really a good idea
As is, if you use a cargo scanner, you get 100% of the loot of every can you successfully hack. Making it so failure does the spew means you still get 100%. I've only been at this for 2 days, and I've already reached the point where I can scan, hack, grab 4 cans, and then ignore the rest because I know I've already gotten everything, and there's no need to chase them.
Once you realize the pattern, it's actually a very relaxed activity, and the loot chasing really isn't that bad. It's only if you try to get all the cans, without prioritizing high value ones, that you get annoyed. This Space Intentionally Left Blank |
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Kijimea
Mulors
3
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Posted - 2013.06.07 00:21:00 -
[51] - Quote
Exactly - ppl crying about the cans are just too bad. I mean why should i get the scraps? If you know which items you find in the right cans and you use a cargo scanner it is super easy, no need for a friend or whatever. I myself always in 100 % of every successfull hacks get exactly what i want to. So the system working good and ppl who complain about cans and no loot and bla are either just lazy or odyssey shows that some uber explorer on here are pretty low. |
Garand Huren
Miskatonic Mercantile
0
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Posted - 2013.06.07 01:46:00 -
[52] - Quote
CCP Prime wrote:Bridgette d'Iberville wrote:Quick related question (that I think I know the answer to but wanted to check): Are the spew cans (the cans released after you've hacked/analyzed) owned by the hacking ship? Or can anyone grab them once they're in space?
I've heard about bringing a partner, but was wondering if the more piratical minded could take advantage.
Edit: Anyone know if you can snag a can while cloaked? LOL If you set your safety level to partial or less then you can take anyone's can, provided you are not cloaked.
I'm basically a no count on issues in this game, but, follow up question to this... are they supposed to not go suspect? |
BlakPhoenix
Veni Vidi Vici Reloaded Darkspawn.
31
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Posted - 2013.06.07 09:25:00 -
[53] - Quote
Double restoring nodes = death no matter what. Please don't let this happen CCP!!! |
Radgette
New Eden Renegades
32
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Posted - 2013.06.07 10:04:00 -
[54] - Quote
ye i've had one with 3+ restoring nodes you may as well just close the window it's impossible to get further.
And don't tell me i can avoid those with "skill" it's pretty much pot luck when you click a node to see what it is.
Loads of Firewalls is no problem with t2 analyzer, rigs and cov ops but anymore than 2 resto and your done.
I will say yes once you use a cargo scanner the spew mechanic is really easy to get exactly what you want. |
Tsubutai
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
209
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Posted - 2013.06.07 10:42:00 -
[55] - Quote
Restoration nodes by themselves are no problem as long as you have T2 analyzers and a bonused ship - even in the toughest sites, they only have 80 coherence/10 strength. If you just kill them as soon as you uncover them, you'll only take 10 points of damage and they'll add 20 to the coherence of some other random node. Not a big deal. They only cause problems if you encounter them while a virus suppressor node is active. |
Kallie Rae
NorCorp Security Here Be Dragons
34
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Posted - 2013.06.07 10:57:00 -
[56] - Quote
Never touched hacking/exploration before, but i've been totally enjoying myself after these changes, trying it out for the first time. So thumbs up from me.
Edit: Could of course need a few tweaks, i hate those restoration nodes, at least when they start stacking up. |
DotheBarrel Roll
5
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Posted - 2013.06.07 11:07:00 -
[57] - Quote
BlakPhoenix wrote:Double restoring nodes = death no matter what. Please don't let this happen CCP!!! not really true in all cases, i had grids that seemed impossible but i just kept exploring nodes eventually found the core and since it is not affected by restoration nodes its doable if there are no surpressors or enough utilities... but yeah sometimes there are no utilities, then its really bad
Quote:What happens if you try to hack a container which is already being hacked by someone else at the same time(in fleet or not?)? it's not possible to interact with the container once somebody activated a module on it.. if you want to forfeit your try and let another person do it you have to either cloak up or warp off grid.. not sure if failed attempts count for other players, so this might be a loophole... have two persons take turns and you might only explode the conti after three trys |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
7972
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Posted - 2013.06.07 20:02:00 -
[58] - Quote
OMGAWD, the amount of CCP brown nose happening in this thread is worse than my little dog Toto who constantly dry humps anything that's within reach.
The whole damn system sux and is a complete waste of time. I hope you all continue doing these hacking sites which will leave more DED / unrated combat sites for me to complete.
DMC |
Traska Gannel
ROC Academy The ROC
11
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Posted - 2013.06.08 01:30:00 -
[59] - Quote
Haulin Gneiss wrote:Staavross wrote:Alien Youth wrote:i found it to be kinda fun.... =p ~First 5 times maybe, once you realise it drops nothing and takes a bazillion clicks it loses its charm =/ Have you guys seen any thing in the minigame that is skill based? I mean it appears that my hacking 5 skill might improve the strength of my virus but other than that it seems to be just a bunch of random clicks until you find the core.
I would guess that your hacking skill affects either your total attack strength at the start or the amount of drop you receive attacking a node ... but since I have only tried with one character I can't pinpoint what the actual differences are. |
Castor II
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
105
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Posted - 2013.06.08 07:52:00 -
[60] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:OMGAWD, the amount of CCP brown nose happening in this thread is worse than my little dog Toto who constantly dry humps anything that's within reach.
The whole damn system sux and is a complete waste of time. I hope you all continue doing these hacking sites which will leave more DED / unrated combat sites for me to complete.
DMC
So we can't like something you don't? |
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