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Shadow Lord77
Shadow Industries I
301
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 00:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
Jita had a higher capsuleer cap earlier this year at 2300, currently at 2000 it has had a downgrade. As the busiest trade hub in an expanding eve universe with more players than ever before it needs a bigger cap. After the patch containing the duelling feature was introduced the Jita population cap was forced to be reduced rather than suffer 'TiDi' issues. Spammers will request duels with any ship that comes out of Jita 4-4; yes actual duels happen but with many next-door relatively unoccupied solar systems they can do it just as well in those areas.
Summed up: I don't think keeping duelling enabled on the Jita node at the cost of ~50-200 or higher potential extra traders is worth it. As level 4 missions, anomalies, and belts were removed to ease the load on Jita so too duelling should be turned off in Jita as well.
Also remove local spammers. :D
One of these days I'm sure we'll see a 3000 man cap in Jita but as for now any boost in population would be most welcomed. Thanks for reading, and I hope you enjoy the newest changes to Odyssey! Cheers! |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
2556
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 01:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
Shadow Lord77 wrote:Jita had a higher capsuleer cap earlier this year at 2300, currently at 2000 it has had a downgrade. As the busiest trade hub in an expanding eve universe with more players than ever before it needs a bigger cap. After the patch containing the duelling feature was introduced the Jita population cap was forced to be reduced rather than suffer 'TiDi' issues. Spammers will request duels with any ship that comes out of Jita 4-4; yes actual duels happen but with many next-door relatively unoccupied solar systems they can do it just as well in those areas. Summed up: I don't think keeping duelling enabled on the Jita node at the cost of ~50-200 or higher potential extra traders is worth it. As level 4 missions, anomalies, and belts were removed to ease the load on Jita so too duelling should be turned off in Jita as well. Also remove local spammers. :D One of these days I'm sure we'll see a 3000 man cap in Jita but as for now any boost in population would be most welcomed. Thanks for reading, and I hope you enjoy the newest changes to Odyssey! Cheers! You are aware that people are not there to really duel... right? They're just betting on stupid. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
DeLindsay
Galaxies Fall
240
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Posted - 2013.06.06 02:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
Quote:Also remove local spammers. :D Easy way to both do that and help with overcrowding is have a timer on how long a layer can be in the system. The spammer type alts probably never leave Jita so that'd take a huge chunk out of what is certainly a problem. I'd have CCP make it 48 hours or something like that then a specific toon has to physically leave Jita (or is either kicked to a neighboring system or not allowed to log in) and possibly even not be able to re-enter for 4 hours or something. That'd annoy spammers just enough to somewhat lower their population there. The Operative:-á"There are a lot of innocent people being killed in the air right now".
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds:-á"You have no idea how true that is". |
Shadow Lord77
Shadow Industries I
301
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 04:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:You are aware that people are not there to really duel... right? They're just betting on stupid.
Yes. I am aware of that. Thanks. |
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
117
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Posted - 2013.06.06 07:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
DeLindsay wrote:Quote:Also remove local spammers. :D Easy way to both do that and help with overcrowding is have a timer on how long a layer can be in the system. The spammer type alts probably never leave Jita so that'd take a huge chunk out of what is certainly a problem. I'd have CCP make it 48 hours or something like that then a specific toon has to physically leave Jita (or is either kicked to a neighboring system or not allowed to log in) and possibly even not be able to re-enter for 4 hours or something. That'd annoy spammers just enough to somewhat lower their population there.
48 hour Parking: You're going to struggle with the 48-hr rule as DT happens every 23.5 hours.
As for kicking from system: What differentiates a "Spammer" from a Pilot who's actively trading? You'd have to do a lot of kicking. They pay the same as everyone else and if someone tried to kick me from my home system because I'd been in there >48 hours I'd be mad as hell.
The solution to this is simple: Trade somewhere else and decentralise the Jita Trading Hub by taking your custom\goods elsewhere. There are plenty of thriving hubs out there: Diodoxie, Hek, Rens, Teonusuede to name but a few. My Feature\Idea:-á Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee"
Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |
ExAstra
Echoes of Silence
151
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 07:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Maximus Aerelius wrote:The solution to this is simple: Trade somewhere else and decentralise the Jita Trading Hub by taking your custom\goods elsewhere. There are plenty of thriving hubs out there: Diodoxie, Hek, Rens, Teonusuede to name but a few. 'Dixie is my personal favorite hub, partially because my home system is only 2 jumps out from it. Regardless, prices there are indeed delicious.
As for Jita:
CCP Fozzie wrote:The rewrite that's needed to do new stuff with gang links will also affect a number of other things, including breaking one of the biggest remaining performance bottlenecks on Jita and big fleet fights. Unsurprisingly that helps raise its priority. Save the drones! |
TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
229
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Posted - 2013.06.06 08:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ban the spam/scam/chat bots and you wont need to raise the Jita cap... ... |
DeLindsay
Galaxies Fall
246
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Posted - 2013.06.06 08:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
Quote:48 hour Parking: You're going to struggle with the 48-hr rule as DT happens every 23.5 hours.
As for kicking from system: What differentiates a "Spammer" from a Pilot who's actively trading? You'd have to do a lot of kicking. They pay the same as everyone else and if someone tried to kick me from my home system because I'd been in there >48 hours I'd be mad as hell. Who in the hell that trades in Jita EVER sticks around for more than a few hours let alone 2 days? You fly there, sell/buy **** and get out as fast as humanly possible so you can get back to your life in whatever system you call home. I'd be willing to wager there are few if ANY players that actively use Jita as their home that aren't chat spammers, scammers, suiciders, Alts for the sole purpose of price checks,etc. The price check alts can easily be located in the system next to Jita or any other in the same Region of space and serve the exact same purpose.
Jita is the most regularly populous system in all of New Eden. It is also reasonable that there would be regular issues with players who call Jita "home" in that often they can't even log in to that character, lag issues when the pop is at/near max, etc. To impose a 2 day (or however long) max for continuous stay in that one system is only another method to help with lag, just like capping the population. At current if you log into a toon that is parked in Jita and it's full one option it gives you is being dumped to a local system surrounding Jita. A max duration timer could do the exact same thing, either you can't log into that toon after 2 days if it's still in Jita or you let the system push you to a neighbor system. The Operative:-á"There are a lot of innocent people being killed in the air right now".
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds:-á"You have no idea how true that is". |
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
117
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 09:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
DeLindsay wrote:Quote:48 hour Parking: You're going to struggle with the 48-hr rule as DT happens every 23.5 hours.
As for kicking from system: What differentiates a "Spammer" from a Pilot who's actively trading? You'd have to do a lot of kicking. They pay the same as everyone else and if someone tried to kick me from my home system because I'd been in there >48 hours I'd be mad as hell. Who in the hell that trades in Jita EVER sticks around for more than a few hours let alone 2 days? You fly there, sell/buy **** and get out as fast as humanly possible so you can get back to your life in whatever system you call home. I'd be willing to wager there are few if ANY players that actively use Jita as their home that aren't chat spammers, scammers, suiciders, Alts for the sole purpose of price checks,etc. The price check alts can easily be located in the system next to Jita or any other in the same Region of space and serve the exact same purpose. Jita is the most regularly populous system in all of New Eden. It is also reasonable that there would be regular issues with players who call Jita "home" in that often they can't even log in to that character, lag issues when the pop is at/near max, etc. To impose a 2 day (or however long) max for continuous stay in that one system is only another method to help with lag, just like capping the population. At current if you log into a toon that is parked in Jita and it's full one option it gives you is being dumped to a local system surrounding Jita. A max duration timer could do the exact same thing, either you can't log into that toon after 2 days if it's still in Jita or you let the system push you to a neighbor system.
Now don't get all mad, merely providing a balance to this idea. Question: By "push" do you mean me, my ships and all my stuff or just me in whatever I may be in be it a Pod or a Hull?
I understand the constraints on Jita but those "Price Checkers" that really annoy you: Alts on a paid account = same rights as someone in a system all on their own. Now Spammers really do get on my breasts (If I had them) but I think if you focused on combating spammers you'd see the population go down. It's not the pilots in system that's the problem its the activities they are doing in Jita that is. Stop the spammers = lowers the population but this would have to be hooked into chat related like a:
where [Char] has posted in Local [X Times] and content is unchanged in [X minutes] move to adjacent system. X times could be 5 times in 5 minutes for instance.
If you're having a conversation you will almost never going post the exact same thing 5 times in as many minutes. However this might just get rid of the spam bots and spammers in general. Just furthering the idea. My Feature\Idea:-á Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee"
Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |
Theodore Giumbix
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
17
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Posted - 2013.06.06 09:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
I don't know why I read Raze Jita and I was about to +1 for the massacre The Tek - a show that covers hardware, pc games, indie games, legal policies that pertain to technology, the internet, and nerd culture. Please sign: Disabling the clouds in anomalies/signatures/missions |
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Lai HasCake
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
3
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Posted - 2013.06.06 10:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
I think Null Sec should do a month long occupy jita campaign. I'm sure we could pull 2000 dudes to keep all the traders out. |
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
117
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Posted - 2013.06.06 10:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lai HasCake wrote:I think Null Sec should do a month long occupy jita campaign. I'm sure we could pull 2000 dudes to keep all the traders out.
Ha ha watch 'em run for the gates then! My Feature\Idea:-á Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee"
Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9924
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 10:06:00 -
[13] - Quote
Lai HasCake wrote:I think Null Sec should do a month long occupy jita campaign. I'm sure we could pull 2000 dudes to keep all the traders out.
It would only need those numbers for the first few days, a week at most. After that 200-250 would be ample
1 Kings 12:11
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Lai HasCake
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
3
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Posted - 2013.06.06 10:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Lai HasCake wrote:I think Null Sec should do a month long occupy jita campaign. I'm sure we could pull 2000 dudes to keep all the traders out. It would only need those numbers for the first few days, a week at most. After that 200-250 would be ample
Best way to do it is have everyone login just after downtime to keep the most traders out then they are forced to relocate when they login. |
Shadow Lord77
Shadow Industries I
302
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 16:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
ExAstra wrote:As for Jita: CCP Fozzie wrote:The rewrite that's needed to do new stuff with gang links will also affect a number of other things, including breaking one of the biggest remaining performance bottlenecks on Jita and big fleet fights. Unsurprisingly that helps raise its priority.
I got interested in that quote. Here it is: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3083138#post3083138
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DeLindsay
Galaxies Fall
251
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 00:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
Quote:Now don't get all mad, merely providing a balance to this idea. Question: By "push" do you mean me, my ships and all my stuff or just me in whatever I may be in be it a Pod or a Hull?
I understand the constraints on Jita but those "Price Checkers" that really annoy you: Alts on a paid account = same rights as someone in a system all on their own. Now Spammers really do get on my breasts (If I had them) but I think if you focused on combating spammers you'd see the population go down. It's not the pilots in system that's the problem its the activities they are doing in Jita that is. Stop the spammers = lowers the population but this would have to be hooked into chat related like a:
where [Char] has posted in Local [X Times] and content is unchanged in [X minutes] move to adjacent system. X times could be 5 times in 5 minutes for instance.
If you're having a conversation you will almost never going post the exact same thing 5 times in as many minutes. However this might just get rid of the spam bots and spammers in general. Just furthering the idea. Not mad just merely making my point. As for "pushing" someone out after w/e number of days, it'd be exactly like the system in place right now. If you log into a toon parked in Jita and it's full it gives you the option to allow the system to push you to a neighboring system. It doesn't move everything you own in XX Station from Jita to that system, just you. And all you would have to do is wait a small amount of time and you could re-enter Jita for another however many number of days before it happens again. The point is it would seriously **** off the chat spammers enough to hopefully lower the system pop enough that regular players doing regular business there could hop in-hop out without getting stuck in a neighboring system for minutes-hours.
I am also one of those players who pays real money for my game and also has a price check Alt parked in Jita, so my suggestion would effect me as well. No biggie I'd just move my price Alt to this or that neighboring system and leave them there instead of Jita 4-4, like everyone else does. The Operative:-á"There are a lot of innocent people being killed in the air right now".
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds:-á"You have no idea how true that is". |
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
135
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 10:58:00 -
[17] - Quote
DeLindsay wrote: -snipped- .
I still think a more robust solution is required rather than "Don't Move The Problem, Fix It" such as my suggestion 'where [Char] has posted in Local [X Times] and content is unchanged in [X minutes] move to adjacent system. X times could be 5 times in 5 minutes for instance.' This doesn't require the server to move people or for them to be in there for 48 hours. In fact it could go so far as to 'gag' them for the next 30 minutes for 1st offense of spamming, 1 hour for 2nd offense (10 spams in 10 minutes). Once you attack the spammers then you are reducing the population.
With the "Move Every 48hrs" idea you can get back in in 5 mins and sit there for another 48 hours. It doesn't do anything long term.
Gotta hit the root cause and not the symptom of the problem I think. My Feature\Idea:-á Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee"
Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult
398
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 11:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
Why not just have a 1mill per local message fee in Jita (and any other trade hub that's prone to spamming) with a popup asking for confirmation you want to post a comment at 1mill isk?
It wouldn't be financially viable for the spammers to keep spamming, it would add a new isk sink and lower the number of people hanging around. You could also add a 1mill price for proposing a duel in these systems as well to stop people just spamming duel on anyone and everyone.
Not saying this is definitely a good idea but it would probably lower the number of people in these overcrowded systems (although I've only heard people complaining about Jita). |
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
135
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 11:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tchulen wrote:Why not just have a 1mill per local message fee in Jita (and any other trade hub that's prone to spamming) with a popup asking for confirmation you want to post a comment at 1mill isk?
It wouldn't be financially viable for the spammers to keep spamming, it would add a new isk sink and lower the number of people hanging around. You could also add a 1mill price for proposing a duel in these systems as well to stop people just spamming duel on anyone and everyone.
Not saying this is definitely a good idea but it would probably lower the number of people in these overcrowded systems (although I've only heard people complaining about Jita).
I hear what you're saying but any restriction on normal people doing normal comms is bad. The 1mil per post would stop locals chatting (I'm not saying that they do now) but I don't think we should start charging per post.
On a side note you'd only encourage spammers as the "cheaper" spammers would be forced out of the market and the more affluent spammers would have more chance to get their "advert" up.
Just my thoughts.
EDIT: Also as PI is removed from places like Lustrevik just prevent Duelling in Jita. Sometimes it just has to be done. My Feature\Idea:-á Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee"
Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult
398
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Posted - 2013.06.07 12:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
Maximus Aerelius wrote:I hear what you're saying but any restriction on normal people doing normal comms is bad. The 1mil per post would stop locals chatting (I'm not saying that they do now) but I don't think we should start charging per post.
On a side note you'd only encourage spammers as the "cheaper" spammers would be forced out of the market and the more affluent spammers would have more chance to get their "advert" up.
Just my thoughts.
EDIT: Also as PI is removed from places like Lustrevik just prevent Duelling in Jita. Sometimes it just has to be done.
I agree that dueling in trade hubs should be prevented. The main reason for me saying charge for local chat is because at the moment local chat for anyone who actually wants to "chat" is impossible because of the speed of the chat scroll caused by spammers.
One potential is that they just disable local chat (just the chat, not the channel, necessarily) from Jita itself.
Whilst there is no "make everyone happy" solution I do see the problem. I tried to get one of my chars to login in Jita last sunday and had to wait (and try every minute or so) for 3 hours before I could log in. I could have logged in to somewhere else (it gave me that option) but I needed to do trade in Jita so needed to login there. It is an issue. Not an insurmountable one for a person of patience but considering I minimise the local chat in Jita because I don't want to see all the spam I don't see a problem to removing local chat in that system.
DISCLAIMER: these are personal views, not necessarily what I view as being best for the game. |
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Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
137
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Posted - 2013.06.07 12:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
@Tchulen I think we are all on the same page of:
- Remove the spammers
- Free the population to allow free movement in\out of Jita without Traffic Control have a sh*tfit with the gates
- Stop the Duelling "Spam My Screen" tactic AKA Invite To Convo Exploit
Still lots of good ideas in here and that's what it's about. None of my suggestions are "the best" just what my thoughts are. Perhaps the Devs have a plan but it should be something that doesn't affect normal everyday I've just come to buy something and get out players. My Feature\Idea:-á Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee"
Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult
398
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 13:01:00 -
[22] - Quote
Maximus Aerelius wrote:@Tchulen I think we are all on the same page of:
- Remove the spammers
- Free the population to allow free movement in\out of Jita without Traffic Control have a sh*tfit with the gates
- Stop the Duelling "Spam My Screen" tactic AKA Invite To Convo Exploit
Still lots of good ideas in here and that's what it's about. None of my suggestions are "the best" just what my thoughts are. Perhaps the Devs have a plan but it should be something that doesn't affect normal everyday I've just come to buy something and get out players.
Totally agree with you. |
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