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Blue Absinthe
Wardec U
5
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Posted - 2013.06.06 11:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Bit of background first..... As a relatively new player who's skilled for the recent patch I find myself in the odd position of being racially agnostic in the ships I can fly and overly invested in the BC class (I also injected Command Ships to dodge the extra training time post-patch). I spend the majority of my time PvPing, which is almost exclusively in frigates. Spending time building out my support skills for PVP is a priority for me however I also occasionally like to run missions if nothing much is going on.
Running the same old level 3 missions in my Myr is getting a little boring and I'd like to do level 4 missions if I can. In a perfect world I'd train up either a T3 or BSs, however it's a lot of training for a T3 and BSs just won't be useful for the type of PvP I do. Given I can already get in a CS I'm wondering how viable they are for L4s. Does anyone have any recommendations on what, if any, turret based CS might be decent for L4s? If the training for the guns/ship can translate to useful small gang/solo PvP down the road then all the better. At first I was leaning towards an absolution but having looked at the Sleipnir it looks like it might be better (and perhaps be more useful as far as PvP skills go). Do you AC or Arty fit a Sleipnir? Anyone else have any opinions on the Astarte or the the Absolution for level 4s? All advise welcome (including 'don't fly command ships' advise). |
Tauranon
Weeesearch
174
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Posted - 2013.06.06 11:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sleipner or learn to fit the myrmidon properly (ie use T2 sentries for PVE).
Suspect if I go look at the best build for a myrm - I have one buried on a highsec island somewhere - I'd come up with about 600 - 650 dps and 400 racial tank, and that is fine for L4s. |
Boomhaur
128
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Posted - 2013.06.06 11:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
I used to use a Nighthawk with great success before getting my Tengu. Put it short you pilot the same way as a drake, pick either passive or active tanking load up the lows with some BCU's highs with HML II's load kinetic fury missiles, turn on the AB drop a can with 1 ammo to set orbit and start shooting. Or pilot it towards something, either or. But the AB + orbit actually lets you semi speed tank.
That was pre heavy missile nerf though. Now days you might have to swap to those something else for the range. Tank wise its good, DPS is good, range though is the tough part as pre-nerf I got somewhere around 70km range now it's a fraction of that if I pilot one. So I don't think it's a very good option anymore.
As for the other command ships none of them caught my interest for lv4 mission running, so unless something big changed with this recent expansion (just reactivated account today) I think the same will hold true. From what I recall all the other command ships were a lot more inferior to BS's (now all with heavy missile nerf) for lv4's.
Though you can use faction ships with decent success it won't be the fastest thing in the world but it can get the job done. The Gila is a halfway decent drone boat to my understanding for lv4's. It doesn't have anything on the domi though, especially after the update but you still use your sub-bs skills for it minus training up for sentries for it.
Hopefully someone else chims in with more up to date advice but this should hopefully give you more information than you had before. Welcome to Eve. Everyone here is an Evil Sick Sadistic Bastard who is out to get you. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either trying to scam you or use you. |
Blue Absinthe
Wardec U
5
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Posted - 2013.06.06 11:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:Sleipner or learn to fit the myrmidon properly (ie use T2 sentries for PVE).
Suspect if I go look at the best build for a myrm - I have one buried on a highsec island somewhere - I'd come up with about 600 - 650 dps and 400 racial tank, and that is fine for L4s.
I had considered just training sentries for the Myr but only being able to field four it seems like at that point I should train for an Ishtar instead. Also with the AI changes it seems like that's fallen out of a favor a bit (perhaps I'm mistaken though?) |
Kasutra
Tailor Company Hashashin Cartel
203
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Posted - 2013.06.06 11:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
The AI changes don't affect sentries too much. If they catch aggro, you just scoop them in.
Haven't played with the Myrmidon since it got 100 bandwidth, but I'd guess it's at least competitive with the Ishtar. I'd base the Gallente Cruiser/Battlecruiser skill training decision on what else you foresee doing with these skills. |
Tauranon
Weeesearch
174
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Posted - 2013.06.06 12:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Blue Absinthe wrote:Tauranon wrote:Sleipner or learn to fit the myrmidon properly (ie use T2 sentries for PVE).
Suspect if I go look at the best build for a myrm - I have one buried on a highsec island somewhere - I'd come up with about 600 - 650 dps and 400 racial tank, and that is fine for L4s. I had considered just training sentries for the Myr but only being able to field four it seems like at that point I should train for an Ishtar instead. Also with the AI changes it seems like that's fallen out of a favor a bit (perhaps I'm mistaken though?)
You'd have to train the missing prereqs and gallente cruiser V for the ishtar AND also sentry V. where as it sounds like sentry V and you are mostly ready in the myrmidon - ie you could be in a myrmidon for a month whilst still preparing the ishtar.
sentryboats have very little drone aggro problems. If you are actually at keyboard locking targets and shooting them with your guns, and you shoot the frigates first - which makes sense for tracking reasons anyway, then you may not see drone aggro at all during an entire play session. I often don't.
The 4 sentry thing isn't actually a problem with a myrmidon. Its the intended method of use and it has more gunpower than an ishtar - its not a giant capability gap between them. I use 3 from a prophecy and 3 from a vexor too - for pve vastly superior to a mixed bag of heavies, meds and a light.
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Blue Absinthe
Wardec U
5
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Posted - 2013.06.06 12:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tauranon wrote: You'd have to train the missing prereqs and gallente cruiser V for the ishtar AND also sentry V......
Thanks for the info. I might actually end up headed that way and just upgrade the Myr I'm using now. That said, if anyone has any opinions on CSs for level 4s (and which ships) do let me know. Just seems a shame not to use them when I've got access to them (although I would have to level up the CS skill to 4-5). |
Katabrok First
Apukaray Security
42
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Posted - 2013.06.06 13:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
I used to run level 4's in an Astarte, against guristas, using 250 mm rails. At the time, it was It or my Rokh, and both of them were ok ships. Today I usually use a Machariel. The biggest problem was that you had to fly aro |
Verity Sovereign
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
447
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Posted - 2013.06.06 14:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
The Astarte should work well against Serpentis/guristas/EOM/Gallente/Caldari. The Absolution gets a resist bonus against Exp/Kin, but deals EM/Th damage... for PvE, that means that the enemies that its resist bonus is useful for, its damage type sucks against, while the enemies it does good damage against, hit normal resists. However, it does make for a good Omni armor tank, so should do well in PvP The Sleipnir has a good omni shield tank, and with selectable damage and a range bonus, should do well against most NPCs
Their DPS is pretty good, almost as good as their equivalent BSs. Their tank is pretty good, should be enough for lvl 4s
Their range is... meh I suppose you could use rails/beams/arty, and still track better than the BS's do.
I don't see why they wouldn't work for lvl 4s, I bought some for trying lvl 4s (the skill change let me bypass several skills, and get into them), I still haven't ferried them to my missioning hub/done much missioning after the patch. |
Blue Absinthe
Wardec U
5
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 18:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
Verity Sovereign wrote:Their range is... meh I suppose you could use rails/beams/arty, and still track better than the BS's do.
Anyone know if arty/beams are more standard than AC/pulses? Anyone have an opinion on the best turret based CS for PvE (and maybe PvP)? |
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Goldiiee
Tax and War Haven
401
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Posted - 2013.06.06 20:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
I have a Sliepnir that gets close to 1300dps tank, right at 1000dps gank, moves around at 1250m/s it's not a cheap build but fun to fly. main problem is range getting within 16km to start hitting is frustrating (or switch to Barrage and the range hits 32km but DPS drops to 750) but that's what the MWD is for, tooling around at 1250m/s closing ranges solves most of the problems.
Fun ship to fly and worth every day of training to CS 5.
The most common phenomenon in evolution is when nature experiments.
The measure of such is-á E X T I N C T I O N . . . |
Dr Cedric
Independent Miners Corporation Care Factor
21
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Posted - 2013.06.06 20:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
Goldiiee wrote:I have a Sliepnir that gets close to 1300dps tank, right at 1000dps gank, moves around at 1250m/s it's not a cheap build but fun to fly. main problem is range getting within 16km to start hitting is frustrating (or switch to Barrage and the range hits 32km but DPS drops to 750) but that's what the MWD is for, tooling around at 1250m/s closing ranges solves most of the problems.
Fun ship to fly and worth every day of training to CS 5.
I agree with the above. I've used Tengus, Ravens, SNI's, Nighthawks, Vultures, Eagles, Deimoses, Cerberuses, Domi's, Megathrons, Rokhs, Claymores and Sleipnirs, and Drakes for level 4's.
Above all, I liked the Sliepnir. It is fast, high damage, works well as a kiter w/ Arty's, a brawler w/ AC's, is easy to tank, does a great job at speed tanking (for PvE anyway) and is pretty forgiving. My next favorite is SNI, followed by Nighthawk. NH does great w/ Furies because of the explo. vel (or radius...can't remember) bonus. Range is good enough if you pack an AB to motor around. It generally finished missions as fast as I care to worry about.
All in all, Sleip and NH would be the best options IMO.
Hope it helps Cedric
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Tsukino Stareine
EVE University Ivy League
304
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Posted - 2013.06.06 21:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
my next goal is an arty sleip, already perfected my myrmidon (almost, drone interfacing V a week away). Tauranon's numbers are a bit inflated, you won't be able to get 600+ DPS on a myrm and retain a 400 DPS tank without using deadspace mods though level 4s are still no match for a t2 fit sentry myrm. The only mission I've had trouble with is angel extravaganza bonus room where the sentry turrets (ironic, huh) destroy you and I had to break out the drake to tank that.
[Myrmidon, armourpve] Armor Thermic Hardener II Reactive Armor Hardener Medium Armor Repairer II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II 10MN Afterburner II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor M Drone Link Augmentor I
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Ionic Field Projector I
Garde II x4
this is what I currently use and it's literally just under 600 DPS with gardes (you can get more using faction short range ammo but it's kind of pointless the artillery is there to add to your ranged damage).
Gardes have a 52km optimal and 0.06 tracking which is enough to hit things at under 10km orbiting you cruiser sized and above.
every other sentry shoots further than you can target.
Only way I would improve this fit further now is by replacing one omni for a faction one and replacing the DLA I with a DLA II, which is a bit too much pimp for a T1 BC but im seriously considering it >.>. Could also make the repper deadspace but then were really just being silly.
Also the reactive armour hardener is epic. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
1263
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 21:07:00 -
[14] - Quote
Goldiiee wrote:I have a Sliepnir that gets close to 1300dps tank, right at 1000dps gank, moves around at 1250m/s it's not a cheap build but fun to fly. main problem is range getting within 16km to start hitting is frustrating (or switch to Barrage and the range hits 32km but DPS drops to 750) but that's what the MWD is for, tooling around at 1250m/s closing ranges solves most of the problems.
Fun ship to fly and worth every day of training to CS 5.
Sounds very similar to mine. I've used an arty fit to good effect too though; it really does wonders to mitigate the range issue. You're still hitting 600 DPS before implants, so it isn't shabby. Overall the AC fit is more fun to fly though. |
Blue Absinthe
Wardec U
5
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 21:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
Thanks for the feedback everyone. I really thought I'd get much more 'NOOOOOOOO don't do it! train for a drake!'. Sounds like the Sliepnir is the way to go. |
The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
75
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 21:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
All CS can do L4.
Nighthawk and Sleip are probably the most practical ships for it. The NH because it got a lot of range and ok dps at range and the Sleip because it is fast and can get in range with artillery in a reasonable time frame.
Absolution is a bit to slow, if you got CS 5 it does pretty good damage(you can fit 3-4 HS and a T2 damage rig without any tanking issues) however I would still prefer a Legion or Zealot, since the extra range is more practical than the 200-300 extra dps at 10km, especially given that both are a lot faster than the Absolution. Beam fitted it does ok, but is similar to the rail Astarte a bit low on the DPS front.
Rail Astarte can work but it lacks dps. |
Blue Absinthe
Wardec U
5
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 22:47:00 -
[17] - Quote
The Djego wrote:All CS can do L4.
Nighthawk and Sleip are probably the most practical ships for it. The NH because it got a lot of range and ok dps at range and the Sleip because it is fast and can get in range with artillery in a reasonable time frame(AC fittings are meh, even if the paper dps look good, you simply lack the range).
Absolution is a bit to slow, if you got CS 5 it does pretty good damage(you can fit 3-4 HS and a T2 damage rig without any tanking issues) however I would still prefer a Legion or Zealot, since the extra range is more practical than the 200-300 extra dps at 10km, especially given that both are a lot faster than the Absolution. Beam fitted it does ok, but is similar to the rail Astarte a bit low on the DPS front.
Rail Astarte can work but it lacks dps.
Thanks for the info. I'd like a turret based ship so it seems like Sleipnir is the one that everyone's recommending. If anyone has any comments on the build I'm thinking of please let me know (including whether you think it can handle level 4s etc).
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/66275-Level-4-DED-4-Cheap-PvE-Sleipnir.html |
The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
81
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 01:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
Would probably prefer something like this:
[Sleipnir, New Setup 1] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster Cap Recharger II Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion M Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Light Missile
Medium Projectile Burst Aerator II Medium Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard II
Warrior II x5 Warrior II x3
It deals the same dps(if you don't want to use faction ammo with the high rof of 7 medium ACs), got more range, similar tank is basically cap stable(the only mission that needs more than 30 minutes is if you want do AE + bonus stage). I would even drop the cap recharger for a extra TC to improve the range. The decision is yours. |
Ireland VonVicious
Vendetta Syndicate
155
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 01:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
As cute as this entire thread is.
Just train up a BS so you can be useful in groups that get in cap fights.
It might not be your thing right now but once you do L4's instead of L3's you will make a lot more isk.
Nothing will stop you from learning other aspects of PvP. |
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