Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Metal Icarus
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
569
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 14:33:00 -
[61] - Quote
You're a suspect
AND You're a suspect
EVERYONE'S A SUSPECT!!!!
'merika, land of the free*
*void where prohibited**
**Prohibited in the United States of America |
Kult Altol
Confederation Navy Research Epsilon Fleet
392
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 19:43:00 -
[62] - Quote
Your free not to use the Internet.
Lol An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded. A narrow mind is a focused mind.
|
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
242
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 22:41:00 -
[63] - Quote
jason hill wrote: Canada and new zealand
Please forgive me. I didn't mean to leave out these important Anglosphere nations, especially as one day I'd like to live in one of them .
|
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
242
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 22:45:00 -
[64] - Quote
Jada Maroo wrote:People need to watch the full interview with Edward Snowden here.This guy is not a crazy. Or a partisan. He's not some bitter traitor like Bradley Manning. He warns about exactly the concern I had earlier in the thread.
If I were him, I would have retained my honour, not betrayed my country, left my job to satisfy my sense of morality and lobbied for changes to law without giving the entire game away. Like Assange, this guy is just an attention seeker who wants everyone to know he's some kind of a big shot.
The most surprising thing that comes from this is the inadequacy of the NSA's psychological profiling of the people it employs.
|
Hrothgar Nilsson
Black Guards
336
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 22:50:00 -
[65] - Quote
This guy had access to an absolutely enormous amount of material. If he wanted to do a Bradley Manning, he could have done it by one or two orders of magnitude. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTzA_xesrL8 |
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
19313
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 22:53:00 -
[66] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Jada Maroo wrote:People need to watch the full interview with Edward Snowden here.This guy is not a crazy. Or a partisan. He's not some bitter traitor like Bradley Manning. He warns about exactly the concern I had earlier in the thread. If I were him, I would have retained my honour, not betrayed my country, left my job to satisfy my sense of morality and lobbied for changes to law without giving the entire game away. Like Assange, this guy is just an attention seeker who wants everyone to know he's some kind of a big shot. The most surprising thing that comes from this is the inadequacy of the NSA's psychological profiling of the people it employs. Part of the problem is it all being done behind closed doors, if you have secrets within secrets like this it gets problematic. As I understand it the Executive branch has told the Legislature about a top secret program which they then sign off on, authorised by a closed session of a secret Judicial which then interprets the top secret Legislature in a legal, though quite different manner for the Executive.
Thats the problem, going down the rabbit hole on which secrets people think they know, but just being manipulated into being secretive.
Frankly I could care less what the US does to spy on its own citizens, I'm concerned about actions that may be being done in the UK with GCHQ's involvement.
I am not ordinarily one to be politically proactive or a conspiracy theorist, but the existence of such a program is worrying as it now stands, how deep does the rabbit hole go? Wrapping my head around the data so far it doesn't seem as bad as was first indicated, but still somewhat unsettling.
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede! |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
242
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 22:54:00 -
[67] - Quote
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:This guy had access to an absolutely enormous amount of material. If he wanted to do a Bradley Manning, he could have done it by one or two orders of magnitude.
That doesn't mean he isn't a douche. |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
242
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 23:02:00 -
[68] - Quote
Kirjava wrote: I am not ordinarily one to be politically proactive or a conspiracy theorist, but the existence of such a program is worrying as it now stands, how deep does the rabbit hole go? Wrapping my head around the data so far it doesn't seem as bad as was first indicated, but still somewhat unsettling.
Watch Haigh's statement to the commons today (on iPlayer, BBC Parliament). He makes it crystal clear what's going on. |
Malaclypse Muscaria
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
46
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 00:06:00 -
[69] - Quote
Kirjava wrote:Frankly I could care less what the US does to spy on its own citizens, I'm concerned about actions that may be being done in the UK with GCHQ's involvement.
I am not ordinarily one to be politically proactive or a conspiracy theorist, but the existence of such a program is worrying as it now stands, how deep does the rabbit hole go? Wrapping my head around the data so far it doesn't seem as bad as was first indicated, but still somewhat unsettling.
US intelligence services do have a far more colorful history of being naughty and paranoid than their European counterparts, and in general European companies and politicians have kept a stronger stance on protecting and respecting the privacy of their citizens than across the pond... but regardless of cultural and legal differences, it all comes down to us flawed humans, no matter where we come from.
About a decade ago, I used to work for an Internet European multinational: regardless of all the stringent European laws protecting the private data of our users, and regardless of all the privacy legal statements decorating our website, one day when the company was going through a rough financial situation, one of the top managers personally came down to the engineering department and asked us point-blank to provide him with a full database dump of our users' private data, in an easy to use format, so he could sell it off to spammers or whatevers.
Every day, bad decisions are taken, no matter if it's on a school yard, a corporate office, or a government, no matter the country, the culture, or the political affiliation. It's all the same, it's just the wrapping and the magnitude of the consequences that varies: we are only flawed humans, and we never left behind the school-yard dynamics.
As an aside, and speaking of conspiracies, an interesting aspect I find in all these hoopla, is how it illustrates how those worldwide all-encompassing conspiracies the Alex Jones cultists are so in love with, could never work: here we have, the NSA / CIA themselves, entrusting access to their "super-secret" government spying program to some high school dropout working for some external contractor, with a personal record of giving money to the campaign of none other than Mr. I-Hate-Big-Federal-Government Ron Paul...
Alex Jones & co keep forgetting that, on one hand human stupidity is boundless. And on the other hand, that in order to be able to pull off the sort of vast conspiracies bent on decimating the human race they keeping spouting about, it would require the countless humans involved, all around the world, never making a mistake, never letting their tongues loose on the wrong sort of ears, never having qualms or second-thoughts on this whole let's-enslave-and-decimate-the-human-race business.
|
Jada Maroo
Southern Cross Empire Flying Dangerous
1145
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 02:11:00 -
[70] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote: If I were him, I would have retained my honour, not betrayed my country, left my job to satisfy my sense of morality and lobbied for changes to law without giving the entire game away.
I know full well the reason he left the country and didn't bother speaking to Congress.
What's going to happen to the Congressman he contacts? They're going to get a phone call from the NSA letting them know they have the receipt of the Thai ladyboy locked away in the Congressman's basement.
Next thing you know, Snowden is sold out, scooped up, and disappeared. |
|
Rain6638
Team Evil
483
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 05:59:00 -
[71] - Quote
he keeps referring to the rest of his life as if it's a definite time frame
also, according to this article he wants to work for CCP Thanatoses for sale | is this what a Nyx sitter looks like? |
Aragoni
Aliastra Gallente Federation
115
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 07:23:00 -
[72] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:This guy had access to an absolutely enormous amount of material. If he wanted to do a Bradley Manning, he could have done it by one or two orders of magnitude. That doesn't mean he isn't a douche.
What makes him a douche really? You referred to him earlier as a "betrayer", but I have still to understand your logic. How can a person that warns the people about their government going outside the boundries be a betrayer? This guy is a hero that has more balls than Duke Nuke'em, and the people from all around the world (well except maybe North Koreans as they have no information to share to begin with) should treat him as such. |
jason hill
The Riot Formation Unclaimed.
292
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 08:02:00 -
[73] - Quote
well if everybody is so paranoid about the NSA monitoring you internet habits then This may be the software for you |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
253
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 08:07:00 -
[74] - Quote
Jada Maroo wrote: What's going to happen to the Congressman he contacts? They're going to get a phone call from the NSA letting them know they have the receipt of the Thai ladyboy locked away in their basement.
What nonsense.
|
Hrothgar Nilsson
Black Guards
338
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 08:25:00 -
[75] - Quote
The fact is given what his position was and what he knows, sending a letter to a congressman or lobbying would have placed him in a very bad situation.
Besides, before the specifics of what he revealed there were already tons of people writing, protesting, and lobbying against stuff just like the stuff he delivered hard proof on. The difference being those people didn't have proof or direct knowledge.
Was he supposed to be extremely vague in his letters and lobbying? Because saying the same thing as the people who had proof or direct knowledge places him in the same situation he's in now, as an ex-CIA employee, ex-NSA contractor with direct knowledge.
Right or wrong, him going about it the way he did was likely the only practical method that would have been effective. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTzA_xesrL8 |
Xpaulusx
Naari LLC
226
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 11:17:00 -
[76] - Quote
* Waits for Skynet in Utah to become self aware ...................................................... |
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
19495
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 12:10:00 -
[77] - Quote
Heard Russia is now considering offering him political asylum should he request it. Its somewhat ironic to see the positions turned, with the US the paranoid surveillance state and Russia offering asylum in a political game. What are the odds of him being pardoned at the end of Obamas term or as part of a Republican manifesto?
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede! |
Othran
Route One
549
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 12:25:00 -
[78] - Quote
jason hill wrote:theres nothing new in this ...its been going on for ages I should know I worked for a company that was involved in doing it . linky for those that don't believe . racal instruments
LOL you worked for Racal? Snap, although I left nearly 20 years ago. What a company that was once, Vodafone, Chubb, Decca etc. -ú100 invested in Racal in 1960 was worth -ú1.1m in 1990. Not a bad RoI mmm? |
Zhula Guixgrixks
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
38
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 13:02:00 -
[79] - Quote
The appetite for power and control is bottomless. The more you give the more they want. If the only foundation of "checks & balances" is to blindly trust them , it's not working anymore.
Lot of people in Europe still remember what is it to live in a dictatorship. So they are more sensitive to governmental lies. And they lie a lot, everywhere. I guess US has to make its own experience with it. The winter is coming ... ;-) 0ccupational Hazzard --> check out the true love story-á |
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
19539
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 13:10:00 -
[80] - Quote
The anger is growing in the political circles this side of the Atlantic, Angela Merkel is from East Germany and we can expect her to take a certain perspective to this. The Italians are pretty angry too, and the G8 is being hosted in the UK this week.
I think they're going to grill the American delegates hard for an explanation as to why they are spying on Europeans, we had enough of that during the Cold War from the Soviets without worrying about America.
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede! |
|
Hrothgar Nilsson
Black Guards
338
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 13:24:00 -
[81] - Quote
If he sticks by his guns with regards to what he's expressed as his beliefs and philosophy, he won't take a Russian offer of asylum.
On another topic: if he wants to get to Iceland, he's going to have to:
A) catch a flight before charges are filed B) book that flight with an airline that's based out of a country --1) sympathetic to what he's done, and/or --2) no extradition arrangement with the USA C) the above apply to any country he catches a connecting flight in
No doubt he's juggling the logistics of that now if he's planning to leave Hong Kong.
Now obviously leaving from Hawaii he probably calculated there was a risk of being detained if he traveled to Iceland, as he'd either have to land in the US or Canada, or do an insane amount of gymnastics in booking flights in and out of places in such a way the sum of which he may have thought might arouse suspicion. Catching a direct flight to Hong Kong from Honolulu was probably the easiest way to flee. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTzA_xesrL8 |
Othran
Route One
549
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 14:07:00 -
[82] - Quote
Kirjava wrote:The anger is growing in the political circles this side of the Atlantic, Angela Merkel is from East Germany and we can expect her to take a certain perspective to this.
Ummm Angela's background in the East prior to reunification isn't what I think you think it is
Also everyone in "political circles" this side of the pond knows full well this sort of stuff has been going on for years. The only "anger" you'll see in Europe (apart from the French who hate the USA anyway) will be for domestic political consumption. ie - look at me, I take no **** from the yankee dogs In private it'll be business as usual.
Its just nice to see all the firms named and shamed is all. |
Zhula Guixgrixks
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
38
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 14:32:00 -
[83] - Quote
Merkel saw the NSA spy heat map. On this map, Germany has the first place among all european countries. It's also an open secret that agencies steal know how from foreign companies. You can imagine what it is all about. Btw :-D 0ccupational Hazzard --> check out the true love story-á |
Malaclypse Muscaria
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
47
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 14:36:00 -
[84] - Quote
Zhula Guixgrixks wrote:Merkel saw the NSA spy heat map. On this map, Germany has the first place among all european countries. It's also an open secret that agencies steal know how from foreign companies. You can imagine what it is all about. Btw :-D
From the Wikipedia article on Echelon:
Wikipedia wrote:British journalist Duncan Campbell and New Zealand journalist Nicky Hager asserted in the 1990s that the United States was exploiting ECHELON traffic for industrial espionage, rather than military and diplomatic purposes.[10] Examples alleged by the journalists include the gear-less wind turbine technology designed by the German firm Enercon[5][11] and the speech technology developed by the Belgian firm Lernout & Hauspie.[12] An article in the US newspaper Baltimore Sun reported in 1995 that European aerospace company Airbus lost a $6 billion contract with Saudi Arabia in 1994 after the US National Security Agency reported that Airbus officials had been bribing Saudi officials to secure the contract.[13][14]
In 2001, the Temporary Committee on the ECHELON Interception System recommended to the European Parliament that citizens of member states routinely use cryptography in their communications to protect their privacy, because economic espionage with ECHELON has been conducted by the US intelligence agencies.[5] |
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
308
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 14:50:00 -
[85] - Quote
Espionage, spying, hostile takeovers, murder.... Have been 'acceptable' tactics in every form of government since the beginning of organized society. So what makes people think our current government and Multi-National Companies would do any different?
If you don't like the tracking remove yourself from the grid because technology will not be hindered and those in power will utilize it to further their own ends. To think otherwise is naive at best.
Fake Edit: I do not personally condone it, but I am also not going to sit here and act like the above mentioned tactics have not been tolerated by the worlds populations for centuries. |
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
19548
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 14:56:00 -
[86] - Quote
Zhula Guixgrixks wrote:Merkel saw the NSA spy heat map. On this map, Germany has the first place among all european countries. It's also an open secret that agencies steal know how from foreign companies. You can imagine what it is all about. Btw :-D Aye, seems to me we have a case to push in the WTO perhaps. I am under no illusions as to who thinks they knew what, but with hard information comes the capacity to counter and posture. Thinks like the EU-US Open Skies program or the negotiations for TAFTA.
Besides, if a few brownie points can be made by posturing to make moves towards more encryption and data security then so much the better.
Merkel is shrewd and knows the mentality of a surveillance state is what I mean, not that she would object on principle. She might, but she's been intelligent and shrewd enough to let on one way or another. And the French don't bash America as a rule either, they have principles and friend or foe they follow them.
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede! |
Malaclypse Muscaria
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
48
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 14:58:00 -
[87] - Quote
"The more things change, the more they stay the same." |
Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions
215
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 15:13:00 -
[88] - Quote
prism-break |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
264
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 17:45:00 -
[89] - Quote
How hilarious that this gigantic douche has betrayed his own country, friends, girlfriend, family over what he says is a civil liberties issue and is thinking of running to Russia, where journalists who uncover corruption are routinely murdered by gunmen on motorbikes. |
Hrothgar Nilsson
Black Guards
339
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 21:12:00 -
[90] - Quote
When did this Snowden guy say he was thinking of running to Russia?
A Russian official said they'd consider an asylum request if they received one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTzA_xesrL8 |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |