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EglantinFinfleur
The Scope Gallente Federation
46
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Posted - 2013.06.07 12:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
- Gankers and scammers see the red flags announcing ganks and scams, since it's their trade - The former will dock and run missions on an alt, the latter are permadocked alts. - People falling victim to ganks and scams are people who naively believe that, in an online video game, there is a tacit agreement to play so that everybody has fun, instead of going out of your way to make people mad (tears, lulz etc)
This game is only harsh and cold for people who choose to behave as sensible beings. How does that even make sense?
In this gamer, people who are disruptive on purpose are coddled, as they, and their potential victims, need alts to grief and escape rules-abiding griefing. This makes sense from a business point of view, but how does it make any from a gaming point of view?
Is this still a game, or an online social platform to carry out in a virtual universe what you couldn't IRL, for fear of retribution? |
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
191
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Posted - 2013.06.07 12:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
what about the people who gank/scam as their primary profession?
On a side note, I'm tempted to start ninja salvaging again to polish my combat probing. |
l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
465
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 12:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
Eh, not sure where you getting at. What is your point?
You don't need an alt to have fun. German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com |
dexington
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
650
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 12:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
EglantinFinfleur wrote:Is this still a game, or an online social platform to carry out in a virtual universe what you couldn't IRL, for fear of retribution?
no, i also fly spaceships in real life I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
EglantinFinfleur
The Scope Gallente Federation
46
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 12:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
Well, that's my point precisely. You can't gank or scam them, since it's their trade, and they're good at it.
You can't get back at people who choose to be disruptive of their fellow player's experience. Gank and scams victims are people who don't gank and scam. |
EglantinFinfleur
The Scope Gallente Federation
46
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Posted - 2013.06.07 12:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
l0rd carlos wrote:Eh, not sure where you getting at. What is your point?
You don't need an alt to have fun.
If my idea of fun is to rid New Eden of gankbears and scammers, how could i proceed?
They've polished their business, and won't be caught with their pants down, since catching people in such a state is what they're good at. There's no use hiring mercs to collect their frozen corpses either, since they use multiple accounts, and keep their assets on a low-profile char. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14645
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Posted - 2013.06.07 12:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
EglantinFinfleur wrote:Is this still a game, or an online social platform to carry out in a virtual universe what you couldn't IRL, for fear of retribution? They're the same thing.
Quote:You can't gank or scam them, since it's their trade, and they're good at it. Yes you can.
Quote:If my idea of fun is to rid New Eden of gankbears and scammers, how could i proceed? You shouldn't. Griefing people out of the game is a bannable offence. Instead, you should probably pick a different game that gives you what you want. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
192
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 12:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
EglantinFinfleur wrote:Well, that's my point precisely. You can't gank or scam them, since it's their trade, and they're good at it.
You can't get back at people who choose to be disruptive of their fellow player's experience. Gank and scams victims are people who don't gank and scam.
so.......Learn to EVE, HTFU, or Go Back To WoW?
not......really sure what else can be said. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
9125
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 12:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sandbox, working as intended.
Eve is advertised as a universe full of asshats and some people still expect it to be all happiness and fluffy.
HTFU
I eat your hatred for breakfast, then wash it down with your tears. |
EglantinFinfleur
The Scope Gallente Federation
46
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 12:22:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tippia wrote:EglantinFinfleur wrote:Is this still a game, or an online social platform to carry out in a virtual universe what you couldn't IRL, for fear of retribution? They're the same thing. Quote:You can't gank or scam them, since it's their trade, and they're good at it. Yes you can.
A game is a social platform to behave like a sociopath, and seek RL satisfaction, making some random joe mad? Isn't a game a virtual universe in which you play pretend, and tacitly agree to make it immersive and fun for everyone?
No, you can't gank or scam people who chose those activities as their trade. Assuming you can pod them, their assets are on another unrelated char altogether. What's the point?
Also, why don't you answer private mails? Is your form of communication one-liners for all to see? |
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Maybelater Headache
Republic University Minmatar Republic
17
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Posted - 2013.06.07 12:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
This is clearly not your game, let it go. Sad but true.
Beside this i am totally tired of this stupid htfu meme |
Lexmana
965
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 12:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
EglantinFinfleur wrote:Is this still a game, or an online social platform to carry out in a virtual universe what you couldn't IRL, for fear of retribution? Most games are like that. They let you do things you, dont want too, wouldn't get away with or couldn't do IRL. If it was just like RL why play the game? |
EglantinFinfleur
The Scope Gallente Federation
46
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 12:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Quote:If my idea of fun is to rid New Eden of gankbears and scammers, how could i proceed? You shouldn't. Griefing people out of the game is a bannable offence. Instead, you should probably pick a different game that gives you what you want.
It isn't, since players randomly boast about having made players ragequit after a gank or a scam. What's bannable, is repetitive harrassment of the same person.
Also, getting rid of gankbears and scammers means, making their trade so unpalatable to them so that they choose a different activity in New Eden.
You're the most despicable poster in these forums. Always cherrypicking, twisting what's meant, etc...
How much do you weigh?
If you were at all visually pleasing, would you be a sarcastic hipster? |
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
309
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Posted - 2013.06.07 12:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
OP, when playing Chess do you agree to not capture Queens, "to make the game fun"/ In checkers, do you limit the number of kings, in order to stay fair? How bout Risk, promise not to put overwhelming defensive armies at chokepoints, just to keep the game moving?
Doing those things sounds pretty silly. Restricting legal actions in the sandbox is just as silly. Adapt or die. Don't worry miners, I'm here to help!
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Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting Home Front Coalition
504
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 12:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
Hey, I'm pretty "disruptive" but I need no stinking alts to haul my crap! People need to activate their killrights, but they don't. |
EglantinFinfleur
The Scope Gallente Federation
46
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 12:30:00 -
[16] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:EglantinFinfleur wrote:Is this still a game, or an online social platform to carry out in a virtual universe what you couldn't IRL, for fear of retribution? Most games are like that. They let you do things you, dont want too, wouldn't get away with or couldn't do IRL. If it was just like RL why play the game?
No, most games have unfortunately and preemptively limit players' freedom, so that immersion-ruining ("lol u mad bro? uninstall bro, unsubscribe bro") and Schadenfreude-oriented gameplay is impossible.
The best MMOs would be complete sandboxes, with community managers permabanning players who only enjoy being a nuisance, and ruining immersion for others.
Maybelater Headache wrote:This is clearly not your game, let it go. Sad but true.
Beside this i am totally tired of this stupid htfu meme
My chars are probably off to the biomass queue, aye. Have been trying to find a purpose in this game since 2003, but policing space lanes and trying to amend online sociopaths' ways is not possible given the gameplay and unrelated accounts.
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Sandbox, working as intended.
Eve is advertised as a universe full of asshats and some people still expect it to be all happiness and fluffy.
HTFU
If said asshats were coherent with New Eden I wouldn't have a problem. But they're just out to make you rage, they're not play pretending pod pilots |
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
193
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 12:30:00 -
[17] - Quote
EglantinFinfleur wrote:Tippia wrote:Quote:If my idea of fun is to rid New Eden of gankbears and scammers, how could i proceed? You shouldn't. Griefing people out of the game is a bannable offence. Instead, you should probably pick a different game that gives you what you want. It isn't, since players randomly boast about having made players ragequit after a gank or a scam. What's bannable, is repetitive harrassment of the same person. Also, getting rid of gankbears and scammers means, making their trade so unpalatable to them so that they choose a different activity in New Eden. You're the most despicable poster in these forums. Always cherrypicking, twisting what's meant, etc... How much do you weigh? If you were at all visually pleasing, would you be a sarcastic hipster?
you're on a forum on the internet. and you're concerned about badpoasting.
......seriously?
Insert "Leave Bri--" er, "Leave Tippia Alone!!!!!" here
Also, EVE is a cold, dark place. Full of dangers for the stupid and uninformed. It has some of the worst dregs of the internet trolling its forums and scamming and ganking its citizens. This should never change. You White Knighters expect everyone to act honorably and by your space bushido. Not gonna happen.
Because at heart, people are Assholes.
But on the other hand, EVE is also home to the greatest, most welcoming, and greatest community ever.
Because at heart, people are awesome.
It's the greatest dichotomy around. |
Maybelater Headache
Republic University Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 12:31:00 -
[18] - Quote
EglantinFinfleur wrote: How much do you weigh?
If you were at all visually pleasing, would you be a sarcastic hipster?
It-¦s safe to say you are an idiot.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14645
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 12:33:00 -
[19] - Quote
EglantinFinfleur wrote:A game is a social platform to behave like a sociopath, and seek RL satisfaction, making some random joe mad? Fixed.
Quote:Isn't a game a virtual universe in which you play pretend, and tacitly agree to make it immersive and fun for everyone? Not really, no. A game is a set of rules and a magic circle within which those rules apply over everything else. If you don't enjoy the the rules, then the only way to make you have fun in the game is to break those rules, which makes it unfun for those who do enjoy them. For instance, your wish to grief people out of the game just because you dislike the rules of the game shows that your only intent is to make the game not fun. A better solution for you would be to play a game where you like the rule set, and leave this game to those who likes the rules of this game GÇö that way, everyone can have fun.
Quote:No, you can't gank or scam people who chose those activities as their trade. Yes you can. There is no magical switch that makes them immune to the same game mechanics everyone else abide by.
Quote:It isn't, since players randomly boast about having made players ragequit after a gank or a scam. What's bannable, is repetitive harrassment of the same person. Yes it is. Go read the EULA. That's why your plan is a very very bad idea. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
193
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 12:33:00 -
[20] - Quote
EglantinFinfleur wrote:The best MMOs would be complete sandboxes, with community managers permabanning players who only enjoy being a nuisance, and ruining immersion for others.
That's NOT a sandbox.
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EglantinFinfleur
The Scope Gallente Federation
48
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 12:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
Himnos Altar wrote: Also, EVE is a cold, dark place. Full of dangers for the stupid and uninformed.
No, it's only full of dangers for people who naively believe that there is, in a game, a tacit agreement not to seek to ruin your fellow gamer's experience. Anonymity and online gaming negate this agreement for people without empathy.
I wouldn't have a problem with EvE being a game chock full of wannabes **** Cheney who can finally be aggressive in a virtual world with zero consequences for their actions (unrelated accounts, alts), if there was another space game with persistent world, single shard etc. |
Ramona McCandless
Standards and Practices Petition Blizzard
140
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 12:36:00 -
[22] - Quote
Himnos Altar wrote:EglantinFinfleur wrote:The best MMOs would be complete sandboxes, with community managers permabanning players who only enjoy being a nuisance, and ruining immersion for others. That's NOT a sandbox.
How isnt it "You are even dumber than everyone says." - Kristopher Rocancourt
Tell The Others |
Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
9125
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 12:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
Let's look at this a different way, if there were no scammers and gankers in the Eve universe would the game be as interesting to play as it is?
It's all well and good hoping for a utopia, however a dystopia makes life much more interesting, without the risk of being ganked or scammed gameplay in Eve would be mind numbingly boring.
Point of fact, 90% of the Eve trailers feature themes of violence and revenge, they don't feature the "carebear" side of Eve. The same goes for a lot of the press that Eve gets, the headlines are about epic scams, massive wars and tales of general asshattery, and it's not just the gaming press that uses those themes when talking about Eve. Eve players and the game itself are notorious, and that notoriety makes for good press, and good press generates interest and subscriptions.
I eat your hatred for breakfast, then wash it down with your tears. |
EglantinFinfleur
The Scope Gallente Federation
48
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 12:39:00 -
[24] - Quote
Tippia wrote:EglantinFinfleur wrote:A game is a social platform to behave like a sociopath, and seek RL satisfaction, making some random joe mad? Fixed. Quote:Isn't a game a virtual universe in which you play pretend, and tacitly agree to make it immersive and fun for everyone? Not really, no. A game is a set of rules and a magic circle within which those rules apply over everything else. If you don't enjoy the the rules, then the only way to make you have fun in the game is to break those rules, which makes it unfun for those who do enjoy them. For instance, your wish to grief people out of the game just because you dislike the rules of the game shows that your only intent is to make the game not fun. A better solution for you would be to play a game where you like the rule set, and leave this game to those who likes the rules of this game GÇö that way, everyone can have fun. Quote:No, you can't gank or scam people who chose those activities as their trade. Yes you can. There is no magical switch that makes them immune to the same game mechanics everyone else abide by. Quote:It isn't, since players randomly boast about having made players ragequit after a gank or a scam. What's bannable, is repetitive harrassment of the same person. Yes it is. Go read the EULA. That's why your plan is a very very bad idea.
You cannot comprehend that some people play for ingame goals, in a play pretend universe, and other play only to make people mad IRL.
The latter being the vast community of gankers and scammers. This has nothing to do with ingame rules.
So, is a game a social platform to behave like a sociopath, and seek RL satisfaction, making some random joe mad?
Also, getting rid of gankbears and scammers means, making their trade so unpalatable to them so that they choose a different activity in New Eden.
|
UKBigWolf
22
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Posted - 2013.06.07 12:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
Take all rules away from RL and Eve will look like Ponies in Space by comparison Hell look at the world already as people are starting to remember laws are meaningless unless enforced, and even then, some still don't care |
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
244
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Posted - 2013.06.07 12:40:00 -
[26] - Quote
I think you could do both - in theory... Get rid of scammers and get rid of gankers - to a certain degree.
The ultimate factor is time. And the second variable is manpower. The prerequisites are charisma, cunning, some intelligence & a truckload of coffee. Not to speak of lots of determination.
But - over years - if you had all that, in theory, you could build a huge Alliance with the goal to "police" areas known as typical ganker hotspots. You could spend even more time trying to explain to some freighter pilots, why their 35B load freighter was attacked and shot down. People would learn to trust you. And there you go - at the end of the next decade of EVE you'd probably be well-respected & giving speeches at the Alliance podiums each year.
The same goes for scammers. You could - with the same requirements as above - build a huge contracting service that would be policed by you and other avid anti-scammers. Kind of a third party service. It could even include a "double ISK back" lottery. ;)
You could pretty much reach any point with your capsuleer you want. The only question - aside from the necessary talents - is, do you want to make the investment this requires? It would probably eat a big chunk out of your private life.
But whining at the status quo is not something that helps in EVE or RL. At least not in my experience. No offense meant... It is just: If you want to reach a goal, it is usually 15% genius and 80% tenacity and 5% sheer luck. ;) |
RomeStar
Empire Investments Logistics
162
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 12:40:00 -
[27] - Quote
EglantinFinfleur wrote:Well, that's my point precisely. You can't gank or scam them, since it's their trade, and they're good at it.
You can't get back at people who choose to be disruptive of their fellow player's experience. Gank and scams victims are people who don't gank and scam.
As it is in real life.
Signatured removed, CCP Phantom |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
797
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 12:41:00 -
[28] - Quote
EglantinFinfleur wrote:Is this still a game, or an online social platform to carry out in a virtual universe what you couldn't IRL, for fear of retribution?
It's an online social experience by gaming so called MMORPG, see it like this and only this and your gaming experience will be much better. It's a game, play it and let no one tell you what your goals are or how you should play it. If you play with other people it's like all community activities, you have to follow some rules and adapt to the environment.
Hey, this applies also in RL !!! THat sucks right? -well asteroids or mario cart doesn't require you to play with others, you can do it YOUR way all down the road, just do it. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14645
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 12:41:00 -
[29] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Himnos Altar wrote:EglantinFinfleur wrote:The best MMOs would be complete sandboxes, with community managers permabanning players who only enjoy being a nuisance, and ruining immersion for others. That's NOT a sandbox. How isnt it It arbitrarily disallows gameplay that does not break the rules of the game.
GÇ£Multiplayer sandboxGÇ¥ doesn't mean you can do what you want GÇö it means everyone can do what they want, which will include doing stuff (to you) that you don't want them to do. Or, to use Malc's version: a sandbox doesn't mean you can succeed at everything you attempt GÇö it means you can attempt anything you wish to succeed at. Other people will stand in your way and you will have to solve that problem somehow. The sandbox provides you with the tools to do so.
Eglantin's rule would permaban everyone who stays docked rather than come out and fight, since they're being a nuisance and ruining the immersion of the campers outside wanting to fightGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
EglantinFinfleur
The Scope Gallente Federation
48
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 12:41:00 -
[30] - Quote
Off for the week-end, don't bother responding, I'll dig this thread up in a couple days so we can continue to unconsciously use different definitions for words and not communicate at all. |
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