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Yokomaki
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
9
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Posted - 2013.06.12 20:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
Our corp is still months from even fielding caps and months after that from fielding them effectively but better to plan far in advance. We like to fight (although we are mostly new) and we love wormholes. We don't want to POS up when a large fleet comes in town for a drink.
This is not a question about fighting wormhole invasions, it's about defense tactics against rage rolling.
Question 1, is there a best defense versus a rolling T3 with cap support fleet aside from the batphone? Question 2, would a slowcat fleet be effective against this type of gang?
These are really broad questions and have a million answers but I was wondering if anyone had any input on the subject. It seems when I read about cap fights there is only 1 or 2 triage archons and plenty of dreads along with a "few" bhaals and the rest T3s. It seems there is a pretty standard tactic to fighting this as a rage roller, bring in Bhaals and neut legions and neut the carriers and dps the dreads. Being outnumbered our best defense (since we are at home) would be to out tank the attacker and try to find a way to break their tank. This is my baseline assumption so if this is wrong I have a lot more learning to do.
For defense couldn't say 6 slowcats with 2 triage archons hold the field in a battle of attrition? A slowcats volley would be in the range of 2400, so 6 of these (we are a small corp) would be in the range of 28k. I suppose the alpha wouldn't be enough to pop T3s before reps landed as it would take roughly 24 seconds. (edit - I answered my own question but leaving it here for input or explanation)
It looks like I answered my own question and the reason slowcats work is because you have a massive number of them and enough to alpha a T3. So my next question is what can a small corp do to fight off a roaming gang? By small I mean only 6 caps (random small number). They have to work against mass limitations and we don't, that'd be our only advantage. I'm hesitant to use dreads because it seems they go into siege and if the dps on the field is more than their tank (and I assume a rolling pvp fleet would bring enough dps to break a sieged dreads tank) it's going to die.
Thanks for your input |
chris elliot
EG CORP Mass Overload
183
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Posted - 2013.06.12 20:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
Alpha
Kill the guardians first then take your time with the rest. Most people will just cry in local and leave if they are staring down enough alpha to kill their logistics or if they are too stupid to know how to catch and kill you(which is almost everyone who flies in T3 fleets).
Lots of ways to do this but nados with lachesis and huginns usually does the trick. If there are enough of you then sentry domes or gilas.
Manage your grid appropriately and you'll be fine.
Edit: After that idiot Ytterbium makes T3's easy to kill in a few months Alpha will be the only thing you will ever need to fly. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
273
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Posted - 2013.06.12 21:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
chris elliot wrote: Edit: After that idiot Ytterbium makes T3's easy to kill in a few months Alpha will be the only thing you will ever need to fly.
Thats a very good point - if they get their tanks significantly nerfed its going to be a sad day for WH combat - as it is I've noticed increasingly lately 3rd parties warping in at range to fights with 10-15 alpha fit Tier3s trying to pick stuff off, any real big downwards change to T3 tanks will make this a valid tactic to potentially completely kill typical t3 gangs dead in the water. |
Oxandrolone
Bite Me inc Bitten.
184
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Posted - 2013.06.13 18:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
Rroff wrote:chris elliot wrote: Edit: After that idiot Ytterbium makes T3's easy to kill in a few months Alpha will be the only thing you will ever need to fly.
Thats a very good point - if they get their tanks significantly nerfed its going to be a sad day for WH combat - as it is I've noticed increasingly lately 3rd parties warping in at range to fights with 10-15 alpha fit Tier3s trying to pick stuff off, any real big downwards change to T3 tanks will make this a valid tactic to potentially completely kill typical t3 gangs dead in the water.
I welcome this, armor T3's needed to be knocked of their perch at the top, they already nerfed all the 5% resist ship stats (including sub-systems) which is a good start! |
WInter Borne
Cold Station 12 Surely You're Joking
68
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Posted - 2013.06.13 18:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Oxandrolone wrote:Rroff wrote:chris elliot wrote: Edit: After that idiot Ytterbium makes T3's easy to kill in a few months Alpha will be the only thing you will ever need to fly.
Thats a very good point - if they get their tanks significantly nerfed its going to be a sad day for WH combat - as it is I've noticed increasingly lately 3rd parties warping in at range to fights with 10-15 alpha fit Tier3s trying to pick stuff off, any real big downwards change to T3 tanks will make this a valid tactic to potentially completely kill typical t3 gangs dead in the water. I welcome this, armor T3's needed to be knocked of their perch at the top, they already nerfed all the 5% resist ship stats (including sub-systems) which is a good start! I welcome the day when all wormhole fights devolve into t1 cruiser brawls. |
Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards Mass Overload
1325
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Posted - 2013.06.13 20:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
WInter Borne wrote:I welcome the day when all wormhole fights devolve into t1 cruiser brawls.
I, unironically, also agree. WH fights need to be more "fun" and less "leet." http://www.TalocanUnited.com |
Phaderift
Sky Fighters Mass Overload
28
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Posted - 2013.06.13 20:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
the problem of going to T1 cruisers are their ability to last. most of them pop rather quickly once numbers in fleets get up there. and getting podded in WH space can take a while to get back home. if they nerf t3s i would expect the heavy command ships to take their place for the simple mix of dps and survivability.
In K space .. quick fun .. t1 cruiser brawl is fine .. you get podded you show up back in station with your stock pile get another 1 and go out again to have fun. WH you get podded it could be a few hours till you can get back to your stuff and reship. I'm not complaining but the rational behind use of massive EHP heavy fleets in WH space is probably a product of their logistical restrictions. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
273
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Posted - 2013.06.13 21:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
I don't think many people came to w-space to fly around in t1 cruisers.
T3s could do with some adjustments but for the most part its t2 ships that hideously under-perform for what they are thats the real problem. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1441
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Posted - 2013.06.13 21:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Phaderift wrote:the problem of going to T1 cruisers are their ability to last. most of them pop rather quickly once numbers in fleets get up there. and getting podded in WH space can take a while to get back home. if they nerf t3s i would expect the heavy command ships to take their place for the simple mix of dps and survivability.
In K space .. quick fun .. t1 cruiser brawl is fine .. you get podded you show up back in station with your stock pile get another 1 and go out again to have fun. WH you get podded it could be a few hours till you can get back to your stuff and reship. I'm not complaining but the rational behind use of massive EHP heavy fleets in WH space is probably a product of their logistical restrictions.
My big issue, which I have said before, is the SP loss. Yea dying and having to spend hours to get back in is one thing. But as far as I am concerned, if there is going to be SP loss on death, T3's should have greater survivability. If they want to "nerf them into the ground" fine, but remove SP loss as well. Bling I can afford. Having to retrain a skill over and over for the priviledge of flying a T3 I can do without.
And yes it is only a Rank 1 skill but it adds up. It is also the only ship in the game that has such a penalty. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
273
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Posted - 2013.06.13 21:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:
My big issue, which I have said before, is the SP loss. Yea dying and having to spend hours to get back in is one thing. But as far as I am concerned, if there is going to be SP loss on death, T3's should have greater survivability. If they want to "nerf them into the ground" fine, but remove SP loss as well. Bling I can afford. Having to retrain a skill over and over for the priviledge of flying a T3 I can do without.
And yes it is only a Rank 1 skill but it adds up. It is also the only ship in the game that has such a penalty.
T3s also are still a fairly big target, no one gets half as interested about killing a drake as they do a T3, significantly nerfing their survivability will massively reduce the amount of people willing to fly something that is that sort of a target which isn't really a positive thing for the game. |
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chris elliot
EG CORP Mass Overload
184
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Posted - 2013.06.13 22:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
Given how CCP thinks, unless Hacs get a monstrous buff and there is just a role reversal between T2 and T3 that is minor, they will become what Black Ops ships are now. Stupidly expensive, terrible for anything other than that one niche thing, and damn near no one flies them.
T1 cruiser fights are fun. I wish more people flew them. Mostly because it's hard to have these terrible attitudes people sling around when you are in a Thorax. However, a handful of nados or oracles can volley one with both ease, and safety. And since Fozzie has already said he will not be buffing T2 logistics there will still be nothing you need to fly besides alpha once they nerf T3's. The command ships have nice tanks, but they are also fatter and slower, thus easier to track, and the Navy battlecruisers as well.
Even if Fozzie implements the mwd sig reduction idea he mentioned, without a huge buff to their tanks Hacs and likely T3's will be just as easy to alpha as they are now. |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
1998
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Posted - 2013.06.13 22:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
Living in a C1 |
unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc. Transmission Lost
38
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Posted - 2013.06.13 23:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
While t1 cruiser fight might be fun if the T3's will get nerfed no one will buy them anymore and we will lose all our income. And then try to atack a captial escaltion with only 15 dudes, no way you will have the DPS neuts or logi to break them when only using subcaps. The only way would be to go blob like in 0.0 and everyone knows that blobs don't survive in w-space not one big alliance is still standing. And battleships are useless since you can't fit enough of them through a hole(bether get some caps in stead). Home advantage for caps would be ABSOLUTLY UNBREAKABLE ad alpha the king, no more tactics or clever scemes, only alpha... Beside everyone has it worng anyway, have you guys checked the T2 fitted version of T3's? They are hardly any bether then a hac.
The only adjustments that t3's subsytems need is to make all of them more viable. We need more tactical choices not less! |
chris elliot
EG CORP Mass Overload
184
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Posted - 2013.06.13 23:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
unimatrix0030 wrote:
The only adjustments that t3's subsytems need is to make all of them more viable. We need more tactical choices not less!
Me thinks Ytterbium is too stupid to know the difference. Or if he does, then he is terrible at dev posting because his language is not showing that he does.
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