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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris
1960
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Posted - 2013.06.12 20:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
The mineral composition of Null ores was changed to make them more valuable. Ideally I would think mining in Null would be better than high sec or low sec. If you go to the trouble to be there, either by stealth or by claiming space, you deserve the reward.
But looking at http://ore.cerlestes.de/index.html#site:ore and setting aside Mercoxit, the first 2 most valuable ores are low sec ores. In addition two of the null ores, Spodumain and Gniess, are still near the bottom.
Did CCP go far enough? Do these ores need more enrichment? http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Cap James Tkirk
Soldiers of Farscape Synthetic Systems
106
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Posted - 2013.06.12 20:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
this first change is a good step in the right direction it keeps everyone in need of the other for certain things so all playstyles are viable still
CCP is looking to create a mass exodus of HS players as it can hurt the finances eventually and keeping with the spirit of a sandbox i think they are going in the correct direction with the implemented changes
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Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
275
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Posted - 2013.06.12 21:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
Well, Zydrine is cheaper than Nocxium AFAIK. If Eve had a command economy, then that would be in need of fixing. But it doesn't, so the demand/supply curve for minerals reflects many variables, including what players build, what they fly, what they mine and what they lose.
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Airto TLA
Puppeteers of Doom
45
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Posted - 2013.06.12 22:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:The mineral composition of Null ores was changed to make them more valuable. Ideally I would think mining in Null would be better than high sec or low sec. If you go to the trouble to be there, either by stealth or by claiming space, you deserve the reward. But looking at http://ore.cerlestes.de/index.html#site:ore and setting aside Mercoxit, the first 2 most valuable ores are low sec ores. In addition two of the null ores, Spodumain and Gniess, are still near the bottom. Did CCP go far enough? Do these ores need more enrichment?
Actually lo sec should be the highest since it is easily yhe most difficult place to mine. HI sec and deep in a null blue zone are realativly safe, except under perfect situations mining in low sec is suicide. |
Dave Stark
3168
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Posted - 2013.06.12 22:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
the issue is the mineral market being ****** due to the recent mineral changes in battleships and the fact that they won't be profitable build for a while, just like most other ships rather than the ores.
and high sec ores are for the most part, at the bottom of that table, so it's fine. |
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
157
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Posted - 2013.06.12 22:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
Far too soon to know.
Stock piles and the market shake out are still in play.
I doubt we will see any real effect from the changes for another 2 months. |
Kor'el Izia
63
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Posted - 2013.06.13 00:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ireland VonVicious wrote:Far too soon to know.
Stock piles and the market shake out are still in play.
I doubt we will see any real effect from the changes for another 2 months. It's settled! OP, necro this thread in 2 months and we shall see! |
Q 5
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
59
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Posted - 2013.06.13 05:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
One sure way to kick up pricing for null minerals is to require more null minerals in building. And leave hi sec mineral requirements the same. |
Oxide Ammar
Aurora Security Transstellar Operations
6
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Posted - 2013.06.13 07:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
Cap James Tkirk wrote:CCP is looking to create a mass exodus of HS players as it can hurt the finances eventually and keeping with the spirit of a sandbox i think they are going in the correct direction with the implemented changes
You and CCP are dreaming. |
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
20
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Posted - 2013.06.13 08:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
Oxide Ammar wrote:Cap James Tkirk wrote:CCP is looking to create a mass exodus of HS players as it can hurt the finances eventually and keeping with the spirit of a sandbox i think they are going in the correct direction with the implemented changes
You and CCP are dreaming.
I believe Captain Kirk has omitted the word 'not' inbetween 'is' & 'looking' if you read the rest of the sentence. The nul-sec community has the power within the CSM to swing things in their favour due to good organisation & charismatic leadership. But CCP has to tread carefully as they obviously do not want people leaving in droves. If they seriously wanted more of the high sec community to move into nul-sec some kind of environmental effect or slightly safer area for small scale operations would have to be introduced. As it stands at the moment nul-sec is largely controlled by an increasingly smaller number of monopolies which will not be sustainable in the long term. Unless people like to be minions all their lives which is their choice. I don't fully understand what is happening with GSF & TEST atm. It reads like a scam but maybe there is unrest between those two camps. I shall have to speak to my friend. |
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Roseline Penshar
Illusory Superiority Kraken.
10
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Posted - 2013.06.13 09:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:The mineral composition of Null ores was changed to make them more valuable. Ideally I would think mining in Null would be better than high sec or low sec. If you go to the trouble to be there, either by stealth or by claiming space, you deserve the reward. But looking at http://ore.cerlestes.de/index.html#site:ore and setting aside Mercoxit, the first 2 most valuable ores are low sec ores. In addition two of the null ores, Spodumain and Gniess, are still near the bottom. Did CCP go far enough? Do these ores need more enrichment?
hmm i don't know what null are you now, but in the system i mine there's Hedbergite and Hemorphite. we have Veldspar, scordite, omber too. basically we have almost all sort of ore.
so your statement "Ideally I would think mining in Null would be better than high sec or low sec. If you go to the trouble to be there, either by stealth or by claiming space, you deserve the reward." is already done |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris
1962
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 14:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
Cap James Tkirk wrote:CCP is looking to create a mass exodus of HS players as it can hurt the finances eventually and keeping with the spirit of a sandbox i think they are going in the correct direction with the implemented changes
I think their goal is to make industry in null viable for those who wish to do it. Not to force anyone anywhere.
http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
694
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Posted - 2013.06.13 15:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
I say give it at least 6 months for the market to settle. There have been so many changes that have affected the market in different ways. I think the changes to ore compositions are a great step in the right direction. But considering they removed one of our main risk mitigation tools by moving grav sites over to anomalies it will be a while before we start to see any significant positive impact.
I have been speaking against this change for some time now, long before it went live. I have been told that freelance miners like myself represent such a small portion of ore income in the game that the effects this change has on us really do not mean anything in the bigger picture.
If it is a fact that 90% of the ores mined outside of high sec are either deep inside space controlled by large alliances and power blocks, or in W-space then what I ask is why? Why are high end ores not mined much outside these area's? There are massive area's of NPC null and even area's of SOV null controlled by smaller alliances where mining is just not done. Why does nobody mine there? It is simple, the risks are just to high for the income it generates. They were to high before Odyssey and are even higher now.
I was one of the few that did mine in these area's, I did so successfully, despite the high risk, I learned to use the tools available to mitigate that risk. I learned to rely on D-scan far more than local as there was almost always a few neutrals in system. But only the ones with a probe launcher could find me, and I could spot the probes and warp off before they got me, as long as I did not let my guard down. Sure I lost a few ships, when I was not paying attention, or someone was smart enough to scan the sites down before I got there. But I accepted that level of risk as I was able to make enough profit that when that happened it did not break me. It was mining in grav sites and using D-scan to watch for threats that allowed me to do this successfully.
Now with Odyssey and the change from grav sites to ore anomalies this activity is no longer possible. Now anyone gets a near instant warp in to the ore sites as soon as they jump into the system. If I have to hide in a POS every time I see a neutral I will not be spending enough time mining for it to be worthwhile. As a freelance miner this is game breaking for me.
How does increasing this level of risk in any way benefit the game? The deeper into SOV null you go the less impact this change has on the miners, but there is still no benefit. All this has done is give the large null sec alliances a monopoly on these high end ores. How does this improve the game? The large null sec alliances have enough power, they already control the game, they do not need help from CCP. CCP claims these big power house alliances, that can field Titan, and MOM fleets in staggering numbers go against the design of the game, yet they bend over backwards to support these game breaking power blocks, while kicking the little guy in the teeth. I just do not get how this is in any way an improvement.
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Cap James Tkirk
Soldiers of Farscape Synthetic Systems
106
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Posted - 2013.06.13 15:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:Oxide Ammar wrote:Cap James Tkirk wrote:CCP is looking to create a mass exodus of HS players as it can hurt the finances eventually and keeping with the spirit of a sandbox i think they are going in the correct direction with the implemented changes
You and CCP are dreaming. I believe Captain Kirk has omitted the word 'not' inbetween 'is' & 'looking' if you read the rest of the sentence. The nul-sec community has the power within the CSM to swing things in their favour due to good organisation & charismatic leadership. But CCP has to tread carefully as they obviously do not want people leaving in droves. If they seriously wanted more of the high sec community to move into nul-sec some kind of environmental effect or slightly safer area for small scale operations would have to be introduced. As it stands at the moment nul-sec is largely controlled by an increasingly smaller number of monopolies which will not be sustainable in the long term. Unless people like to be minions all their lives which is their choice. I don't fully understand what is happening with GSF & TEST atm. It reads like a scam but maybe there is unrest between those two camps. I shall have to speak to my friend.
correct the word not was suppose to be between i was at work so fast typing and typos abound |
Haulie Berry
1061
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 17:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
Quote:How does increasing this level of risk in any way benefit the game?
TBH pretty much anything that makes mining less of an AFK activity and/or increases the opportunity for explosions is good. |
4D5A
Perkone Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.06.13 21:02:00 -
[16] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:The mineral composition of Null ores was changed to make them more valuable. Ideally I would think mining in Null would be better than high sec or low sec. If you go to the trouble to be there, either by stealth or by claiming space, you deserve the reward. But looking at http://ore.cerlestes.de/index.html#site:ore and setting aside Mercoxit, the first 2 most valuable ores are low sec ores. In addition two of the null ores, Spodumain and Gniess, are still near the bottom. Did CCP go far enough? Do these ores need more enrichment?
Look at the site u lincked lad , is written NO odyssey changes to Ore been made Ur info is wrong! |
Haulie Berry
1070
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 15:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
4D5A wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:The mineral composition of Null ores was changed to make them more valuable. Ideally I would think mining in Null would be better than high sec or low sec. If you go to the trouble to be there, either by stealth or by claiming space, you deserve the reward. But looking at http://ore.cerlestes.de/index.html#site:ore and setting aside Mercoxit, the first 2 most valuable ores are low sec ores. In addition two of the null ores, Spodumain and Gniess, are still near the bottom. Did CCP go far enough? Do these ores need more enrichment? Dont trust those sites too much cos look at that one http://www.eve-calculator.com/mining/income_calculator/ore.html
What about it?
Quote:And why they calculated isk per 1 m3,
Because per m3 gives you an objective measure that is easily applied to any subjective yield quantity.
Quote:i did my own math a week ago and i get numbers like 80 mil per hour in 00 sec and 30 mil in HS for a lonely miner. Thats rough numbers but still i think its good.
Please show your work. I'm feeling a little under the weather, and nothing cheers me up like watching an S&I player attempt to do math. |
Revolution Rising
Norse'Storm Battle Group Circle-Of-Two
383
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 06:24:00 -
[18] - Quote
The problem with moving people from high-sec to low/0.0 is not just ore prices.
After watching CCP for years playing with the numbers ONLY, from the outside looking in, you'd think they were just plain stupid.
Moving a mining corp from high-sec to low-sec currently creates more work than any other corp. We're missing the TOOLS to do so. It has little to do with price and more to do with logistics and systems in place to make life in low-sec/0.0 worth the effort.
Taxation - There's STILL 10 YEARS ON no corp tax for mining. WTF?!?!?
There's STILL no way to automatically pay miners for their ore.
Contracts to sell to a corp cannot be done from a ******* POS CCP. Wake the **** up.
Seriously, who is going to choose to mine from a station in lowsec ?!?!?!? Why not just throw your ships away and save yourself some time ?
"We'll add more tritanium to ores, that will create some mass exodus from high-sec for sure!" Like I said, it's as if they were just plain stupid.
I honestly think there are so few people left that are even WILLING to mine in low-sec/0.0 that there are few people that even understand the exact situation that is created by moving there.
I know most of the corps/alliances I have been in, in 0.0 there are usually only about 1% of the alliance pop doing industry (unless they house one of those very large indy corps that usually have amazing www systems in place).
They are literally killing off these professions and then saying "oh those ideas aren't very popular, less than 1% of people like them". lol CSM7 Skype Leak
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space submarine
27
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Posted - 2013.06.15 14:48:00 -
[19] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:you deserve the reward.
I think they should be punished for moving to a 3rd world zone, just like they would be in real life. |
Tumahub
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
22
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Posted - 2013.06.15 17:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
space submarine wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:you deserve the reward.
I think they should be punished for moving to a 3rd world zone, just like they would be in real life.
Realism is exactly what we need. Since null is the third world, that clearly means empire is the first world.
So, anyone working in empire will obviously need to pay 30%-50% (depending on which empire) of their income as tax to CONCORD. Your corporation will also need to pay some percentage of income to them too. Also, concord will require regular "lobbying." If you fail to keep your local and inter-regional officials sated with that bribe money, then you will have your tax rate increased, ships impounded, or your corporate mining license will be revoked and you will have to start over.
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Lambert Simnel
PWLS Enterprises
14
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Posted - 2013.06.16 01:14:00 -
[21] - Quote
This is getting a little out of hand. I now have no idea where to place the tear bucket, between high sec miners rage quitting because the cannot mine afk for 25 hours a day or null sec miners who are suprised when their bank balances aren't doubled whenever they log on.
OP according to the latest data all high sec ores are in the bottom half of the table while those in low and null are at the top. I would say that is a good approximation of where they should be (although in my opinion mining in low is far more dangerous than any other space) given the number of randoms now searching for security tags. Even if they weren't you could still mine in high sec just as you probably did before. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
10151
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 10:08:00 -
[22] - Quote
They say the sign of a good compromise is that it leaves both sides feeling like they got the worst of it
1 Kings 12:11
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Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
278
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 11:10:00 -
[23] - Quote
But it is safe to mine in null than it is to mine in low sec, so I suppose it's working as intended . |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
10152
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 12:25:00 -
[24] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:But it is safe to mine in null than it is to mine in low sec, so I suppose it's working as intended .
People who say that always somehow neglect to mention that statistically speaking, null is approximately 14 times more dangerous than hi-sec, and that such safety as is obtained is done so at considerable effort and expense. That "safety" doesn't just happen by itself as it does in hi-sec.
1 Kings 12:11
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Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
278
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Posted - 2013.06.16 12:27:00 -
[25] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Victoria Sin wrote:But it is safe to mine in null than it is to mine in low sec, so I suppose it's working as intended . People who say that always somehow neglect to mention that statistically speaking, null is approximately 14 times more dangerous than hi-sec, and that such safety as is obtained is done so at considerable effort and expense. That "safety" doesn't just happen by itself as it does in hi-sec.
As someone who lives in low/null, I didn't think it needed mentioning.
Only problem with ores at the moment is the high relative price of nocx compared to zyd. This is more market forces than anything else I suppose. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris
1968
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 14:48:00 -
[26] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Victoria Sin wrote:But it is safe to mine in null than it is to mine in low sec, so I suppose it's working as intended . People who say that always somehow neglect to mention that statistically speaking, null is approximately 14 times more dangerous than hi-sec, and that such safety as is obtained is done so at considerable effort and expense. That "safety" doesn't just happen by itself as it does in hi-sec. Usually miners do not mine in the dangerous areas of null, but secured areas. The danger of null to a miner is one day you could log in, find your alliance disbanded, sov lost, and if you undock from your outpost you will not be able to re-dock. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
22
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Posted - 2013.06.17 13:19:00 -
[27] - Quote
Quote:i did my own math a week ago and i get numbers like 80 mil per hour in 00 sec and 30 mil in HS for a lonely miner. Thats rough numbers but still i think its good.
Please show your work. I'm feeling a little under the weather, and nothing cheers me up like watching an S&I player attempt to do math. [/quote]
I did the maths again on this the other day as some people were saying Omber was the best to mine in high sec atm. But they were in fact wrong on that assumption. I have no knowledge of nul sec mining income but a hulk with maximum Orca support mining Scordite in high sec will generate 29.4 million ISK per hour. That is based on selling pyerite for 12.96 p/u which is not difficult if you sell large quantities. Tritanium is fairly variable at the moment but you're looking to get between 5.06 & 5.12 p/u probably. |
Adunh Slavy
963
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Posted - 2013.06.17 14:04:00 -
[28] - Quote
Making refining arrays, low sec stations, null stations, etc give better yields, on par with high sec, would go a long way to making dangerous mining more viable.
A player that takes the extra risk and expense sets up a POS to get even more crappy yield ... how does this make sense?
The player that takes more risk and uses some NPC station finds that refining is horrible. How does that make sense?
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Revolution Rising
Norse'Storm Battle Group Circle-Of-Two
384
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Posted - 2013.06.17 21:03:00 -
[29] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote: Making refining arrays, low sec stations, null stations, etc give better yields, on par with high sec, would go a long way to making dangerous mining more viable.
A player that takes the extra risk and expense sets up a POS to get even more crappy yield ... how does this make sense?
The player that takes more risk and uses some NPC station finds that refining is horrible. How does that make sense?
As above + Refinery Array Taxation for mining corps at corp level please.
CSM7 Skype Leak
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