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Janes Shield
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.06.13 19:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
I recently upgraded from Destroyers to Cruisers and being fond of using drones, was looking into getting either a Vexor or an Arbitrator. The choice was not hard. Arbitrator is seriously inferior when compared to Vexor.
The reason I am writing here is that Arbitrator is such a lovely design, and it has some nice distinguishing features such as joint missile / turret bays. However, as-is I can see no reason why anyone would choose it over Vexor (except maybe the looks).
Let's look at the most significant imbalances between the two ships one thing at a time.
Fitting: Vexor has 800 power grid vs 575 on Arbitrator. This makes it very tough if not impossible to fit decent medium sized weapons on the Arby.
Arbitrator does have 325 CPU vs 300 on Vexor, but the impact is nothing compared to the seriously underwhelming power grid.
Capacitor: Arbitrator recharge rate is 490s Vexor recharge rate is 482.5s
Arbitrator cap size is 1375 Vexor cap size is 1450
Granted, the difference here is not that large, but it is in favor of the Vexor on both aspects.
Tank: This together with the lacking power grid is my main gripe when it comes to the imbalance between these two ships.
Arbitrator Structure HP: 1600 Vexor Structure HP: 2000
Arbitrator Armor HP: 1500 Vexor Armor HP: 2000
Arbitrator Shield HP: 1100 Vexor Shield HP: 1100
So all in all Vexor wins by quite a large margin. And what does it say in Arbitrator's description? "The Arbitrator is unusual for Amarr ships in that it's primarily a drone carrier. While it is not the best carrier around, it has superior armor that gives it greater durability than most ships in its class." When compared to all other Amarr cruisers it actually has the least amount of armor.
Please, giver Arbitrator some much needed love. I can't see how that would be difficult or unreasonable, considering that the qualities that differentiate it from other same level drone boats are already there.
With love, Janes |
TehCloud
Carnivore Company
55
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Posted - 2013.06.13 19:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
I agree, the Arbitrator really deserves a small buff. It's an interesting ship and I'd love to see more of those in space. My Condor costs less than that module! |
Omnathious Deninard
The Scope Gallente Federation
1163
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Posted - 2013.06.13 19:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
Apples to oranges. The arbitrator is a E-war ship the vexor is a combat ship. Ideas for Drone ImprovementTwitter Account-á @Omnathious |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
553
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Posted - 2013.06.13 20:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
True, the Arbitrator is almost there, but not quite:
It's s-l-o-w, but not particularly tanky, and while the usual tradeoff for slow-but-tanky is that is selectable range (lasers) or huge range (railguns, most missiles), the Arbitrator's neuts are entirely short-range, thus entirely defensive (especially in combination with its TDs, which will force attackers to come in close--possibly even under its lasers).
It wouldn't take very much to get all the pieces to click together nicely, though. I agree that a little more PG and a some more armor would turn it into a Venus fly-trap: The TDs lure you in close, and then the neuts suck you dry while the drones wear you down, and you flail against its brick tank. If you manage to escape, lasers or missiles and TDs again.
The trick is to keep that from being too nasty. A Vexor will probably want to close with an Arbitrator ASAP, and it should have a chance to chew down that tank with its superior DPS while batting off the neuts with a cap booster. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Leskit
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
21
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Posted - 2013.06.13 20:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
Compare the Arbitrator to the Celestis. The arbi is an e-war ship, with its bonus to tracking disruption. The vexor is a combat ship. e-war ships usually have less of everthing except cpu compared to a combat-oriented hull. |
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse Somethin Awfull Forums
422
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Posted - 2013.06.13 20:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Apples to oranges. The arbitrator is a E-war ship the vexor is a combat ship.
This really. The Arbi is a TD boat with some drones. Compare it to Celestis, not a Vex. R.I.P. Vile Rat |
Revolution Rising
Norse'Storm Battle Group Circle-Of-Two
383
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Posted - 2013.06.14 00:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
Got to agree with the others, as someone who flies the arbi - it's really quite good compared to many of the other ewar ships like the celestis.
The pilgrim on the other hand... would be a totally different story.
CSM7 Skype Leak
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Drake Doe
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
222
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Posted - 2013.06.14 04:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
I think the celestis and blackbird need to be brought to the bellicose's and arbitrator's combat level. "The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! *pops more corn*" ---Evernub-- |
Janes Shield
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.06.14 05:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
I think the strength of Arbitrator is the flexibility it has to function as EWAR or combat type vessel, but then again for those who see it mainly as an EWAR platform, this role is completely neglected in the ships description. It says Arbitrator is primarily a drone carrier. That's it. EWAR is not mentioned at all.
If you look at the combined shield + armor HP of the EWAR ships of all nations, all but Celestis have 2600 total HP. Celestis has 2500, so Arbitrator - once again - does not have "superior armor" or "greater durability" when compared even to other EWAR ships, even though this is what the ship description claims.
When it comes to EWAR abilities, it seems that both Blackbird and Celestis are more specialised on that particular aspect. Bellicose and Arbitrator seem to have less clear identity.
If you ignore my initial argument and comparison to Vexor, one way to look at Arbitrator would be to consider the bonuses it gets to drones. The EWAR role would be much clearer if there was a bonus to the abilities of EWAR drones, but right now the only benefit comes from increased drone hp. |
Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
334
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Posted - 2013.06.14 05:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
Description is old. The ship gets a TD bonus, this makes it clearly a disruption cruiser. That's all there is to it, really. The drone bonus is equal to Bellicose's missile bonus |
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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
341
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Posted - 2013.06.14 06:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
Give back the middle engine the arby used to have. Then it will be happy again. Other than that, it seems pretty alright to me.
Unless that engine was only on the Curse. |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
186
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Posted - 2013.06.14 07:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
Janes Shield wrote:Stuff. Basically what you want is for Amarr to have a combat level drone cruiser. You really don't need to be coy and jump thru these argumentative hoops, just be up front about it and ask for what you want.
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
236
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Posted - 2013.06.14 07:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
Pretty much what everyone else already said. Aside from sharing the drone bonus, they really aren't much alike.
Both are natural progressions of a frigate, however. Tristan -> Vexor. Crucifier ->Arbitrator.
If you think about it that way, it makes more sense. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Bastion Arzi
Militant Mermen LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
18
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Posted - 2013.06.14 11:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
+1 for an arbitrator buff |
Bakuhz
The Nightingales of Hades Holdings The Nightingales of Hades
31
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Posted - 2013.06.14 12:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
actually the arbitrator is not that bad comapred to the vexor
vexor may hold a bit more tank and DPS
but a well trained and skillfull pilot in a arbitrator will eat a vexor alive. it wont take long for a arbitrator to nuetralise a vexor to be honest wich will break the tank and the ability to fire guns. wich greatly forces to go full drones wich the vexor is not better then the arbitrator.
this cruiser is better in nuetralising thena vexor fitted with nuets to make an example plus a tracking disruptor bonus will allready hurt any gunship.
arbitator will win a brawl with a vexor for sure only way a vexor can be coming out on top is keep range to stay away from the nuets kiting with ranged ammo can give the vexor a control situation. sensor dampening might help in this case.
but brawl and you will lose the vexor in torment. both ships have advantages and weaknesses.
vexor relies on brute force, arbitrator relies on Electronic warfare. The fit and the range between the to upon landing on grid is what mainly will dictate the fight wich is almsot with every ship in eve but these 2 in particular are a interesting match.
i both fly these ships in PvP myself and i love them both. both good ships http://tnoh.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=576554
We are stil looking for Manticore Pilot's can you fly one and are interested to do more with covert operations Contact me for more info |
Qestroy
Bio-Tech Research Tribal Band
4
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Posted - 2013.06.14 12:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
+1 arby buff |
Vaihto Ehto
18
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Posted - 2013.06.14 13:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
The reason to use an Arbitrator:
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I Why would you not use an alt to post on the forums? |
AyayaPanda
15 Minute Outliers Novus Dominatum
25
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Posted - 2013.06.14 16:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
Well if you feel tight PG on Arby, you might consider fitting missiles? |
Alara IonStorm
5108
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Posted - 2013.06.14 16:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
Janes Shield wrote:It says Arbitrator is primarily a drone carrier. That's it. EWAR is not mentioned at all.
CCP says it is a disruption Cruiser.
With a 3 TD fit it can cut the tracking of 3 Battleships in more then half or cancels out 3 gun kiters. A single TD drops a 425 Cane with 2 TE's and Barrage to 6 Kilometers. Next up for it she will be affecting missiles with TD's. The Vexor can have its bit more damage and skimpy slice of extra tank, it needs it.
People who say buff the Arby, I say you have an already awesome EWAR platform on its own and then they put a f**kin Drone Boat on top of it.
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Ersahi Kir
Infinite Mobility SpaceMonkey's Alliance
187
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Posted - 2013.06.14 16:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
The arbitrator can be an extremely powerful ship if, especially in a gang or fleet. I wouldn't cry if it had a little more fitting room, but it's really a solid boat for what it's designed to do. |
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Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
717
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Posted - 2013.06.14 16:54:00 -
[21] - Quote
I don't think you realize just how OP that TD bonus is. I think there is a rule against linking killmails but it illustrates my point: http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=18302185 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=18302186 Killed those two at the same time.
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=18307381 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=18308447
The TD bonus gives the arbitrator supreme versatility in multiple ranges and can effectively make it immune to damage.
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=18310216 my fit for the curious. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
717
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 16:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
Drake Doe wrote:I think the celestis and blackbird need to be brought to the bellicose's and arbitrator's combat level. The celestis can be a combat cruiser if you you really want it to. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
711
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Posted - 2013.06.14 21:16:00 -
[23] - Quote
It is fixed when eWar is fixed.
It's apparent mediocrity stems from the fact that the great equalizer it was supposed to have to make up for its middling stats, can be used almost as effectively on any hull in Eve .. if/when all eWar gets the same type of overhaul that ECM had all those years ago, giving preferential treatment to the dedicated boats, all the various platforms get a hefty buff .. especially the Arbitrator. |
Drake Doe
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
225
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Posted - 2013.06.15 00:10:00 -
[24] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:Drake Doe wrote:I think the celestis and blackbird need to be brought to the bellicose's and arbitrator's combat level. The celestis can be a combat cruiser if you you really want it to. I mean with an actual combat bonus. "The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! *pops more corn*" ---Evernub-- |
To mare
Advanced Technology
197
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Posted - 2013.06.15 00:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
Vexor is a combat ship Arbitrator is a EWAR ship |
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
717
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Posted - 2013.06.15 00:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
Drake Doe wrote: I mean with an actual combat bonus.
Gallente Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret Damage and Remote Sensor Dampener effectiveness per skill level.
It has a bonused weapon, and a powerful form of ewar at its disposal that can let the ship kite without even being targeted.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Drake Doe
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
225
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Posted - 2013.06.15 00:57:00 -
[27] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:Drake Doe wrote: I mean with an actual combat bonus.
Gallente Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret Damage and Remote Sensor Dampener effectiveness per skill level. It has a bonused weapon, and a powerful form of ewar at its disposal that can let the ship kite without even being targeted. What about Rof, since it has a relative low amount of high slots? "The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! *pops more corn*" ---Evernub-- |
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
717
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 01:11:00 -
[28] - Quote
Drake Doe wrote: What about Rof, since it has a relative low amount of high slots?
How about stop yer bitching and be happy with not being targeted? It has a combat bonus and it doesn't need to do good dps. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
245
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Posted - 2013.06.15 01:38:00 -
[29] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:Drake Doe wrote: What about Rof, since it has a relative low amount of high slots?
How about stop yer bitching and be happy with not being targeted? It has a combat bonus and it doesn't need to do good dps.
Especially when it can easily lock someone down.
Really, the Blackbird is the only EWAR cruiser that can't really apply proper dps. And it has other benefits to it's hull bonuses. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Drake Doe
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
225
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Posted - 2013.06.15 02:15:00 -
[30] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:Drake Doe wrote: What about Rof, since it has a relative low amount of high slots?
How about stop yer bitching and be happy with not being targeted? It has a combat bonus and it doesn't need to do good dps. It's to bring it in line with the other semi combat disruption cruisers, since the caracal shares it's damage bonus with the bellicose and the vexor has the same drone bonus as the arbitrator with the same bandwidth and hardpoint number. "The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! *pops more corn*" ---Evernub-- |
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