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Halada
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Posted - 2005.11.15 15:47:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Halada on 15/11/2005 15:49:18 So the other day I'm asking in local about how much more an Apocalypse can mine than an Osprey. Because I know for a fact an Apocalypse will take me a week of dedicated training before I can even fly it,I want to make sure the mining output is worth it...
So here we go. The Osprey with 3 miners II at Cruiser IV gives 60ore/s with a 80% bonus which means 180/s * 1.80 = 324. The Apocalypse has 8 turrets which means 60*8 = 480 ore/s ... according to me, the apocalypse gives a wooping extra 156ore/sec. But then somebody told me my calculations were totally wrong and that the osprey was still better.
How did I calculate this wrong ??? Should I forget the Apocalypse and go directly to a mining barge???
On the other side, the Osprey at Cruiser V is like having 6 miners II, and would be much, much cheaper to replace if lost. But getting cruiser V will probably take a ****load of time... maybe as long as training for the apocalypse, but then I don't have a powerful ship to fight with :)
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Golden Helmet
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Posted - 2005.11.15 15:59:00 -
[2]
w\ asterology 3, if i remember my numbers right, an apoc with 8 miner 2's will mine 662.4 ore units per cycle (adding up all the lasers). an osprey w\ the same skills but cruiser 4 mines 449.7 ore units per cycle. so an Apoc out-mines the Osprey. also, cruiser 5 takes more time than it does to get the skills for an apoc. but it's one step closer to a HAC for the future :)
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Halada
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Posted - 2005.11.15 16:01:00 -
[3]
Thanks for the quick and yet efficient response :)
HAC??????
I was thinking of training for a mining barge instead and training for a Raven, instead of going all the way to Ammar only for a better mining ship. A covetor will most probably outmine an apoc...
I was looking at the modulated strip miner II that has a 360ore/s extraction rate, and then in the attribute list it says 360 for speciality crystal... is that 360*2 ???
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Golden Helmet
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Posted - 2005.11.15 16:14:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Golden Helmet on 15/11/2005 16:14:57 I'm not entirely sure, i don't fly a Covetor or use modulated strip miner 2's (best barge i can fly is a Procurer). a Covetor will out-mine an Apoc anyday though, but the apoc makes a better low-sec mining ship (barges pop easily, battleships don't ). a Covetor takes a load of training time though, but from most covetor pilots i've talked to, it's worth it :)
EDIT: oh, and HAC = Heavy Assault Cruiser, though technicaly classed as Heavy Assault Ships.
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Bradstone
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Posted - 2005.11.15 16:17:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Bradstone on 15/11/2005 16:20:19 I have used the apoc for mining be4. It was very lucrative especially if you have 7 cargo extenders*. Have some drones to protect you if your going to 0.5 space with it.
The apoc is a useful ship to mine with for the short term... i would recommend getting the skills for a mining barge, although they are much weaker and slower the ore collection rate with the 'strip miner 1' is simply staggering, i could get 6,666 units of ore in one trip, an amount the apoc can not dream of reaching (unless with extremely expensive cargo extenders)
The amount of ore you can collect per cycle IS increased by the amount shown i.e. 600 normal + 600 with crystal. However crystals take a large amount of skill training time.
Hope this helps
*With 7 extenders it will be very very very slow! maybe have a 100mn afterburner
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.11.15 16:41:00 -
[6]
The osprey with cruiser 5 is equal to 6 miner 2s. The apoc does up to 8 miner 2s. - Proud member of the [23].
Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
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Cypher Echo
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Posted - 2005.11.15 17:04:00 -
[7]
I agree with Bradstone, a mining barge is better to train towards than an Apoc if you are intent on mining. The mining barge will definitly yield more ore at the cost of secruity and speed. If you intend to do alot of solo mining an Apoc will definitly keep the rats off your back. ^^
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GC13
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Posted - 2005.11.15 19:03:00 -
[8]
As has already been pointed out, the Apoc's lasers at any level will mine at 133.34% the speed of an Osprey's if you have Caldari Cruiser to level five. Your bonus from Mining and Astrogeology is multiplied into there, so an initial difference of 120 m^3 every minute can be easily go above 180. And THEN there's the fact that the Apoc is so much more survivable in 0.0 due to its vastly superior tanking abilities.
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Halada
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Posted - 2005.11.15 21:07:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Halada on 15/11/2005 21:06:53 Isn't it more worth to train toward a Retriver and then Covetor ? With Stripminers it must beat the Apocalypse, and much cheaper too :)
I guess I'll go Retriever instead, since atm we mostly do mining op in 0.5-0.6 sectors and anything under we're escorted by BS and BC...
Anyway, what do you think of this (learning path): Cruiser III Astrogeology III Afterburner IV Naviguation IV HS Maneuvring I Drones III Scout Drones OP I Cruiser IV Astrogeology IV
and then on my way to retriever.
What you guys think?
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Gabby05
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Posted - 2005.11.16 06:36:00 -
[10]
Would help you more if you trained up Drone Interfacing and heavy drone skill, Covetor has 100m3 drone space (i think) meaning your be able to solo any belt above 0.4.
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Ruad
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Posted - 2005.11.16 14:12:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Ruad on 16/11/2005 14:13:20 One one advantage of apoc would be morphite mining( modulated strip miners can't mine it but morphite ore is only in like 0.0 space). Other then that covertor can out mine a apoc any day of the week, and can mine ice (which some is in high security space).
So unless you plan on hitting low security space with it, my suggestion stick with getting covertor after you are done with training up an osprey(like four in cruiser skill would be good enough), then after getting the covertor get an apoc for when you want to mine in low security space.
Anythign smaller then Covertor mining barge isnt worth it imo, a megathron can out mine it.
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BoinKlasik
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Posted - 2005.11.16 14:46:00 -
[12]
also, i havent done the exact calculations for miner iis and strip miners. but I know modulated strip miner II's = strip miner iis in terms of slots. apoc + 8 modulated strip miner iis = 3 strip miner iis on a barge BUT BUT BUT!!!! the barge gets a 15% bonus over the apoc in this case because of the skill increase in this area.
mining speed for apoc = 240 *1.25 (mining 5) *1.25 (astrogeo 5) *(mining crystal bonus)
mining speed for covetor = (errr...the item database here appears to be wrong. Ill check the stats when i get in game again but I was damn sure about these numbers before, using the numbers online gives u a mining speed of 720 per 3 minutes instead of 640 AND it screws up the ratio between the modulated deep core II's) 640 *1.25*1.25*1.15 (mining barge 5) *(mining crystal bonus)
now...if the numbers ingame are what i think they are, the ratio between a modulated stripper and a modulated deep core miner is 8/3. But, in the end that 15% would make it win anyway.
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Hans Petterqvist
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Posted - 2005.11.16 15:53:00 -
[13]
The Covetor outmines Apocalypse easy as said. Even with "only" stripminers I (three of them).
Another point to the discussion is that about 8 majners (II) on the Apo. Unless skills high enough there is a CPU problem ...
But I agree to the simple "formula" if majning solo: Covetor in high secure - Apo in low secure
If have some friends protecting the Covetor in low sec, then always Covetor.
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