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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15048
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Posted - 2013.06.20 19:34:00 -
[301] - Quote
Yoink. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Kijo Rikki
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Predictables
353
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Posted - 2013.06.20 19:38:00 -
[302] - Quote
You know it just dawned on me what the solution is. Players will just throw an MWD on a fast interceptor and burn up from a safe. Now he can be afk, not worry about fuel concerns, knowing no one can scan him and catch him, and can still warp down to a belt and tackle and cyno in support when he gets back from being afk.
A solution has already been made for your solution. |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
296
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Posted - 2013.06.20 19:41:00 -
[303] - Quote
Tippia wrote:GǪexcept that if they do, their fuel runs out, so they can't. So, the question remains: why shouldn't they be able to?
So, they add that into the calculation as to the benefits or otherwise of whatever it is they aren't doing.
Quote:GǪwhich you can do in stations as well, so obviously the same rule should apply.
Sure, you can do that in station, but when you're in station people know exactly where you are and it's easy to see when you've undocked. This doesn't apply to AFK cloaked in space, does it?
Quote: Oh, and GÇ£intentionalityGÇÖ? How do you propose to measure that mechanically?
You don't "measure intentionality". Same rules for everyone. Want to park your Orca at a safe and cloak it? You're going to consume fuel. Want to park it safely at a POS? Guess what? The POS is burning fuel. See how it works?
Quote: Cloaking already has a cost: it either massively nerfs your ship, or it restricts you to a very weak ship, and either way, it doesn't let you do anything while cloaked. The cost is built into the module.
That's true on an absolute scale, but your cloaked Loki is still vastly more powerful than my Mackinaw.
Quote: Oh, and the actual problem and the value of the proposed solution is still left unexplained.
I think you're being a bit silly here, pretending not to see any potential problem with an AFK cloaking. I know you're not stupid, so I don't think an explanation is really necessary. Please refer to my post on intentionality.
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Kijo Rikki
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Predictables
353
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Posted - 2013.06.20 19:44:00 -
[304] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote: I think you're being a bit silly here, pretending not to see any potential problem with an AFK cloaker. I know you're not stupid, so I don't think an explanation is really necessary. Please refer to my post on intentionality.
It's a bit silly to contend that there is a problem when many of us have told you the solutions already. I can do your job in a mack without fear because I know what to do. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15049
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Posted - 2013.06.20 19:49:00 -
[305] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:So, they add that into the calculation as to the benefits or otherwise of whatever it is they aren't doing. Yeah, that doesn't answer the question: why shouldn't they be able to go AFK for extended periods?
Quote:Sure, you can do that in station Good. So it's agreed then: the same fuel mechanic applies so that they get spat out and exposed and the poor beleaguered bastard can come and kill him. After all, there's no telling where he was hiding (since it's null GÇö it's not like you can just dock and check the guest list).
Quote:You don't "measure intentionality". Same rules for everyone. Then we can strike the GÇ£element of intentionalityGÇ¥ and it truly only becomes an issue of going AFK. So, again: auto-kick from stations and POSes and the like.
Quote:That's true on an absolute scale, but your cloaked Loki is still vastly more powerful than my Mackinaw. GǪand your Mackinaw is vastly better at mining. So what? It still doesn't change the fact that cloaks have the kind of costs you're talking about built-in.
Quote:I think you're being a bit silly here, pretending not to see any potential problem with an AFK cloaking. What's the problem? By very definition, he can't do anything. He has no power, no control, no input, nothing. He can't attack people, he can't collect intel, he can't call in reinforcements, he can GÇö at best GÇö enjoy a spot of tea in the sunGǪ well, not actually the AFK cloaker, but the player.
So what's the problem?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
2245
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 19:50:00 -
[306] - Quote
Kijo Rikki wrote:Victoria Sin wrote: I think you're being a bit silly here, pretending not to see any potential problem with an AFK cloaker. I know you're not stupid, so I don't think an explanation is really necessary. Please refer to my post on intentionality.
It's a bit silly to contend that there is a problem when many of us have told you the solutions already. I can do your job in a mack without fear because I know what to do.
Exactly. There is a difference between "there is nothing you can do" and "I can't be arsed to protect myself, CCP please do it for me".
I don't actualy care if someone AFK plays or now, damn near every hauler you see in empire is afk isk making. Should autopilot use fuel too?
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Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
296
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Posted - 2013.06.20 19:56:00 -
[307] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: Exactly. There is a difference between "there is nothing you can do" and "I can't be arsed to protect myself, CCP please do it for me".
Somewhat bemusing that you find this legitimate game-play. It wasn't as if you were all making forum threads to call for an AFK cloaking facility so you could troll local before the cloak was introduced into the game.
Jenn aSide wrote: I don't actualy care if someone AFK plays or now, damn near every hauler you see in empire is afk isk making. Should autopilot use fuel too?
In what respect does using autopilot disrupt someone else's game-play? |
Kijo Rikki
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Predictables
355
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Posted - 2013.06.20 20:01:00 -
[308] - Quote
I feel like helping the less fortunate.
NEVER NOT ALIGNED TO SOMETHING
If that's not security enough perhaps it's worth noting this is what I did in hi-sec mining on my other character, Ituhata. Hi sec is considerably more difficult, you know why? Because with all the random people in local your intelligence is considerably degraded. You have to stay on d-scan and watch for the catalyst gank and learn who to watch for in a local of anyhere from 30 to hundreds of players.
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Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
296
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Posted - 2013.06.20 20:03:00 -
[309] - Quote
Kijo Rikki wrote:I feel like helping the less fortunate. NEVER NOT ALIGNED TO SOMETHINGIf that's not security enough perhaps it's worth noting this is what I did in hi-sec mining on my other character, Ituhata. Hi sec is considerably more difficult, you know why? Because with all the random people in local your intelligence is considerably degraded. You have to stay on d-scan and watch for the catalyst gank and learn who to watch for in a local of anyhere from 30 to hundreds of players.
Yes, you do. But a player pays a cost in high sec when he ganks you: His sec gets a hit (OK, it's a throw-away alt, ignore that) and Concord ganks him.
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Kijo Rikki
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Predictables
355
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Posted - 2013.06.20 20:08:00 -
[310] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Kijo Rikki wrote:I feel like helping the less fortunate. NEVER NOT ALIGNED TO SOMETHINGIf that's not security enough perhaps it's worth noting this is what I did in hi-sec mining on my other character, Ituhata. Hi sec is considerably more difficult, you know why? Because with all the random people in local your intelligence is considerably degraded. You have to stay on d-scan and watch for the catalyst gank and learn who to watch for in a local of anyhere from 30 to hundreds of players. Yes, you do. But a player pays a cost in high sec when he ganks you: His sec gets a hit (OK, it's a throw-away alt, ignore that) and Concord ganks him.
Which is irrelevant because they only need to kill a Hulk to succeed then loot the field and financially it pays off, or again, it's done for the lulz.
The point is there is a solution to dealing with an afk cloak, if that's not enough put stabs, keep a flight of ecm drones or maybe try your luck with an ecm burst module. This is all stuff you can do on your own, let alone if you had friends. But lets not forget an afk cloak by definition is harmless, and once you make the determination that someone is definitely not letting their eyes bleed by not having fun staring at space in a cloaked and powerless ship for hours and that they left the keyboard and are hoping to scare you, then don't. This is psychological warfare aimed at hurting an opponents economy. It's only effective if you let it be effective. |
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Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
296
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Posted - 2013.06.20 20:13:00 -
[311] - Quote
Kijo Rikki wrote: This is psychological warfare aimed at hurting an opponents economy. It's only effective if you let it be effective.
Well, that's the point all of you AFK cloaking fans are missing, it's AFK psychological warfare. There's no cost to you whatsoever. There is a psychological cost to the people you're trolling.
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3713
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Posted - 2013.06.20 20:14:00 -
[312] - Quote
Kijo Rikki wrote:The point is there is a solution to dealing with an afk cloak, if that's not enough put stabs, keep a flight of ecm drones or maybe try your luck with an ecm burst module. This is all stuff you can do on your own, let alone if you had friends. But lets not forget an afk cloak by definition is harmless, and once you make the determination that someone is definitely not letting their eyes bleed by not having fun staring at space in a cloaked and powerless ship for hours and that they left the keyboard and are hoping to scare you, then don't. This is psychological warfare aimed at hurting an opponents economy. It's only effective if you let it be effective. Please tell the TEST ratters this. They seem to not like the afk cloaked Blackops covert ops ships.
They should start grinding isk for ships since they get blown up every now and then and the reimb--- There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
TEST Defence, Please Ignore |
Kijo Rikki
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Predictables
355
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 20:16:00 -
[313] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Kijo Rikki wrote: This is psychological warfare aimed at hurting an opponents economy. It's only effective if you let it be effective.
Well, that's the point all of you AFK cloaking fans are missing, it's AFK psychological warfare. There's no cost to you whatsoever. There is a psychological cost to the people you're trolling.
But I am trying to teach you to not be afraid of it. Once you learn this, it becomes a complete non-issue and you can even chuckle in the knowledge that someone is wasting 15$ a month on a character that is not doing anything to slow you down.
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Kijo Rikki
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Predictables
355
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Posted - 2013.06.20 20:20:00 -
[314] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote: Please tell the TEST ratters this. They seem to not like the afk cloaked Blackops covert ops ships.
They should start grinding isk for ships since they get blown up every now and then and the reimb---
I heard Durrhurrdurr on comms last night. It was at that moment I realized you don't tell that man anything, you just listen and laugh your ass off.
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Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
296
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Posted - 2013.06.20 20:22:00 -
[315] - Quote
Kijo Rikki wrote:But I am trying to teach you to not be afraid of it. Once you learn this, it becomes a complete non-issue and you can even chuckle in the knowledge that someone is wasting 15$ a month on a character that is not doing anything to slow you down.
Sure. But for me that isn't the point. It's just poor game design.
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Kijo Rikki
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Predictables
355
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 20:27:00 -
[316] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Kijo Rikki wrote:But I am trying to teach you to not be afraid of it. Once you learn this, it becomes a complete non-issue and you can even chuckle in the knowledge that someone is wasting 15$ a month on a character that is not doing anything to slow you down. Sure. But for me that isn't the point. It's just poor game design.
Maybe, but instant local intel was even moreso. But that's why the playerbase came up with afk cloaking as a mechanic to counter it, so that you can't be 100% sure it's safe to go out. It's not perfect, because after a while people should start to realize you are afk, so you surprise them every once in a while. Still, nothing they can do can hurt you if you are prepared to deal with it. |
E-2C Hawkeye
State War Academy Caldari State
222
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Posted - 2013.06.20 20:57:00 -
[317] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Tippia wrote:GǪexcept that if they do, their fuel runs out, so they can't. So, the question remains: why shouldn't they be able to? Quote: Oh, and the actual problem and the value of the proposed solution is still left unexplained.
I think you're being a bit silly here, pretending not to see any potential problem with an AFK cloaker. I know you're not stupid, so I don't think an explanation is really necessary. Please refer to my post on intentionality.
And here you have the SOP or the modus operandi. Same format over and over for every thread. They are not able to acknowledge there is a issue at this point because then it would make them look even more ignorant for all the previous bad posting. |
Kijo Rikki
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Predictables
355
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 20:59:00 -
[318] - Quote
E-2C Hawkeye wrote: And here you the SOP or the modus operandi. Same format over and over for every thread. They are not able to acknowledge there is a issue at this point because then it would make them look even more ignorant for all the previous bad posting.
Where is the issue, other than the one where you refuse to take the tools readily available to you to make what you think is an issue and turn it into a non-issue, and instead want someone else to hardcode a solution that makes you perfectly safe from the influence of other players.
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Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
2557
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Posted - 2013.06.20 21:05:00 -
[319] - Quote
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:Victoria Sin wrote:Tippia wrote:GǪexcept that if they do, their fuel runs out, so they can't. So, the question remains: why shouldn't they be able to? Quote: Oh, and the actual problem and the value of the proposed solution is still left unexplained.
I think you're being a bit silly here, pretending not to see any potential problem with an AFK cloaker. I know you're not stupid, so I don't think an explanation is really necessary. Please refer to my post on intentionality. And here you have the SOP or the modus operandi. Same format over and over for every thread. They are not able to acknowledge there is a issue at this point because then it would make them look even more ignorant for all the previous bad posting.
So what exactly is the problem that needs to be fixed other than you don't feel safe? Until you post an actual problem that needs fixing other players are just going to continue to ridicule you and ask the same question.
Maybe you should ask your landlord to do something.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Sub Tzero
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.06.20 21:44:00 -
[320] - Quote
All the time
"Highsec dwellers are risk averse carebears"
but then
"OMG, there is that one tiny little uncertainty left, that makes me feel uncomfortable in my gated nullsec community - CCP TO THE RESCUE! CHANGE TEH GAME! NERF IT! FIX IT! ZOMG! WOULD ANYONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!" |
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Dorion Strag
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2013.06.20 21:45:00 -
[321] - Quote
ITT |
PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
134
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Posted - 2013.06.20 22:28:00 -
[322] - Quote
Remove cloaked ships from local.
Also, you should never feel safe in eve.
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WhipDiddyWhip
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2013.06.20 23:01:00 -
[323] - Quote
like i said before im new to eve, but this thread just sounds to me that ppl want to know exactly where everyone is all the time
where's the fun in that? stealth is a complete waste of time
the directional scanner can be used almost as good as local or is pressing that scan button just too much effort for ppl? |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
285
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Posted - 2013.06.20 23:55:00 -
[324] - Quote
Quote:Well, that's the point all of you AFK cloaking fans are missing, it's AFK psychological warfare. There's no cost to you whatsoever. There is a psychological cost to the people you're trolling.
But then we have this:
Quote:In what respect does using autopilot disrupt someone else's game-play?
In what respect does psyops warfare disrupt your gameplay? Aside from the ways that you allow it to effect you.
That's the thing. They do that hoping for the reaction you seem willing to give them. Adjut your gameplay a bit, and they are pretty well harmless. Numerous people have told you how to deal with it.
But you don't want to deal with it. You would like CCP to simply wave the magic wand and make them go away, that's why you don't listen.
You would rather that CCP adjust the behavior of tons of other people, than change anything about how you play. That is called selfishness. So I think it would be fair to make the analogy that when given a sandbox, you chose to stick your head in the sand. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5615
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 08:29:00 -
[325] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Remove cloaked ships from local. No, for obvious reasons. I swear, probably a nontrivial amount of my posts on this forum have to do with explaining why this idea alone is terrible. -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
299
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Posted - 2013.06.21 08:39:00 -
[326] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: In what respect does psyops warfare disrupt your gameplay?
You're calling it "psyops warfare" in an effort to give it legitimacy, when really what you mean is "trolling local". |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
289
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Posted - 2013.06.21 08:49:00 -
[327] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote: In what respect does psyops warfare disrupt your gameplay?
You're calling it "psyops warfare" in an effort to give it legitimacy, when really what you mean is "trolling local".
So? Who cares? Why are you allowing it to have such an effect on your gameplay? Why are you seeking a dev solution to a player created problem?
It's because you don't want anything but the lazy way. In that case, it's not a real problem at all, it's just you not wanting to face up to a game mechanic you don't like. No different from people who mine all day and gripe if someone pops them, because they're not playing EVE, they are playing a small portion of EVE, and doing their best to ignore the rest. '
Pathetic. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
76
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Posted - 2013.06.21 08:58:00 -
[328] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh and Jenn aSide have explained why removing local in existing space 0.0 is not a good idea, these reasons have been explained on multiple other threads.
Others have suggested that the better way would be to create a new super region which is connected to a gate three jumps into low low sec, this leads to a region which is too far for cyno jumps to reach it. The region will have no local and no details supplied to the API and no ingame map details. Then see how that develops, because you cannot bring existing fleets in it means people will need to bring in or gather materials in that region to make capital fleets, furthermore people cannot use existing capital fleets to dominate. Cyno's of course work within that region and then you can have this whole region to play with without local, at which point we will see no more of these stupid threads If you do not want LOCAL go to WH space, its as simple as that!-á-á-á-á-á-á-á There are people who think that WH space is like 0.0 but without local, well they should light a cyno and try jumping to it. |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
1408
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 09:13:00 -
[329] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote: In what respect does psyops warfare disrupt your gameplay?
You're calling it "psyops warfare" in an effort to give it legitimacy, when really what you mean is "trolling local".
You call it "trolling" in an effort to smear and discredit, when really what you mean is "someone is playing in a way that I don't want them to"
hope this helps m8 |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
299
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Posted - 2013.06.21 09:44:00 -
[330] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Victoria Sin wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote: In what respect does psyops warfare disrupt your gameplay?
You're calling it "psyops warfare" in an effort to give it legitimacy, when really what you mean is "trolling local". You call it "trolling" in an effort to smear and discredit, when really what you mean is "someone is playing in a way that I don't want them to" hope this helps m8
OK, let me put it another way: If you were designing a brand new game, call it Evelyn 2020 and you introduced a cloaking mechanism, would you or would you not also introduce a counter mechanism? If you say you wouldn't, then I would simply ask you to not tie yourself in knots arguing your point just for the e-peen; I won't think any less of you.
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