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Kaell Meynn	Posted - 2005.11.29 06:55:00 - [31] Dude, take a chill pill or somethin. The makers of the software WANT YOU TO USE IT, that's why they provide it for you to use. He is using it, the only one doing something wrong here is you, looking for something to complain about where no valid reason exists. As for the announcement, it's cool and all, but I personally would make a new announcement once there is a decent amount of content there already. The trick to getting a wiki running is to already have content (yes, I know kinda a catch 22, but it generally means 1 or a few people have to do a TON of initial work fillilng content in order to get others to contribute).
Kaell Meynn Divergence	Posted - 2005.11.29 06:55:00 - [32] Dude, take a chill pill or somethin. The makers of the software WANT YOU TO USE IT, that's why they provide it for you to use. He is using it, the only one doing something wrong here is you, looking for something to complain about where no valid reason exists. As for the announcement, it's cool and all, but I personally would make a new announcement once there is a decent amount of content there already. The trick to getting a wiki running is to already have content (yes, I know kinda a catch 22, but it generally means 1 or a few people have to do a TON of initial work fillilng content in order to get others to contribute).
Ferrer	Posted - 2005.11.29 17:28:00 - [33] Whoa! Hold your flaming wrath in check one second and consider a few things. 1. A wiki is incredibly complicated, starting one from scratch is not within the scope of a layman (myself). 2. Seeing this difficulty, the geniusi of the world convened in secret and developed an installation package that would revolutionize the internet. 3. This package is meant to be distributed for the purposes of users creating their own wiki. All intellectual property contained in said package is protected by the GNU General Public License which states often: ".. the GNU General Public License is intended to guarantee your freedom to share and change free software." 3.5 Free software like the wikimedia installer package perhaps? 4. Wiki is a noun, and not a proper one at that. It describes an open source encyclopedia. How can a definition be protected by copyright law, esp. as it is part of the domain of public knowledge? 5.As for cookie cutter looks, if you would have cared to register, you obviously would have noticed there are several interesting themes to choose from. 6. As for blah content, excerise your freedom of expression and turn it to action.
Ferrer Bring Out Your Ships	Posted - 2005.11.29 17:28:00 - [34] Edited by: Ferrer on 29/11/2005 17:45:48 Such grandstanding never deserves to be on the forums. The wiki has a feedback mechanism built into it. Derovius Vaden, if you have a legitimate greivance/criticism/concern feel free to add it to the discussion page of the user Ferrer or email it to root@thewalledcity and we'll continue this discussion there.
Qalten	Posted - 2005.11.29 18:13:00 - [35] Originally by: Derovius Vaden They cannot come up with their own gimick, so they steal that of a populat online encyclopaedia, using not only its name, its general web-design, and purpose statement, but they've shown little or no attempt to deviate from this. Thusly, they are stealing intellectual property from Wikimedia, which I'm more than certain has been copyrighted, trademarked, or likewise claimed. Even open-source projects still hold rights, just so no one else can claim them and make money off it. Ouch. It always hurts when people think they know what they're talking about, and yet completely have absolutely no idea about the subject matter whatsoever. It's always painful to watch. I suggest you go actually find out what the Wiki project is before saying another word, bub. EVE Diplomacy Table
Qalten Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2005.11.29 18:13:00 - [36] Originally by: Derovius Vaden They cannot come up with their own gimick, so they steal that of a populat online encyclopaedia, using not only its name, its general web-design, and purpose statement, but they've shown little or no attempt to deviate from this. Thusly, they are stealing intellectual property from Wikimedia, which I'm more than certain has been copyrighted, trademarked, or likewise claimed. Even open-source projects still hold rights, just so no one else can claim them and make money off it. Ouch. It always hurts when people think they know what they're talking about, and yet completely have absolutely no idea about the subject matter whatsoever. It's always painful to watch. I suggest you go actually find out what the Wiki project is before saying another word, bub. ~
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2005.11.29 18:16:00 - [37] Originally by: Qalten Originally by: Derovius Vaden They cannot come up with their own gimick, so they steal that of a populat online encyclopaedia, using not only its name, its general web-design, and purpose statement, but they've shown little or no attempt to deviate from this. Thusly, they are stealing intellectual property from Wikimedia, which I'm more than certain has been copyrighted, trademarked, or likewise claimed. Even open-source projects still hold rights, just so no one else can claim them and make money off it. Ouch. It always hurts when people think they know what they're talking about, and yet completely have absolutely no idea about the subject matter whatsoever. It's always painful to watch. I suggest you go actually find out what the Wiki project is before saying another word, bub. When I checked the site, they had no licensing evident on the first page, thusly I assumed they mimicked it from the other wiki-media sites. Regardless of where they got their material, they are still uninventive; there is more information on EVE at wikipedia than at this "eveWIKI" site. The more places information are stored, the greater the error in said information, its that simple.
Derovius Vaden Caldari Doomheim	Posted - 2005.11.29 18:16:00 - [38] Originally by: Qalten Originally by: Derovius Vaden They cannot come up with their own gimick, so they steal that of a populat online encyclopaedia, using not only its name, its general web-design, and purpose statement, but they've shown little or no attempt to deviate from this. Thusly, they are stealing intellectual property from Wikimedia, which I'm more than certain has been copyrighted, trademarked, or likewise claimed. Even open-source projects still hold rights, just so no one else can claim them and make money off it. Ouch. It always hurts when people think they know what they're talking about, and yet completely have absolutely no idea about the subject matter whatsoever. It's always painful to watch. I suggest you go actually find out what the Wiki project is before saying another word, bub. When I checked the site, they had no licensing evident on the first page, thusly I assumed they mimicked it from the other wiki-media sites. Regardless of where they got their material, they are still uninventive; there is more information on EVE at wikipedia than at this "eveWIKI" site. The more places information are stored, the greater the error in said information, its that simple.
Qalten	Posted - 2005.11.29 18:19:00 - [39] Edited by: Qalten on 29/11/2005 18:19:13 Originally by: Derovius Vaden When I checked the site, they had no licensing evident on the first page, thusly I assumed they mimicked it from the other wiki-media sites. Regardless of where they got their material, they are still uninventive; there is more information on EVE at wikipedia than at this "eveWIKI" site. The more places information are stored, the greater the error in said information, its that simple. So you admit you assumed and overreacted. Good, that's out of the way. Now, wikis don't just spring up chock full of information. The idea here is to have a more focused encyclopedia dedicated to EVE. However, it will take some effort and contributions from the community before it can truly fulfill its potential. Perhaps instead of naysaying it, you can contribute? EVE Diplomacy Table
Qalten Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2005.11.29 18:19:00 - [40] Edited by: Qalten on 29/11/2005 18:19:13 Originally by: Derovius Vaden When I checked the site, they had no licensing evident on the first page, thusly I assumed they mimicked it from the other wiki-media sites. Regardless of where they got their material, they are still uninventive; there is more information on EVE at wikipedia than at this "eveWIKI" site. The more places information are stored, the greater the error in said information, its that simple. So you admit you assumed and overreacted. Good, that's out of the way. Now, wikis don't just spring up chock full of information. The idea here is to have a more focused encyclopedia dedicated to EVE. However, it will take some effort and contributions from the community before it can truly fulfill its potential. Perhaps instead of naysaying it, you can contribute? ~

Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2005.11.29 18:26:00 - [41] Originally by: Qalten Edited by: Qalten on 29/11/2005 18:19:13 Originally by: Derovius Vaden When I checked the site, they had no licensing evident on the first page, thusly I assumed they mimicked it from the other wiki-media sites. Regardless of where they got their material, they are still uninventive; there is more information on EVE at wikipedia than at this "eveWIKI" site. The more places information are stored, the greater the error in said information, its that simple. So you admit you assumed and overreacted. Good, that's out of the way. Now, wikis don't just spring up chock full of information. The idea here is to have a more focused encyclopedia dedicated to EVE. However, it will take some effort and contributions from the community before it can truly fulfill its potential. Perhaps instead of naysaying it, you can contribute? I don't overreact, I point the flaws I see at the time, its other peoples task to either prove or disprove me. Aside from that, I'm not going to waste my time on a dead project, if someone else wants to wallow in informational chaos trying to give EVE's information a filing system, all the power to them, but its futile. EVE Zone > EVEWiki, and thats how its always going to be; numbers speak volumes.
Derovius Vaden Caldari Doomheim	Posted - 2005.11.29 18:26:00 - [42] Originally by: Qalten Edited by: Qalten on 29/11/2005 18:19:13 Originally by: Derovius Vaden When I checked the site, they had no licensing evident on the first page, thusly I assumed they mimicked it from the other wiki-media sites. Regardless of where they got their material, they are still uninventive; there is more information on EVE at wikipedia than at this "eveWIKI" site. The more places information are stored, the greater the error in said information, its that simple. So you admit you assumed and overreacted. Good, that's out of the way. Now, wikis don't just spring up chock full of information. The idea here is to have a more focused encyclopedia dedicated to EVE. However, it will take some effort and contributions from the community before it can truly fulfill its potential. Perhaps instead of naysaying it, you can contribute? I don't overreact, I point the flaws I see at the time, its other peoples task to either prove or disprove me. Aside from that, I'm not going to waste my time on a dead project, if someone else wants to wallow in informational chaos trying to give EVE's information a filing system, all the power to them, but its futile. EVE Zone > EVEWiki, and thats how its always going to be; numbers speak volumes.
Winterblink	Posted - 2005.11.29 18:49:00 - [43] Originally by: Derovius Vaden EVE Zone > EVEWiki, and thats how its always going to be; numbers speak volumes. The two serve different purposes. winterblink warp drive active.http://winterblink.com/wda nature vraie.http://winterblink.com/env
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2005.11.29 18:49:00 - [44] Originally by: Derovius Vaden EVE Zone > EVEWiki, and thats how its always going to be; numbers speak volumes. The two serve different purposes. warp drive active \| nature vraie
Kaell Meynn	Posted - 2005.11.29 20:17:00 - [45] Heh, translation of someones post... "I just talk out of my ass with no idea if what I'm saying has any merit or is total crap. It's up to others to determine for me if I should have thought about what I was saying before spouting complete falsehoods, or if what I said made sense, I'm not going to waste my time with facts or truth, it's not my job." ... nice. Sorry for derailment Ferrer, again, I hope the project goes well.
Kaell Meynn Divergence	Posted - 2005.11.29 20:17:00 - [46] Heh, translation of someones post... "I just talk out of my ass with no idea if what I'm saying has any merit or is total crap. It's up to others to determine for me if I should have thought about what I was saying before spouting complete falsehoods, or if what I said made sense, I'm not going to waste my time with facts or truth, it's not my job." ... nice. Sorry for derailment Ferrer, again, I hope the project goes well.
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.11.29 21:14:00 - [47] "When I checked the site, they had no licensing evident on the first page, thusly I assumed they mimicked it from the other wiki-media sites." It had (and still has) the "Powered by MediaWiki" button which links to original MediaWiki page. That button is part of the default skin and is included at every single page, really can't see how you managed to miss it...
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2005.11.29 21:14:00 - [48] "When I checked the site, they had no licensing evident on the first page, thusly I assumed they mimicked it from the other wiki-media sites." It had (and still has) the "Powered by MediaWiki" button which links to original MediaWiki page. That button is part of the default skin and is included at every single page, really can't see how you managed to miss it...
Seraphin DeAngeluotti	Posted - 2005.11.30 18:46:00 - [49] My families name came up here so I will give a short overview about the eve-wiki history up to now: http://eve.wikicities.com/wiki/Main_Page FreakBoy is the original creator of the Eve Wiki, which started as the "Alliance Wiki". Tavernier hosted it till 10/2005. Both players quit EvE (afaik) and subsequently the wiki had to be hosted somewhere else. Last time it even totally disappeared from one day to the other so I had to go and hunt for the data. I choose wikicities as the new home since they host a lot of wikis already. And since they don't play eve the chance of them quitting and taking the wiki offline is not that great (yeah, they could go bankrupt or something but hey, no risk no fun). And yes, they have ads but they need to live somehow, too... So if Ferrer can make a commitment that he will be around like forever ;) I think it would not be good to split the few editors there are across several wikis though.... --------------------------- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Seraphin DeAngeluotti Gallente Doomheim	Posted - 2005.11.30 18:46:00 - [50] My families name came up here so I will give a short overview about the eve-wiki history up to now: http://eve.wikicities.com/wiki/Main_Page FreakBoy is the original creator of the Eve Wiki, which started as the "Alliance Wiki". Tavernier hosted it till 10/2005. Both players quit EvE (afaik) and subsequently the wiki had to be hosted somewhere else. Last time it even totally disappeared from one day to the other so I had to go and hunt for the data. I choose wikicities as the new home since they host a lot of wikis already. And since they don't play eve the chance of them quitting and taking the wiki offline is not that great (yeah, they could go bankrupt or something but hey, no risk no fun). And yes, they have ads but they need to live somehow, too... So if Ferrer can make a commitment that he will be around like forever ;) I think it would not be good to split the few editors there are across several wikis though.... --------------------------- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]

Ferrer	Posted - 2005.12.03 06:19:00 - [51] Thanks Seraphin and Luance for the comments, mebbe I should give you a little background then on why I am doing this. Originally by: Seraphin DeAngeluotti 1. And yes, they have ads but they need to live somehow, too... 2.So if Ferrer can make a commitment that he will be around like forever ;) 3.I think it would not be good to split the few editors there are across several wikis though.... In the beginning... I was naive and thinking that by creating a wiki I was doing something both new and helpful for the EVE community. Finding out that there were already established wikis on the subject has not been as bad news as one might expect. Indeed, it has given me direction and fodder for things to do and improve upon. 2. The first and most important (to me) thing I decided to improve upon was to never host the EVEwiki@eve-extra through ad-support. The site is currently hosted add free courtesy of PreTender @ eve-extra.com (thanks a lot!). I think the liklihood of such an established fan site closing shop is not likely, but as EVE-I has shown, it is entirely possible. Regular database dumps are made in case EVE-extra meets with catastrophe. The database dumps can then be imported into any existing wiki framework. With an active community of technologically savvy members, I don't think finding a new host will be a problem. 1.The reason why I refused to support the site through ads was twofold. One, eve-sellers ruin the game's mechanics by allowing non-game assets to be exchanged for ingame ones. Two, advertising isk sellers in association with eve is against the EULA (I know CCP doesn't really prosecute this, but it's because the can't due to staffing-not because they don't want to). 3. I agree and think that the editor community of EVE should not be split. But on what site do we unite? We two wikis are not the only biz in town. I think that the site at the eve-extra address has the best chances of incorporating the features of all the wikis out there and cosolidating them into one. For example, export functions and additional wiki framework will be installed at the eve-extra wiki for IGB functionality. Grismar's wiki is aimed at the IGB functionality and I think losses a lot of it's power because of it. The wiki at eve-extra will focus both on IGB and out of game browser functionality. The wiki at wiki cities is ad-supported and the sysops do not have complete control over their database and html files. This limits customization options to a certain extent, but more seriously hampers functionality beyond your basic wiki setup. I admit, migrating to a new wiki when older ones with more content exist seems fairly ridiculous, but I hope you can see that the growth and impact of the older wikis are limited by their inherent characteristics. Characteristics that the wiki at eve-extra has the ability to overcome and soon will have the means. That turned out longer than expected. Sorry for those of you that made it all the way through. Any constructive comments are always welcome! --Ferrer
Ferrer Bring Out Your Ships	Posted - 2005.12.03 06:19:00 - [52] Thanks Seraphin and Luance for the comments, mebbe I should give you a little background then on why I am doing this. Originally by: Seraphin DeAngeluotti 1. And yes, they have ads but they need to live somehow, too... 2.So if Ferrer can make a commitment that he will be around like forever ;) 3.I think it would not be good to split the few editors there are across several wikis though.... In the beginning... I was naive and thinking that by creating a wiki I was doing something both new and helpful for the EVE community. Finding out that there were already established wikis on the subject has not been as bad news as one might expect. Indeed, it has given me direction and fodder for things to do and improve upon. 2. The first and most important (to me) thing I decided to improve upon was to never host the EVEwiki@eve-extra through ad-support. The site is currently hosted add free courtesy of PreTender @ eve-extra.com (thanks a lot!). I think the liklihood of such an established fan site closing shop is not likely, but as EVE-I has shown, it is entirely possible. Regular database dumps are made in case EVE-extra meets with catastrophe. The database dumps can then be imported into any existing wiki framework. With an active community of technologically savvy members, I don't think finding a new host will be a problem. 1.The reason why I refused to support the site through ads was twofold. One, eve-sellers ruin the game's mechanics by allowing non-game assets to be exchanged for ingame ones. Two, advertising isk sellers in association with eve is against the EULA (I know CCP doesn't really prosecute this, but it's because the can't due to staffing-not because they don't want to). 3. I agree and think that the editor community of EVE should not be split. But on what site do we unite? We two wikis are not the only biz in town. I think that the site at the eve-extra address has the best chances of incorporating the features of all the wikis out there and cosolidating them into one. For example, export functions and additional wiki framework will be installed at the eve-extra wiki for IGB functionality. Grismar's wiki is aimed at the IGB functionality and I think losses a lot of it's power because of it. The wiki at eve-extra will focus both on IGB and out of game browser functionality. The wiki at wiki cities is ad-supported and the sysops do not have complete control over their database and html files. This limits customization options to a certain extent, but more seriously hampers functionality beyond your basic wiki setup. I admit, migrating to a new wiki when older ones with more content exist seems fairly ridiculous, but I hope you can see that the growth and impact of the older wikis are limited by their inherent characteristics. Characteristics that the wiki at eve-extra has the ability to overcome and soon will have the means. That turned out longer than expected. Sorry for those of you that made it all the way through. Any constructive comments are always welcome! --Ferrer
Seraphin DeAngeluotti	Posted - 2005.12.04 03:16:00 - [53] Edited by: Seraphin DeAngeluotti on 04/12/2005 03:16:28 Originally by: Ferrer I admit, migrating to a new wiki when older ones with more content exist seems fairly ridiculous, but I hope you can see that the growth and impact of the older wikis are limited by their inherent characteristics. Characteristics that the wiki at eve-extra has the ability to overcome and soon will have the means. Well if you are that dedicated why don't you give me an e-mail address where I can send you the dump of the data I received to. In the wikicities not many changes were made so if you import the dump into your wiki you can go be the next torchholder :) And I would appreciate regular dumps back so if you or the wiki should vanish once again I can take the torch back... --------------------------- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Seraphin DeAngeluotti Gallente Doomheim	Posted - 2005.12.04 03:16:00 - [54] Edited by: Seraphin DeAngeluotti on 04/12/2005 03:16:28 Originally by: Ferrer I admit, migrating to a new wiki when older ones with more content exist seems fairly ridiculous, but I hope you can see that the growth and impact of the older wikis are limited by their inherent characteristics. Characteristics that the wiki at eve-extra has the ability to overcome and soon will have the means. Well if you are that dedicated why don't you give me an e-mail address where I can send you the dump of the data I received to. In the wikicities not many changes were made so if you import the dump into your wiki you can go be the next torchholder :) And I would appreciate regular dumps back so if you or the wiki should vanish once again I can take the torch back... --------------------------- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Skyscorcher	Posted - 2005.12.04 05:53:00 - [55] Quote: Any user can modify content without registration. Add your bio, your corp, you neat EVE spreadsheet, whatever! Get recognized and help other people while doing it. That is just asking for trouble. ______________________________ PLAY LIKE YA GOT A PAIR!
Skyscorcher Vale Heavy Industries SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2005.12.04 05:53:00 - [56] Quote: Any user can modify content without registration. Add your bio, your corp, you neat EVE spreadsheet, whatever! Get recognized and help other people while doing it. That is just asking for trouble. ______________________________ PLAY LIKE YA GOT A PAIR!
Ferrer	Posted - 2005.12.06 16:14:00 - [57] Originally by: Skyscorcher Quote: Any user can modify content without registration. Add your bio, your corp, you neat EVE spreadsheet, whatever! Get recognized and help other people while doing it. That is just asking for trouble. Although it might be asking for trouble, it is also very encouraging of open participation. The wiki has built in page histories, so if any malicious changes were made a sysop or beaurocrat would be able to revert them easily. I can also change the rights of unregistered users if it becomes a problem.
Ferrer Bring Out Your Ships	Posted - 2005.12.06 16:14:00 - [58] Originally by: Skyscorcher Quote: Any user can modify content without registration. Add your bio, your corp, you neat EVE spreadsheet, whatever! Get recognized and help other people while doing it. That is just asking for trouble. Although it might be asking for trouble, it is also very encouraging of open participation. The wiki has built in page histories, so if any malicious changes were made a sysop or beaurocrat would be able to revert them easily. I can also change the rights of unregistered users if it becomes a problem.
Ferrer	Posted - 2005.12.06 17:17:00 - [59] Originally by: Seraphin DeAngeluotti Edited by: Seraphin DeAngeluotti on 04/12/2005 03:16:28 Originally by: Ferrer I admit, migrating to a new wiki when older ones with more content exist seems fairly ridiculous, but I hope you can see that the growth and impact of the older wikis are limited by their inherent characteristics. Characteristics that the wiki at eve-extra has the ability to overcome and soon will have the means. Well if you are that dedicated why don't you give me an e-mail address where I can send you the dump of the data I received to. In the wikicities not many changes were made so if you import the dump into your wiki you can go be the next torchholder :) And I would appreciate regular dumps back so if you or the wiki should vanish once again I can take the torch back... Sounds good Seraphin, I've sent you and Luance an evemail with an email contact of mine.
Ferrer Bring Out Your Ships	Posted - 2005.12.06 17:17:00 - [60] Originally by: Seraphin DeAngeluotti Edited by: Seraphin DeAngeluotti on 04/12/2005 03:16:28 Originally by: Ferrer I admit, migrating to a new wiki when older ones with more content exist seems fairly ridiculous, but I hope you can see that the growth and impact of the older wikis are limited by their inherent characteristics. Characteristics that the wiki at eve-extra has the ability to overcome and soon will have the means. Well if you are that dedicated why don't you give me an e-mail address where I can send you the dump of the data I received to. In the wikicities not many changes were made so if you import the dump into your wiki you can go be the next torchholder :) And I would appreciate regular dumps back so if you or the wiki should vanish once again I can take the torch back... Sounds good Seraphin, I've sent you and Luance an evemail with an email contact of mine.



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